The narrative constructed by Louis Freeh was that PSU FB

[demlion]

had grown into such a colossus, economically and politically, that it was able to cover up criminal activity by Jerry Sandusky for years and years.

That narrative was false, but the truth is in some ways even worse. PSU itself is that colossus. The BoT had at least as much knowledge of Jerry's proclivities as Joe did, and understood the implications better. And the BoT is protected by powerful political allies, even today. Yudichak's bill will re-orient some of the power from SC to Harrisburg, and they will fight that with all they've got. Still not a word from Jake Corman, by the way, on whether he supports the bill. Is Jake going to protect them?

The recent BS from the PSAA is just astonishing. The level of arrogance and entitlement is off the charts. Williams is a file clerk in a top level position, and WAYYY too defensive to head up an organization of this size. Why is he there? Because he played the PSU inside game for a lot of years and got to the top.

The usual response of a bureaucracy to attacks from without is to increase staff. Witness the growth of the AD's staff in the last couple years. They are bringing in less money, and paying out huge fines, and seeing their revenue docked, and the response is to pile on more employees to further reduce the amount of funds available to run sports programs.

The AA reminds me of my impression of some of the student government "leaders" I shared the campus with in the late 70s. The ones I knew were resume building apple polishers. They no more gave a damn about the issues I cared about than Roger Williams cares about your concerns today.

To some extent, the outside critics of PSU, who have long lambasted PSU for arrogance, and whom I have long dismissed as jealous fools, were right. Now we get that arrogant BS turned on us and we can see it for what it is.

It makes me sick. They have driven a number of us away. If this cannot be fixed with dramatic change in how the AA and BoT operate, then I am likely done with PSU altogether.
This post was edited on 4/16 9:05 AM by demlion

 

[lionlurker]

Based on what we have seen so far,

I've come to the conclusion that it will take either a superhuman effort by an incredibly adept person or persons, or else some amazing information to come out of the Paterno legal digging, to make any difference at all. To an outsider it would appear that the BOT defensive efforts are very successful, and have significant backing by powerful people. There seems to be little impetus for any change within either state government, faculty/administration, or from Old Main.

It's disappointing, but we've learned that the PSU we thought existed, was a myth.

 

[bdgan]

Will the Paterno case ever go to trial?

That might be the best chance to "correct" some of Freeh's assumptions.

The C/S/S trails could help a little if they ever go to trial. I'm sure Curley would explain his "after speaking to Joe" e-mail. Curley surely won't say that Joe convinced him not to report to the agencies because that would incriminate him. He'll probably say that MM only told him about horseplay and that he thought it would be fair to JS to talk to him face to face about how that could be seen as inappropriate. The haters won't believe him but any words supporting Joe's innocence could help modify the opinions of those on the fence.

 

[Hotshoe]

The fact that there are what 86 members on the Alumni Council should explain to everyone why there are such a mess.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Madsol]

Not long after everything went down...

I said there were only two things that could bring about the change that is so obviously needed at PSU and bring out the truth of what really happened: 1) political pressure or 2) pressure from big-money alumni. For a time, I was hopeful with #1, especially with the Corman/McCord lawsuit. But then that ended with a whimper rather than a bang and legislation aimed at reforming the BOT seems to be going nowhere fast, even with an ultimate political insider like Jubelier on the board. The Board leadership seems to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and nobody seems to really care. As to #2, I'm afraid that ship has sailed. Or if it hasn't sailed, it's straining to pull away from the dock. So I'm afraid I'm about where you are...just about ready to give up. There is no doubt in my mind that people in power on the board either were personally involved in or were well aware of Sandusky's evil and as such have gone to the extreme lenghts to shine the light on Paterno and the football program. But nobody seems to care.

 

[nittanilyon man1]

The Big thing that has come of all this should be obvious...

to everyone now. Joe Paterno was NOT the most powerful person at Penn State. Penn State it turns out was made up of two factions. A dirty evil cabal that orchestrated (and continues to do so) behind the scenes, and the Joe Paterno faction. The Joe Paterno faction was what the public saw and it was good and stood for the right things. It was a positive PR "image". It was "allowed" to flourish because the hidden, evil cabal allowed it to. It benefitted them so they allowed it. WE all know now that if it had done anything to paint a negative picture of the University or caused the cabal any damage or harm, we would have seen something happen. Granted, Joe had a lot of power and influence (partly due to allies on the board, and a good relationship with the president), but those allies either left or died off leaving him much more vulnerable to what we saw happen. I am sickened by what this University has, and continues to do. Sadly, the opportunity to shed light on the evil darkness seems like it is becoming more and more remote each day, but I am not ready to stop fighting just yet.

 

[demlion]

The tragedy of all this is that


we operate with a full understanding of what a fantastic monument to all that is good and decent in American Higher Education PSU could have been had we only been able to keep it out of the hands of greedy little hustlers like Rodger Williams and Ken Frazier.

Good people made some mistakes in this, but in context they seem almost frivolous compared to the things people like Williams and Frazier and Eckel and Peetz do every day of their lives, on purpose, as a perfect expression of everything they stand for.

Apologies to Hunter S. Thompson.

 

[fairgambit]

Originally posted by demlion:
had grown into such a colossus, economically and politically, that it was able to cover up criminal activity by Jerry Sandusky for years and years.

That narrative was false, but the truth is in some ways even worse. PSU itself is that colossus. The BoT had at least as much knowledge of Jerry's proclivities as Joe did, and understood the implications better. And the BoT is protected by powerful political allies, even today. Yudichak's bill will re-orient some of the power from SC to Harrisburg, and they will fight that with all they've got. Still not a word from Jake Corman, by the way, on whether he supports the bill. Is Jake going to protect them?

The recent BS from the PSAA is just astonishing. The level of arrogance and entitlement is off the charts. Williams is a file clerk in a top level position, and WAYYY too defensive to head up an organization of this size. Why is he there? Because he played the PSU inside game for a lot of years and got to the top.

The usual response of a bureaucracy to attacks from without is to increase staff. Witness the growth of the AD's staff in the last couple years. They are bringing in less money, and paying out huge fines, and seeing their revenue docked, and the response is to pile on more employees to further reduce the amount of funds available to run sports programs.

The AA reminds me of my impression of some of the student government "leaders" I shared the campus with in the late 70s. The ones I knew were resume building apple polishers. They no more gave a damn about the issues I cared about than Roger Williams cares about your concerns today.

To some extent, the outside critics of PSU, who have long lambasted PSU for arrogance, and whom I have long dismissed as jealous fools, were right. Now we get that arrogant BS turned on us and we can see it for what it is.

It makes me sick. They have driven a number of us away. If this cannot be fixed with dramatic change in how the AA and BoT operate, then I am likely done with PSU altogether.
This post was edited on 4/16 9:05 AM by demlion

Well said, dem, and your last sentence reflects my feelings. I have been seriously thinking about simply putting Penn State in my rear view mirror and never looking back. I will always have happy memories of my college years, and the nearly 40 years I held season football tickets, but like you, the current leadership (President, BOT, AD, AA) makes me sick. I have no doubt that were it not for many like minded souls on this Board, I would have walked away by now. I despair that nothing will change in my lifetime, despite the best efforts of Mr. Lubrano, Senator Yudichak, and others. This is literally a day to day thing with me. I may stay the course, or I may wake up tomorrow and turn my back on the whole fetid mess.

 

[richie83]

Dem, Tom, Lurker or anyone else...I am at the point that I think we lost

I think that the bad guys are going to get away with it. Tom, you have all kinds of inside info that I know you can't release. I don't know why, but I think its time to release everything and lets get some info out there. We had/have the feds...who knows if that is even true. We had the Corman suit that shit the bed at the most critical moment. We have always had some kind of hope. We had Lubrano hinting at things. We had MarylandNit doing the same. But as this thing keeps going, we have nothing and are getting crushed. Me and all my family and friends all think its too late.

So can someone PLEASE give me something, anything that can give us some hope.

 

[catalacjack]

Re: Will the Paterno case ever go to trial?

I truly believe that Wick Sollers would have spoken to Curley off the record before he proceeded with the Paternos' trial against the NCAA. He could not chance being in the middle of his trial and Curley going to trial with testimony that would blow the Paternos' lawsuit out of the water.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

It's been a done deal from the beginning. Notice nobody on the ...


BOT ever panicked, ever acquiesed, ever compromised. They knew this was taken care of from their perspective. They had the pols on their side, they still do, and always will. The way this played out was 100% in the bag. Let the reputations of the alumni and the image of the school be obliterated, not our problem. When has Penn State taken any official steps to salve the bitterness and anger of the alumni? When has the university offered a sentence in defense of its own in the face of almost four years of endless hammering by the press? Never. They don't have to, they won. They have taken a knee and are waiting until the clock runs out on the lives of 2 or 3 generations of Penn Staters.

Dem and I had a sidebar here and there and he was always keen to "gnaw their skulls in the sunshine." Maybe there comes a day when you have to realize you're not going to fight city hall. Now he too has tapped out. Can't blame anyone who does.

 

[WDLion]

Give up!

That's what they're counting on. Never give up when you know you're right.

 

[lionlurker]

In retrospect, their lack of panic and fear is indeed telling.

They always knew that they had friends in powerful places. They didn't count on Covey being one of the few honest politicians in the commonwealth, but they got Corman to make an end run around her. Everything else, as of now, is buttoned down and tightened up, and they knew it would be.

The last hope is Sollers and company. Long may they run.

 

[KSLion]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil ...

is that good men do nothing".

Edmund Burke

 

[Evan Ceg]

Re: Give up!

If you joined the PSAA to gain a voice in University governance, you made a mistake. You misunderstood the role of the Penn State Alumni Association (or any other college alumni association). It's to cultivate support for the programs of the University. Any opinions the AA wants to express to the Administration about University policies are purely advisory and are treated by the Administration as such. This should not be news.

Governance is the responsibility of the BoT. Management is the responsibility of Eric Barron and his crew, The PSAA is a management arm of Barron's administration. While I agree that BoT members do not belong on the Alumni Council, any expressions by Roger Williams or others that the PSAA is "independent" from the Administration are just silly.

The person who succeeds Roger Williams is not going to take up the cause of PS4RS and fellow travelers and openly oppose the BoT or the Administration. The proper course would be neutrality and let individual AA members express themselves as they wish.

If you want the University to change course, your argument is with the BoT.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

ugh ...


the process has taken far longer than I anticipated. between C/S/S not yet having gone to trial, the lack of any investigative journalist to take on the task of investigating this, the BOT power bloc doing everything they can to delay the investigation of the Freeh Report, etc., we still have a long way to go before many of the facts come forward. I don't control any of the aforementioned processes, so there's not much I can do to improve the situation.

the alumni-elected trustees seem to be making some headway, though they have to fight for everything. the other process that is likely to be a positive step forward is the Paterno Family et al. lawsuit, though that is going to take some time.

there are several things that are likely to become positive for you, and many fans. Rob Tribeck joining the BOT will be a positive. He will be more of a battler than Adam T was. Gov. Wolf's election is also a positive, at least with regards to the BOT. It will take some time, but his influence will be felt.

As for being too late, that's a tough one to debate in the abstract. In some regards much of the damage that has been done to PSU's reputation is hard to undue. The Nov. 2011 BOT shoulders most of the blame for that. That said, I think a chunk of the damage will, when all is said and done, be undone.

That's all I can provide for now.

Tom

 

[WDLion]

Huh?**

zzzzzzzzzz

 

[Aoshiro]

Re: Give up!

Originally posted by Evan Ceg:
If you joined the PSAA to gain a voice in University governance, you made a mistake. You misunderstood the role of the Penn State Alumni Association (or any other college alumni association). It's to cultivate support for the programs of the University. Any opinions the AA wants to express to the Administration about University policies are purely advisory and are treated by the Administration as such. This should not be news.

Governance is the responsibility of the BoT. Management is the responsibility of Eric Barron and his crew, The PSAA is a management arm of Barron's administration. While I agree that BoT members do not belong on the Alumni Council, any expressions by Roger Williams or others that the PSAA is "independent" from the Administration are just silly.

The person who succeeds Roger Williams is not going to take up the cause of PS4RS and fellow travelers and openly oppose the BoT or the Administration. The proper course would be neutrality and let individual AA members express themselves as they wish.

If you want the University to change course, your argument is with the BoT.

Yes, and the Penn State Alumni Association now controls one of those seats. If it didn't want to get dragged into this fight, it shouldn't have asked for that seat.

 

[Aoshiro]

Re: It's been a done deal from the beginning. Notice nobody on the ...

Originally posted by Victor E. Bell:

BOT ever panicked, ever acquiesed, ever compromised. They knew this was taken care of from their perspective. They had the pols on their side, they still do, and always will. The way this played out was 100% in the bag. Let the reputations of the alumni and the image of the school be obliterated, not our problem. When has Penn State taken any official steps to salve the bitterness and anger of the alumni? When has the university offered a sentence in defense of its own in the face of almost four years of endless hammering by the press? Never. They don't have to, they won. They have taken a knee and are waiting until the clock runs out on the lives of 2 or 3 generations of Penn Staters.

Dem and I had a sidebar here and there and he was always keen to "gnaw their skulls in the sunshine." Maybe there comes a day when you have to realize you're not going to fight city hall. Now he too has tapped out. Can't blame anyone who does.

It took a decade to expose the bad cops at Hillsborough. If you know your cause is just, you should NEVER give up.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Couldn't you play "deepthoat" for some interested investigative jounalist?

I find it hard to believe that someone who loves Penn State as much as you do wouldn't do whatever they could to get the information in the right hands.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Re: It's been a done deal from the beginning. Notice nobody on the ...

Originally posted by Aoshiro:


It took a decade to expose the bad cops at Hillsborough. If you know your cause is just, you should NEVER give up.

Yes but nobody died here. There's not the same sense of urgency, there's not the same sense of loss. The victims have been paid. The guy who did it is locked up. The only thing that died was Penn State's reputation and there aren't even enough Penn Staters who give a flying crap about that, let alone anybody else from outside.

 

[demlion]

I am still keen to gnaw their skulls in the sunshine. I ain't throwing in


the towel just yet, VEB. But it hurts to constantly not only be reminded of how wired they have this, but of new ways we did not even know about in which they have it wired.

I still believe that the Paterno lawsuit could force the kind of top-to-bottom reappraisal we want to see, and if it turns up the right information there will be nothing these corporate swells and their political shills can do to stop it.

I guess I am less convinced that anything from INSIDE PSU or the commonwealth can effect that reappraisal.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Re: ugh ...

Originally posted by Tom McAndrew:

Gov. Wolf's election is also a positive, at least with regards to the BOT. It will take some time, but his influence will be felt.

Seeing will be believing. He could have cleaned house of the governor appointees but chose not to do so. And how nice would Dinniman looked on the PSU BOT rather than Lincoln's?

 

[WeR0206]

Re: Give up!

Originally posted by WDLion:
That's what they're counting on. Never give up when you know you're right.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Us getting frustrated and giving up is EXACTLY what these scoundrels and charlatans want. Let's not give them the satisfaction!

To help restore spirits I leave you with the Bluto Animal house speech (after Dean Wormer kicked them all out of school) as I think it has a lot of parallels to our situation:

Nothing is over until WE decide it is!!

 

[delcoLion]

It's a shame the way things turned out, the only approach...


... when you were taking the lead was the scorched earth tactic of withholding contributions, boycott of BoT businesses, and as much political action as possible. A total shutdown of any and all alumni support.

Too late for any of that now. The public has made up its mind and PSU will never have the respect it once did. Even favorable outcomes in the trials will make very little difference with public opinion.

Any evidence or outcome that undermines the Freeh report will make us feel better but the damage it caused is, IMHO, irreparable. So I hope Joe's family can get a bunch of $$$ from the rat-bastiges, since that's the only thing they understand, apparently.

 

[nits74]

Re: It's a shame the way things turned out, the only approach...

The public has made up its mind and PSU will never have the respect it once did.[/B]

As Dem so eloquently noted, perhaps Penn State doesn't deserve respect, albeit for different reasons than the current public narrative.

 

[PaRanger]

I am sorry..........I will NOT let these dishonorable people continue to distort history and continue to hurt Penn State's reputation...........YES, they have $$$$$$$ and that means they have power............BUT...........They do NOT have righteousness, nor do they have GOOD on their side.........I truly believe that.........

I will fight until I breathe no more for what is right!!! I ask you all to stay the course.......which is not an easy one......out last those rat ba$tards.............Because in the end........GOOD will conquer evil. Keep up the fight.............It is worth it even when it does not feel like it is.............IT is.

To me God sees all things........and these people are selfish, cruel and corrupt!

This post was edited on 4/16 12:46 PM by PaRanger

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Re: It's a shame the way things turned out, the only approach...

Originally posted by delcoLion:

... when you were taking the lead was the scorched earth tactic of withholding contributions, boycott of BoT businesses, and as much political action as possible. A total shutdown of any and all alumni support.

PS4RS could have made this happen but decided not to for some unknown reason. At one point they started to go after one trustee (Peetz) with a letter writing campaign but it was abandoned almost immediately. Missed opportunity.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

The Thornburg piece today in the other thread is a ray of sunshine. *


f

 

[Aoshiro]

Re: It's been a done deal from the beginning. Notice nobody on the ...

Originally posted by Victor E. Bell:

Originally posted by Aoshiro:It took a decade to expose the bad cops at Hillsborough. If you know your cause is just, you should NEVER give up.

Yes but nobody died here. There's not the same sense of urgency, there's not the same sense of loss. The victims have been paid. The guy who did it is locked up. The only thing that died was Penn State's reputation and there aren't even enough Penn Staters who give a flying crap about that, let alone anybody else from outside.

There are clearly thousands of people who do care, or PS4RS wouldn't be able to win elections.

 

[demlion]

Yes it is.*

&*

 

[Ceasar]

If you want to win, dig in for the long haul

One of the problems I see is a lack of patience among all of us who want the full truth to come out. But we need to understand it will take a while and potentially a very long while. If and when we control a majority on the BOT, then that majority can release everything and anything they want. When will that be? Who knows.
Similarly, who knows how long until the Paterno suit brings forth the release of new information; when the CSS chrages are dismissed or there is an acquital to free them up to talk.
So if one has a timeline for victory, for example, it must occur in the next year, two years, three years... I would respectfully suggest that is the wrong approach. Much like the war on terror or Vietnam, if you are not prepared to stay engaged in the fight for the long haul you can forget about ever winning because the opposition will never tire of concealing what they do not want us to know.

 

[demlion]

if you joined the AA to watch it presume to take the wrong side

in the most important institutional fight in PSU's long history, then you came to the right place. Having them use your donations to further the "move on" narrative ought to really make you happy.

The problem is, lots of people who paid dues to the organization did NOT authorize Williams to be a BoT lickspittle during a time when the reputation of the University, the essential truth of what it is to be an alum, was being re-organized to fit the "BoT did nothing wrong" narrative.

Yet Roger was that lickspittle, AND he wants a seat on the Board as well. You cannot actually believe that the AA has been neutral in this, can you?

If governance is no concern of the AA, then why is roger seeking a seat? I am astonished that you fail; to concede the hypocrisy in this.
This post was edited on 4/16 12:18 PM by demlion

 

[Class of 67]

Make no mistake, the pressure from frustrated supporters caused Peetz to r.

All of us need to keep this battle alive. I'm not as detailed informed, as capable of keeping all the facts mentally organized, or as able to eloquently state the issues as others, but I know which side of the fight I have chosen to follow. I depend on the leaders on the side of truth like PS4RS, the alumni trustees, and individuals too numerous to mention (e.g., Bill Levinson, Demlion, Ryan Bagwell). I hope none throw in the towel.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Re: Make no mistake, the pressure from frustrated supporters caused Peetz to r.

When they stick me 6 feet under...I will stop fighting. But I will go thru the Pearly Gates and pass a list of names to St Pete. Tell him to come and get me when these scumbags are on the way up....just to smile as St Pete tells them to turn and head the other way...

 

[bjf1984]

It has been a long time....and - at best - will be quite a while longer.


That said......."patience" is not a virtue in this instance. "Patience" will kill the truth.

Everyone needs to be one hell of a lot less patient. That doesn't mean victory will happen tomorrow, or next month, or next year.......but the less "patient" we are - and the more aggressive, outspoken, and demanding we are, the better.

Patience = Sucks (and assures the truth NEVER comes out)

Persistence = Good (and is absolutely necessary if the truth, and this University, has any hope at all)
This post was edited on 4/16 6:19 PM by bjf1984

 

[PSU Proud]

demlion, don't be discouraged. As Mr. McAndrew said it is taking longer than some expected to get to the truth. I look at the trials delay, the NCAA capitulation and the coming discovery and sworn testimony as a vehicle to the eventual full disclosure. Obviously, to me, the dirt, the guilt, residing within the BoT, Louis Freeh, the NCAA is much worse than I first thought. Obviously the NCAA hoped their giving back most of what they took away would stop the 'Joebots' from pursuing the truth, and we must not let that happen.

Why do you all think there have been no trials, no books written, no movies made yet? I think it is because most people know that the whole story isn't out yet.

I wouldn't give John Surma's troubles 'to a monkey on a rock'.

Alumni Association, I for one life member want you to carry on.




"The silent colossal National Lie that is the support and confederate of all the tyrannies and shams and inequalities and unfairness that afflict the peoples - that is the one to throw bricks and sermons at."[/I] - Mark Twain

 

[NICNEM_PSU80]

Re: Give up!

Originally posted by WeR0206:

Originally posted by WDLion:
That's what they're counting on. Never give up when you know you're right.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Us getting frustrated and giving up is EXACTLY what these scoundrels and charlatans want. Let's not give them the satisfaction!

To help restore spirits I leave you with the Bluto Animal house speech (after Dean Wormer kicked them all out of school) as I think it has a lot of parallels to our situation:

Nothing is over until WE decide it is!!

Never give up never! We should do exactly what they don't want us to do and that is to never give up! We will set the record straight. Once the CSS trials, Paterno and Spaniers suit against Freeh is done then we sue the bastards on the 2011 BoT for abandoning their fiduciary.

 

[Southeastern PA Buck]

Never Give up! Endeavor to persevere

That's what Joe would want us to do

 

[nits74]

Re: It has been a long time....and - at best - will be quite a while longer.

Well said. F' patience at this point. It will lead nowhere. All of this stuff about things in the works; so and so knows the truth and can't say anything "just yet", and on and on. Where has the withholding of information led to? Guess what, the ship has long since sailed as far as public perception. Hardly anyone outside of the PSU community cares anymore. And many of PSU alums don't either. By the time the truth comes out (if ever) it will be a mere blip on the radar. Those who know or purport to know the truth and have remained silent have done a gross disservice.