The day after

[dunkej01]

I feel like the dudes in the hangover right now.

I'd like to think I'm the Bradley cooper character though......

The good:
Nobody from tHR came over to gloat. Which is better than we would have been in reversed roles.
Cenzo, hall, raptor, NLee looked the part of champions
Brody battled. Dont mind losing but you got to battle. Good things happen to those who battle
We got options at every weight we think there are problems
We got Cael and staff, the field doesn't

The bad
Injuries happen but they still suck
Cross country flights are trouble for wrestlers
Home mat advantage

The ugly
tO$U
The ShOoooooooe
The name brutus
Scarlet as a color choice
The drive from pa to OH on I80
Bucknuts

In closing for those in panic mode......Dont forget....theres a freaking tiger in the bathroom (and his name may just be beard)

 

[jrd23psu]

The streak was nice but it’s not like this program was never going to lose a dual again. This was coming at some point. A new streak can start at the next dual if people are concerned about streaks.

Teske looked more like the kid I saw in HS than he has since he got to PSU despite the loss. He was battling like El Jefe said. I think we all knew he was going to need time to improve at this level. A RS year doesn’t always do it.

We definitely have hammers again this year. Nick Lee looks different. He looks stronger and more crisp. Cenzo looked great against a fantastic wrestler. Mark Hall looks like a finalist and was determined to major a good wrestler. His haters complain about his offense but I saw nothing to complain about last night.

Anthony showed once again why he’s a defending national champ. He had a real shot to stick the #5 guy for the dual win.

It’s early. Im not concerned that Cael will have this team peaking in March like he does every single year.

 

[Lyons212]

sun came up.

Although not a good feeling going into the showdown at noon.

 

[slushhead]

Now that the faux fans of wrestling and the degenerates that speak up only when they want to criticize the team for not meeting their personal expectations have (predictably) cleared out, I'd like to say that the dual last night, although a tough pill for some fans to swallow, was a great night of exciting, suspenseful wrestling. Congrats to ASU for bringing it. Applause to the two head coaches and AD's for making the home-and-home series happen. It was a successful endeavor.

Last night was a good one for the sport. The buzz is now officially in high gear, as there is blood in the water. This can only generate more interest from hardcore fans, casual fans, and new fans alike.

Let the frenzy begin, and let's hope our guys get healthy and have the opportunity to bring their A-game when all the chips are on the table.

 

[pish69]

Now that the faux fans of wrestling and the degenerates that speak up only when they want to criticize the team for not meeting their personal expectations have (predictably) cleared out,.

What’s amazing to me is the amount of wrestling media, other coaches, etc on social media are taking such joy of this meaningless loss in November as if they don’t want be honest with themselves.

it’s like the Okie State loss last week. Yeah Lehigh won, congrats. But any knowledgeable fan knows OSU had 2 of their best wrestlers out and another starter failed a skin test.

Some of these “expert media” people that are gloating and other coaches that question Cael should get a grip on themselves.

1. Don’t cry when Cael don’t give you access to team when you act like this
2. To the coaches critiquing things..unless you accomplish 1/100th of what this staff has, please keep your opinions to yourself on Twitter

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

"You know you've made it when you're hated". Enjoy the ride fellas.

 

[slushhead]

What’s amazing to me is the amount of wrestling media, other coaches, etc on social media are taking such joy of this meaningless loss in November as if they don’t want be honest with themselves.

it’s like the Okie State loss last week. Yeah Lehigh won, congrats. But any knowledgeable fan knows OSU had 2 of their best wrestlers out and another starter failed a skin test.

Some of these “expert media” people that are gloating and other coaches that question Cael should get a grip on themselves.

1. Don’t cry when Cael don’t give you access to team when you act like this
2. To the coaches critiquing things..unless you accomplish 1/100th of what this staff has, please keep your opinions to yourself on Twitter

Let them talk, tweet, or whatever. Correct them when they get the facts wrong.

Otherwise, I say embrace being a target, and embrace the attention. This program has a solid track record, and we know this.

 

[SJP80]

Good … that really was an entertaining dual. Good to watch. Of most of the top 10 coaches, Zeke seems better to lose to than most.

All in all, I’d rather lose now than to Iowa in a few months. Cael will adjust and we will be fine by March.

Bad .... Verk or Teske needed to take a step forward. injuries are a thing, so Pipher and the FFT will happen, But 125 and 149 need to be sorted out

Ugly … Conel. Just not good enough like we all knew in the back of our minds.

 

[District four]

Let them talk, tweet, or whatever. Correct them when they get the facts wrong.

Otherwise, I say embrace being a target, and embrace the attention. This program has a solid track record, and we know this.

Yep. We're fine I felt conflicted but this isn't the team we will have in March. We're golden especially with our staff

 

[baccafarmer]

Found some wrestling nuts down in Hotlanta last night and we all listened to Ironhead over beers. They wanted to know why I wasn’t more upset after Antknee’s tough effort to pull it out. I offered that the match was good for college wrestling and excellent for a coach (Zeke) who has been “building a program”. I also voiced the raw fact that we have Cael, Casey, & Company. Panic is for losers! Cael knows what to do and he has shown his coaching skills so many times that we should all give thanks and sit back to watch the grand plan unfold.

 

[PSU Mike]

I felt for the ASU fans that didn’t get to see their best wrestler in his senior season against a tough team. I guess stuff just happens sometimes.

 

[NittanyChris]

Agree, with most of what was said in this thread.
One more thing, one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night by ZERO percent.
It's all about March. Get healthy, work out the weight cutting issues, and peak at the right time, as we always do, and it will be 9 of 10 this year.
WE ARE!!!

 

[tikk10]

What’s amazing to me is the amount of wrestling media, other coaches, etc on social media are taking such joy of this meaningless loss in November as if they don’t want be honest with themselves.

it’s like the Okie State loss last week. Yeah Lehigh won, congrats. But any knowledgeable fan knows OSU had 2 of their best wrestlers out and another starter failed a skin test.

Some of these “expert media” people that are gloating and other coaches that question Cael should get a grip on themselves.

1. Don’t cry when Cael don’t give you access to team when you act like this
2. To the coaches critiquing things..unless you accomplish 1/100th of what this staff has, please keep your opinions to yourself on Twitter

I just view the glee from fans and media as validation of where the program is at. It's not malice, it's just the flip side of what, say, a Dolphins fan like myself feels when the Patriots occasionally lose in the Super Bowl. It's what makes sports great.

And yeah, in all likelihood last night's lineup isn't going to be the lineup that goes to NCAAs, but it's not as if the match needs as asterisk. Teams forfeit matches and they pay the price if it goes south. We lost, the streak is over, and that's okay. Our loss was the sport's gain, for one night.

 

[nittinsc]

Ten years ago some folks at ASU thought it was a good idea to cut wrestling. I'm fine with the streak ending at ASU. Good for college wrestling. Maybe the rest of the PAC 12 should think about getting back on board.

Anyone else think it was serendipitous that the PSU Alumni Assoc sent an email yesterday with "A Message from Recovery Centers of America"

 

[RoarLions1]

Interesting thoughts. Perspective helps. Maybe my age or how I’m wired helps ... last night was a tremendous learning experience. Yep, I want us to win, for sure, but any disappointment was replaced with the knowledge that Cael and co. will use this, maybe more than a win, he help this team get ready for the post-season. Oh, and injuries stink.

 

[SJP80]

Agree, with most of what was said in this thread.
One more thing, one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night by ZERO percent.
It's all about March. Get healthy, work out the weight cutting issues, and peak at the right time, as we always do, and it will be 9 of 10 this year.
WE ARE!!!

Actually I think our title chances were impacted positively from last night. The team got a much better idea of what they have and what needs to be done for March. The sooner the better. I’d rather know now that Conel may not be the answer or other answers we are not sure of.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Interesting thoughts. Perspective helps. Maybe my age or how I’m wired helps ... last night was a tremendous learning experience. Yep, I want us to win, for sure, but any disappointment was replaced with the knowledge that Carl and co. will use this, maybe more than a win, he help this team get ready for the post-season. Oh, and injuries stink.

So, we lose one match and you start calling him Carl?

 

[dunkej01]

So, we lose one match and you start calling him Carl?

Beat me to it.

Lol

 

[WildTurk]

You know what always makes me feel better the day after a Hawkeye loss? A big Ass Bloody Mary! Delicious.

 

[Ja1339]

Agree, with most of what was said in this thread.
One more thing, one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night by ZERO percent.
It's all about March. Get healthy, work out the weight cutting issues, and peak at the right time, as we always do, and it will be 9 of 10 this year.
WE ARE!!!

NittanyChris, completely agree that last night's loss had 0 impact on March. And if we win it all in March, last night's loss will be a minor footnote.

But that dual streak was awesome, and for me, this sucks right now, not gonna lie.

 

[amattaro]

You know what always makes me feel better the day after a Hawkeye loss? A big Ass Bloody Mary! Delicious.

#DrinkItTurk

 

[Lion-around]

You know you are the gold standard for college wrestling when this loss makes the news ticker on ESPN.

 

[psualt]

You know what always makes me feel better the day after a Hawkeye loss? A big Ass Bloody Mary! Delicious.

I believe we’re all holding off for a double of Jack around 11:30 to prepare us for the game.

 

[7brwnpsu]

I was blessed to attend the match and due to the seating being open, my wife and I sat 3 rows behind the PSU team chairs. As with home matches it is interesting how the coach prepare each wrestler for their match. They of course wanted this win but when things weren't panning out, they were the same coaches, still encouraging the guys on the mat and when they finished each match.

We as a group are lucky son of a bitches.

Cael, Cody, Casey and Jake, didn't draw the best hand going into the match but they did damn good against at strong team, in their gym. The score was 19 to 18 last time I checked.

After the final whistle, the place went nuts.

Good for Arizona State, and their fans.

 

[joypa]

I feel like the dudes in the hangover right now.

I'd like to think I'm the Bradley cooper character though......

The good:
Nobody from tHR came over to gloat. Which is better than we would have been in reversed roles.
Cenzo, hall, raptor, NLee looked the part of champions
Brody battled. Dont mind losing but you got to battle. Good things happen to those who battle
We got options at every weight we think there are problems
We got Cael and staff, the field doesn't

The bad
Injuries happen but they still suck
Cross country flights are trouble for wrestlers
Home mat advantage

The ugly
tO$U
The ShOoooooooe
The name brutus
Scarlet as a color choice
The drive from pa to OH on I80
Bucknuts

In closing for those in panic mode......Dont forget....theres a freaking tiger in the bathroom (and his name may just be beard)

I guess I'd just like to know why Edsell wasn't able to weigh in. That forfeit might be what caused the loss.

 

[7brwnpsu]

Two other comments, after reading the other threads, I think it is so unfair the comments on Kyle Conel. I think the fans have put an expectation on him that is unfair based on one great national tournament.

I'm sure Kyle is a very good wrestler or Cael would not have offered him a roster spot. Kyle will come around, all athletes have periods that are not to their liking. He'll help the team. If you watched the match, he has a couple of adjustments to make.

I just hope he doesn't look at the crap written about him from His fan base.

Last comment, it was cool to see John Hnath from Pittsburgh come out as the Ref. I know John from his High School refing days and thought he did a great job for such a high profile match. John also had the match a couple years back a Rec Hall against Ohio State. That was the best dual I have ever seen and applaud he for his work there.

 

[El-Jefe]

You know you are the gold standard for college wrestling when this loss makes the news ticker on ESPN.

10 years ago, ASU fans don't storm the mat after beating us.

It's good to be the king.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Good … that really was an entertaining dual. Good to watch. Of most of the top 10 coaches, Zeke seems better to lose to than most.

All in all, I’d rather lose now than to Iowa in a few months. Cael will adjust and we will be fine by March.

Bad .... Verk or Teske needed to take a step forward. injuries are a thing, so Pipher and the FFT will happen, But 125 and 149 need to be sorted out

Ugly … Conel. Just not good enough like we all knew in the back of our minds.

Not sure there is much to be sorted out at 125. Teske is what he is - a redshirt freshman who needs to get a lot better. From the little we saw of Teske in 2018-19, his performance so far in 2019-20 should come as no surprise. His gas tank may keep him in some matches, but he looks to be at least a couple years away from even sniffing AA level. Right now a guy like Brandon Courtney (good solid wrestler but not among the elite at 125) would probably beat Teske 19 times out of 20. Regarding other options at 125, Meredith looked intriguing at the Army Invite last week, but I assume that the PSU staff is rolling out the best guy at the weight.

Verk is a bit more of an enigma. Might be way off base here, but seems like he could do more but lacks confidence and instead tries to "manage" his way to a narrow 1 or 2 point win. That approach has little margin for error and is a tough way for sustained success. Again, just my impression.

Regarding 197 - nothing more to say that already hasn't been said. Wasn't expecting greatness from Conel, but man. Will just leave it at that.

About the dual meet loss to ASU - it sucked. I get that in the bigger scheme it isn't all that important, but spare me the spin that it was "good for wrestling" or "will help PSU in the long run"; really dislike that type of rationalization. No, the loss sucked, plain and simple.

I will now prepare myself for PSU football to get smoked by Brutus. Over and out.

 

[Junglekitty]

My thoughts...

Teske: with every match I see him improving. Courtney is no slouch and Teske continually moved forward. I think he continues to make strides and ends up scoring more points for us come March. A few points out of this weight will be big.

RBY: impressive start, but seemed to slow down. Would really like to see more offense out of him, but a win is a win. Great scrambling and smart wrestling and I think he’s going to be on the podium again.

Lee: not much to say other than a title contender.

Verk: confusing for sure. Gives Jordan all he can handle, loses to Maruca. Not a dig at Maruca, but he’s no Jordan. Another wrestler that I’d like to see more offense out of. When the limp leg isn’t working, and you’re down by 2 (3 with riding time) it’s time to go.

Won’t harp on Pipher. Even though Teemer seemed to take great pride in beating a backup, I think he’s glad Berge wasn’t out there. A six point swing and the streak continues.

Cenzo: looked extremely good. That very well could be the finals match.

Hall: got woken up by the double and took it from there. Make that 3 title contenders.

FF: unfortunately Shak isn’t ready to go yet. Even if he was, I wouldn’t send him out for his first match against Valencia. Call it what you want, I’ve wrestled, coached, and reffed and under no circumstances do I think after a serious injury and surgery is it a good idea for a kid to wrestle someone of Valencia’s caliber his first match back. Period

197: most disappointing match of the night (149 close). Not sure if he’s still not in shape or the knee is more serious, but he’s definitely not showing what he was last year. He’s always been more of a tournament wrestler, but Norfleet is not as good as Conel made him look last night. A lot of people are calling for Beard. Not sure if that will happen or not, but if I had to guess, I’d say we don’t see Beard in the lineup until the new year, if at all.

Cassar: wow, almost wins the dual by putting Hall (ranked 5th) straight to his back off a double. I think that took a lot out of him squeezing for that pin. 4 title contenders

Overall absolutely no need to panic. It’s November, 4 months from when it counts. Dual streaks don’t raise banners, All Americans and champions do. Looking forward to seeing these guys take the mat again. WE ARE!

 

[nitlion6]

Good … that really was an entertaining dual. Good to watch. Of most of the top 10 coaches, Zeke seems better to lose to than most.

All in all, I’d rather lose now than to Iowa in a few months. Cael will adjust and we will be fine by March.

Bad .... Verk or Teske needed to take a step forward. injuries are a thing, so Pipher and the FFT will happen, But 125 and 149 need to be sorted out

Ugly … Conel. Just not good enough like we all knew in the back of our minds.

125 is sorted out.

 

[nitlion6]

Agree, with most of what was said in this thread.
One more thing, one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night by ZERO percent.
It's all about March. Get healthy, work out the weight cutting issues, and peak at the right time, as we always do, and it will be 9 of 10 this year.
WE ARE!!!

I like the post, but "one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night".
Whether or not a dual outcome significantly impacts a team's post season possibilities is problem?
In men's basketball Kansas has won an NCAA title with 11 losses that season. NCST and Villanova with 10, Indiana, UConn and Arizona with 9, 9 others with either 7 or 6 losses and nobody thinks there is a problem with the NCAA basketball championship model.
Just like any other NCAA sponsored championship the regular season plays a role in determining your championship qualifications and participation seeding. The wrestling model isn't a model necessarily unique to wrestling, nor is it (the model) viewed as a problem by other sports.

Sorry for the tangent.

 

[El-Jefe]

I like the post, but "one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night".
Whether or not a dual outcome significantly impacts a team's post season possibilities is problem?
In men's basketball Kansas has won an NCAA title with 11 losses that season. NCST and Villanova with 10, Indiana, UConn and Arizona with 9, 9 others with either 7 or 6 losses and nobody thinks there is a problem with the NCAA basketball championship model.
Just like any other NCAA sponsored championship the regular season plays a role in determining your championship qualifications and participation seeding. The wrestling model isn't a model necessarily unique to wrestling, nor is it (the model) viewed as a problem by other sports.

Sorry for the tangent.

I'll take this model over the one where a conference champ gets snubbed from the postseason for the conference 3rd place team they beat.

THAT is a meaningless regular season.

 

[nitlion6]

I'll take this model over the one where a conference champ gets snubbed from the postseason for the conference 3rd place team they beat.

THAT is a meaningless regular season.

Especially when your conference commissioner is the also ran 3rd place team's biggest cheerleader, and when the also ran 3rd place team gets curb stomped nobody seems to want to acknowledge their inclusion at the expense of the conference champion was an obvious and colossal mistake.

 

[js8793]

From an Iowa fan, I'd just like to say welcome back to the land of mortals, my friends. You'll probably look back at this with a chuckle come March anyway.

I don't think there's too much reason to worry, as most of you understand. I don't think you're going to get anything out of 125, 149, and 197, but the structure of tournament scoring allows your firepower to more than make up for that. Legit finalist threats at 133, 141, 165, 174, 184, and heavyweight, with a possible dark horse finalist at 157 depending on how he looks when he comes back still makes you guys the favorites imo. Beard could be an upgrade over Conel, but he hasn't been quite what I expected coming out. Those upperweights are so hard to predict coming out of high school. Everybody thought Warner would step right in and contend. Turns out there was a little talked about kid right down the road from him who's been better so far (Brucki).

 

[NittanyChris]

I like the post, but "one problem in this sport plays to our benefit after last night. That is, regular season duals mean absolutely nothing. Our title chances in March were impacted last night".
Whether or not a dual outcome significantly impacts a team's post season possibilities is problem?
In men's basketball Kansas has won an NCAA title with 11 losses that season. NCST and Villanova with 10, Indiana, UConn and Arizona with 9, 9 others with either 7 or 6 losses and nobody thinks there is a problem with the NCAA basketball championship model.
Just like any other NCAA sponsored championship the regular season plays a role in determining your championship qualifications and participation seeding. The wrestling model isn't a model necessarily unique to wrestling, nor is it (the model) viewed as a problem by other sports.

Sorry for the tangent.

Except in basketball there are many more games played and losses DO impact seeding in the tournament. In wrestling a team loss means NOTHING for the team chances, only impacting individual seeding of wrestlers which has minimal impact. Yes, I think it's a problem. One only needs too look at the frequent sitting of wrestlers during the regular season. It's bad. We will agree to disagree on this one.

 

[RoarLions1]

To me, wrestling and all sports are about the journey, and not just the destination. Duals are important.

 

[PSUbluTX]

I get that in the bigger scheme it isn't all that important, but spare me the spin that it was "good for wrestling" or "will help PSU in the long run"; really dislike that type of rationalization. No, the loss sucked, plain and simple.

I can definitely relate to this reaction. Losses by my favorite team (in whatever sport) hit me harder than I'd like. But there's a difference between rationalization and objective assessment. It's indisputably good for wrestling when a dynastic team gets unexpectedly upset. It inserts drama and excitement into the season, spurs encouragement for the also-ran teams, and creates interest in fans who no longer view the outcome of a single match or national championship as a foregone conclusion.

And yes, this loss will help PSU get better. It gives Cael & Co more meaningful data points to assemble and prepare the starting lineup for March, it motivates underperformers to improve in a way that a close win would not, and it encourages non-starters to step up and claim the spot.

And while I dig the idea of a crazy long winning streak and would prefer that PSU own that record, that's now one less pressure to feel for each dual (at least for me!). I suspect that Cael did not consider the winning streak as a goal in itself, but at most as a by-product of other team goals. He had to know last night that a loss was likely when he took the MFF at 184. Yet, he forged ahead with his team strategy anyway. Gratefully, Cael's strategic decisions have a long history of producing beautiful results at PSU.

 

[Johnbrooks]

The guys need to be healthy. Hopefully everyone is ready to go in January. The streak was nice, but not important.

 

[NittanyChris]

The guys need to be healthy. Hopefully everyone is ready to go in January. The streak was nice, but not important.

Exactly.

 

[IaGodsCountry]

The loss was huge for the visibility of wrestling, unfortunately for PSU and fans it was at their expense. People that don't follow wrestling won't understand the loss is pretty much irrelevant which is fine. I really wanted the streak to be going when they met Iowa this year.

Anyway... Hawkeye dual winning streak - 1
PSU dual winning streak - 0