Football The future of Beaver Stadium...

Zenophile

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If you are so smart, explain the benefit to us for the hotels to lower their prices when they are currently full. What is the cost/benefit here for them? Shaner, The Scholar Group and others have no reason to accept such a partnership. Especially now that the Scholar Group has eaten much of their competition with ownership of the Penn Stater, the Inn, the Residence Inn and the Courtyard and of course the converted Glenland building into the Scholar. Strategic partnerships only work when there is benefit on both sides. The athletic department attempts a similar partnership to house student athletes parents at a reduced cost. That was a complete bust as there were no takers.
C’mon, coach. This isn’t an ad hominem attack. It’s a suggestion. If Penn State wants season ticket holders outside of Centre County, then they had damned well better start looking for ways to make it easier for us to do so.

And I would absolutely welcome the opportunity to help Penn State explore this strategy. They know how to contact me.
 
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cramx3

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I think it would be sad to see the capacity drop below 100k. For some reason that number seems special, just a massive amount of fans and a huge part of what makes Beaver stadium special IMO. However, I understand future crowds may not be as big (maybe I'm wrong?) and that stadium comfort is important too. Sadly, I have no idea how they can make such important and needed upgrades without starting from scratch.
 

The Spin Meister

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Tough question. First one needs to anticipate future revenues. And I fear that 15-20 years from now college football as we know it will not exist. The biggest issue is falling student enrollments as kids go to community colleges and even more so, everything goes online. Why go to college for $40,000 a year plus room and board when you can get a comparable degree online? Or just take the first two years online then attend a type of finishing school for hands on learning. Or even start work and get paid while earning a bachelor degree.

It is very hard to see the massive universities we currently have managing to maintain the status quo. Today’s kids live in their cell phones and rarely have eye contact or an audible discussion. They will be far more comfortable learning online instead facing a stuffing, demanding professor.

Very hard to commit to hundreds of million of dollars for improvements. And with the portal, free agency, early withdrawals by super stars, NIL issues, again population, apathy of younger generations, and more., it easy to see fans opting to stay home or not even follow football.

With these considerations, I would upgrade concessions and restrooms, cut capacity by ten grand to give more space to our ever expanding butts, and add multi use facilities like conference rooms, class rooms, admin offices, and more. There is a ton of wasted space in the stadium super structure. Need to diversify its income base because football alone won’t cut it in the future,
 

Ian

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are hotel costs not included? The amount of merchandise purchased downtown every game I go to as well as the lines at stores makes me believe its higher than 87 million
Most people drive in with Tailgate supplies and go to the game. They leave immediately afterward. Everything is a three hour wait on Fridays and Saturday nights because the "adult places" to go are dwindling. It doesn't take many people dwntwn SC to make it look crowded. Bottom line is a good "capture" rate is not available when 110,000 ascend on the town for a day. By comparison I saw that the Arts fest attracts 125,000 over 4 days.
 
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bison13

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Most people drive in with Tailgate supplies and go to the game. They leave immediately afterward. Everything is a three hour wait on Fridays and Saturday nights because the "adult places" to go are dwindling. It doesn't take many people dwntwn SC to make it look crowded. Bottom line is a good "capture" rate is not available when 110,000 ascend on the town for a day. By comparison I saw that the Arts fest attracts 125,000 over 4 days.
the last time I went to a game my family and I walked around downtown for a couple hours before going back to tailgate. The lines at family clothes line and other places were out the door. So what I’m saying is the amount of money as a total for 7 home football games has to be more than 87 million from what I physically saw.
 

republion

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I’d love to see them build a brand new stadium with luxury boxes bigger seats more amenities and hold about 95K. But I also love going back to that stadium as is as it makes me feel 18 again. My issue with a brand new stadium is where are they going to put it and maintain the ability for students to walk to the game with out changing lots of infrastructure.
From a space stand point, it’s an easy fix that will cause a little bit of a parking headache for 2 years. You knock down Bryce Jordan Center and utilize that space as well as the soccer fields to build a new football stadium, while still using The Beave to play games until the new stadium is done. Basketball can go back to Rec Hall until a new place can be built, which can be done once they raze The Beave. Soccer can be played anywhere, even in The Beave, if necessary, until they get their space back by razing The Beave.
 
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Ian

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The entire east end athletic complex is a pretty nice area to develop an exciting “entertainment complex” including hotel, restaurants, bars, and shops if they apply vision and regional impact to any plan. There are plenty of non PSU sports event opportunities to be held on that footprint that would keep it very busy all year round. It would also be a cutting edge concept for national campus sites lending itself to plenty of outside investment including naming rights. Let’s hope new leadership sees it that way.
 

The Spin Meister

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The entire east end athletic complex is a pretty nice area to develop an exciting “entertainment complex” including hotel, restaurants, bars, and shops if they apply vision and regional impact to any plan. There are plenty of non PSU sports event opportunities to be held on that footprint that would keep it very busy all year round. It would also be a cutting edge concept for national campus sites lending itself to plenty of outside investment including naming rights. Let’s hope new leadership sees it that way.
Interesting idea. With a couple issues to resolve. First it is campus/university property. Would likely need legislative approval for any commercial development. Good luck with that.

And wait for the screaming of town merchants. They have invested millions, even billions, over the decades. Would need toaccommodate them somehow.
 

Ian

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Interesting idea. With a couple issues to resolve. First it is campus/university property. Would likely need legislative approval for any commercial development. Good luck with that.

And wait for the screaming of town merchants. They have invested millions, even billions, over the decades. Would need toaccommodate them somehow.
No worries about Pa. legislature. If you build it, they will come. Question is are there any visionaries out there?

Downtown cannot absorb most of what happens now. It’s a small town built for students. More infrastructure is needed to support current events let alone more. A recent economic impact study was done and football generated $87m annually for 7+ weekends. That’s $10-12m per weekend and is less than $150 per actual visitor. Most people blow in and blow out!
 

PAgeologist

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From a space stand point, it’s an easy fix that will cause a little bit of a parking headache for 2 years. You knock down Bryce Jordan Center and utilize that space as well as the soccer fields to build a new football stadium, while still using The Beave to play games until the new stadium is done. Basketball can go back to Rec Hall until a new place can be built, which can be done once they raze The Beave. Soccer can be played anywhere, even in The Beave, if necessary, until they get their space back by razing The Beave.
Why knock down Bryce Jordan? Plenty of space right across Porter Road near the baseball field if a new stadium is to be built. It keeps the stadium close, but gives space to move 100k people in and out. Also doesn't disrupt any other sports.

Once the Beave is knocked down, that area can replace parking that was lost. Or used to build something else if needed.
 

psu1969a

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Anybody notice the recent release of an economic impact study that claimed football generated $87m a season in visitor spend. Thats less than $150 per visitor. That’s a huge total but not as much as others because the community cannot absorb all those people. Most blow in and out without dropping a dime except at the stadium. Reduce the capacity to 90k at most and really make the experience superior. Including visiting HV. Besides future gens aren’t going to be flocking to CFB games like they have in the past.
There was a detailed survey where we recorded all of our expenses: what we spent and where. This was probably 25 years ago and the amount generated was over 100+ million in Centre County.
 

republion

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Why knock down Bryce Jordan? Plenty of space right across Porter Road near the baseball field if a new stadium is to be built. It keeps the stadium close, but gives space to move 100k people in and out. Also doesn't disrupt any other sports.

Once the Beave is knocked down, that area can replace parking that was lost. Or used to build something else if needed.
Because from everything I’ve read and heard, BJC is an unworthy crap hole that was not very well thought out for it’s purpose of being a basketball arena. Build something better.
 
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The Spin Meister

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No worries about Pa. legislature. If you build it, they will come. Question is are there any visionaries out there?

Downtown cannot absorb most of what happens now. It’s a small town built for students. More infrastructure is needed to support current events let alone more. A recent economic impact study was done and football generated $87m annually for 7+ weekends. That’s $10-12m per weekend and is less than $150 per actual visitor. Most people blow in and blow out!
And once the new art museum is built we will need massive facilities to handle those crowds!😉
 

PAgeologist

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Because from everything I’ve read and heard, BJC is an unworthy crap hole that was not very well thought out for it’s purpose of being a basketball arena. Build something better.
I've only been in there for a concert, so I can't agree or disagree with that. I was planning on going to the BIG wrestling tournament a couple years ago, but fans weren't allowed cause of Covid.
 
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IANit

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Tough question. First one needs to anticipate future revenues. And I fear that 15-20 years from now college football as we know it will not exist. The biggest issue is falling student enrollments as kids go to community colleges and even more so, everything goes online. Why go to college for $40,000 a year plus room and board when you can get a comparable degree online? Or just take the first two years online then attend a type of finishing school for hands on learning. Or even start work and get paid while earning a bachelor degree.

It is very hard to see the massive universities we currently have managing to maintain the status quo. Today’s kids live in their cell phones and rarely have eye contact or an audible discussion. They will be far more comfortable learning online instead facing a stuffing, demanding professor.

Very hard to commit to hundreds of million of dollars for improvements. And with the portal, free agency, early withdrawals by super stars, NIL issues, again population, apathy of younger generations, and more., it easy to see fans opting to stay home or not even follow football.

With these considerations, I would upgrade concessions and restrooms, cut capacity by ten grand to give more space to our ever expanding butts, and add multi use facilities like conference rooms, class rooms, admin offices, and more. There is a ton of wasted space in the stadium super structure. Need to diversify its income base because football alone won’t cut it in the future,
I think the idea of online college sounds great. But after seeing what happened with a lot of students during the Covid year or year and half, I'm not so sure it will have the impact you think any time soon. Most students aren't motivated enough or confident enough to learn that way effectively. Online classes aren't necessarily any easier - good ones are going to be of comparable difficulty, and maybe even have the same professors, just not in person.

I believe large state universities and elite private universities will continue to thrive for the foreseeable future, long enough of a horizon that it's not relevant to decision making for Beaver Stadium. Young kids still want that experience, and parents who had it also continue to support it, for the most part. For motivated students who aren't worried about the traditional experience, or don't like what it's turned into, online can work. In my view, private universities that don't have something to distinguish themselves or state schools that don't provide enough bang for the buck will see themselves shrink or go away.
 
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The Spin Meister

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I think the idea of online college sounds great. But after seeing what happened with a lot of students during the Covid year or year and half, I'm not so sure it will have the impact you think any time soon. Most students aren't motivated enough or confident enough to learn that way effectively. Online classes aren't necessarily any easier - good ones are going to be of comparable difficulty, and maybe even have the same professors, just not in person.

I believe large state universities and elite private universities will continue to thrive for the foreseeable future, long enough of a horizon that it's not relevant to decision making for Beaver Stadium. Young kids still want that experience, and parents who had it also continue to support it, for the most part. For motivated students who aren't worried about the traditional experience, or don't like what it's turned into, online can work. In my view, private universities that don't have something to distinguish themselves or state schools that don't provide enough bang for the buck will see themselves shrink or go away.
Online will have a dramatic impact. First reason, kids can take several courses online that are in the easy category. And several majors could go 80-90% online. History, social,sciences, literature, education, lots more. Say about a quarter of classes go online. Maybe as much as one half.

If even 20% go online that is a substantial drop in students and will impact the entire system. You will also have increasing competition from community colleges and other options.

I can see where soon companies will hire promising students to work part time while going to school,online. They could monitor their online activity to insure honesty and effort. In this time of a shortage of employees this would be a great way to get good quality employees and get them the education and training your business needs.

Some serious changes acoming.
 

IANit

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Online will have a dramatic impact. First reason, kids can take several courses online that are in the easy category. And several majors could go 80-90% online. History, social,sciences, literature, education, lots more. Say about a quarter of classes go online. Maybe as much as one half.

If even 20% go online that is a substantial drop in students and will impact the entire system. You will also have increasing competition from community colleges and other options.

I can see where soon companies will hire promising students to work part time while going to school,online. They could monitor their online activity to insure honesty and effort. In this time of a shortage of employees this would be a great way to get good quality employees and get them the education and training your business needs.

Some serious changes acoming.
Sure, it will have an impact. But I doubt the kids who want and are able to go to University Park (or even better schools, as much as I loved my time at PSU) and can swing it are going to want to go mostly online or go to community college.
 

The Spin Meister

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Sure, it will have an impact. But I doubt the kids who want and are able to go to University Park (or even better schools, as much as I loved my time at PSU) and can swing it are going to want to go mostly online or go to community college.
But they can take an entire year online and save big bucs. Some will take two years. A few will take it all online. Adds up.
 

IANit

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But they can take an entire year online and save big bucs. Some will take two years. A few will take it all online. Adds up.
True, but they've had that type of option for a while. There's CLEP, AP and at PSU the World Campus used to be significantly cheaper than in-person options. On-line classes (at the same cost as in-person) are more common now even for full-time, on-campus students, but I don't think it's yet reached the point where schools will shut down. Maybe as technology improves that will change. At this point, the in-person experience is still generally better. If it gets to the point where school is 100 percent online, then the size of Beaver Stadium or cost of construction isn't going to matter. You kind of have to make decisions like the status quo is going to continue, or believe that if it changes you will somehow change with it. If not, just do nothing, because no one has a crystal ball.
 

LongJakk

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They screwed up game day by building the BJC, Pegula & Medlar in prime tailgating space. Parking in cow pastures a half mile or more away from the stadium that you can't even see ruins it. Actual stadium improvement would be to replicate the east side suites on the west side along with media area and expanding the concourses depth for more bathrooms and concessions.
 

Lion84

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my psu degree and other degrees were very important to me, but, I have also taken online courses and see how we have a dysfunctional system that runs on intangibles (like the name of where you went to school)

I think companies should just start hiring kids out of high school and have them take courses to learn things when they need to know them. of course, that never needs to end and can continue for your whole career. this would be better for everyone, including employees who would start building their lives sooner

the system of going to college full-time from 18-22 has no reason to exist anymore, and probably there never really was any justification for that being the right way to do things
I guess you never saw Animal House or Old School - plenty of reasons to go to College or were you talking about an education or some other unimportant reason to go to college.
 

NICNEM_PSU80

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Attendance has been dropping across the board for college football for years. We have been fortunate to keep our attendance level relatively high. The two major factors are the won loss level and the distance people have to travel because we don't have sufficient hotel rooms to stay the weekend.

A tear down and new construction process in a declining market is a difficult investment to justify. People keep saying that the steel is getting close to 100 years old. Steel isn't the problem if it is well maintained which it has been. I am more worried about the concrete cantilever portions of the stadium although a bit of reinforcement will likely resolve that issue.

The challenge is what is the return on the investment. If we keep winning 10 of 13 games we will likely have average attendance around the 105 k level. So keep winning to keep the stadium full. Second increase your demographic footprint by adding a substantial amount of RV parking to compensate for all those spaces foolishly taken away by Sandy. I understand the need for wider slips for a portion of the alumni but we need to keep the volume up as well.

Straighten out orchard as it intersects with Fox Hollow and get rid of the storage huts add some landscaping and a pile of overnight RV spots. Add some more across the street until you have as many of a bit more RV spaces. Have three sizes of RV spots- 1/3 new big spots, 1/3 1.5x old spots and 1/3 1.25x old spots.

An old study shows that every 5 miles (or 5 minutes of car ride) of distance drops the market penetration by 1 %. Widen Park Ave to create better and continuous flow to 99/220/322 and add ramps at the Fox Hollow underpass of 322 and you will shorten the exiting time by 30 minutes and add 30 miles to your market penetration.

Adding bathrooms and concessions especially in the steel portion of the stadium is an easy fix. Add technology to the concessions and you will double the volume and profit of the concessions and leave time for us old guys to take a leak.

The big dollars come in by tearing down the press box and putting in a similar new section as across the field buy larger- 10,000 seats larger replacing the lost seats below when you widen the existing seats and replacing the aluminum benches with new bench back seating.

My guess is that you can do the above for 1/10th of a new stadium which will cost somewhere between $2.5 to 3 billion. There is no way you will get back that size of investment over 40 years of life.
 

mcpat

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Happy to hear they’re addressing this. I read it was pretty dangerous.

I also think someone is having a good laugh that their “vomitories” contribution made it into the final announcement.
 

The Spin Meister

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True, but they've had that type of option for a while. There's CLEP, AP and at PSU the World Campus used to be significantly cheaper than in-person options. On-line classes (at the same cost as in-person) are more common now even for full-time, on-campus students, but I don't think it's yet reached the point where schools will shut down. Maybe as technology improves that will change. At this point, the in-person experience is still generally better. If it gets to the point where school is 100 percent online, then the size of Beaver Stadium or cost of construction isn't going to matter. You kind of have to make decisions like the status quo is going to continue, or believe that if it changes you will somehow change with it. If not, just do nothing, because no one has a crystal ball.
Just heard a report on the radio that, because of ongoing labor shortages, Fidelity is going to hire 10,000 kids out of high school and start on the Jin training and give them full tuition. Working full time while attending college will mean a lot of that will be online.

If successful, how long before other start si liar programs?
 

The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
27,000
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An altered state
Attendance has been dropping across the board for college football for years. We have been fortunate to keep our attendance level relatively high. The two major factors are the won loss level and the distance people have to travel because we don't have sufficient hotel rooms to stay the weekend.

A tear down and new construction process in a declining market is a difficult investment to justify. People keep saying that the steel is getting close to 100 years old. Steel isn't the problem if it is well maintained which it has been. I am more worried about the concrete cantilever portions of the stadium although a bit of reinforcement will likely resolve that issue.

The challenge is what is the return on the investment. If we keep winning 10 of 13 games we will likely have average attendance around the 105 k level. So keep winning to keep the stadium full. Second increase your demographic footprint by adding a substantial amount of RV parking to compensate for all those spaces foolishly taken away by Sandy. I understand the need for wider slips for a portion of the alumni but we need to keep the volume up as well.

Straighten out orchard as it intersects with Fox Hollow and get rid of the storage huts add some landscaping and a pile of overnight RV spots. Add some more across the street until you have as many of a bit more RV spaces. Have three sizes of RV spots- 1/3 new big spots, 1/3 1.5x old spots and 1/3 1.25x old spots.

An old study shows that every 5 miles (or 5 minutes of car ride) of distance drops the market penetration by 1 %. Widen Park Ave to create better and continuous flow to 99/220/322 and add ramps at the Fox Hollow underpass of 322 and you will shorten the exiting time by 30 minutes and add 30 miles to your market penetration.

Adding bathrooms and concessions especially in the steel portion of the stadium is an easy fix. Add technology to the concessions and you will double the volume and profit of the concessions and leave time for us old guys to take a leak.

The big dollars come in by tearing down the press box and putting in a similar new section as across the field buy larger- 10,000 seats larger replacing the lost seats below when you widen the existing seats and replacing the aluminum benches with new bench back seating.

My guess is that you can do the above for 1/10th of a new stadium which will cost somewhere between $2.5 to 3 billion. There is no way you will get back that size of investment over 40 years of life.
Some interesting ideas there.
 

IANit

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Just heard a report on the radio that, because of ongoing labor shortages, Fidelity is going to hire 10,000 kids out of high school and start on the Jin training and give them full tuition. Working full time while attending college will mean a lot of that will be online.

If successful, how long before other start si liar programs?
On the Jin training, si liar? Probably auto-corrected by your phone. That's probably the quality we can expect from many of these kids and their online degrees.
 
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IANit

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On the Jin training, si liar? Probably auto-corrected by your phone. That's probably the quality we can expect from many of these kids and their online degrees.
I wonder how the On the Jin training compares to the On the Rolling Rock and Yuengling Lager training I received at Penn State?