THOUGHTS?????????????
- Thread starter Michael.Felli
- Start date
My thought is war is hell.
Try reading flyboys. It's just a taste of how the Japanese behaved during that time.
Try reading flyboys. It's just a taste of how the Japanese behaved during that time.
I do not accept that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender however I do accept that an ulterior motive of the bombs was to keep the Soviets out of postwar Japan. Between the lives saved and keeping the Soviets from dividing Japan as they did Germany (possibly leading to a war in Japan similar to the Korean war?) those two bombs were the best thing to ever happen to Japan.
The article is a stretch at best. Truman's decisionmaking process has been well documented. There was no complex agenda. He wanted to end the war and bring the GIs home.
The Japanese were NOT anywhere close to surrender, and would have defended their home island tenaciously. The propaganda was such that Japanese civilians would have fought to the last man rather than let the barbarian Americans (who their propaganda depicted as an inferior, animalistic race) enter their homeland. Remember this Emperor and Japanese society had supported the incredibly horrific invasion of Manchuria -- they expected the Americans would be even more brutal than they had been in Nanking.
Truman was faced with an amphibious landing that would have been 10x as bloody as Normandy. They were looking at another 100-200k American lives lost, and probably half a million Japanese lives lost because the air bombardments to support the landing would have had to be tremendous.
Granted Truman and his advisers couldn't fully appreciate the significance of using nuclear weapons. We have the benefit of hindsight. But apparently for Truman this was not a tough decision at all. His goal was primarily to save American lives given how many lives had already been lost in Europe and in the Pacific.
Remember the Japanese had no idea the Americans had only two bombs. That was the most important secret of the whole war. The use of the bombs in quick succession was a gamble to try to fool the Emperor into thinking the Americans had a whole arsenal of nuclear weapons. And it worked.
There's absolutely no evidence the Emperor was inclined to surrender before Hiroshima. In fact he didn't make any move to surrender AFTER Hiroshima. But right after Nagasaki of course he stepped in, overruled his military government and the war was over.
Without the Emperor's decision to surrender, the invasion of Japan might have added another year to the war and cost at least another half a million lives -- and maybe in excess of a million.
The Japanese were NOT anywhere close to surrender, and would have defended their home island tenaciously. The propaganda was such that Japanese civilians would have fought to the last man rather than let the barbarian Americans (who their propaganda depicted as an inferior, animalistic race) enter their homeland. Remember this Emperor and Japanese society had supported the incredibly horrific invasion of Manchuria -- they expected the Americans would be even more brutal than they had been in Nanking.
Truman was faced with an amphibious landing that would have been 10x as bloody as Normandy. They were looking at another 100-200k American lives lost, and probably half a million Japanese lives lost because the air bombardments to support the landing would have had to be tremendous.
Granted Truman and his advisers couldn't fully appreciate the significance of using nuclear weapons. We have the benefit of hindsight. But apparently for Truman this was not a tough decision at all. His goal was primarily to save American lives given how many lives had already been lost in Europe and in the Pacific.
Remember the Japanese had no idea the Americans had only two bombs. That was the most important secret of the whole war. The use of the bombs in quick succession was a gamble to try to fool the Emperor into thinking the Americans had a whole arsenal of nuclear weapons. And it worked.
There's absolutely no evidence the Emperor was inclined to surrender before Hiroshima. In fact he didn't make any move to surrender AFTER Hiroshima. But right after Nagasaki of course he stepped in, overruled his military government and the war was over.
Without the Emperor's decision to surrender, the invasion of Japan might have added another year to the war and cost at least another half a million lives -- and maybe in excess of a million.
If the japaneese were so willing to surrender why didn't they right after the first bomb? wasn't there a week or two between bombings? Secondly I take with a grain of salt all these generals who wanted to continue conventional fighting. At what cost to Allied GI's?
I do think we could have and should have accomplished the same result [regardless of the reason] had we bombed less populated areas.
As horrible as those bombs were, the tragedy of those bombs has probably preclude any other nuclear bombs for the next 70 years. [fingers crossed for another 70]
I do think we could have and should have accomplished the same result [regardless of the reason] had we bombed less populated areas.
As horrible as those bombs were, the tragedy of those bombs has probably preclude any other nuclear bombs for the next 70 years. [fingers crossed for another 70]
Total BS. Why did the Japanese not surrender after Hiroshima and wait until after Nagasaki? They were asked to surrender after Hiroshima and refused.
I guess one can postulate that they were 'ready to surrender', but Potsdam was at the end of July and came with a refusal by Japan to surrender. Hiroshima was 8-6 1945. The soviets invaded Manchuria on 8-8. Nagasaki was hit on 8-9. Japan petitioned for peace the next day with the agreement being signed 10-2.
So I am left to ask, what was "political" about the dropping of the bomb? A message to the Soviets? Well, that would be military too. As we learned, our lack of presence when europe and the middle east were carved up cost millions of lives over the next 70 years. FDR was frail and not up to it, Truman was still trying to gain a foothold.
I guess one can postulate that they were 'ready to surrender', but Potsdam was at the end of July and came with a refusal by Japan to surrender. Hiroshima was 8-6 1945. The soviets invaded Manchuria on 8-8. Nagasaki was hit on 8-9. Japan petitioned for peace the next day with the agreement being signed 10-2.
So I am left to ask, what was "political" about the dropping of the bomb? A message to the Soviets? Well, that would be military too. As we learned, our lack of presence when europe and the middle east were carved up cost millions of lives over the next 70 years. FDR was frail and not up to it, Truman was still trying to gain a foothold.
Yes the choice of targets and timing was very intentional on the Americans' part. The Japanese leadership was messianic in nature in the same way that the Germans had been with Hitler -- only the Emperor was not nearly as powerful as Hitler, and the Emperor's generals were crazier than Hitler's generals. The choice of targets was partly strategic -- both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were at the center of Japan's war machine.
But the targeting was also psychological. Hiroshima, then Nagasaki -- then the Japanese would conclude that Nagoya or Osaka or Kyoto would be next -- and then Tokyo.
It was the combination of shock AND anticipation that did it. As horrific as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, the Japanese military would absolutely have fought on except the Americans gave the impression that they would keep dropping these bombs every week until all of Japan looked like Hiroshima. It was the thought of THAT that was horrifying enough to get the Emperor to act. And even so, apparently it was touch and go for a while whether the Emperor would be able to overrule the Japanese military -- because the Japanese military did not have surrender in their vocabulary. War and religion were basically the same thing to them.
Won't deny that, but history says that Hiroshima was chosen inflight after choices A & B were deemed to be at risk due to weather. Weather prediction was not much more than a guess at the time. See link.
Um, that was Nagasaki..... According to your source
"Hiroshima was the primary target of the first atomic bomb mission. The mission went smoothly in every respect. The weather was good, and the crew and equipment functioned perfectly. In every detail, the attack was carried out exactly as planned, and the bomb performed exactly as expected."
But I will say that the OP brought this topic up a month or so ago and it was beaten to death then. Let's not repeat that error.
