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Thoughts after watching the replay

  • Screen passes killed us in the first half. PSU routinely sells out to create pressure. USC was expecting it led to way too many explosive plays.
  • The low block on Carter saved us before halftime. USC had 1st and goal but that penalty forced USC to accept a FG. 6-24 at halftime might have been insurmountable.
  • Passes to Singleton were nice. He had 4 catches with a TD.
  • I thought (hoped?) PSU would take control of the game after tying it 20-20 with 4:40 left in Q3. No such luck. Carter dropped a likely pick 6 that might have sealed the game.
  • PSU kept getting beat when they blitzed. We only got 1 sack and 1 turnover. The turnover was the pass intercepted by Reed at the end of regulation. Moss just missed it. It wasn't created by our pressure. I continue to think we pressure/blitz too much. The reward vs risk hasn't been in our favor. We're 9th/10th in the BiG with 14 sacks but 7 of those came late vs Illinois. We simply haven't had a good consistent pass rush. a lot of that is because we bring the heat so often that opponents have countered with screens and quick release passes.
  • PSU's last drive with 5:30 remaining was an adventure. Some great runs and passes but Allar was almost intercepted again. We relied on two 4th down conversions to Fleming (4th and 7, 4th and 10). It was good to finally see Fleming make some plays.
  • Warren was incredible but how was he allowed to be so wide open on several catches?
  • PSU got lucky in OT. Tracy definitely grabbled jersey. It wasn't horrible but it was enough to call. Miller definitely arrived early but announcers didn't mention that Carter was held by #79 on that play.
I have few complaints.

I did see that twice, Allar was so focused on Warren that he missed opportunities. In the 4th quarter when he threw to Warren short of the endzone, he had a guy wide open in the back of the endzone. Another time he has a wide open deep post but didn't see it and threw to Warren.

I also don't agree with the offensive pass interference on the first drive. All Fleming did was run a fly into the endzone. He wasn't blocking the guy.
 
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No doubt re: USC RT - he repeatedly got an early start stepping back with his right leg just before the snap (makes me wonder if USC QB was calling a compound snap-count - i.e., calling a number or word that indicates to snap ball on next count. This gives your OL an advantage as they are getting set to go on next noise from QB - regardless of what it is; kinda similar to the "set" in "ready-set-go"). In any event, the USC RT seemed to know exactly when the snap was coming before it came and repeatedly took a head-start by stepping his right leg back into pass-pro including on USC's last play of regulation (INT play).
We have had so many bad calls thru the years that I don't feel bad if the calls!!!! Maybe the refs are trying to make up for the past!
 
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My immediate concern is first half defense. There are games where it appears PSU has no clue what the opposition wants to do early in the games, resulting in big plays or points.
On the flip side, Allen’s halftime adjustments have been excellent and second-half defense has been very good.
Fixing those slow starts defensively would be my primary bye week goal. Probably easier said than done. Can’t count on playing from behind as the season gets late and the games get tough.
Agree. This is my top concern at this point. IDK what's going on with our first half defense but it's been a consistent issue. It almost burned us this against USC but we gutted it out. I'm very impressed at the 2nd half improvements so Allen clearly knows what he's doing, the big question is why can't we do it in the first half?
 
I have few complaints.

I did see that twice, Allar was so focused on Warren that he missed opportunities. In the 4th quarter when he threw to Warren short of the endzone, he had a guy wide open in the back of the endzone. Another time he has a wide open deep post but didn't see it and threw to Warren.

I also don't agree with the offensive pass interference on the first drive. All Fleming did was run a fly into the endzone. He wasn't blocking the guy.
That was Wallace wide open near the goalpost in the center of the endzone on the first play. I noticed that immediately. Wallace looked frustrated that Drew didn't see him.
 
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I have few complaints.

I did see that twice, Allar was so focused on Warren that he missed opportunities. In the 4th quarter when he threw to Warren short of the endzone, he had a guy wide open in the back of the endzone. Another time he has a wide open deep post but didn't see it and threw to Warren.

I also don't agree with the offensive pass interference on the first drive. All Fleming did was run a fly into the endzone. He wasn't blocking the guy.

It was also an inside screen pass which allows blocking downfield.
 
I have few complaints.

I did see that twice, Allar was so focused on Warren that he missed opportunities. In the 4th quarter when he threw to Warren short of the endzone, he had a guy wide open in the back of the endzone. Another time he has a wide open deep post but didn't see it and threw to Warren.

I also don't agree with the offensive pass interference on the first drive. All Fleming did was run a fly into the endzone. He wasn't blocking the guy.
If Flemming doesn't extend his arms, which wasn't at all necessary, it doesn't get called. It would seem that Flemming being a 4th year player should know that, but he knows it now.....
 
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If Flemming doesn't extend his arms, which wasn't at all necessary, it doesn't get called. It would seem that Flemming being a 4th year player should know that, but he knows it now.....

Wrong, it was an inside screen - doesn't matter a lick if Fleming extends his arms.
 
Yeah, he also could have called PI on Warren's TD catch in endzone, but didn't -- and the contract on Warren was far more blatant and severe (the USC DB never even attempted to play the ball
If that PI penalty was called we would have declined it anyway. It didn't matter.
 
  • Screen passes killed us in the first half. PSU routinely sells out to create pressure. USC was expecting it led to way too many explosive plays.
  • The low block on Carter saved us before halftime. USC had 1st and goal but that penalty forced USC to accept a FG. 6-24 at halftime might have been insurmountable.
  • Passes to Singleton were nice. He had 4 catches with a TD.
  • I thought (hoped?) PSU would take control of the game after tying it 20-20 with 4:40 left in Q3. No such luck. Carter dropped a likely pick 6 that might have sealed the game.
  • PSU kept getting beat when they blitzed. We only got 1 sack and 1 turnover. The turnover was the pass intercepted by Reed at the end of regulation. Moss just missed it. It wasn't created by our pressure. I continue to think we pressure/blitz too much. The reward vs risk hasn't been in our favor. We're 9th/10th in the BiG with 14 sacks but 7 of those came late vs Illinois. We simply haven't had a good consistent pass rush. a lot of that is because we bring the heat so often that opponents have countered with screens and quick release passes.
  • PSU's last drive with 5:30 remaining was an adventure. Some great runs and passes but Allar was almost intercepted again. We relied on two 4th down conversions to Fleming (4th and 7, 4th and 10). It was good to finally see Fleming make some plays.
  • Warren was incredible but how was he allowed to be so wide open on several catches?
  • PSU got lucky in OT. Tracy definitely grabbled jersey. It wasn't horrible but it was enough to call. Miller definitely arrived early but announcers didn't mention that Carter was held by #79 on that play.
Tracy seemed to have been picked on...was he the weakest player in the secondary yesterday? I think he's one of the least experienced?
 
Pass was thrown behind the LoS. You can block on this without it being a pick/offensive pass interference.
Watching it live, it looked to me like a block from behind though. I think that’s what Woodpecker was seeing. Difficult to see on my phone.
 
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Wrong, it was an inside screen - doesn't matter a lick if Fleming extends his arms.
Nothing about an "inside screen" allows or disallows blocking downfield by a WR. The relevant inquiries are "was the pass behind the LOS?" and "was this before or after the ball is in the air?"
 
Well he was only wide open because it's a trick play -- and Coach K called it at the right time when the USC D is really pressing.

It was the same play as 2-3 weeks ago where Singleton chips the end to fool the defense into thinking he's staying in to block.

I think they added a wrinkle this time -- 2 receivers lined up right and carried the coverage to the center and then Singleton sneaked out into the flat and no one on the D noticed him.

They're going to keep using this play until defenses figure it out. At some point someone is going to notice Singleton chipping and know it means something.

I think the 1994 D did this sort of thing quite a bit with Mike Archie. They'd have him in seemingly to block and then just sneak him into the flat, but by that time the defense was focused on other players. It was an important play against Michigan that year.
yeah that isn't really a trick play, Nick stayed in to block and then leaked to the flat....it was never the intention to look for him there but after going through his progression Drew spotted him and the rest is history

but it isn't some secret squirrel weird Kotelnicki special or anything
 
yeah that isn't really a trick play, Nick stayed in to block and then leaked to the flat....it was never the intention to look for him there but after going through his progression Drew spotted him and the rest is history

but it isn't some secret squirrel weird Kotelnicki special or anything
We've run that play several times. This is the exact same play against ILL (or was it UCLA?) where Nick chipped the DE (knocking him on his butt) then caught a pass in the flat where he ran over the defender to gain a critical third down.
 
I don't know that they are the exact same play, but the concept is identical for Nick. He chips and then drifts out. The play vs Illinois, Nick was the primary read. Vs USC, he was 2nd, 3rd, maybe even 4th.

I think we also had 2 WRs on the play side vs USC where as we had 1 or 0 vs Illinois.

Nevertheless, this was definitely not a trick play, even if USC was fooled. Probably a result of Warren having 17 receptions, they had to leave somebody open.
 
I don't know that they are the exact same play, but the concept is identical for Nick. He chips and then drifts out. The play vs Illinois, Nick was the primary read. Vs USC, he was 2nd, 3rd, maybe even 4th.

I think we also had 2 WRs on the play side vs USC where as we had 1 or 0 vs Illinois.

Nevertheless, this was definitely not a trick play, even if USC was fooled. Probably a result of Warren having 17 receptions, they had to leave somebody open.
I don't recall the D in previous times this play was run but USC was running man-to-man. The two WRs cut inside and both defenders went with them. I am pretty sure that Nick should have been covered but there was no OLB or S there from the TV shot. He had the entire side of the field open.
 
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Pass was thrown behind the LoS. You can block on this without it being a pick/offensive pass interference.
Watching it live, it looked to me like a block from behind though. I think that’s what Woodpecker was seeing. Difficult to see on my phone
 
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I don't recall the D in previous times this play was run but USC was running man-to-man. The two WRs cut inside and both defenders went with them. I am pretty sure that Nick should have been covered but there was no OLB or S there from the TV shot. He had the entire side of the field open.

It's been a welcomed add to the playbook. Particularly with a QB who can make multiple reads and RBs with good hands.

Watching it live, it looked to me like a block from behind though. I think that’s what Woodpecker was seeing. Difficult to see on my phone

Without rewatching, I can't say it wasn't a block in the back so I do see what you guys are saying.

I just thought the op was asking why the block was legal in this play vs a penalty on us prior.
 
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yeah that isn't really a trick play, Nick stayed in to block and then leaked to the flat....it was never the intention to look for him there but after going through his progression Drew spotted him and the rest is history

but it isn't some secret squirrel weird Kotelnicki special or anything
Pretty sure that's the name of the trick play
 
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Pretty sure that's the name of the trick play
I watched an awful movie last night with my wife. It was named "Lonely Planet" where a fifty-something Laura Dern falls in love with a division 2 former QB played by an early 30's Liam Hemsworth. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a hot early 30's guy is going to fall in love with a 55-ish woman (unless paid) was hard to overcome. Larua, especially, is not all that attractive even in her heyday.

But the big issue was that he describes a play that makes "control out of chaos" as a "Swing Pass." It was used as an analogy to issues in their lives. They need to call a "Swing Pass." Well, I have no freakin idea how a "swing pass" makes something out of chaos but figured few men who knew anything about football would be watching. But I've got an amazing and lovely wife so try to throw her a bone once in a while.

However, I did enjoy Kristen Bell in "Nobody Wants This." The comedy was good and I think Kristen, at times, can be very attractive.

intro-1728916680.webp
Kristen-Bell-Nobody-Wants-This-TV-Style-Fashion-Style-File-92524-NYC-TLO-5.jpg
 
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I watched an awful movie last night with my wife. It was named "Lonely Planet" where a fifty-something Laura Dern falls in love with a division 2 former QB played by an early 30's Liam Hemsworth. Aside from the ridiculous notion that a hot early 30's guy is going to fall in love with a 55-ish woman (unless paid) was hard to overcome. Larua, especially, is not all that attractive even in her heyday.

But the big issue was that he describes a play that makes "control out of chaos" as a "Swing Pass." It was used as an analogy to issues in their lives. They need to call a "Swing Pass." Well, I have no freakin idea how a "swing pass" makes something out of chaos but figured few men who knew anything about football would be watching. But I've got an amazing and lovely wife so try to throw her a bone once in a while.

However, I did enjoy Kristen Bell in "Nobody Wants This." The comedy was good and I think Kristen, at times, can be very attractive.

intro-1728916680.webp
Kristen-Bell-Nobody-Wants-This-TV-Style-Fashion-Style-File-92524-NYC-TLO-5.jpg

Typical Obliviax, where you get details wrong, and that totally throws everything off.

He describes the "swing ROUTE" as "finding hope in a big mess," not "control out of chaos."

And that makes sense, since you can describe what's going on downfield as a "big mess" (of bodies, movements and coverages), and the swing route is often an uncovered/poorly-covered outlet/check-down, where QBs find "hope" of making a positive out of a mess of receivers covered downfield.
 
I totally agree we dominated the stats. PSU had to settle for FGs in the red zone. I attribute some of that to struggles running.

I think USC had 6 explosive plays over 25 yds. That seemed to be a result of blitzing and press man coverage with only 1 safety and 1 LB back. The fact that PSU had more than 500 yds of offense doesn't explain why USC had more than 400 yds.

I don't blame Allar for his 3rd INT because that was a hail Mary. But he also nearly had one picked off on our last game tying drive. He definitely forced things and he needs to be better. On the flip side he played with more moxie. I liked the touch he showed on some misdirection passes (roll right, throw left).
Two of SC's big plays were on trick players. The fake reverse was a nice play design but multiple PSU players were out of position. The other was on the broken trick play (throw back pass) that PSU completely sniffed out but Marks made a ridiculous individual play (running about 80 yards to get 25).
 
A fairly positive take on the PSU win from Joel Klatt

In the end, at a 30k foot view, PSU played one of the most talented teams in America in their house, with their backs against the wall, and was down by 14 points. IMHO, PSU loses these games by either rolling over or giving up a big lead late. USC is not tOSU, GA or AL but they are in the next tier down. It should also be a big building block for the team and Allar specifically. The lesson learned is don't start slow and no deficit is too large to overcome.

I'll take it and happily.
 
In the end, at a 30k foot view, PSU played one of the most talented teams in America in their house, with their backs against the wall, and was down by 14 points. IMHO, PSU loses these games by either rolling over or giving up a big lead late. USC is not tOSU, GA or AL but they are in the next tier down. It should also be a big building block for the team and Allar specifically. The lesson learned is don't start slow and no deficit is too large to overcome.

I'll take it and happily.
Regarding the slow start on offense:
  • PSU went 72 yards on their first drive. They had 1st and goal at the USC 4 yd line. The drive stalled because two runs were unsuccessful and then Fleming got a PI call.
  • The second drive went 24 yards. It looked like Franklin was going to go for it on 4th and 3 but that changed when we got a false start penalty.
  • The next drive also went 25 yards but Allar was intercepted on 3rd and 6.
  • The next drive only went 17 yards.
  • The final drive of the first half went 64 yards. We had 1st and 10 at the USC 15 but a Singleton run went nowhere and Allar threw 2 incomplete passes before we settled for a FG.
My take is that PSU never went 3 and out and only punted once. The problem is we only scored 6 pts because of penalties and difficulties in the red zone (especially running).
 
Regarding the slow start on offense:
  • PSU went 72 yards on their first drive. They had 1st and goal at the USC 4 yd line. The drive stalled because two runs were unsuccessful and then Fleming got a PI call.
  • The second drive went 24 yards. It looked like Franklin was going to go for it on 4th and 3 but that changed when we got a false start penalty.
  • The next drive also went 25 yards but Allar was intercepted on 3rd and 6.
  • The next drive only went 17 yards.
  • The final drive of the first half went 64 yards. We had 1st and 10 at the USC 15 but a Singleton run went nowhere and Allar threw 2 incomplete passes before we settled for a FG.
My take is that PSU never went 3 and out and only punted once. The problem is we only scored 6 pts because of penalties and difficulties in the red zone (especially running).
Good analysis. I agree. The only problem with the offense in the first half is that we didn't finish drives and result in TDs.

Moreover, we only had five drives on offense. This has been the pattern as the defense has allowed long, time-consuming drives by WVU, BG, ILL, and UCLA. We have clearly taken a step back on defense so far. Is that a loss of personnel (graduation, injury and dismissal) or Allen's D scheme? Perhaps a bit of both? We have to do better on defense in the first half.
 
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Regarding the slow start on offense:
  • PSU went 72 yards on their first drive. They had 1st and goal at the USC 4 yd line. The drive stalled because two runs were unsuccessful and then Fleming got a PI call.
  • The second drive went 24 yards. It looked like Franklin was going to go for it on 4th and 3 but that changed when we got a false start penalty.
  • The next drive also went 25 yards but Allar was intercepted on 3rd and 6.
  • The next drive only went 17 yards.
  • The final drive of the first half went 64 yards. We had 1st and 10 at the USC 15 but a Singleton run went nowhere and Allar threw 2 incomplete passes before we settled for a FG.
My take is that PSU never went 3 and out and only punted once. The problem is we only scored 6 pts because of penalties and difficulties in the red zone (especially running).
Bingo. We moved the ball well, drives just stalled out. My biggest disappointment in the game was our inability to consistently run the ball after USC had shown in other games that they were vulnerable to that. But we did well in the passing game to overcome that.
 
Good analysis. I agree. The only problem with the offense in the first half is that we didn't finish drives and result in TDs.

Moreover, we only had five drives on offense. This has been the pattern as the defense has allowed long, time-consuming drives by WVU, BG, ILL, and UCLA. We have clearly taken a step back on defense so far. Is that a loss of personnel (graduation, injury and dismissal) or Allen's D scheme? Perhaps a bit of both? We have to do better on defense in the first half.
To your point about the defense, I think that is going to be what trips us up vs OSU. Btw I believe we beat Wisky. Back to OSU, they are so good and their offense is lethal. I think it simply comes down to them being able to put up somewhere around 30 or 35 on us (they had around that vs Oregon) and we won't be able to match that on offense. We put up 30 vs USC in regulation and their defense is a far cry from OSU's. We would have to be just about flawless on offense to have a good shot. That means TDs and no FGs in the red zone. No interceptions, no drops and very few penalties if any. I don't see that happening.

On defense I see Egbuka and Smith having an absolute field day on us and their RBs also having good days. We will get some stops but all in all they will have their way with our D.
 
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Good analysis. I agree. The only problem with the offense in the first half is that we didn't finish drives and result in TDs.

Moreover, we only had five drives on offense. This has been the pattern as the defense has allowed long, time-consuming drives by WVU, BG, ILL, and UCLA. We have clearly taken a step back on defense so far. Is that a loss of personnel (graduation, injury and dismissal) or Allen's D scheme? Perhaps a bit of both? We have to do better on defense in the first half.
IIRC PSU played it straight up on our first defensive possession and forced USC to punt. By straight up I mean 3 LBs, none at the LOS, and no DB blitz. After that we went to our usual defense where at least 1 LB is on the LOS along with 1 DB (often Reed). Usually a blitz but sometimes a player drops back. IMO that's where the PSU gets burned by screens and quick release passes. The second half was better than the first but still an issue.
 
To your point about the defense, I think that is going to be what trips us up vs OSU. Btw I believe we beat Wisky. Back to OSU, they are so good and their offense is lethal. I think it simply comes down to them being able to put up somewhere around 30 or 35 on us (they had around that vs Oregon) and we won't be able to match that on offense. We put up 30 vs USC in regulation and their defense is a far cry from OSU's. We would have to be just about flawless on offense to have a good shot. That means TDs and no FGs in the red zone. No interceptions, no drops and very few penalties if any. I don't see that happening.

On defense I see Egbuka and Smith having an absolute field day on us and their RBs also having good days. We will get some stops but all in all they will have their way with our D.
I think we'll be competitive. They'll try to take away Warren and play to our WR's which is still our weakness on offense. We'll have to score a lot of points to win. I am not a huge fan of tOSU's QB Will Howard but he is certainly, at least, good. I guess he is better than last year's QB but not as good as the tOSU QBs we've seen over the last ten years from them.

Regardless, I don't think we have to beat tOSU this year to get a home game against a team we can beat. We have to win all of the other games. I'd be happy to see an Oregon tOSU rematch for the B1G championship while we await and prepare for a home game.
 
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Watching it live, it looked to me like a block from behind though. I think that’s what Woodpecker was seeing. Difficult to see on my phone.
it looks that way because it kinda is. However the WR is allowed to make that block provided he maintains contact in the whole event, which he does. He can’t release the block and the come again and block in the back.
 
To your point about the defense, I think that is going to be what trips us up vs OSU. Btw I believe we beat Wisky. Back to OSU, they are so good and their offense is lethal. I think it simply comes down to them being able to put up somewhere around 30 or 35 on us (they had around that vs Oregon) and we won't be able to match that on offense. We put up 30 vs USC in regulation and their defense is a far cry from OSU's. We would have to be just about flawless on offense to have a good shot. That means TDs and no FGs in the red zone. No interceptions, no drops and very few penalties if any. I don't see that happening.

On defense I see Egbuka and Smith having an absolute field day on us and their RBs also having good days. We will get some stops but all in all they will have their way with our D.
Agree. PSU will have to be fortunate for a victory. Need to force some turnovers and somehow limit Smith and Egbuka and keep their outstanding RBs from explosive runs.
On offense, PSU has to have sustained drives that all end with points.
Easily the most challenging game of the year from what their offense can produce.
The fans HAVE TO bring noise that causes disruptions for the OSU offense.

As fans we can talk about the OSU game but for the team it's Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.
 
Agree. PSU will have to be fortunate for a victory. Need to force some turnovers and somehow limit Smith and Egbuka and keep their outstanding RBs from explosive runs.
On offense, PSU has to have sustained drives that all end with points.
Easily the most challenging game of the year from what their offense can produce.
The fans HAVE TO bring noise that causes disruptions for the OSU offense.

As fans we can talk about the OSU game but for the team it's Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.
It would be nice to have this as a night game White Out. Still amazed we are stuck playing this game at high noon.

You bring up turnovers. Yes, that could be an equalizer. Their QB Howard had an 80% completion rate vs Oregon. He played a great game. Forget about the late slide. He may be their skill guy weak link but that is because everyone else is a top 3 round NFL guy not because he is an average player. The kid looked very good vs Oregon.

They lost their OT to injury so maybe that gives us a bit of an opening as in they can't run or pass protect quite as well. Don't know.

They are just so lethal on offense that I have trouble seeing us slowing them down. They have two NFL backs and two first round NFL WRs. Try to stop the run they pass all over you. Focus on stopping the pass and Henderson or Judkins busts one. Pick your poison. Allen will have to devise his best game plan ever to slow them down. And he can't just wait until halftime to make adjustments, if he does we will already have given up 30 by halftime. AK will have to keep them guessing. More confident that AK can dial up some things to inflict some damage on their D. They won't have an answer for Warren. Not sure Allen can come up with anything to materially slow them down.
 
It would be nice to have this as a night game White Out. Still amazed we are stuck playing this game at high noon.

You bring up turnovers. Yes, that could be an equalizer. Their QB Howard had an 80% completion rate vs Oregon. He played a great game. Forget about the late slide. He may be their skill guy weak link but that is because everyone else is a top 3 round NFL guy not because he is an average player. The kid looked very good vs Oregon.

They lost their OT to injury so maybe that gives us a bit of an opening as in they can't run or pass protect quite as well. Don't know.

They are just so lethal on offense that I have trouble seeing us slowing them down. They have two NFL backs and two first round NFL WRs. Try to stop the run they pass all over you. Focus on stopping the pass and Henderson or Judkins busts one. Pick your poison. Allen will have to devise his best game plan ever to slow them down. And he can't just wait until halftime to make adjustments, if he does we will already have given up 30 by halftime. AK will have to keep them guessing. More confident that AK can dial up some things to inflict some damage on their D. They won't have an answer for Warren. Not sure Allen can come up with anything to materially slow them down.
I think Allen will have an easier time scheming against OSU. At least this is a familiar opponent and opposing coach for Allen and the rest of the PSU staff. USC was not.
 
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I think Allen will have an easier time scheming against OSU. At least this is a familiar opponent and opposing coach for Allen and the rest of the PSU staff. USC was not.
Hopefully. I know Allen did a decent job defending OSU when he was at IU. This will be a huge challenge for Allen.
 
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