First, we do not remotely compare at the QB position. That is painfully obvious. We also don’t have a wr that could be a backup let alone a starter for those 4 teams. That is very disappointing considering the string of good to great wrs Franklin had developed during his tenure prior to this season Our rbs, TEs, and LT could play for any of those 4 teams yesterday. On defense, while improved, the interior DL does not compare with Bama and UM. They could probably play for Texas or Washington. Our DE’s and two of our LBs could play for any of those 4 teams. Overall, a great quarterback can make up for many flaws and that’s what we don’t have. I don’t think we appreciated Clifford, who had his flaws, but could make plays. I think we beat OSU this season with a qb at Clifford’s level.
Impossible not to compare our own regular season team to the 4 playoff teams.
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Good summary. We aren't as good as we thought we were in September 2023. We had glaring weaknesses in 2023 and will be worse in 2024.
I'm glad you mentioned the interior DL, where PSU has been pedestrian with just guys for years, and Michigan, Bama, Clemson, et al have dominated recently. Those teams have bulldozers inside that crush the LOS. Our DTs are small and rather ineffective.
I do agree that our LT (Olu) can certainly start for these teams, but the rest of our OL is meh. Heavy, slow, and immobile compared to Michigan and these other teams. It all starts in the trenches before you can build outward. JF has actually recruited many high-star OL guys over several years, yet, I don't see much dominance from them. But, he has failed big time in DT's.
Agreed. I have to point out that Penix is a sixth year senior. The Alabama QB is 21 while Michigans is a 20 year old junior.
All of them have much better talent at WR than we had this year. I was impressed with their offenses overall. I mean the play calling and coaching. Much better at managing tempo and misdirection.
Also noted that Michigan played two quarterbacks to change things up
All of them have much better talent at WR than we had this year. I was impressed with their offenses overall. I mean the play calling and coaching. Much better at managing tempo and misdirection.
Also noted that Michigan played two quarterbacks to change things up
And despite our flaws, Penix at qb likely puts this PSU team into the playoffs. QB is the most important position. Washington is somewhat flawed, but has the elite QB.
Don't try to stop the suicide train with reality or reason. They are all David Jones relatives... 😂
The funny part, many on this board had major concerns about the offense dating back to WVU. We were reminded of the impressive offensive stats and Franklin was always quick to talk about the points we were scoring, the stale "complimentary" phrase was bandied about. I was aghast when Franklin termed the Illinois "a good big ten football win on the road." This offense lacked identity and fluidity from the jump. I'm hoping this new OC can perform a huge turnaround. And credit to teams like clemson and Michigan who jettisoned "good" qbs in favor of great ones in Lawrence and McCarthy. Gonna have to hold Allar to a tough standard and be prepared to move on early in the season if he isn't accurate or processing quickly.
Glaring weaknesses in September which we NEVER improved on the entire season. At QB and WR, we never developed at all.
You hit the nail on the head with the word 'identity.' After a decade under JF, I truly have no idea what his team's identity are. To me your identity are the things you can fall back on as a reliable source of yards, points, physicality, fundamentals, etc. Throw any other words in that. We don't run the ball consistently enough, don't pass it well, rarely if ever control the LOS in big games to close out teams, and primarily find ways to lose. Michigan's identity is easy to recognize. I truly think JF has little to no idea how to build a winning, sustainable roster structure. He is clueless in that regard and needs really good coordinators/assistants to win games. Outside of Manny, who was excellent, I think every position coach on the offensive staff, sans Howle with the tight ends, should be on notice. They are all overrated.
Again, what is our identity under JF besides being thoroughly outcoached and cough up big games with some of the best NFL talent currently in the league?
Agreed regarding Allar. In years past I would be ok giving a qb time to develop with training wheels and patience, but 2024 is cutthroat with the transfer portal, nil, and opt-outs. Reopen the qb competition in the spring and if AK believes Pribula is the best qb give it to him. If AK finds both Pribula and Allar to he substandard, go to the portal. The game we are in now is that a Penix level portal transfer is $2m nil.
Agreed. I like Allar and I don't blame him for all of our issues this year. It's brutal to write the following, but it is probably true : We don't know how to build an offense for a pro style QB....it's never worked under Franklin. It requires receivers that can win on the outside and an Offensive line that can hold blocks in the play action game....we just have not consistently developed either. Even Clifford was mismanaged, he was asked to run the ball(and he really grew in that regard), but that wasn't his natural skill set. Like in business, it's okay to make a mistake, but you have to move on quickly. This league gets deeper next year, if your offense doesn't match your QB's skillset, you gotta try something new....next year is a pivotal year in my mind. Having the threat of a running QB patches over a lot of your offensive issues, I'm afraid we have too many weaknesses to support an immobile QB.
If you open up a QB competition Allar walks like McCord did
Beau isn't worthy of being in an open competition right now and Ohio State is going to regret their decision as well
This whole "I want a dual threat QB" is tiresome.
Penix is a really special talent to be sure, but the Washington receivers are amazing. They are big and super strong and they catch absolutely everything. A 50-50 ball is like a 95% chance of completion with those guys. Someone pointed out they probably have more talent at wideout than the Chiefs right now.
So yeah, PSU could win with a better QB but they also would have been a very different team with receivers who can go up and get a football.
By the time AK finds them substandard (if he does), it would be too late for 2024. Need to make decisions now, which is why Kyle McCord is no longer a buckeye.
Rome Odunze is a game changer--all QBs need a guy like that to look the way Pennix looks now.
I dislike Michigan but Harbaugh is a great coach. He has won at Stanford and now Michigan. As far as star ranking Harbaugh is recruiting at the level of Franklin, but it is obvious Harbaugh is MUCH better evaluating talent than Franklin.
Franklin is NOT a "great recruiter" as everyone says. He is just an average recruiter IMO.
Franklin is NOT a "great recruiter" as everyone says. He is just an average recruiter IMO.
Why haven't we?
Let's not play this all day, we have not been able to scheme games with QB's that aren't a significant run threat. Even with MY, who apparently was the best and brightest at doing so....it's never worked.
One of the things i noted in the bowl was Singleton. We started the game with two very good drives. Every running play got 5 or more yards. Yet, when we passed the ball, we either got a penalty or the incompletion put us behind the sticks. It appeared to me that we had an opportunity to stick Ole Miss early but squandered that opportunity which let the offense exert themselves and defense gain stability. I am all for throwing on first down but not after we just got six strait rushes for 6+ yards. It was like we just had to pass because we put the notion of balancing the offense above being an effective offense. Let the game dictate the plan. Michigan ran ever single play in the second half to beat us. Why? Because running worked better! Genius.
The big difference between PSU and the 4 plus Georgia is coaching and the LOS… it was interesting to hear Kiffin say that when they played Bama and Georgia the sheer size of those linemen made him go out and get some big guys in the portal. That’s where the games are won and lost. PSU doesn’t stack up and never has. It shows in big games.
Why haven't we is a coaching issue, right? Did Franklin not allow MY to run his offense?
If AK can't scheme for Allar he shouldn't have been hired.
Why do you think we can't?
Well that is the $64 question, no? I just know we haven't, empirically. So if the goal is to win, and win now, considering our changes to the o-line next year, I don't think we morph into a dominant pro style offense by next year. We haven't done it in 10 years. What new receivers are coming into the program next year? We are going to have to be a RPO based offense with a QB who is a threat to run the ball, I believe. If that QB is a "lesser" QB, then so be it. The offense seemed a little more explosive with that "lesser" QB btw.
If he's an average recruiter then he's producing above average results with average talent. Are you saying he's a great game day coach or that he's great at coaching his talent up?
Actually, it seemed to me that the QB and WRs got worse as the year progressed. Where was KLS the last 5 games or so? He vanished.
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Hindsight being 20/20, our playbook got incrementally smaller throughout the season. Go back to that WVU game and you will see formations and plays that were used less and less until some disappeared completely.
Illinois scared our staff and they never came out of the shell.
It felt like the "no ints" talking point became a hinderance or was an indication of a problem with the offensive approach.
You need to take some risks and sometimes those risks result in turnovers. Not apples to apples but look at the Browns with Flacco. He's thrown 8 picks in 5 starts but they're 4-1 because he puts pressure on the D. He's thrown 13 touchdowns and averaging over 300 yards passing. They could play more conservatively to try and reduce the number of ints but they're not 4-1 if he does that.
You make a great point by identifying the biggest difference between Penn State and a top tier program like Michigan. Evaluation of talent. Michigan and Ohio State are excellent at talent evaluation.
When you look at the WRs recruited by Penn State, the high failure rate this year tells me there is a huge deficiency in player evaluation. This deficiency was also evident in the Penn State portal WRs who were non factors and huge disappointments.
Then no QB should ever sign here knowing that being the better QB doesn't have value.
Our offense isn't more explosive with him. He's running gadget plays. You can't run an offense around that.
As a gentle and friendly reminder, Clifford had his chance and lost to Ohio State in a very winnable game at home in 2022. A game where Penn State had a 4th quarter lead. Those 4 turnovers are etched in history.
The ... United... Wont shell out the cash...they are United only in chasing a fairytale in a money takes all time. You want to buy a QB for $2 million... You better start your own PSU NIL organization.
I was green with envy of Washington, in seeing Mike Penix, Jr. dissect the UT secondary.
No question...JF's standoffish and over-emphasizing the INT's for Allar was just a cover. The offense rarely, if ever, threw the ball deep downfield in every game, and the play-calling was indicative of short throws and dump offs. Allar would have been (and every offense would be better) attempting to stretch the field, removing defenders in the box by showing some sort of willingness to throw deep. Hence, enabling to run better by showing the defense more things. If Drew simply had some deep throws and was more aggressive, and say had 4 or 5 INTs, that is way better than the crap we saw. JF babies his players and we can see that by the lack of hard coaching, accountability for guys not performing, and this incessant need to point out how clean the offense plays. The offense was absolute cheeks with no flow, rhythm or identity all year.
Agree on your first point, Penn State has been Hell for QB development for as long as I can remember, pre-Franklin too.
Strongly disagree on your second point. I don't think Beau has been mostly running "gadget" plays. He has been productive at the end of games this year and his running ability set up a beautiful pass to Singleton in the bowl game. That is what running QB's can do to the defense. Lamar doesn't run gadget plays down in Baltimore. Now, I do wish the coaches allowed more passing and traditional style plays from Beau to learn if he can do those with consistency. Take Will Levis as an example, nobody knew if he could throw because our coaches only played him to be a battering ram....turns out he has an NFL arm and is one of the top 32 QB's in the world.
Gotta agree with Ram2020 on this one.
Let's assume Allar is a generational talent at QB. Let's agree that he is more talented than pribula.
As you correctly note, there is a serious coaching issue. Franklin has never had any success with a pro-style QB. You may recall that Trave was kept in the pocket and struggled until the 2nd half vs Pitt when everything changed. Allar is never gonna be that guy. Allar should not be running a shotgun rpo offense. The question is why JF runs the same O regardless of the personnel. The bigger question is how a $7M/yr football coach recruits a 5* QB who is obviously not a runner and then runs an offense that needs a legit QB run threat to be successful.
As I've said many times, Franklin is everything you want in a CFB coach, except the actual FB coaching. I used to hope that he would grow in certain areas, like situational game management, but now I believe he has hit his Peter Principle and this is what we get.
Well said, exactly. Whether he is the "better" QB is immaterial, he doesn't fit the system that Franklin and our previous 5 coordinators have employed. Is that all changing this off-season? Sure, fine, but considering our attrition on the offensive line and the fact that no game breaker receivers appear to be walking through the door, I'm not sure how that works exactly. At least with a running QB we create an offensive threat otherwise non existent today.
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