The day after

[Psalm 1 guy]

I just arrived home in San Diego after driving to my first PSU dual. I would echo many of the sentiments here. As of a fan of wrestling in general, I can't help but think having over 8500 fans attend a dual at ASU to watch a PSU upset is good for the sport. For the most part, I felt ASU wrestled hard and with a lot of passion. Kudos to the ASU fans for their energy and enthusiasm. Even as a PSU fan I couldn't help but enjoy seeing the students rush the mat.

It was great seeing so many PSU fans in attendance. As for the ASU fans, they were passionate and loud, but I never heard one negative comment directed at any PSU wrestler or fan. Wrestling fans in general always seem to be good people. I sat right above Vincenzo's mom and dad. I noticed her right away by that hat she always wears!

I spoke with Anthony Robles after the dual. I mentioned to him that his cousin used to work for me. Anthony told me that his cousin had introduced him to wrestling. I told him I appreciated the wrestling insight he brings to his announcing and he told me he appreciated that coming from a wrestling fan. He seems like a very nice guy.

Overall, even though the result was not I wanted, I enjoyed the dual and the passion exhibited by all the wrestling fans. I can't help but think that duals like this one are what will grow wrestling in this country. I'm sure some of the young people in attendance last night will be motivated to either start wrestling themselves or dedicate themselves even more strongly to the sport we all love and respect.

 

[slushhead]

. . . About the dual meet loss to ASU - it sucked. I get that in the bigger scheme it isn't all that important, but spare me the spin that it was "good for wrestling" or "will help PSU in the long run"; really dislike that type of rationalization. No, the loss sucked, plain and simple.

Some of us have the ability (and desire) to take in the big picture, beyond a narrow focus on wins and losses by our favorite team. A small part of me smiles at what happened last night, simply out of appreciation for the joy and exultation brought about by an underdog slaying Goliath. It's not a rationalization for the loss -- it's a recognition that something special happened in the sport of wrestling, something that is bigger than the suckiness of a loss. And my favorite team will live to wrestle another day.

 

[dunkej01]

Some of us have the ability (and desire) to take in the big picture, beyond a narrow focus on wins and losses by our favorite team. A small part of me smiles at what happened last night, simply out of appreciation for the joy and exultation brought about by an underdog slaying Goliath. It's not a rationalization for the loss -- it's a recognition that something special happened in the sport of wrestling, something that is bigger than the suckiness of a loss. And my favorite team will live to wrestle another day.

You are so much more evolved than the rest of us. The time at shawshank (tHR) has really proven to be a worthy endeavor.

 

[Descat1]

I just view the glee from fans and media as validation of where the program is at. It's not malice, it's just the flip side of what, say, a Dolphins fan like myself feels when the Patriots occasionally lose in the Super Bowl. It's what makes sports great.

And yeah, in all likelihood last night's lineup isn't going to be the lineup that goes to NCAAs, but it's not as if the match needs as asterisk. Teams forfeit matches and they pay the price if it goes south. We lost, the streak is over, and that's okay. Our loss was the sport's gain, for one night.

I'm just confused why someone didn't wrestle at 184. All they had to do was to get technical falled and not get pinned and PSU wins. That was the only confusing thing to me.... losses happen injuries happen, guys get sick, but in this instance, I was shocked that no on took to the mat at the weight.

 

[lobo lion]

I feel like the dudes in the hangover right now.

I'd like to think I'm the Bradley cooper character though......

The good:
Nobody from tHR came over to gloat. Which is better than we would have been in reversed roles.
Cenzo, hall, raptor, NLee looked the part of champions
Brody battled. Dont mind losing but you got to battle. Good things happen to those who battle
We got options at every weight we think there are problems
We got Cael and staff, the field doesn't

The bad
Injuries happen but they still suck
Cross country flights are trouble for wrestlers
Home mat advantage

The ugly
tO$U
The ShOoooooooe
The name brutus
Scarlet as a color choice
The drive from pa to OH on I80
Bucknuts

In closing for those in panic mode......Dont forget....theres a freaking tiger in the bathroom (and his name may just be beard)

Good comments; and nice continuation of The Hangover reference.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Some of us have the ability (and desire) to take in the big picture, beyond a narrow focus on wins and losses by our favorite team. A small part of me smiles at what happened last night, simply out of appreciation for the joy and exultation brought about by an underdog slaying Goliath. It's not a rationalization for the loss -- it's a recognition that something special happened in the sport of wrestling, something that is bigger than the suckiness of a loss. And my favorite team will live to wrestle another day.

Thanks, but didn't really need a sermon. I acknowledged that the loss to ASU isn't that important in the bigger scheme. I mostly just don't like the bogus (yeah, my opinion) positive spin from the loss that some folks like to weave.

 

[tikk10]

I'm just confused why someone didn't wrestle at 184. All they had to do was to get technical falled and not get pinned and PSU wins. That was the only confusing thing to me.... losses happen injuries happen, guys get sick, but in this instance, I was shocked that no on took to the mat at the weight.

Per Christian Pyles, the forfeit at 184 was because Edesll failed a skin check. Since Rasheed is still recovering they had no one to weigh in.

 

[Brian LB-U]

Per Christian Pyles, the forfeit at 184 was because Edesll failed a skin check. Since Rasheed is still recovering they had no one to weigh in.

And Cody told JB post match that Shak hasn't been medically cleared so they couldn't have wrestled him even if they wanted to. My only question is why bring Shak along and not another backup as insurance? Obviously they would be dipping deep into the well at that point (they're not burning AB's shirt for a November dual), but we do have other 184/174 pounders on the roster.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Per Christian Pyles, the forfeit at 184 was because Edesll failed a skin check. Since Rasheed is still recovering they had no one to weigh in.

I have wondered about this one. Hard to predict and one of these days a top seed might miss Nationals. Why not just slap a 4x4 medical adhesive bandage on it, then wrap in an ace bandage for insurance then tape it and send them out there? I know empitaigo is nasty and contagious, but isn't there a middle ground if it is in a location that can be reliably covered? Any dermatologists out there?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I have wondered about this one. Hard to predict and one of these days a top seed might miss Nationals. Why not just slap a 4x4 medical adhesive bandage on it, then wrap in an ace bandage for insurance then tape it and send them out there? I know empitaigo is nasty and contagious, but isn't there a middle ground if it is in a location that can be reliably covered? Any dermatologists out there?

So, who all traveled? Seems to me we coulda bumped Hall, Vinny, or even both.

sorry,replied to the wrong post

 

[El-Jefe]

So, who all traveled? Seems to me we coulda bumped Hall, Vinny, or even both.

sorry,replied to the wrong post

In order to lose 3 weights instead of 1?

Maybe Cenzo beats Anthony when giving up weight. (Definitely wins at the same weight.) But Hall was a tossup with Zahid when not giving up weight. And Shields would likely bonus any backup.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

In order to lose 3 weights instead of 1?

Maybe Cenzo beats Anthony when giving up weight. (Definitely wins at the same weight.) But Hall was a tossup with Zahid when not giving up weight. And Shields would likely bonus any backup.

Take the chance, never forfeit. Why did Shak travel?? We didnt need cheerleaders, we needed able bodies.

 

[IaGodsCountry]

Maybe the hulahoop girl could have went

 

[El-Jefe]

Take the chance, never forfeit. Why did Shak travel?? We didnt need cheerleaders, we needed able bodies.

Never give up 6 points when you are likely to give up 7-10 instead. SMH.

 

[nitlion6]

And Cody told JB post match that Shak hasn't been medically cleared so they couldn't have wrestled him even if they wanted to. My only question is why bring Shak along and not another backup as insurance? Obviously they would be dipping deep into the well at that point (they're not burning AB's shirt for a November dual), but we do have other 184/174 pounders on the roster.

So they knew before they got on the plane that the kid was going to be scratched when he reached the scale and should have planned appropriately? Got it.

 

[El-Jefe]

My only question is why bring Shak along and not another backup as insurance?

Because Shak is the best person to scout Zahid for a likely match in the national semis or finals.

 

[Ski]

Because Shak is the best person to scout Zahid for a likely match in the national semis or finals.

Shak can turn to Mark Hall for scouting reports on Zahid, as they have probably wrestled a dozen times in multiple styles over the years. He didn’t get anything at the match that he couldn’t have gotten watching the tape. When you can only weigh in a few extra wrestlers then those guys need to be ready to go. It isn’t a big deal in that we know that March is what matters, but if we are going to play the game and keep score then play to win.

 

[El-Jefe]

Shak can turn to Mark Hall for scouting reports on Zahid, as they have probably wrestled a dozen times in multiple styles over the years. He didn’t get anything at the match that he couldn’t have gotten watching the tape. When you can only weigh in a few extra wrestlers then those guys need to be ready to go. It isn’t a big deal in that we know that March is what matters, but if we are going to play the game and keep score then play to win.

Disagree, but fine. If you prefer: to keep Zeke honest and not bump Zahid to take on a hobbled Conel.

Really, are we actually disputing Cael Freaking Sanderson's travel roster decisions?

 

[Sportfan2017]

Take the chance, never forfeit. Why did Shak travel?? We didnt need cheerleaders, we needed able bodies.

Shak goes because he is a part of the team and a great team mate. Can't wrestle if you aren't medically cleared from ACL surgery! What possible scouting could Shak get from an opponent that didn't wrestle? Or if he did wrestle a backup....he was going to get more info from that match than every other dual and tournament match he has or will wrestle? I doubt that ANY of Zahid's matches are not on video. There may be areas to criticize...but this seems like a hard no......period.

 

[Ski]

Disagree, but fine. If you prefer: to keep Zeke honest and not bump Zahid to take on a hobbled Conel.

Really, are we actually disputing Cael Freaking Sanderson's travel roster decisions?

Yes, I am questioning it. We lost because of the forfeit. Granted Hoopes or someone else traveling instead of Shak may have gotten pinned, but at least you have a chance. I’ve watched Manville go up two weights and keep it respectable against top 10 guys. This isn’t football where you travel 60. The guys that go as an insurance policy need to be physically able to wrestle on the day you leave town. Shak wasn’t. It is not what we do (or perhaps it is). Forfeits suck. Reward a guy in the room working hard with an appearance in a dual rather than rewarding an injured starter with a field trip that could and did cost the rest of the team.

 

[Dogwelder]

... Reward a guy in the room working hard with an appearance in a dual rather than rewarding an injured starter with a field trip that could and did cost the rest of the team.

In hindsight, you know what two things you’re comparing: losing the meet vs. having a chance.

But a priori, it was not so either/or. I mean, we bring one spare tire in a car, but we don’t have spare everything. We generally have no spare battery, for example.

There is a psychological and spiritual element to athletes and to coaching. I presume that Cael thought it would buoy or help Shak to travel with the team. Remember, Cael is the guy who makes James English and Q and others over-perform when it counts. He plants seeds in his wrestlers’ minds. So without having magic hindsight beforehand, he probably had a good worth-the-risk reason to bring Shak.

I mean, whatever gambling Cael’s been doing, it had worked the last 60 duals! And now we are suddenly geniuses and we got a plan that Cael needs?

 

[nitlion6]

Shak can turn to Mark Hall for scouting reports on Zahid, as they have probably wrestled a dozen times in multiple styles over the years. He didn’t get anything at the match that he couldn’t have gotten watching the tape. When you can only weigh in a few extra wrestlers then those guys need to be ready to go. It isn’t a big deal in that we know that March is what matters, but if we are going to play the game and keep score then play to win.

So you are under the impression they did not play to win?
Of course after reading a handful of posters repeatedly bemoan the whys of the forfeit and rather obvious solutions missed by Cael and staff I have concluded that after a loss a whole lot of dumb asses with very little knowledge and situational understanding bordering on simpleton suffer deep needs to show up and post.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

PSU Wrestling's Vision vs. PSU Wrestling Fan's Vision

2-3 hours per day, 7 days per week, vs. 28 minutes on the mat
Kyle Conel's nutrition vs. the next thing we stuff in our mouths
March 21, 2020; March 20, 2021; March 19, 2022 vs. November 22, 2019

 

[Brian LB-U]

So they knew before they got on the plane that the kid was going to be scratched when he reached the scale and should have planned appropriately? Got it.

No, Mr Snarky, that is not what I'm saying. Poor interpretation on your part.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Does anyone here know who all traveled?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Shak goes because he is a part of the team and a great team mate. Can't wrestle if you aren't medically cleared from ACL surgery! What possible scouting could Shak get from an opponent that didn't wrestle? Or if he did wrestle a backup....he was going to get more info from that match than every other dual and tournament match he has or will wrestle? I doubt that ANY of Zahid's matches are not on video. There may be areas to criticize...but this seems like a hard no......period.

Are you claiming Shak is a better teamate than,say, ANYONE who would have actually been ABLE to wrestle, had we needed them,and in this case, DID.

 

[Ski]

Are you claiming Shak is a better teamate than,say, ANYONE who would have actually been ABLE to wrestle, had we needed them,and in this case, DID.

I think he meant to end his first sentence with a question mark and he was saying just the opposite.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I think he meant to end his first sentence with a question mark and he was saying just the opposite.

ok i kinda thought that too.

 

[Ski]

In hindsight, you know what two things you’re comparing: losing the meet vs. having a chance.

But a priori, it was not so either/or. I mean, we bring one spare tire in a car, but we don’t have spare everything. We generally have no spare battery, for example.

There is a psychological and spiritual element to athletes and to coaching. I presume that Cael thought it would buoy or help Shak to travel with the team. Remember, Cael is the guy who makes James English and Q and others over-perform when it counts. He plants seeds in his wrestlers’ minds. So without having magic hindsight beforehand, he probably had a good worth-the-risk reason to bring Shak.

I mean, whatever gambling Cael’s been doing, it had worked the last 60 duals! And now we are suddenly geniuses and we got a plan that Cael needs?

I get you on Cael having the magic 8 ball and coming up with the right answers for what matters in March. Been so spoiled for almost 5 years that losing a meaningless dual seems a lot worse than it is. God willing, we won’t have to worry about being used to losing regularly like @jammenz and living on old glories or having 3 favorite teams.

 

[nerfstate]

Numerous times, I’ve seen redshirting freshman taken on road trips to give them a taste for what is in store. There is rarely ever intention that they would compete if a starter couldn’t go (Mark at CHA is an outlier). If the staff thought Edsell was the starter, they thought they had the weight covered. They obviously aren’t going to jeopardize a chronically injured and still recovering Shak, who’s sole reason for still being on the team is for unfinished business in March, to try and win a dual in November. We had many chances to win that dual on the mat, didn’t happen.

I really don’t get all the angst over this. As someone we know would say: Lehigh, Lehigh, Lehigh!

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

ok i kinda thought that too.

Yeah I see your point, changes his post entirely.

 

[slushhead]

Thanks, but didn't really need a sermon. I acknowledged that the loss to ASU isn't that important in the bigger scheme. I mostly just don't like the bogus (yeah, my opinion) positive spin from the loss that some folks like to weave.

Hey, don't complain about a "sermon" after you attempt to delegitimize people's valid perspectives on how they viewed the loss. You asked for it.

That your view is so narrow that the only way to see the outcome is as something that "sucks" is a you problem. Expect pushback if you want to use it to declare other perspectives bogus. Plain and simple.

 

[slushhead]

Guys, one of the reasons Rasheed travels to the dual and weighs in is to help prepare for his return. There are regimented routines athletes go through for training and for competition. Getting Rasheed (or any wrestler coming off a layoff) ready for competition by "going through the motions" is part of the process of return. That he traveled and weighed in is a good sign he is close.

EDIT: Now seeing there was an entire thread created for this question. @Rhino80 provided the answer there, too.

 

[El-Jefe]

Guys, one of the reasons Rasheed travels to the dual and weighs in is to help prepare for his return. There are regimented routines athletes go through for training and for competition. Getting Rasheed (or any wrestler coming off a layoff) ready for competition by "going through the motions" is part of the process of return. That he traveled and weighed in is a good sign he is close.

Several posters know better than Cael, so while your explanation makes sense, that can't be it.

 

[Hotshoe]

I feel like the dudes in the hangover right now.

I'd like to think I'm the Bradley cooper character though......

The good:
Nobody from tHR came over to gloat. Which is better than we would have been in reversed roles.
Cenzo, hall, raptor, NLee looked the part of champions
Brody battled. Dont mind losing but you got to battle. Good things happen to those who battle
We got options at every weight we think there are problems
We got Cael and staff, the field doesn't

The bad
Injuries happen but they still suck
Cross country flights are trouble for wrestlers
Home mat advantage

The ugly
tO$U
The ShOoooooooe
The name brutus
Scarlet as a color choice
The drive from pa to OH on I80
Bucknuts

In closing for those in panic mode......Dont forget....theres a freaking tiger in the bathroom (and his name may just be beard)

The good news, their fans are as dumb as ours. They believe Ryan Days sucks calling plays. 1 close game and that's how they treat him. Up 21-0 and he's taking sh&t. Hmmmm, just like ours do, like after our Michigan win when we were up...21-0 as well. Lol

 

[Ski]

The good news, their fans are as dumb as ours. They believe Ryan Days sucks calling plays. 1 close game and that's how they treat him. Up 21-0 and he's taking sh&t. Hmmmm, just like ours do, like after our Michigan win when we were up...21-0 as well. Lol

Just think how great it will be when all the TV geniuses talk non-stop about PSU’s 2nd half victory against OSU like they did with Michigan’s 2nd half victory against PSU. Okay, I know that isn’t happening. The shtick will be that we were just lucky OSU played it conservative in the 2nd half.

 

[Hotshoe]

Just think how great it will be when all the TV geniuses talk non-stop about PSU’s 2nd half victory against OSU like they did with Michigan’s 2nd half victory against PSU. Okay, I know that isn’t happening. The shtick will be that we were just lucky OSU played it conservative in the 2nd half.

Exactly, and exactly what I just posted on the pay board. The same reason the polls have Michigan ranked ahead of the same Penn State team that beat them. Is it any wonder why when you look at how our own fans rip this team daily. Not one of them predicted 10-2. The bitching started after the very first play yesterday in the game thread. They did have to eat a lot of crow in the 2nd half. Then they go and bitch about basketball right after. They have to be some of the most miserable people out there. God help their wives.

 

[PSU_Lion_Fan]

I just arrived home in San Diego after driving to my first PSU dual. I would echo many of the sentiments here. As of a fan of wrestling in general, I can't help but think having over 8500 fans attend a dual at ASU to watch a PSU upset is good for the sport. For the most part, I felt ASU wrestled hard and with a lot of passion. Kudos to the ASU fans for their energy and enthusiasm. Even as a PSU fan I couldn't help but enjoy seeing the students rush the mat.

It was great seeing so many PSU fans in attendance. As for the ASU fans, they were passionate and loud, but I never heard one negative comment directed at any PSU wrestler or fan. Wrestling fans in general always seem to be good people. I sat right above Vincenzo's mom and dad. I noticed her right away by that hat she always wears!

I spoke with Anthony Robles after the dual. I mentioned to him that his cousin used to work for me. Anthony told me that his cousin had introduced him to wrestling. I told him I appreciated the wrestling insight he brings to his announcing and he told me he appreciated that coming from a wrestling fan. He seems like a very nice guy.

Overall, even though the result was not I wanted, I enjoyed the dual and the passion exhibited by all the wrestling fans. I can't help but think that duals like this one are what will grow wrestling in this country. I'm sure some of the young people in attendance last night will be motivated to either start wrestling themselves or dedicate themselves even more strongly to the sport we all love and respect.

Very well said. We must have been sitting very close to each other. My son and I were one row behind the Joseph’s, to their right. Brody Teske’s grandfather and mom were sitting beside me. I joked with his grandpa asking him if they would let him back into Iowa wearing his PSU wrestling shirt. I as well had the pleasure of talking to Anthony Robles. ASU fans were very hospitable and respectful of our program. Like you stated, it was not the result I was hoping for, but congratulations to ASU on a signature win.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Hey, don't complain about a "sermon" after you attempt to delegitimize people's valid perspectives on how they viewed the loss. You asked for it.

That your view is so narrow that the only way to see the outcome is as something that "sucks" is a you problem. Expect pushback if you want to use it to declare other perspectives bogus. Plain and simple.

The good news is, I'm comfortable with my perspective, despite your preaching. So there's no real "problem", just differing views. Thanks for chatting.

 

[nitlion6]

No, Mr Snarky, that is not what I'm saying. Poor interpretation on your part.

Nothing inappropriate with my interpretation. They have a limited number of people they take on trips. Those extra spots in the past have been used by redshirts (were definitely not going to wrestle), injured/recovering athletes (were definitely not going to wrestle), backups who may wrestle (Matt Brown as a freshman), an intentional backup for an athlete they hoped would go, but still a lingering doubt, the second guy in a Verk/Gardner bundle and other non starters they want on the trip for whatever reason.
One example that I am unfamiliar with is when they have a starter who is a backup himself lined up, weight is under control and there are no known issues and for whatever reason they come up with the thought "let's take the 3rd string guy just in case something pops up at this particular weight."

There were more than one or two goofballs on here posting the same bullshyt. Most because that is the limit to their ability to contribute. You don't suffer from that limitation, so higher expectations.

 

[District four]

Several posters know better than Cael, so while your explanation makes sense, that can't be it.

Lol