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Thoughts on Project Rudy?

Richie O

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Mar 21, 2016
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it is clear that there has to be a collective bargaining agreement with some kind of player association for college football. If not, the NCAA will continue to lose claims against NLB rules of employee/employer rights. And if you think about it, the player rights for the top-tier programs are totally different than for lower divisions. For example, I watched a little of the Nevada San Jose St. game last night. The stadium looked like a TX high school stadium and probably wasn't even half full. I think they probably had, maybe, 10,000 people. That isn't going to cut it financially when colleges start to fork out payrolls along with NIL and other expenses.

My point here is that you are going to have to create tiers. And that leads you to some number. 40, 50, 60, 70? I don't know. But it does make sense to align the # of conferences with the number of playoff spots open so the winner of each conference gets a spot in the playoff. So you pick a number that equates with the school's ability to draw enough to sustain the revenue needed along with the number of playoff spots. Honestly, I think that number is closer to 40 than 70 but I suspect they are trying to appease every school in the B1G and SEC to get buy in.

The next issue is what @lazydave841 is asking. What is the carrot or stick to get these schools to sign up and get on board? Why not just keep the B1G and SEC? There can only be two answers. The first is does the NCAA have the chops to entice them? The second is what do the TV networks want? I don't know the answer to those questions. We may simply see both the SEC and B1G expand to 60 teams and then have ten six team divisions. Each winner gets a playoff spot and two teams get at large bids.

But something is going to happen. The current setup isn't sustainable, IMHO>
 
it is clear that there has to be a collective bargaining agreement with some kind of player association for college football. If not, the NCAA will continue to lose claims against NLB rules of employee/employer rights. And if you think about it, the player rights for the top-tier programs are totally different than for lower divisions. For example, I watched a little of the Nevada San Jose St. game last night. The stadium looked like a TX high school stadium and probably wasn't even half full. I think they probably had, maybe, 10,000 people. That isn't going to cut it financially when colleges start to fork out payrolls along with NIL and other expenses.

My point here is that you are going to have to create tiers. And that leads you to some number. 40, 50, 60, 70? I don't know. But it does make sense to align the # of conferences with the number of playoff spots open so the winner of each conference gets a spot in the playoff. So you pick a number that equates with the school's ability to draw enough to sustain the revenue needed along with the number of playoff spots. Honestly, I think that number is closer to 40 than 70 but I suspect they are trying to appease every school in the B1G and SEC to get buy in.

The next issue is what @lazydave841 is asking. What is the carrot or stick to get these schools to sign up and get on board? Why not just keep the B1G and SEC? There can only be two answers. The first is does the NCAA have the chops to entice them? The second is what do the TV networks want? I don't know the answer to those questions. We may simply see both the SEC and B1G expand to 60 teams and then have ten six team divisions. Each winner gets a playoff spot and two teams get at large bids.

But something is going to happen. The current setup isn't sustainable, IMHO>
Well said...I still think 8 divisions of 8 with the top 3 teams for each makes rhe most sense if we go over 40 or so programs. 40 works still as a 12 team playoff. 4 conferences of 10...each auto spots. Lots of potential for fun but we'll see.
 
It does not seem like the power 2 is very interested in working with the rest of college football. There’s a reason the two are meeting this week privately. When the SEC commissioner is the voice of reason, you know we are strange times - “I’ve been interested in some of these (college football) league ideas that are generated out of Manhattan, as I see it,” Sankey said at SEC spring meetings. “Never mention academics in their pitch deck. It’s fascinating. Never once say anything about a young person’s education. Not a lot of evaluation about who benefits from this participation, about the level of control that’s ceded by public universities to private equity.”
You know he is absolutely spot on. Why should public universities give up autonomy to private equity coming out of New York or LA? The article specifically mentions us and OSU/UM regarding the possibilities of just leaving the current Conference structures and moving with a relatively few others to an elite league, acknowledging there are makers and takers in the power 2, and PSU is a maker. Why should a maker like PSU give up control to private equity to participate in one of these 70-136 proposed leagues like project Rudy to ensure the well-being of dozens and dozens of schools who produce very little attendance and tv viewership? We already produce enough revenue to handle our own business. Is it our responsibility to ensure the well-being of the Virginia’s and UNLVs who per the actual numbers generate little interest in their own states let alone nationally. Sankey says it best regarding broader super leagues - “They want to be us, and that’s on them to figure it out, not on me to bring myself back to earth.”
 
It does not seem like the power 2 is very interested in working with the rest of college football. There’s a reason the two are meeting this week privately. When the SEC commissioner is the voice of reason, you know we are strange times - “I’ve been interested in some of these (college football) league ideas that are generated out of Manhattan, as I see it,” Sankey said at SEC spring meetings. “Never mention academics in their pitch deck. It’s fascinating. Never once say anything about a young person’s education. Not a lot of evaluation about who benefits from this participation, about the level of control that’s ceded by public universities to private equity.”
You know he is absolutely spot on. Why should public universities give up autonomy to private equity coming out of New York or LA? The article specifically mentions us and OSU/UM regarding the possibilities of just leaving the current Conference structures and moving with a relatively few others to an elite league, acknowledging there are makers and takers in the power 2, and PSU is a maker. Why should a maker like PSU give up control to private equity to participate in one of these 70-136 proposed leagues like project Rudy to ensure the well-being of dozens and dozens of schools who produce very little attendance and tv viewership? We already produce enough revenue to handle our own business. Is it our responsibility to ensure the well-being of the Virginia’s and UNLVs who per the actual numbers generate little interest in their own states let alone nationally. Sankey says it best regarding broader super leagues - “They want to be us, and that’s on them to figure it out, not on me to bring myself back to earth.”
yeah...it is a problem. The SEC and B1G hold their reigns of power and aren't going to give that up without compensation.

Having said that, football is completely unique. There has to be a massive investment to make football at this level, work. There are only a few schools that have programs to sustain this level of investment. Everyone else, then, becomes a different matter lest college football go the way of major league baseball. You'll have a half dozen "haves," and the rest are hoping against hope that they can find lightning in a bottle for a year and steal a championship. You can feel Bob Costas, for example, praying the WS comes down to the NYY and the LA Dodgers.

With private money and NIL, a national championship will simply be a bidding war. They've got to find a way to be able to make more than five or six teams competitive in terms of a Natty.
 
yeah...it is a problem. The SEC and B1G hold their reigns of power and aren't going to give that up without compensation.

Having said that, football is completely unique. There has to be a massive investment to make football at this level, work. There are only a few schools that have programs to sustain this level of investment. Everyone else, then, becomes a different matter lest college football go the way of major league baseball. You'll have a half dozen "haves," and the rest are hoping against hope that they can find lightning in a bottle for a year and steal a championship. You can feel Bob Costas, for example, praying the WS comes down to the NYY and the LA Dodgers.

With private money and NIL, a national championship will simply be a bidding war. They've got to find a way to be able to make more than five or six teams competitive in terms of a Natty.
Has it ever been competitive beyond five or six teams in the last 50 years? Not often.
 
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Has it ever been competitive beyond five or six teams in the last 50 years? Not often.
IT has. If you go back before cable TV, before the early 2000s, it was fairly competitive. Starting in 2000

  • OK (2000)
  • FSU
  • Tenn
  • UM/NE tied
  • Florida
  • Neb
  • Neb
  • FSU
  • AL
  • Washington/Miami tied
  • Colorado GTech Tied
  • Miami
  • ND
  • Miami
  • PSU
  • OK
  • BYU
  • Miami
  • PSU
  • Clemson
  • GA (1980)
 
IT has. If you go back before cable TV, before the early 2000s, it was fairly competitive. Starting in 2000

  • OK (2000)
  • FSU
  • Tenn
  • UM/NE tied
  • Florida
  • Neb
  • Neb
  • FSU
  • AL
  • Washington/Miami tied
  • Colorado GTech Tied
  • Miami
  • ND
  • Miami
  • PSU
  • OK
  • BYU
  • Miami
  • PSU
  • Clemson
  • GA (1980)
There’s different teams there, but each year they were really only a few teams that were super competitive similar to today. Miami, Nebraska, Florida, FSU, PSU, OSU, ND, OK, Bama, Georgia dominated eras with only a few teams truly able to compete for a title each year. Single schools have owned entire cfb for periods of time like Bama recently or Nebraska in the past. Most had great traditions and some were paying players. Here is an aggregate ranking from Yahoo for the 80s for example. The powers listed are little different than the powers listed today other than the order and Nebraska falling from the pinnacle.

Coaches Poll: 1980 to 1989 Final All-Time College Football Rankings​

1 Nebraska 194​

2 Miami 149​

3 Oklahoma 148​

T4 Michigan 135​

T4 Penn State 135​

6 Florida State 134​

7 UCLA 129​

8 Auburn 123​

9 Alabama 120​

10 Georgia 113​

11 Ohio State 106​

12 BYU 91​

13 USC 87​

14 Washington 86​

15 Clemson 81​

16 Pittsburgh 79​

17 Arkansas 78​

18 Iowa 72​

19 LSU 67​

20 Notre Dame 64​

21 SMU 63​

22 Oklahoma State 58​

22 Texas 58​

24 Tennessee 56​

25 West Virginia 54​

 
There’s different teams there, but each year they were really only a few teams that were super competitive similar to today. Miami, Nebraska, Florida, FSU, PSU, OSU, ND, OK, Bama, Georgia dominated eras with only a few teams truly able to compete for a title each year. Single schools have owned entire cfb for periods of time like Bama recently or Nebraska in the past. Most had great traditions and some were paying players. Here is an aggregate ranking from Yahoo for the 80s for example. The powers listed are little different than the powers listed today other than the order and Nebraska falling from the pinnacle.

Coaches Poll: 1980 to 1989 Final All-Time College Football Rankings​

1 Nebraska 194​

2 Miami 149​

3 Oklahoma 148​

T4 Michigan 135​

T4 Penn State 135​

6 Florida State 134​

7 UCLA 129​

8 Auburn 123​

9 Alabama 120​

10 Georgia 113​

11 Ohio State 106​

12 BYU 91​

13 USC 87​

14 Washington 86​

15 Clemson 81​

16 Pittsburgh 79​

17 Arkansas 78​

18 Iowa 72​

19 LSU 67​

20 Notre Dame 64​

21 SMU 63​

22 Oklahoma State 58​

22 Texas 58​

24 Tennessee 56​

25 West Virginia 54​

OK...whatever
 
OK...whatever
College football has always been the haves and have Nots and always will be no matter what system is proposed. Compensation has always been part of it as well at some schools, essentially creating the effect of buying success.
 
College football has always been the haves and have Nots and always will be no matter what system is proposed. Compensation has always been part of it as well at some schools, essentially creating the effect of buying success.
He just doesn't like change so he's pretending things are worse now. Look at recent teams that made a four team playoff including TCU and Cincinnati. Their logic is wrong.
 
You are missing the elephant in the room. It’s called Project Rudy for a reason. Notre Dame realizes they screwed them selves getting tied to the weak ACC. This is their out.

Bet if you could look around this was seeded by either ND itself or some ND super fans with power to get it done.
 
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You are missing the elephant in the room. It’s called Project Rudy for a reason. Notre Dame realizes they screwed them selves getting tied to the weak ACC. This is their out.

Bet if you could look around this was seeded by either ND itself or some ND super fans with power to get it done.
And why would the SEC or Big Ten help bail out ND? I don't disagree ND is likely a driving force behind this but they're powerless and they know it. Two commissioners control everything
 
And why would the SEC or Big Ten help bail out ND? I don't disagree ND is likely a driving force behind this but they're powerless and they know it. Two commissioners control everything
Maybe behind the scenes, Notre Dame holds a lot more power than fans realize. Maybe they know information about people or organizations that could get those involved in big-big trouble and thus use that knowledge to get what they want. Anything is possible when it comes to billion-dollar industries.
 
Isn’t the unequal distribution the big problem now?

FSU and Clemson can’t stay in the ACC because they’re getting $38 million per year while the SEC/ Big Ten are getting $60 million per year. They fear falling behind and not being able to compete.

So why would teams agree to a tier 1 group of 16 getting $130 million, with the next 22 schools in tier 2 getting $60- 110 million (big range there) and the final 32 schools in tier 3 at $30-60 million?

And who decides which schools are in the top 16? Between Alabama, Georgia, Texas, LSU, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Clemson, Florida State, Florida, Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, Oregon, Washington, USC, Miami, Notre Dame, Texas A&M, etc your going to have some in tier 2. Who is out? Who decides which teams get relegated/ promoted each year?
 
He just doesn't like change so he's pretending things are worse now. Look at recent teams that made a four team playoff including TCU and Cincinnati. Their logic is wrong.
I understand his concern and I share it as well, but I don’t hold any fantasy in my mind about what has been in this sport for decades - domination by a few schools in each era and payments to players. The payments have been going on for decades, happening illegally before at some schools and only now is legal for all.
 
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I understand his concern and I share it as well, but I don’t hold any fantasy in my mind about what has been in this sport for decades - domination by a few schools in each era and payments to players. The payments have been going on for decades, happening illegally before at some schools and only now is legal for all.
Not liking it is fine...and understandable
It only becomes an issue when it prevents someone from discussing things without that bias
The tiers in college football havent changed...at least not so far
 
Has it ever been competitive beyond five or six teams in the last 50 years? Not often.
Well, I would be interested to know...I tried to check and I count 21 different winners in the past 50 years...many of them won numerous-georgia, alabama, lsu, clemson, ohio state, florida state, auburn, florida, texas, southern cal, miami, oklahoma, nebraska, michigan, tennessee, washington, colorado, georgia tech, notre dame, bringham young, pittsburgh
 
Well, I would be interested to know...I tried to check and I count 21 different winners in the past 50 years...many of them won numerous-georgia, alabama, lsu, clemson, ohio state, florida state, auburn, florida, texas, southern cal, miami, oklahoma, nebraska, michigan, tennessee, washington, colorado, georgia tech, notre dame, bringham young, pittsburgh
But they weren't all good at the same time. Nothing changes. There's still going to be elite programs then teams that make runs. See Iowa State this year. Or TCU/Cincinnati/Michigan State making the playoff.
 
Well, I would be interested to know...I tried to check and I count 21 different winners in the past 50 years...many of them won numerous-georgia, alabama, lsu, clemson, ohio state, florida state, auburn, florida, texas, southern cal, miami, oklahoma, nebraska, michigan, tennessee, washington, colorado, georgia tech, notre dame, bringham young, pittsburgh
Each year there are perhaps 5 or 6 teams, typically out of the winners you list, that are elite (and sometimes less, maybe 2 or 3.) The rest, well greater than 100 schools, literally have no shot whatsoever. That will never change.
 
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