The New C/S/S "Smoking Gun"?

[colt21]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

JR is supposed to do his job
His job has nothing to do with "nothing untoward happened"
What is so hard to understand
He was told
They have protocols
They didn't follow them

 

[colt21]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

You are totally lost on this

You are coming from the PSU perspective and not the proper perspective - TSM

Whatever he did he did under the guise of TSM
Besides the legal angle, The 98 incident was investigated as a CHILD-LINE perspective-e.g. (TSM perspective)

They knew about 98 because you cannot do a CHILDLINE investigation without the charity knowing about it

You cannot come to an "UNFOUNDED" conclusion without reporting it TO THE CHARITY

Take off your Anti-PSU glasses and put on your TSM glasses and maybe, just maybe, you would see the light

Further, we KNOW 2001 made it to JR - his response was totally inappropriate
We know BHs response was totally inappropriate

What else do you need man to look at this from the correct perspective ??

 

[BBG65]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

First off, Shultz was not the police commissioner. He was a VP of Business and finance that several departments reported to, including athletics, the physical plant and the UP PD.
Second, not only did PSU not have anything to do with the 98 incident, legally, they shouldn't have even known about it. Police are not allowed to make public these type of investigations, unless charges are filed, in order to protect the reputation of the suspect.

 

[Zenophile]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

The 1998 case was quite a long time ago. Can you refresh my memory about what happened then?

 

[Zenophile]

You are totally lost on this

You are coming from the PSU perspective and not the proper perspective - TSM

Whatever he did he did under the guise of TSM
Besides the legal angle, The 98 incident was investigated as a CHILD-LINE perspective-e.g. (TSM perspective)

They knew about 98 because you cannot do a CHILDLINE investigation without the charity knowing about it

You cannot come to an "UNFOUNDED" conclusion without reporting it TO THE CHARITY

Take off your Anti-PSU glasses and put on your TSM glasses and maybe, just maybe, you would see the light

Further, we KNOW 2001 made it to JR - his response was totally inappropriate
We know BHs response was totally inappropriate

What else do you need man to look at this from the correct perspective ??

Unfortunately his retainer doesn't cover anti-TSM glasses.

 

[CDW3333]

The 1998 case was quite a long time ago. Can you refresh my memory about what happened then?

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[wensilver]

Wendy, I agree with everything you say, except for the part about putting McQueary on the stand. I don't see anyway to not do that. His embellishments are the main reason this whole mess happened.

My theory all along is that the AG didn't need Mike.

So why even put him on the stand and just confuse the issue any more with these jurors. It's beating a dead horse. Don't drag that carcass into the courtroom.

There is already court testimony by others that supports the PSU3 & their actions.

Let these regular Jane & John taxpayers know that the AG ruined Mike's life over an incident that regular folks in a courtroom years ago didn't find credible. These Jane & John taxpayers are paying for this farce.

I'd throw this shit all right back at the AG. That office already has an image problem as far as us average folks out here are concerned.

 

[bdgan]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

You're in denial to think that there's no middle ground between innocent horsing around and sexual assault. I would hope something like that never happens to my kids but I would certainly see a big difference between a grown man rubbing up against my kid naked and having anal sex with him.

• I'm pretty sure that TSM got wind of the 1998 situation
• We know that JS got his victims came from TSM
  
• Coincidentally JS was moved to consultant status around 2001
  
• Curley reported what MM said to Raykovitz in 2001
• TSM stopped paying JS in 2009 at the same time they told him to stop camping out with boys.
• Genovese was advised to resign from TSM because of the JS rumors.
• TSM was in business of dealing with young children. Next to the DPW they should have seen red flags before anybody else.

Yet in your mind TSM didn't have a reason to suspect anything. Same with John McQueary & Dranov. Only a football coach and administrators had that knowledge and expertise.

Are you serious?

 

[Zenophile]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

And who made the unforgivable decision not to prosecute that?

 

[colt21]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

Investigated by LE (NOT PSU) - conclusion = no legal charges filed
Investigated by DPW (NOT PSU) - conclusion = Unfounded (meaning it basically did NOT happen in the eyes of DPW

What is your point?

 

[getmyjive11]

I just find it very amusing that the same people claiming that MM and Paterno told C/S about "horseplay" are now saying that TC told JR about suspected CSA. Just fantastic stuff.

 

[Stufftodo]

No my first two statements are not false
that being said I do not doubt things had nothing to do with and go way beyond the football program

but again, my statements are most certainly not false-

TC was NOT a mandated reporter at the time (not now either but different law and for different reasons
TSM/JR were mandatory reporters

please tell me how that 100% true fact (not opinion) is false ?

You can kep saying that, but a judge and jury won't believe it.

 

[wensilver]

And there's the rub:

IF we see a trial (and we will have that answered soon enough):

All that "stuff" that you - - or I - - or any other intelligent human being - - would bring up during the trial?

All THAT "stuff"?


What's the chances that "His Honor" Boccabella would even consider - for a minute - allowing any of THAT "stuff" to be brought up in front of a jury?


I'm thinking the % chances of THAT happening are approximately equal to "i-squared + 1"

_______________


Now, the chances that we see YET ANOTHER MikeM vs CS Circle-Jerk?
With a lot of irrelevant, worthless, obtuse, emotional, obfuscating bullshit piled on top?

I'd put those odds at about - with rounding - 100%


God bless the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania!

I know.

Sigh.

 

[lionlurker]

The more I listen to these idiots spew their talking points, the more I realize that they have nothing.

I find it quite comforting.

 

[WeR0206]

There are only two alternatives. Horseplay or something of a sexual nature. Nobody has testified to a third (although Schultz testified to both).

Also, the Penn State police commissioner (Schultz) had already looked into this and concluded that nothing untoward had happened, so what is Raykovitz supposed to do? Is he supposed to read Curley's mind and realize that even though Penn State concluded that nothing had happened and that it was a case of horseplay it was something else?

And this brings up something else. Where is the evidence that TSM was on notice that Sandusky was a pedophile. After 51/2 years why hasn't any employee or volunteer come forward to say TSM knew? Where's the equivalent of McQueary, the janitor, the second janitor (from 2005) and the Penn State cops (i.e relatively low level)? Where's the equivalent of Paterno (high level). Where is the equivalent of #6's mother (a complaining parent)? Or number 6's psychologist (a professional). And where are the emails implicating TSM?

If PSU was so concerned that TSM know about horseplay in the shower in 2001, why didn't they report '98 where a professional opined that Sandusky was a probable pedophile?

Are you serious?

This entire post is complete utter garbage.

The thing you can't seem to wrap your pea brain around is this: it doesn't matter if TC told JR that they looked into it and found nothing but due to the circumstances they revoked JS' guest privileges, once JR was informed of an incident that involved JS, TSM had to do their own due dilgence and follow internal policy and mandatory reporting laws.

Also perhaps there are some incriminating emails by TSM folks but well never know bc they were allowed to shred/destroy God knows what and no one really investigated them. TSM told the state that all JS records were "missing", and yet the state thought nothing of it, how convenient.

Btw, PSU did report 98 to CYS so I have no idea wtf you are talking about in that respect. By law theres no way CYS was made aware but TSM wasn't. If the law wasn't followed in '98 then maybe the state needs to charge those folks with EWOC instead of CSS?

 

[colt21]

You can kep saying that, but a judge and jury won't believe it.

If they don't that would just substantiate the level of corruption in this state because it is undeniable

 

[Royal_Coaster]

I just find it very amusing that the same people claiming that MM and Paterno told C/S about "horseplay" are now saying that TC told JR about suspected CSA. Just fantastic stuff.

Really? What I find amusing are the people who think that McQueary told Curley and Schultz that Jerry Sandusky was bringing kids from every elementary school in Centre County by the busload to the Lasch Building to anally rape them, and Curley gave Raykovitz a vague watered down report about Jerry and some kid in a building engaging in some good natured horseplay.

 

[colt21]

I just find it very amusing that the same people claiming that MM and Paterno told C/S about "horseplay" are now saying that TC told JR about suspected CSA. Just fantastic stuff.

I find it amusing that you continue to believe it actually matters what TC told JR - it does not
It was reported to him - he did not follow proper DPW protocols

 

[elvis63]

The more I listen to these idiots spew their talking points, the more I realize that they have nothing.

I find it quite comforting.

You could not be more wrong, give it a week or two and this is you:



Remember, I told you so.

 

[lionlurker]

Ah, it's change of shift time.

 

[BBG65]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

wrong again.

 

[Stufftodo]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

While Sandusky was convicted of several crimes from 2001, including Unlawful Contact With a Minor (a felony), he was not convicted of Involuntary Deviant Sexual Intercourse (which would have been the rape).

 

[roswelllion]

C'mon "one or the other" with no other choice? How about "inappropriate behavior that we are uncomfortable with" - hence JR's comment back to to Tim about "if you are telling me he is a ped you are crazy" - You want to explain how JR could have made that comment with just a horseplay story.or do nothing with a "sexual nature" comment?

So no state agency reported to TSM about the 98 incident? If they did or should have then TSM knew. If they didn't and decided it was not worthy of notifying TSM why should TC and GS be on "alert" when clearly the experts thought it was nothing worth reporting.

One of the amazing things about this ordeal is how JS fooled TSM, CYS, DPW PSP for years and no one thinks anything about it and yet TC and GS should have been aware and tuned in to everything. Hindsight is both 20/20 and often blind to real time observations.

 

[roswelllion]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

And yet unfounded by authorities who investigated. And you expect TC and GS to be able to sort that stuff out but give TSM a pass. You are ridiculous.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I find it sad that many have turned this into a game, a situation of "I win, you lose!". Really despicable no matter which side of the competition you are on. This whole situation should be about finding out the truth. Beyond that, it should be about figuring out how the Sanduskys of the world manage to pull this stuff off. At the end of this whole thing, nobody will have won. That is, unless we learn something about serial pedophiles like Jerry.

 

[coveydidnt]

Ah, it's change of shift time.

Unlike you, I prefer to wait until I see the case play out. I certainly hope CSS are turly innocent & if so, are found so.

You seem committed though, to the alternative, before hearing the case. That they are innocent, and if not found not guilty, you'll blame someone else for shenanigans.

I find the whole thing with you & the other shills so crazy. If, (again, I hope not) CSS or any of them individually is proven to have actually knowingly endangered kids, then they are almost as bad as Jerry.

And yet I worry (although I still hope they are cleared) that if they are found guilty you and your ilk will be crying about how come JR, Mr. McQ, Dranov, Fina, the OGBoT, Ganim, etc etc are the true villains.

Can't we all just agree to wait a couple weeks & see what is revealed & what the outcome is?

 

[coveydidnt]

I find it sad that many have turned this into a game, a situation of "I win, you lose!". Really despicable no matter which side of the competition you are on. This whole situation should be about finding out the truth. Beyond that, it should be about figuring out how the Sanduskys of the world manage to pull this stuff off. At the end of this whole thing, nobody will have won. That is, unless we learn something about serial pedophiles like Jerry.

Agree 100%

 

[roswelllion]

I agree with Wensilver, I would not [or only tangentially] go down the MM testimony path.

I would get into the record Dranov's recent testimony that he heard NOTHING that warranted contacting authorities.[refutes the anal rape scenario]
Then I would focus on TSM
.did they know about 98?
If no, then go back to DPW and CYS and find out why. Colt seems to think they must have known or SHOULD have been contacted.
If yes, then why no action between 98 and 01? If yes then why no action regardless of what TC told JR?
If JR plays the simple horseplay story then why his comment about "you must be crazy" to TC
I would also ask JR 'isn't it your responsibility to investigate this situation regardless of what TC told you? [answer yes] Then I would follow up with "does it make any sense at all for TC to make up a story of horseplay if he knew you would follow up with the TSM child and likely get the real story"?
Then I might get Fina and or Esbach on the stand and contrast the Dranov version [nothing criminal] with their presentment [anal rape]. How could 2 completely contradictory stories come from the same testimony MM. .
From a conspiracy standpoint, I would parade anybody and everybody on the stand and ask them at any time did anyone from PSU ask or suggest you shouldn't take any concerns you might have to any agency or authority?

To me this comes back to JS fooled everyone from TSM and every state agency including OAG and that is okay but based on a report from MM that was different from what he told his dad and Dr D and different from what he told JVP they should have figured it out done more. In truth they did the most [told JR, prohibited JS from going back to the the facilities with kids]. Who else did anything?

 

[baircub1!]

I know.

Sigh.

Maybe I could be overthinking but... I'm actually concerned with what's going on with MSU and Nassar and the possibility of how it could effect a jury pool with our case...

My reasoning is that the GP... which comprises jurors... are hearing more about situations and cases coming out where the big institutions... which includes University's continue to try and hide things...are the bad guys and will do anything to protect their images and reputations.

I'm NOT saying that's what happened at Penn State with C/S/S... but it is easy to cast suspicion when other cases like MSU and Nassar are popping up into the news.

Again... we have seen it before...a tainted jury does not provide much confidence for me in these guys getting a fair shake.

However... if found innocent which I truly HOPE will happen... my wish is that they... anyone... goes after Fina , Corbett etc etc with such a vengeance that it destroys their lives forever...forever !

 

[bjf1991]

Maybe I could be overthinking but... I'm actually concerned with what's going on with MSU and Nassar and the possibility of how it could effect a jury pool with our case...

My reasoning is that the GP... which comprises jurors... are hearing more about situations and cases coming out where the big institutions... which includes University's continue to try and hide things...are the bad guys and will do anything to protect their images and reputations.

I'm NOT saying that's what happened at Penn State with C/S/S... but it is easy to cast suspicion when other cases like MSU and Nassar are popping up into the news.

Again... we have seen it before...a tainted jury does not provide much confidence for me in these guys getting a fair shake.

However... if found innocent which I truly HOPE will happen... my wish is that they... anyone... goes after Fina , Corbett etc etc with such a vengeance that it destroys their lives forever...forever !

MSU situation?

What MSU "situation"? In fact, who the F is MSU?

-------------

That's the perception of 99.99% of the general public - - so, in answer to your question, the "impact" of "Nasser" = ZERO

 

[Stufftodo]

C'mon "one or the other" with no other choice? How about "inappropriate behavior that we are uncomfortable with" - hence JR's comment back to to Tim about "if you are telling me he is a ped you are crazy" - You want to explain how JR could have made that comment with just a horseplay story.or do nothing with a "sexual nature" comment?

So no state agency reported to TSM about the 98 incident? If they did or should have then TSM knew. If they didn't and decided it was not worthy of notifying TSM why should TC and GS be on "alert" when clearly the experts thought it was nothing worth reporting.

One of the amazing things about this ordeal is how JS fooled TSM, CYS, DPW PSP for years and no one thinks anything about it and yet TC and GS should have been aware and tuned in to everything. Hindsight is both 20/20 and often blind to real time observations.

What if Sandusky didn't fool them in 1998. You assume that th reason Sandusky was not prosecuted because they couldn't prove he molested Victim 6 and B.K. They did not try top prove it.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I find it sad that many have turned this into a game, a situation of "I win, you lose!". Really despicable no matter which side of the competition you are on. This whole situation should be about finding out the truth. Beyond that, it should be about figuring out how the Sanduskys of the world manage to pull this stuff off. At the end of this whole thing, nobody will have won. That is, unless we learn something about serial pedophiles like Jerry.

Amen. Let it come out for better or worse. Look at people already playing the unfair trial card ahead of any trial. Too many opinions here have turned into facts over the years. You should have to wear boots to post on this topic anymore.

 

[bjf1991]

What if Sandusky didn't fool them in 1998. You assume that th reason Sandusky was not prosecuted because they couldn't prove he molested Victim 6 and B.K. They did not try top prove it.

 

[roswelllion]

What if Sandusky didn't fool them in 1998. You assume that th reason Sandusky was not prosecuted because they couldn't prove he molested Victim 6 and B.K. They did not try top prove it.

Don't disagree. Then I spend my time saying how no state agency or the police did anything to prove JS was evil. IMO these juries WANT to find someone culpable. If not TC GS then it needs to be DPW CYS TSM or OAG.

 

[roswelllion]

Amen. Let it come out for better or worse. Look at people already playing the unfair trial card ahead of any trial. Too many opinions here have turned into facts over the years. You should have to wear boots to post on this topic anymore.

Obviously your feelings re the HS trial is well known. Do you think the rulings we have seen so far in the CSS case have been logical?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Obviously your feelings re the HS trial is well known. Do you think the rulings we have seen so far in the CSS case have been logical?

Do you think it was unfair that the state dropped charges? I can do the question dance much better than you. Again, wait and see what happens before you etch that final opinion in stone. Crazy that is too hard to ask for.

 

[getmyjive11]

I find it amusing that you continue to believe it actually matters what TC told JR - it does not
It was reported to him - he did not follow proper DPW protocols

What was reported to him? Suspected CSA or just "horseplay"?

 

[Stufftodo]

Don't disagree. Then I spend my time saying how no state agency or the police did anything to prove JS was evil. IMO these juries WANT to find someone culpable. If not TC GS then it needs to be DPW CYS TSM or OAG.

Not if CSS knew that. If the DA and/or CYS communicated that to them, it changes what happened in 2001.

Gee, BFJ thinks it's normal for a district attorney not to interview a victim. WOW!!!

 

[Zenophile]

Boy sexually assaulted in a Penn State shower by Sandusky.

According to a unanimous jury verdict.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.

And who made the unforgivable decision not to prosecute that?

I'm still waiting, counselor.

 

[pandaczar12]

Has anyone else noticed how the trolls have all seemed to jump on the "let's just wait for this to play out" band wagon?

I will again ask the question they're afraid to answer now in case they don't like the verdict:

Hypothetically speaking, if C/S/S are convicted but appeal, has it "played out" at the point of conviction, or does one need to wait until the appeals are done? Asking for a friend.