The Case In Favor of Flowrestling

[dsites52]

Now, I must preface this by saying this was my first live Flocast since Dean beat Ed at the Schuffle. So, it's been a few years.
I remember back when Cael first came to Happy Valley and it got me super-jacked for Penn State wrestling. I was desperate to consume as much content back then and guess what? There wasn't a whole lot. But low and behold, there's this little site called flowrestling with a couple of Missouri boys running around and shoving flip video cameras in wrestlers and coaches faces asking them questions. Part of me misses the days when Bader and Joe Flo would be sitting on the edge of the match after session 1 wrapped recapping what had just happened.

A lot has changed since then, Penn State is now dominate nationally, wrestling and coverage of wrestling has expanded and Flo has grown along with the sport. Yesterday wasn't a banner day for them. While we can say almost definitely that network coverage on the dual would not have gone as poorly, if not for Flowrestling, would NBC have any interest in the dual? However, the sport of wrestling and we as fans of wrestling are far better for Flo's existence.

 

[tikk10]

Now, I must preface this by saying this was my first live Flocast since Dean beat Ed at the Schuffle. So, it's been a few years.
I remember back when Cael first came to Happy Valley and it got me super-jacked for Penn State wrestling. I was desperate to consume as much content back then and guess what? There wasn't a whole lot. But low and behold, there's this little site called flowrestling with a couple of Missouri boys running around and shoving flip video cameras in wrestlers and coaches faces asking them questions. Part of me misses the days when Bader and Joe Flo would be sitting on the edge of the match after session 1 wrapped recapping what had just happened.

A lot has changed since then, Penn State is now dominate nationally, wrestling and coverage of wrestling has expanded and Flo has grown along with the sport. Yesterday wasn't a banner day for them. While we can say almost definitely that network coverage on the dual would not have gone as poorly, if not for Flowrestling, would NBC have any interest in the dual? However, the sport of wrestling and we as fans of wrestling are far better for Flo's existence.

Yes, NBC had interest in the dual, evidenced by their entering into a deal with OSU and NWCA to air it live, only to have Flo sue NBC et al based on their regular season dual contract with OSU, after which OSU caved.

 

[psu_flip]

Flo is great for technique videos and for a good amount of live streaming. It's a great coaching aide as many of us didn't have the benefit of the internet when we wrestled. It's great for the big high school tournaments, WNO, and Dapper Dan. We've basically seen Mark Hall grow up on Flo. The documentaries are awesome. I had it crap out on me during the Dean/Ruth match a few years ago. Yesterday was a colossal fail, but not enough for a boycott for me. At least not now.

I've learned to always have the Byers feed on for big matches that are streamed online. If you can sync up the broadcast to Byers, that's the way to go.

 

[dsites52]

Yes, NBC had interest in the dual, evidenced by their entering into a deal with OSU and NWCA to air it live, only to have Flo sue NBC et al based on their regular season dual contract with OSU, after which OSU caved.

But would NBC have had interest even 3 years ago? It's hard to say. But the evidence is there that Flo increased wrestlings exposure

 

[wcicci]

But would NBC have had interest even 3 years ago? It's hard to say. But the evidence is there that Flo increased wrestlings exposure

Flow was early on wrestling coverage, same for sports like track and volleyball. They are good for the sports. They had a contract w/OSU and should be rewarded/protected for making a good bet/investment. Unfortunately, they had delivery issues, which is a tough lesson. Smart decision would have been to cut a deal with NBC.

 

[WildTurk]

I figured you guys would have a thread like this soon. You dont want to run your best recruiter out of town. He wasn't getting a whole lot of love yesterday thats forsure.

 

[nagromth]

As long as they learn from this experience, they will grow. If hey repeat the mistake the next time, they are dust.

Did anyone find out how many tried to sign up? I tried signing up yesterday morning and the hour glass was spinning for 10 minutes. If they can't take my money promptly, how are they going to do with the broadcast?

It would be interesting to see how they respond for the tourney's - B1G and NCAA's? They could redeem themselves.

 

[jlg8875]

I was as disappointed as anyone yesterday but you have got to respect the apology.

Wrestling Community,

Yesterday's outage was completely unacceptable. I want to personally reach out to you to accept responsibility. We let you down. This was an important event for you and for us. It is hard to put into words how disappointing this was.

Here is what we are doing about it:

• The match archives and full match replay are available for free. Watch them here.
• If you signed up to watch the dual please email support@flosports.tv to be fully refunded. If you would like to keep your subscription, email support@flosports.tv and indicate you'd like to be credited for two free months. We will respond as quickly as possible.
• We are investigating the full cause of the outage and will immediately take the necessary steps to prevent this issue from happening again.

Sorry we let you down. If you would like to reach out to me personally, please email me at MartinFlo@FloSports.tv

Sincerely,

Martin Floreani
CEO & Co-Founder, FloSports

 

[El-Jefe]

IMO this is the key point:

• We are investigating the full cause of the outage and will immediately take the necessary steps to prevent this issue from happening again.

Mistakes happen. Repeat mistakes shouldn't. Flo would be well advised to be transparent about what these steps entail. It's great to say "we'll take necessary steps" but they now have to build confidence among its customers.

 

[liex26]

1. This has happened before. It will happen again. There will be another thread like this, history has and will repeat.
2. You covered very few of Flow's issues. Failing to cancel charges after cancellation, mocking wrestling fans for questioning the cost of their services, being hypocritical and complaining about NBC and BTN coverages, charging some users more than others for the same content.
3. If they continue down this test/beta without the know-how or preparation to handle large events, why should we pay for finished product when they can't deliver?
4. You guys caving so easily makes this really easy for them, and worse for those of us that expect more.
5. Most of all for me is the silence. That pathetic apology. They spend so much more energy boasting, and then nothing. No personal responsibility, and judging by their site, they still, today, have no idea what failed.

 

[tikk10]

Mistakes happen. Repeat mistakes shouldn't. Flo would be well advised to be transparent about what these steps entail. It's great to say "we'll take necessary steps" but they now have to build confidence among its customers.

Yeah. When each mistake looks a lot like the previous mistake, foreseeability becomes a given. The consumer distrust is compounded by the smugness: even after their skeletal operation and amateurism repeatedly blows up in their face they continue to pretend they're the only ones doing it right, and don't hesitate to loudly dump on wrestling media competitors. The apology is new though but not holding my breath that it signals structural change.

 

[dsites52]

1. This has happened before. It will happen again. There will be another thread like this, history has and will repeat.
2. You covered very few of Flow's issues. Failing to cancel charges after cancellation, mocking wrestling fans for questioning the cost of their services, being hypocritical and complaining about NBC and BTN coverages, charging some users more than others for the same content.
3. If they continue down this test/beta without the know-how or preparation to handle large events, why should we pay for finished product when they can't deliver?
4. You guys caving so easily makes this really easy for them, and worse for those of us that expect more.
5. Most of all for me is the silence. That pathetic apology. They spend so much more energy boasting, and then nothing. No personal responsibility, and judging by their site, they still, today, have no idea what failed.

Nobody is under Flo's thumb. Indeed they can be smug, but at no point are you forced to consume Flo. And if you paid to see the dual, they're gonna give you your money back. You have rights as a consumer and that is to not consume their product. I remember when wrestling coverage was a desolate wasteland. I firmly believe that it is in large part due to Flo's efforts that NBC would even try to get a piece of the action. I paid $20 specifically to watch this, and I only got to watch three fourths of it that wasn't on a Facebook live stream. They took a devastatingly severe blow yesterday and they are being called to the carpet accordingly. I guarantee that if Flo goes away tomorrow there will be less access to the sport we all love.

 

[1Hammers1]

How do you know we are going to get a refund ? I requested mine 24 hours ago. Haven't gotten a reply from flo. I am probably already disqualified because I canceled my subscription. Signed up 2 days before the match is probably another disqualification. l I will be very happy if they don't bill me again in March April and June.

 

[dsites52]

How do you know we are going to get a refund ? I requested mine 24 hours ago. Haven't gotten a reply from flo. I am probably already disqualified because I canceled my subscription. Signed up 2 days before the match is probably another disqualification. l I will be very happy if they don't bill me again in March April and June.

I know because Martin Floreani said they will. I will take it on faith that they do. You have no idea how many inquiries they have to process and what kind of staffing they can dedicate to processing them. I can't imagine they have a huge customer service team prepared to issue the mass amount of refunds that are sure to be requested. If they don't give out refunds, then that's another conversation.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Response from the email per directions in the open letter: "Thanks for contacting FloSports! Your request (#181993) has been received and our Customer Support team will be reaching out as soon as possible. We respond to every ticket that we receive.

Here is our FAQ page if you have yet to check it out.

Thank you for your patience."

 

[johnstownsteel]

I know because Martin Floreani said they will. I will take it on faith that they do. You have no idea how many inquiries they have to process and what kind of staffing they can dedicate to processing them. I can't imagine they have a huge customer service team prepared to issue the mass amount of refunds that are sure to be requested. If they don't give out refunds, then that's another conversation.

I'd suggest they use the extra money they got by raising their monthly fee to hire more people to handle these issues.

Oh wait... all those who had to pay the jacked up rate are the ones getting the refund aren't they?

 

[purescurve]

the cost of getting the extra bandwidth is something I would be interested in finding out. say for 50,000 subscribers. that is the problem right? like sands through an hourglass

 

[Afw6006]

1. This has happened before. It will happen again. There will be another thread like this, history has and will repeat.
2. You covered very few of Flow's issues. Failing to cancel charges after cancellation, mocking wrestling fans for questioning the cost of their services, being hypocritical and complaining about NBC and BTN coverages, charging some users more than others for the same content.
3. If they continue down this test/beta without the know-how or preparation to handle large events, why should we pay for finished product when they can't deliver?
4. You guys caving so easily makes this really easy for them, and worse for those of us that expect more.
5. Most of all for me is the silence. That pathetic apology. They spend so much more energy boasting, and then nothing. No personal responsibility, and judging by their site, they still, today, have no idea what failed.

I share the same sentiment for the most part. I just can't understand how the foundation of their service, live streaming, is what they consistently fail at. It's not often a monumental fail like yesterday when they blow the whole coverage but it's sad when we have been trained to question simple things like, "will they start the stream on time or will we miss part of the first match?", "will the coverage cut out at some point"? After all of these years of getting bigger and better in many ways, why is their streaming unreliable just like it was in year 1? Is streaming technology just still that far off from being able to deliver consistently or have they chosen to not invest in that area?

Despite these frusterations I'll keep my subscription to Flo. When they are able to deliver, they are excellent. For me it's knowing (or hoping) that they could be so much better than what they already are but it's almost like they chose to ignore their mistakes because they essentially have a monopoly in what they do for wrestling and can do what they want. The statement by Martin is the only time I recall seeing them take public ownership of their mistakes to that degree

 

[Ranger Dan]

Teams with national brands like Ok St. should not sign exclusive contracts to broadcast via live stream as the exclusive medium. There should be a clause/structure stating that national tv gets first dibs, then cable TV, then, finally, internet streaming like Flo. In football, they call it tier 1, tier 2, etc. and there are obviously a great deal more TV options for football. Selling national duel rights to Flo may have been an unintentional loophole, but you would think that someone at Ok St would have had more foresight than this when reviewing the contract.

 

[1Hammers1]

I know because Martin Floreani said they will. I will take it on faith that they do. You have no idea how many inquiries they have to process and what kind of staffing they can dedicate to processing them. I can't imagine they have a huge customer service team prepared to issue the mass amount of refunds that are sure to be requested. If they don't give out refunds, then that's another conversation.

You must know Martin better than I do. It's been a full week. No reply on the refund. Do I need to beg for a refund that was offered. I was ready to sign up to the watch the scuffle again this year. Everyone was complaining. I said never mind, flo provided it last year and was happy. I really blew it signing up for the national duals. 20 bucks is nothing. Enjoy it Martin. Could have made 100x over the years if you were an honest company.