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This from NYC planning office

Based upon your comments, you are far from a centrist.
You do not know me or what I have done and still do.

This thread is leaning very far right. My mother was on the campaign staff of an R Presidential candidate who is further right than many today. My dad worked for a company that makes nuclear weapons. Pretty crazy MSNBC liberal right??????

A centrist worships at neither altar and isn't stupid enough to get their news from one source. My wife went to high school with Martha McCallum....I watch CNN and Fox equally to understand where most people get their "facts." It usually is pretty easy to tell when you talk to folks....you are what you eat.

There is a lot of ways to look at issues. Many conveniently view things to their own benefit. Some people in our Commonwealth dip into both pools as it relates to addressing employment issues: Restaurants, Landscapers, Agricultural Farms and Manufacturing to name a few.

They use "Apple in China" logic to allow themselves to eat from both troughs and pass the buck to others to take potential blame. It is unethical.

Do you have an opinion about those who choose to do say one thing and do another?

That is a legitimate question during this time in our country.
 
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You do not know me or what I have done and still do.

This thread is leaning very far right. My mother was on the campaign staff of an R Presidential candidate who is further right than many today. My dad worked for a company that makes nuclear weapons. Pretty crazy MSNBC liberal right??????

A centrist worships at neither altar and isn't stupid enough to get their news from one source. My wife went to high school with Martha McCallum....I watch CNN and Fox equally to understand where most people get their "facts." It usually is pretty easy to tell when you talk to folks....you are what you eat.

There is a lot of ways to look at issues. Many conveniently view things to their own benefit. Some people in our Commonwealth dip into both pools as it relates to addressing employment issues: Restaurants, Landscapers, Agricultural Farms and Manufacturing to name a few.

They use "Apple in China" logic to allow themselves to eat from both troughs and pass the buck to others to take potential blame. It is unethical.

Do you have an opinion about those who choose to do say one thing and do another?

That is a legitimate question during this time in our country.

Sullivan is a trumper. Trumpers think they are in the center 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
If thats what you want to believe. Also, I am sure you could understand, or maybe not, but Tom wasn't allowed to say what was happening.

Political posts on these boards are everything wrong with this country right now.
No, Gregg, it is what happened.

Tom McA is garbage.

He censored the Covid discussion, and as a pretty liberal arts guy, had no idea what he was censoring.
 
No, Gregg, it is what happened.

Tom McA is garbage.

He censored the Covid discussion, and as a pretty liberal arts guy, had no idea what he was censoring.
Most of today's covid revelations were brought up a couple of years ago in that thread and then deleted by Tom. The guy should be sued for suppressing medical info that would have helped save lives.
 
Most of today's covid revelations were brought up a couple of years ago in that thread and then deleted by Tom. The guy should be sued for suppressing medical info that would have helped save lives.
Tom is a guy who simply isn't smart enough to think for himself.

So, guys like that should not be censoring whether "Ivermectin and HCQ are proven safe by billions of doses, and so people should not be dissuaded from trying them as treatments for Covid, whether or not they end up being effective".

You see, smart people can think that through. A guy like Tom? No way. Just not smart enough. So, he "follows the science".

Not sure he should be sued, but should be shamed.
 
90% of the counties that lost population over the last decade voted for Trump. The entire state of WV is projected to lose substantial population over the next 10 years. Most of the country is essentially no better off than a third-world country (and getting worse). NYC is the least of our concerns as a country.
I'm not sure what you are arguing. The OP, as well as I, stated that high tax blue states are losing their wealthy tax base, not specifically population. You can Google this very easily.
 
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Is Mary mentally retarded or is she trying to get folks to leave this forum for the new BWI?
 
I'm not sure what you are arguing. The OP, as well as I, stated that high tax blue states are losing their wealthy tax base, not specifically population. You can Google this very easily.

Measuring the migration patterns of the wealthy during COVID and using that as a measure of a state or city’s health is about the dumbest thing you can do.
 
I agree that this stuff helped ruin the McAndrew Board- at least for me. But since there is such concern for the innocent city dwellers and tidal wave of job stealers I guess we are in the conversation.

I'm a centrist who believes in no political party. I voted for both blue and red candidates in the most recent election based on their abilities to meet my hopes for #1 my wife and myself and #2 my community.

Here is a legitimate question for the conservative voices who support our past (and maybe future) President as it relates to immigration:

If you are a business owner who is a tried and true Trumpian, is it allowable for you to hire workers who may not be documented and still be able to wave the MAGA flag?

Using "employment agencies" who are willing to take the risk for a big profit by underpaying migrants and creating false documentation is one way that businesses get to reap the benefit of the corporate tax break from DT- yet also say that they do not directly hire "illegals."

Is it ethical for someone to do this as a business practice if there are no US citizens available to do the work?

This question goes beyond political rhetoric- is it possible to have your cake and eat it too?
Sure, securing the boarder is not just about illegal aliens, but also about all forms of trafficking. I grew up in Kennett square, pa and for many years in the 80’s and early 90’s we had the highest population of non-documented residents per capita in the country and at the time it was a very heavy red leaning area. Great growing agricultural community at the time. Now Kennett is part of the opioid / fentanyl corridor from Harrisburg/Baltimore to the northeast. It is a major hub.
 
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I love it.

NYers should be prevented from voting in their new state for 10 years.
Maybe those rich and disaffected New Yorkers should move to Green Acres (aka Smithton, Pennsylvania). So much to do there, and so many bright, educated and sophisticated people to meet there. Say hi to Arnold Ziffel for me.

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Is Mary mentally retarded or is she trying to get folks to leave this forum for the new BWI?
LMAOROFL I finally noticed that I accidentally posted this on the football forum instead of the test forum. My bad, but I stand behind the content. Sane people who can afford to leave blue cities are part of the largest internal migration in US history.
 
LMAOROFL I finally noticed that I accidentally posted this on the football forum instead of the test forum. My bad, but I stand behind the content. Sane people who can afford to leave blue cities are part of the largest internal migration in US history.
Is Mary mentally retarded or is she trying to get folks to leave this forum for the new BWI?
Speaking of mentally retarded. There is a mass migration from blue to red. Yet a large portion of those leaving the blue shells of their former self due to decades of blue rule are now showing up in their new red homes and continue to vote blue. They will eventually ruin their new homes as well by voting in the very policies of which the results they once escaped.
 
Speaking of mentally retarded. There is a mass migration from blue to red. Yet a large portion of those leaving the blue shells of their former self due to decades of blue rule are now showing up in their new red homes and continue to vote blue. They will eventually ruin their new homes as well by voting in the very policies of which the results they once escaped.
Not so in FL. 4 years ago, registered Democrats out numbered Republicans by about 250,000. Today, Republicans outnumber Democrats. Blue states are getting bluer.
 
Not so in FL. 4 years ago, registered Democrats out numbered Republicans by about 250,000. Today, Republicans outnumber Democrats. Blue states are getting bluer.
Mary, you are correct about Florida but it is an exception for a number of reasons. One reason is that it has an exceptional governor and his results are turning the state more red. But look at Georgia, heck even Texas is becoming bluer.

Generally speaking, NY, NJ, Cal etc migration heads to better run red states that are increasingly voting bluer.
 
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PS General Electric hired me after graduation because I scored a 36 on the Wonderlic Test. That us aboclve the retard range.
No need to defend yourself, we all can see that the personal attack that the above poster or any poster hurls is more of a reflection of themselves than of some poster that they never met on a message board. If they are reduced to calling someone retarded then you know that they cannot articulate a rational argument.
 
I agree that this stuff helped ruin the McAndrew Board- at least for me. But since there is such concern for the innocent city dwellers and tidal wave of job stealers I guess we are in the conversation.

I'm a centrist who believes in no political party. I voted for both blue and red candidates in the most recent election based on their abilities to meet my hopes for #1 my wife and myself and #2 my community.

Here is a legitimate question for the conservative voices who support our past (and maybe future) President as it relates to immigration:

If you are a business owner who is a tried and true Trumpian, is it allowable for you to hire workers who may not be documented and still be able to wave the MAGA flag?

Using "employment agencies" who are willing to take the risk for a big profit by underpaying migrants and creating false documentation is one way that businesses get to reap the benefit of the corporate tax break from DT- yet also say that they do not directly hire "illegals."

Is it ethical for someone to do this as a business practice if there are no US citizens available to do the work?

This question goes beyond political rhetoric- is it possible to have your cake and eat it too?
as I understand it, once a person is signed on as a migrant he/she is allowed to work up until their hearing. So, if you're talking about migrants, there's no problem.
Now if you're here illegally, then supposedly you're not allowed to work. But...but...our federal government. the agency responsible for immigration, has told illegals that they will not be arrested, prosecuted or deported unless they commit some major crime. So, the agency responsible for enforcing the law, has abdicated any enforcement of the law. So, you have to ask yourself, if there is a law that nobody is going to enforce, is there really a law? That's the rub. So, from your question you're asking if a business owner who has no authority to enforce the law should be the one to enforce a law that the legal authority has said, in effect, ignore the law.
What would you do??
 
Sure, securing the boarder is not just about illegal aliens, but also about all forms of trafficking. I grew up in Kennett square, pa and for many years in the 80’s and early 90’s we had the highest population of non-documented residents per capita in the country and at the time it was a very heavy red leaning area. Great growing agricultural community at the time. Now Kennett is part of the opioid / fentanyl corridor from Harrisburg/Baltimore to the northeast. It is a major hub.
Where are you getting that information? Southern Chester County real estate, communities, schools and towns are thriving. Especially Kennett. Have you not been back in awhile? "Uptown" Kennett was a shithole in the 1980s, it is all restaurants, shops and boutiques catering to affluent shoppers. Maybe they are fencing heroin in there?

All of the other towns down to Oxford on the Maryland border are significantly more developed with better schools and upper middle class neighborhoods. Of course there is a high level of Migrant workers too...in Ag, and other industries. Many of the wealthier kids are too busy going to their travel team games or lacrosse showcase events to have part time jobs.

Any blind fool can see the changing patterns of the working class in Chesyer County. African Americans and "Southern Whites" in the 70s, augmented by Puerto Ricans. Followed by a huge wave of Mexicans, now including folks from Triangle Countries, primarily Guatemala.

The maps are useless because of what some posters have stated. One basic reality is that undocumented immigrants end up in places based on their ability TO GET JOBS. So who is hiring people into physical labor positions where language isn't needed?

Look at the busboy at your favorite restaurant. Check out the folks mowing your grass or spreading your mulch. From South Jersey to Hazelton to Delmarva people are arriving to work. Did you ever drive through Millsboro, DE and see who the shops cater to? Maybe go by the chicken plant at shift change? Who is walking out?

I am 100% NOT FOR OPEN BORDERS. However, the economic reality is that many businesses are taking advantage of these folks. From the "coyotes" who get paid to transport them, to the people who work at hiring agencies, to the drivers who get them to and from work, to the land lords who charge "company town" rents for hovels, to the check cashing stores and Western Union telegram places that charge to send money back "home", wherever that may be.

Is it ALL liberal blue businesses that resort to these workers? Most likely it is 50/50 like everything else. How many on this board have actually talked to undocumented people? How many know the stories of the perils that people take to get here? People trafficking is very real, and rape is a common thing that occurs on the route given the powerless state and fear of reporting that these folks have. The worst part is that most UNDERSTAND what will happen, and they still come. Why? It is better than starving.

My mom is a former Catholic nun. Our nation is debating the value of human life and religious freedoms from the right to life to the right to refuse baking people's wedding cakes. If you overlay a religious perspective of "whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do into me" then you face a real moral dilemma.

The political arguments are overly simplistic, and in practice acolytes of some doctrine are overtly and knowingly breaking their philosophies.For money and GDP. Construction is booming in my county. Who are the unskilled laborers?

Immigration is broken badly and needs to be reformed. Temporary Ag work visas need to be figured out, and both parties have to get off of their soap boxes and get real. Of the undocumented people I interact with, the #1 trait is that they are exceptionally hard working. The "welfare queen" concept is not evident in my region of the state.
 
as I understand it, once a person is signed on as a migrant he/she is allowed to work up until their hearing. So, if you're talking about migrants, there's no problem.
Now if you're here illegally, then supposedly you're not allowed to work. But...but...our federal government. the agency responsible for immigration, has told illegals that they will not be arrested, prosecuted or deported unless they commit some major crime. So, the agency responsible for enforcing the law, has abdicated any enforcement of the law. So, you have to ask yourself, if there is a law that nobody is going to enforce, is there really a law? That's the rub. So, from your question you're asking if a business owner who has no authority to enforce the law should be the one to enforce a law that the legal authority has said, in effect, ignore the law.
What would you do??
OIf you believe that nobody gets deported than you are misinformed. It comes in waves, and the period of Mr. Obama first term was especially "hot" in my area.

Given the low jobless claims reports it's clear that there is a population of Americans who are not working and no longer looking for work. Why? is a question that is politically debatable. I fall on the side against the geavy train...
so yes...centrist.

But just because "Their" DOJ isn't enforcing laws doesn't mean that it is ethically OK to break said laws, and then not support the people who do your work by politically demonizing them. That doesn't make sense. Donnie T would skewer such owners and label them traitors. The chicken place in Mississippi, the landscape place in Toledo. Remember them? Simple double standard.

The answer lies in a bi partisan reality check...which isn't possible in this environment. BOTH PARTIES are delinquent.
 
Hahahhahaha

”both sides”

Hitler and m
e, both lawbreakers.

Nobody called you Hitler or a lawbreaker. Typical "make things personal and insult to avoid uncomfortable realities." DT Twitter 101. Maybe call me Pocahontas....

Now IF you support a political doctrine that espouses to deport all "illegals" including DACA kids because they are un American or here illegally, yet you go ahead and hire them to serve your own business needs, then yes...you are doing criminal activity and unethical behavior.

Your morality is up to you and whatever faith system you espouse to. And if DT were to know of your actions he would not be supportive.

Many want things BOTH ways....and yes BOTH parties get an F for where we are. When US unployment is high (post Great Recession) we chase and prosecute and deport. When workers are needed...we relax the pressure. Goes all the way back to the braceros in Cali when most men were off fighting and crops needed to be harvested. The Bushes supported legal Pathways too.

The faucet is wide open b/c we NEED arms and legs. If you are actively hiring, yet also complaining, then yes, you are part of the larger problem.
 
as I understand it, once a person is signed on as a migrant he/she is allowed to work up until their hearing. So, if you're talking about migrants, there's no problem.
Now if you're here illegally, then supposedly you're not allowed to work. But...but...our federal government. the agency responsible for immigration, has told illegals that they will not be arrested, prosecuted or deported unless they commit some major crime. So, the agency responsible for enforcing the law, has abdicated any enforcement of the law. So, you have to ask yourself, if there is a law that nobody is going to enforce, is there really a law? That's the rub. So, from your question you're asking if a business owner who has no authority to enforce the law should be the one to enforce a law that the legal authority has said, in effect, ignore the law.
What would you do??
There are people in my community who are here legally from Venezuela and have applied for political asylum and unaccompanied minors who are awaiting hearings from Guatemala. They are not currently able to obtain legal employment. They work....just not in good jobs that they are capable of doing....back of house in restaurants, ag, day laborers with no health insurance or company liability for unsafe work8ng conditions.

Most of the VZLA families have gone through numerous government screenings where they have to transport all of their belongings to Newark, NJ where the family story is told and retold, adults and kids are interviewed looking for inconsistencies, and IF we determine that they are not truthful THEN they are immediately taken to an airport and deported. Those I know have "passed", but they tell of others who haven't.

Once you settle into a place when you first arrive and apply, you must stay in that location. There is a famous radio commentator from VZ who spoke out against the government and fled for his life. After initially staying with people he knew in SEPA, he tried to move to Orlando where his relative status amongst the large VZ population would keep him out of the manual kabor that he and his wife were doing locally here. They only lasted a month in FL before having to return. The guy saved money, bought a car, did uber/ door dash and other odd jobs and now has established a better life...but he works 18 hours a day. He was an elite in VZ. His kid did Formula 1 racing. All of that is gone. Even legal immigrants have handcuffs.

One VZ family chose to leave America and move to live in Peru w a relative. Eventhough there is significant anti VZ immigrant hatred in Peru due to the volume of refugees, they would rather be there than here.

It is a very complicated path that many oversimplify. To think that we are not the "Golden Ticket" that refugees thought we were and that they chose to leave for a country that is even more politically dysfunctional and potentially dangerous says a lot.

If you know the people it is hard to not see their faces when people at rallies chant and follow the leader.

The system is broken. It would be impossible to deport everyone, and economic suicide for our businesses too. The rhetoric just divides us more and nothing gets done.

Many local people who have been arrested fpr felonies/violent crime/multiple duis etc do indeed get deported, and I have no problem with it.
 
Is Mary mentally retarded or is she trying to get folks to leave this forum for the new BWI?
Seriously that is your response - people like you are why this country has become the way it is on both sides - juvenile personal attacks - I bet you think of yourself as quite the progressive person with the use of terms like "retarded".
 
There are people in my community who are here legally from Venezuela and have applied for political asylum and unaccompanied minors who are awaiting hearings from Guatemala. They are not currently able to obtain legal employment. They work....just not in good jobs that they are capable of doing....back of house in restaurants, ag, day laborers with no health insurance or company liability for unsafe work8ng conditions.

Most of the VZLA families have gone through numerous government screenings where they have to transport all of their belongings to Newark, NJ where the family story is told and retold, adults and kids are interviewed looking for inconsistencies, and IF we determine that they are not truthful THEN they are immediately taken to an airport and deported. Those I know have "passed", but they tell of others who haven't.

Once you settle into a place when you first arrive and apply, you must stay in that location. There is a famous radio commentator from VZ who spoke out against the government and fled for his life. After initially staying with people he knew in SEPA, he tried to move to Orlando where his relative status amongst the large VZ population would keep him out of the manual kabor that he and his wife were doing locally here. They only lasted a month in FL before having to return. The guy saved money, bought a car, did uber/ door dash and other odd jobs and now has established a better life...but he works 18 hours a day. He was an elite in VZ. His kid did Formula 1 racing. All of that is gone. Even legal immigrants have handcuffs.

One VZ family chose to leave America and move to live in Peru w a relative. Eventhough there is significant anti VZ immigrant hatred in Peru due to the volume of refugees, they would rather be there than here.

It is a very complicated path that many oversimplify. To think that we are not the "Golden Ticket" that refugees thought we were and that they chose to leave for a country that is even more politically dysfunctional and potentially dangerous says a lot.

If you know the people it is hard to not see their faces when people at rallies chant and follow the leader.

The system is broken. It would be impossible to deport everyone, and economic suicide for our businesses too. The rhetoric just divides us more and nothing gets done.

Many local people who have been arrested fpr felonies/violent crime/multiple duis etc do indeed get deported, and I have no problem with it.

You are boring me with your liberal b.s. If you want to help them, either go to Venezuela and help them, or send them a check.
 
You are boring me with your liberal b.s. If you want to help them, either go to Venezuela and help them, or send them a check.
And you are what you are too.

Just turn on your news and parrot away.

I watch your news and their news.

And it does get "boring" watching sycophants slobber over each other trying to be the best "Americans" and push agendas and report the same stories completely differently. It is where we are.

The previous poster shared what "his impression" of legal immigration work rights were. Where was his impression formed? Maybe your channel? They are not exactly correct, and my stories are of real people. Maybe you'll send thoughts and prayers for their wretched souls this season? Atta boy Ebeneezer.

So if his impression is not in fact what is happening, in at least the reality of where I live, I guess it is OK to remain uniformed and pass the buck to "them." If you believe our immigration system is good...and fair...and working to meet our nations' needs as the global leader of hope... so be it.

I don't care what you think....but your vote and mine count the same. Good luck...just don't fool yourself into thinking that many people aren't hypocrites when it comes to policy and actual employment practice.

That's not debatable.

#Can'thaveit both ways.

I too am bored and done.

Thanks for the last call...
this thread never should have started.

Over and out.
 
Measuring the migration patterns of the wealthy during COVID and using that as a measure of a state or city’s health is about the dumbest thing you can do.
It's been going on far longer than COVID...again, you can easily Google this.
 
You do not know me or what I have done and still do.

This thread is leaning very far right. My mother was on the campaign staff of an R Presidential candidate who is further right than many today. My dad worked for a company that makes nuclear weapons. Pretty crazy MSNBC liberal right??????

A centrist worships at neither altar and isn't stupid enough to get their news from one source. My wife went to high school with Martha McCallum....I watch CNN and Fox equally to understand where most people get their "facts." It usually is pretty easy to tell when you talk to folks....you are what you eat.

There is a lot of ways to look at issues. Many conveniently view things to their own benefit. Some people in our Commonwealth dip into both pools as it relates to addressing employment issues: Restaurants, Landscapers, Agricultural Farms and Manufacturing to name a few.

They use "Apple in China" logic to allow themselves to eat from both troughs and pass the buck to others to take potential blame. It is unethical.

Do you have an opinion about those who choose to do say one thing and do another?

That is a legitimate question during this time in our country.
I wish we could all just get news today without any slant, and then make up our own minds about what we believe. I have a sense that others would still label us if we didn't think like them. But they wouldn't be able to blame us for what news outlet we watch.
 
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Every elected politician should be a MAX of 8 years. Two terms at most. No way should a politician be a job for 50 years. Until that happens, our country will continue to go downhill. Too many are tied to dirty money! Both damn parties!
 
Nobody called you Hitler or a lawbreaker. Typical "make things personal and insult to avoid uncomfortable realities." DT Twitter 101. Maybe call me Pocahontas....

Now IF you support a political doctrine that espouses to deport all "illegals" including DACA kids because they are un American or here illegally, yet you go ahead and hire them to serve your own business needs, then yes...you are doing criminal activity and unethical behavior.

Your morality is up to you and whatever faith system you espouse to. And if DT were to know of your actions he would not be supportive.

Many want things BOTH ways....and yes BOTH parties get an F for where we are. When US unployment is high (post Great Recession) we chase and prosecute and deport. When workers are needed...we relax the pressure. Goes all the way back to the braceros in Cali when most men were off fighting and crops needed to be harvested. The Bushes supported legal Pathways too.

The faucet is wide open b/c we NEED arms and legs. If you are actively hiring, yet also complaining, then yes, you are part of the larger problem.

It’s just a matter of time before the wide open faucet is going to bite us hard.

Drop your guard . . .
 
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Nobody called you Hitler or a lawbreaker. Typical "make things personal and insult to avoid uncomfortable realities." DT Twitter 101. Maybe call me Pocahontas....

Now IF you support a political doctrine that espouses to deport all "illegals" including DACA kids because they are un American or here illegally, yet you go ahead and hire them to serve your own business needs, then yes...you are doing criminal activity and unethical behavior.

Your morality is up to you and whatever faith system you espouse to. And if DT were to know of your actions he would not be

Many want things BOTH ways....and yes BOTH parties get an F for where we are. When US unployment is high (post Great Recession) we chase and prosecute and deport. When workers are needed...we the pressure. Goes all the way back to the braceros in Cali when most men were off fighting and crops needed to be harvested. The Bushes supported legal Pathways too.

The faucet is wide open b/c we NEED arms and legs. If you are actively hiring, yet also complaining, then yes, you are part of the larger problem.
I thought it was obvious that I was not saying that you compared me to Hitler, but rather, that saying "both sides are to blame" is like saying that both Hitler and some other guy who got a traffic ticket are both criminals.

Those are true statements, both of them.

But it conceals the whole truth.
 
PA is basically the same as NY; the citizens who don't live in the big mess which is the city in the Southeastern part of the Commonwealth, the ones who don't live in a bit smaller mess which is the city in the Southwestern part of the Commonwealth, and the ones who don't live in a even smaller mess which is the city in the central part of the Commonwealth, have to pay for all of the garbage that happens in those messes.
You do realize that runs completely opposite of reality? You do realize generally that the red counties take more tax money then they contribute?

Screen-Shot-2019-02-18-at-12.27.01-PM.jpg
 
That’s isn’t at all true. NYC is seeing a large influx of people moving in.
So you're saying that a large exodus during COVID isn't relevant, but a large influx after COVID, is. Got it.

I couldn't tell you what's happening this month, but for a decade, the states listed above, including my have been bleeding wealth to low tax states in the south
 
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