This game will be won or lost at the LOS

[cvilleelkscoach]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

 

[PennSt8er]

Their O and our crowd is a difference maker. I think we sweat this game out and take over in the 4th

 

[Tweedbear]

All games are won at the line of scrimmage

 

[rudedude]

All games are won by the team who scores more points! Therefore, games are won by teams who make big plays to score TD's, such as kickoff or punt returns, interception pick sixes by D backs, blocked kicks, as well as the traditional LOS blocking and defending that lead to TD runs and TD passes. Not disagreeing just enhancing.

 

[NittanyChris]

This is traditional logic. Two things: both teams defensive lines have advantages over the offensive lines. That equals out.
Then it comes down to other factors. Our skill players are light years ahead of Michigan's skill players. Then there is the crowd, revenge factor, a team seeking respect… And on and on.

 

[rudedude]

This is traditional logic. Two things: both teams defensive lines have advantages over the offensive lines. That equals out.
Then it comes down to other factors. Our skill players are light years ahead of Michigan's skill players. Then there is the crowd, revenge factor, a team seeking respect… And on and on.

Yes, the Whiteout crowd and us having the #2 ranking is huuuuuuge. I have a feeling we may see a game similar to the 2002 beatdown of Nebraska.

 

[demlion]

Which LOS is the place where the game will be won? You say at THE LOS, but there are two. So, the game will be won over things that happen when we have the ball?

What about when they have the ball? Is our defense not quite superior to UM's offense? Since we have the advantage when they have the ball, should we let them win time of possession?

Certainly if the oline gets consistently beat by UMs Dline, that is a terrible problem. It's 5 of our guys getting beat by 5 of their guys.

I remember my coaches telling us this. And in 1975 farm country pa hs football, it was almost invariably so.

If our success depends solely on running the ball down UM's throat, we lose. But that has been true in a bunch of our games and we won anyway.

 

[demlion]

I guess for me this tries to evaluate a pretty modern football game by the standards of some Woody Hayes rubric that is long past. Do I wish PSU could line it up like 1994 and ram it down Um's throat? Sure. But thats not in the cards 2 years after sanctions were lifted.

 

[Madsol]

With all due respect to the OP, I believe your analysis would be much more relevant in 1987 than it is in 2017. PSU won the B1G and scored 49 points in the Rose Bowl last year without a dominant OL. PSU is not going to win this game by trying to plow straight ahead thru the UM defense. We're going to win this game by maximizing the opportunities for our playmakers to make plays in space. The OP minimizes every advantage that PSU has yet it is those advantages that makes this such a difficult matchup for UM. Now maybe Saturday night around 11:00 it will have been shown that a team can shut down Barkley AND take away our passing game and I'll have to eat a big plate of crow. But until that happens, I'm going to remain convinced that the PSU offense, with the playmakers we have, will be nearly impossible for a team to shut down. And with UM's very pedestrian offense going against our defense, their only chance to win is to completely shut down our offense. We'll see what happens.

 

[bdgan]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

I don't expect PSU to win the LOS, especially on offense. I'm just hoping they can hold their own.

 

[SR108]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

We have a pretty good punter, how many 80 plus yard drives will Michigan be able to put together.

You are probably right about the OLine issue, although I think their problem is more mental/experience than physical. On the other hand, we have played more than one game where we have been stuffed, given up sacks, TFL and so forth, but are still able to come up with big explosive plays. With Michigan in press/man coverage, all we need to do is get one of our athletes in space with the ball on a few occasions for some big plays. We have other guys that can run besides Barkley.

 

[jppsu1]

I don’t feel good about winning LOS. My worry is the field goal game. Nordin is pretty damn good!!!

 

[CampbellLION]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

PSU doesn't have to "win" the line of scrimmage on offense, they just can't lose it badly. Moorhead will still find ways to get chunk plays. And I think our D is good for a pick 6 this week against O'korn. He gets rattled under pressure.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

Was IU or Air Force that much better than PSU up front? I'm asking because while I respect what UM has in terms of a front 7, they are not as dominant as last year and have taken a step back on offense. Last year they pretty much played the scout team LB's and it was the week before this offense really introduced Trace into running the ball. Can UM win this game...certainly. Turnovers, big plays....etc...anything can happen, but while they are good up front on the DL and they really are....PSU isn't too shabby on D either. Trace needs to do what he did against NW...take what is there and move the sticks...get some points and make UM chase PSU. It will be a close game as both teams have a ton of talent, but I like PSU at home at night against 99% of the teams in the country.

 

[sluggo72]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

'If the line blocks, we have great backs, if the line doesn't block, the line sucks, so you might as well block' from that great philosopher, R Eugene Hummel.

Following an outstanding career at Harrisburg's John Harris High School, he was called upon to serve in World War II. He returned in September, 1945 to continue his education. He played football two years, going both ways at guard. He lost little time in establishing himself as one of the finest college linemen in the country. He started in all 17 games his junior and senior years, won two varsity letters and was named both years to the Associated Press All-State first team, which included all players. He became so well known that in the summer of 1949 he was selected to play for the College All-Stars against the defending world champion New York Giants in the Polo Grounds.

After pitching one year, he was sent to the outfield and became one of the top baseball players in Gettysburg history with a career bating well over .300.

He returned to his Alma Mater to serve as assistant football and head baseball coach

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

Which LOS is the place where the game will be won? You say at THE LOS, but there are two. So, the game will be won over things that happen when we have the ball?

What about when they have the ball? Is our defense not quite superior to UM's offense? Since we have the advantage when they have the ball, should we let them win time of possession?

Certainly if the oline gets consistently beat by UMs Dline, that is a terrible problem. It's 5 of our guys getting beat by 5 of their guys.

I remember my coaches telling us this. And in 1975 farm country pa hs football, it was almost invariably so.

If our success depends solely on running the ball down UM's throat, we lose. But that has been true in a bunch of our games and we won anyway.

Not sure what game you played but there is one line of scrimmage. Different groups may line up there but there is but one.

 

[SR108]

Not sure what game you played but there is one line of scrimmage. Different groups may line up there but there is but one.

True, however, if the Penn State front seven plays as good as the Michigan front seven, then we don't lose the battle. In which case, the team most able to find a big play or two probably wins.

 

[katchthis]

As always turnovers, penalties, and special teams add to the mix. We have been good on creating TO's, and minimizing penalties. Punt team strong, return game good, UM edge on FG. Go State.

 

[Obliviax]

I tend to agree but that is kind of "old school" thinking. Houston, TCU and Wash State aren't blowing people off of the LOS. Today, that is an element but not the end all. And that is a good thing as UM's front on D is going to have a field day.

PSU is going to have to move the ball off the edge (touch with UM's athletes) or through the air. UM has a good DB but PSU is better. And if UM overly commits to stopping #26, we will move the ball. But we MUST cash in with FG's if we bog down in the red zone.

I like our D against their O. they started a new RB against Indy who gained over 200 yards but they still struggled. That RB is only 190 so isn't a power runner. Hopefully, we can get a couple of TO's with O'Korn.

Low scoring game, won with FG's, I am moving my prediction down to PSU 19 UM 10.

 

[psulax3]

I think the team that scores the most points will win. I hope that team is Penn State.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

PSU is going to be able to commit 7-8 guys to stop the run while leaving our CBs on islands. They can do it.

My thought is that PSU needs to create mismatches and get to the perimeter. I don't think Michigan has anyone that can cover Gesicki and Barkley consistently.

So, will Don Brown dedicate Hudson or 1-2 other guys to spying & stopping Barkley? If so, Gesicki should have a field day. If Brown doesn't, then Barkley will run right past everyone.

 

[Howie'81]

Yes, the Whiteout crowd and us having the #2 ranking is huuuuuuge. I have a feeling we may see a game similar to the 2002 beatdown of Nebraska.

I'd pay for my ticket twice to see that happen.

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

I tend to agree but that is kind of "old school" thinking. Houston, TCU and Wash State aren't blowing people off of the LOS. Today, that is an element but not the end all. And that is a good thing as UM's front on D is going to have a field day.

PSU is going to have to move the ball off the edge (touch with UM's athletes) or through the air. UM has a good DB but PSU is better. And if UM overly commits to stopping #26, we will move the ball. But we MUST cash in with FG's if we bog down in the red zone.

I like our D against their O. they started a new RB against Indy who gained over 200 yards but they still struggled. That RB is only 190 so isn't a power runner. Hopefully, we can get a couple of TO's with O'Korn.

Low scoring game, won with FG's, I am moving my prediction down to PSU 19 UM 10.

Could you please point out where I said we need to blow people off the ball? We are a zone team. We do little drive blocking. Our pass pro has struggled of late.

As Franklin even said this week. If you take a sack your chances of scoring drop to 10%. That's a huge impact of one sack. Let's hope coach limegrover, I guy I really respect, had a great bye week with his guys. Beat Michigan.

 

[demlion]

Not sure what game you played but there is one line of scrimmage. Different groups may line up there but there is but one.

Its called football. But you seemed to focus only on the LOS when PSU has the ball. You seem to be saying if we cannot dominate them we lose. I'm not sure it is that clear in football anymore.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Its called football. But you seemed to focus only on the LOS when PSU has the ball. You seem to be saying if we cannot dominate them we lose. I'm not sure it is that clear in football anymore.

Kind of agree. The game has evolved a bit. Not to mention UM has struggled to score against pretty much everyone with a pulse. Team sport and while they are good up front on D, there is more to it than just that one matchup.

 

[sluggo72]

Could you please point out where I said we need to blow people off the ball? We are a zone team. We do little drive blocking. Our pass pro has struggled of late.

As Franklin even said this week. If you take a sack your chances of scoring drop to 10%. That's a huge impact of one sack. Let's hope coach limegrover, I guy I really respect, had a great bye week with his guys. Beat Michigan.

Zone team?


This play is the play that bothers me. If we were a zone team, I think the RG and OC would have handled the strong shade (#1) who loops weak, the the LG and LT would take the DT that pinches inside (the whole D line slants weak or left), and then to the LBer, the TE, WB would cut off the OLB on his slant. Now we have a chance on the play. But it seems we like to trap more, and the WB (the TE off the LOS) comes back and tries to trap, I think he wanted to trap the backside DT, but #1 looped so far he ends up with him. The whole DL slants, and we cant get any of them cut off.
We need to be able to run this play better.

 

[zwick19050]

Barkley is a great back, Trace can extend plays with his legs, our secondary is better than Michigans receivers, our receivers have a height advantage over the UM DBs, we are at home, at night, with a white out.

None of that matters. This game will be won or lost at the line of scrimmage. The team that can take over the LOS will win. All that stuff above means nothing if we dont win the LOS. Unfortunately, having watched UMs last couple of games and our last three, I see no reason to believe the winner of the LOS will be PSU. UM is going to move Gary around and match him against our problem spots. Hurst will give our guards and center problems. The guy has great get off and gets leverage very well for a big inside guy. With both Mahon and Wright banged up, I just don't see how we win the LOS.

On the flip side, I think we can do OK against the UM oline. I think we force OKorn to throw and force him to beat us with his arm. The huge advantage UM has is their place kicking. Nordin is really good and very accurate from 50 in. That shortens the field for UM to get points.

I hope I'm wrong but as a former OC I know how incredibly difficult it is to scheme around oline issues. It's very rare when Xs and Os beat Jimmies and Joes. BEAT MICHIGAN

ARe you saying PSU lost to Indiana and is now 3-3? I guess PSU lost to Wisconsin last year.

"NONE of that matters." Turnovers , QB, INTs, RBs, fumbles, special teams don't matter? Sounds good on paper but in reality they do matter.


Your post is a generalization and obviously not accurate. There are many variables and PSU is 6-0 with this line. PSU won 9 straight last year with a shaky line.

You even contradict yourself. YOu start out with the game will be on at the LOS and then you go to Nordin and special teams. You finish up with the Jimmies and JOes. Jimmies and Joes are not only on the LOS.

 

[Obliviax]

Zone team?

View embedded media

This play is the play that bothers me. If we were a zone team, I think the RG and OC would have handled the strong shade (#1) who loops weak, the the LG and LT would take the DT that pinches inside (the whole D line slants weak or left), and then to the LBer, the TE, WB would cut off the OLB on his slant. Now we have a chance on the play. But it seems we like to trap more, and the WB (the TE off the LOS) comes back and tries to trap, I think he wanted to trap the backside DT, but #1 looped so far he ends up with him. The whole DL slants, and we cant get any of them cut off.
We need to be able to run this play better.

in that play, the first one, #18 gets blown up because he is slow to react to the OLB blitzing. His penetration right into the mesh point kills the play. These teams, Iowa/NW/Indy/Pitt tried this all night long. Iowa and NW have some good talent, as does Pitt at DE. Regardless, if the OLB and DE are going to slam into the mesh point, McS and the staff have to be more flexible to exploit the area behind the OLB that is wide open. We've had #88 be so wide open it was laughable, on occasion. Plus, the shovel pass in the gap between DT and DE will be massive. We've got the tools to kill this defensive scheme, just need to execute.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Our OL is probably better than UM's.
But our DL has no one in Hurst's league.
All that said, I'd be shocked if we win by less than 2 TDs

 

[PSU87]

ARe you saying PSU lost to Indiana and is now 3-3? I guess PSU lost to Wisconsin last year.

"NONE of that matters." Turnovers , QB, INTs, RBs, fumbles, special teams don't matter? Sounds good on paper but in reality they do matter.


Your post is a generalization and obviously not accurate. There are many variables and PSU is 6-0 with this line. PSU won 9 straight last year with a shaky line.

You even contradict yourself. YOu start out with the game will be on at the LOS and then you go to Nordin and special teams. You finish up with the Jimmies and JOes. Jimmies and Joes are not on the LOS.

Jimmies and Joes are not on the LOS? Who are all those guys with jersey numbers in the 50s 60s 70s and 90s?
When did this happen?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Also: Am I the only one more worried about Michigan than OSU?

IMO our secondary can man up on OSU's WRs/TEs without much of a problem leaving us the ability to commit to stopping the run. I know Barrett has put up some pretty passing stats but we aren't UNLV--he still can't throw consistently more than 10 yards past the LOS.

Defensively I don't think OSU has much this year. I see our offense being more apt to go against OSU than Michigan.

I know the game is at The Shoe & the crowd will be wild however I'm more concerned about Michigan because of their front 7.

 

[SR108]

I tend to agree but that is kind of "old school" thinking. Houston, TCU and Wash State aren't blowing people off of the LOS. Today, that is an element but not the end all. And that is a good thing as UM's front on D is going to have a field day.

PSU is going to have to move the ball off the edge (touch with UM's athletes) or through the air. UM has a good DB but PSU is better. And if UM overly commits to stopping #26, we will move the ball. But we MUST cash in with FG's if we bog down in the red zone.

I like our D against their O. they started a new RB against Indy who gained over 200 yards but they still struggled. That RB is only 190 so isn't a power runner. Hopefully, we can get a couple of TO's with O'Korn.

Low scoring game, won with FG's, I am moving my prediction down to PSU 19 UM 10.

Our receivers need to beat press coverage. I hope it does not become a field goal contest, because we could be in trouble.

 

[sluggo72]

in that play, the first one, #18 gets blown up because he is slow to react to the OLB blitzing. His penetration right into the mesh point kills the play. These teams, Iowa/NW/Indy/Pitt tried this all night long. Iowa and NW have some good talent, as does Pitt at DE. Regardless, if the OLB and DE are going to slam into the mesh point, McS and the staff have to be more flexible to exploit the area behind the OLB that is wide open. We've had #88 be so wide open it was laughable, on occasion. Plus, the shovel pass in the gap between DT and DE will be massive. We've got the tools to kill this defensive scheme, just need to execute.

And that's my point. If we had zone blocked it the OT would have been on him and the TE could have come off in the backer. The OG would have taken the DT slanting inside and the C would get off on to the front side lber
People say we zone block things, I have a had time finding that evidence

 

[PSUSignore]

Also: Am I the only one more worried about Michigan than OSU?

IMO our secondary can man up on OSU's WRs/TEs without much of a problem leaving us the ability to commit to stopping the run. I know Barrett has put up some pretty passing stats but we aren't UNLV--he still can't throw consistently more than 10 yards past the LOS.

Defensively I don't think OSU has much this year. I see our offense being more apt to go against OSU than Michigan.

I know the game is at The Shoe & the crowd will be wild however I'm more concerned about Michigan because of their front 7.

I'm more worried about OSU. While OSU's defense isn't as good as UM's, OSU's offense is significantly better. PSU will have to play well on both sides of the ball in a hostile environment to win that one. Against UM even if their defense outplays our offense we still have a chance because their offense has looked so bad at times.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

I'm more worried about OSU. While OSU's defense isn't as good as UM's, OSU's offense is significantly better. PSU will have to play well on both sides of the ball in a hostile environment to win that won. Against UM even if their defense outplays our offense we still have a chance because their offense has looked so bad at times.

Understand your point totally and can't say that I disagree.

My thoughts are if we can shut down the run, we stand a chance of killing OSU. JT Barrett is probably a worse passer than either Michigan QB.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Jimmies and Joes are not on the LOS? Who are all those guys with jersey numbers in the 50s 60s 70s and 90s?
When did this happen?

We won the B1G last year and won over an OSU team with a much better O and a comparable D to what UM has this year. All the while, our OL was no better than this year's and could best be described as patchwork. Certainly, our OL can't be worse.

UM killed us last year but PSU had a rough start of the season, and a rough start in nearly every game that mattered. UM might beat us again and if they do their front 7 will be a huge reason why. But their D alone won't do it for them. We'd have to help with poor performance AND their O would have to play much much better than they have, plus special teams.

The have a chance and they're UM--we're not great at beating them even when we should. Not sure about the betting line but I'd take PSU to win straight up.