Top 3 freestyle changes - wish list

[GogglesPaizano]

I remain a folkstyle biggot by a wide margin, and at times have an anamous for Free, but the more I watch (thank you magic man), the more I tolerate it, with the Olympics starting to creep into the disvussion I will be enjoying more and more. Likewise as with Frank and DT, how else will we be able to enjoy Zain, Nolf, Nickal and others in the coming years. What are the top three changes you would like to see to make it more enjoyable?

Mine are:
1) no more wins by criteria, a hard earned tie deserves extra time/sudden death/an extra period.

2) a sequence Max of 6 points - although fewer examples at worlds, seeing a takedown and leg lace or gutt lead to 10 points and a TF in the first minute of the match due to a single move in a word sucks.

3) the passivity rules need rework (not sure how), too much of an opportunity for referee mischief in it's current form.

BTW the pendulum swings both ways, I think push outs 'might' be something folk should consider however I like wrestling at the edge and keeping a toe in.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I remain a folkstyle biggot by a wide margin, and at times have an anamous for Free, but the more I watch (thank you magic man), the more I tolerate it, with the Olympics starting to creep into the disvussion I will be enjoying more and more. Likewise as with Frank and DT, how else will we be able to enjoy Zain, Nolf, Nickal and others in the coming years. What are the top three changes you would like to see to make it more enjoyable?

Mine are:
1) no more wins by criteria, a hard earned tie deserves extra time/sudden death/an extra period.

2) a sequence Max of 6 points - although fewer examples at worlds, seeing a takedown and leg lace or gutt lead to 10 points and a TF in the first minute of the match due to a single move in a word sucks.

3) the passivity rules need rework (not sure how), too much of an opportunity for referee mischief in it's current form.

BTW the pendulum swings both ways, I think push outs 'might' be something folk should consider however I like wrestling at the edge and keeping a toe in.

Use the World Championship weights for the Olympics. I would add that instead of number 2. I like where your head is at though. Maybe on a lace the first turn is worth 2 and the rest in the same move are worth 1? That'll never happen, but it is broken that a single move can end a match w/o a pin.

 

[SWPA]

1.2.3. Go to Folkstyle.

 

[dicemen99]

I remain a folkstyle biggot by a wide margin, and at times have an anamous for Free, but the more I watch (thank you magic man), the more I tolerate it, with the Olympics starting to creep into the disvussion I will be enjoying more and more. Likewise as with Frank and DT, how else will we be able to enjoy Zain, Nolf, Nickal and others in the coming years. What are the top three changes you would like to see to make it more enjoyable?

Mine are:
1) no more wins by criteria, a hard earned tie deserves extra time/sudden death/an extra period.

2) a sequence Max of 6 points - although fewer examples at worlds, seeing a takedown and leg lace or gutt lead to 10 points and a TF in the first minute of the match due to a single move in a word sucks.

3) the passivity rules need rework (not sure how), too much of an opportunity for referee mischief in it's current form.

BTW the pendulum swings both ways, I think push outs 'might' be something folk should consider however I like wrestling at the edge and keeping a toe in.

I have no problems with criteria - it's not a tie, it's a win. Higher scoring moves are more important and the first criteria. Last point scored creates action. Why do we want an extra period? Because we are used to it?

As you point out, at the highest levels, big sequences are rare. About as rare as the Sadaluev pin. Are we going to change the rules because of things that happen at the Cadet level or when there is a dominant wrestler? No need for change.

Passivity rarely comes into play in a match except for the HWTs. The late match caution and 1s do, but changing the rules on that may lead to excessive running during the last 30 seconds - nobody wants to see that. The real problem is the cultural view of ethics in certain countries that have a significant presence in officiating on the world stage. It's not the same as ours. I'm not sure how that is overcome.

The freestyle rules are the best they have been in a very long time.

 

[dicemen99]

1.2.3. Go to Folkstyle.

Would you be ok with going to the folkstyle practiced in Sweden as the international standard? We have our own version of wrestling that we love. This is fine, we don't need the rest of the world to embrace it.

 

[y2jriden]

Use the World Championship weights for the Olympics.

Yes, this is what needs to happen.

 

[nerfstate]

1. No cheating (lol)
2. Full consolation bracket whenever possible (olympics a tough ask right now).
3. 10 Weights (Sorry Greco)
4. More weight given to bonus.
5. Correct throw has got to go

 

[RD41]

I hope the pushout is not added to folk. I am not sure how that fits into folk rules, which are about control. In my opinion the pushout does not show enough control of an opponent to award a point in folk.

As for free, I just wish there was more consistency in the application of the shot clock. In theory it seems like a good rule but the application has been suspect. Of course, plenty of the officiating in free is suspect.

 

[nerfstate]

I'm 100% a fan of both styles, love how they compliment each other, both for me as a fan and for our athletes. I get why Free is more appealing to the young talent out there--and maybe Folk isn't for everyone. Yianni doesn't have to wrestle in college if he doesn't want to, etc.

 

[nitlion6]

There is a question as to how the push out would impact US folk style, but watching kids stand in the middle and wrestle is certainly entertaining.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I like mat wrestling, I like takedowns!
- change exposure moves like folkstyle - one exposure per 'move', so leg lace is good for one exposure
- I like what John Smith was saying about the one ref - he talks to much!.... We need to figure out how to take a lot of the ref stuff out of play.. but that is hard when one will cheat as much as possible...

 

[NittanyLion84]

After a TD, instead of giving the guy 10 seconds to get a turn, why not put him on the clock and give him 1 minute or until the end of the period, whichever comes first. Freestyle is too focused on TD’s, need to get more guys trying to work for a pin or turn points. I’d also only award points once for a turn, force the top guy to release the hold and work for another, before awarding additional turn points.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

1.2.3. Go to Folkstyle.

Yeah, because the metric system.

 

[Cowbell Man]

1. No cheating (lol)
2. Full consolation bracket whenever possible (olympics a tough ask right now).
3. 10 Weights (Sorry Greco)
4. More weight given to bonus.
5. Correct throw has got to go

I’m in on all of these. Olympics have plenty of time to work out a full bracket.

Passivity should also have the other wrestler on the watch for basically blocking during the 30 seconds.

The limit on the leg lace and turns...agree. We limit the same thing by making wrestlers release before gaining more than 4 back points....effectively stopping a one move TF.

I also agree the rules are the best they’ve ever been, but that doesn’t mean they are where they need to be. Seriously...correct throw...top 3 stupidest rule in sports.

 

[NoVa Lion]

1. No cheating (lol)
2. Full consolation bracket whenever possible (olympics a tough ask right now).
3. 10 Weights (Sorry Greco)
4. More weight given to bonus.
5. Correct throw has got to go

The passivity calls need a LOT of work, as I often can't figure out why they are calling it. Also, why do they have to blow the whistle and stop the match to call passivity, warn about fingers, etc. One of the things I liked about freestyle was after they added the pushout rule there very few stoppages. Now the ref is blowing the whistle stopping the match every 10 seconds it seems.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I do not at all like the pushout rule. It often seems like a guy initiates an attack but proceeds to walk the guy out of bounds rather than create a scoring opportunity that involves risk. I equate this to the folkstyle riding time garbage. I would like to see folkstyle make a takedown worth 3 and an escape worth one and a reversal also worth 3 ( I would love to hear coaches yell 1 not 3). Get rid of riding time. keep the one point rule for fleeing a hold by going out of bounds, or better yet just award the takedown if only the out of bounds saved the defensive wrestler.

 

[El-Jefe]

Nerf + Cowbell + NoVa +

UWW badly needs to fix the seeding process. Only in Bizarro UWW World can Cox finish 3rd in the world the past 2 years and be unseeded, drawing the #2 seed. Cox should have been the #2 seed (or higher), not drawn the #2 seed.

Not doing so means they're not serious, which means they should at least bring back the Mongolian Burlesque Show. And let the Russian opponents' coaches pack heat on the mat.

 

[a_mshaffer]

forgot about the 'correct throw' BS

 

[dicemen99]

Nerf + Cowbell + NoVa +

UWW badly needs to fix the seeding process. Only in Bizarro UWW World can Cox finish 3rd in the world the past 2 years and be unseeded, drawing the #2 seed. Cox should have been the #2 seed (or higher), not drawn the #2 seed.

Not doing so means they're not serious, which means they should at least bring back the Mongolian Burlesque Show. And let the Russian opponents' coaches pack heat on the mat.

This is probably the only suggestion on this thread regarding rules and procedures I could really get behind (obviously no one could be against more weight classes and no cheating). This would fix the big complaint about repechage. Repechage is not the worst thing in the world if a bracket is set up properly. No requirement that one gets a mulligan because they had a bad match. Of course, getting this also might not be beneficial to the long term health of the sport internationally so there is another valid point of view on this.

Freestyle is different than US folk style. The criteria for passivity is not the same we use for stalling in folk. If people understood this, they wouldn't have so many issues with it. I don't find it particularly hard to figure out who is going to get passivity called on them. And I'm quite sure that I'm in agreement with passivity calls at major international events more than I am with stalling calls at a HS level.

Hate to sound like Foley, but I even understand the rationale behind correct throw.

It's a different set of rules for a style that values certain techniques differently than folk. If you just want to change it to folk, there's not much point in the discussion. Just say you don't care for it and move on. Most of the world is not in that camp.

Again, IMO the current rule set is the best we've seen in a very long time. El jefe s point is on the mark, although it has a caveat. I could also see a tweak allowing slightly more time to work in par terre but not a minute as suggested above.

 

[a_mshaffer]

This is probably the only suggestion on this thread regarding rules and procedures I could really get behind (obviously no one could be against more weight classes and no cheating). This would fix the big complaint about repechage. Repechage is not the worst thing in the world if a bracket is set up properly. No requirement that one gets a mulligan because they had a bad match. Of course, getting this also might not be beneficial to the long term health of the sport internationally so there is another valid point of view on this.

Freestyle is different than US folk style. The criteria for passivity is not the same we use for stalling in folk. If people understood this, they wouldn't have so many issues with it. I don't find it particularly hard to figure out who is going to get passivity called on them. And I'm quite sure that I'm in agreement with passivity calls at major international events more than I am with stalling calls at a HS level.

Hate to sound like Foley, but I even understand the rationale behind correct throw.

It's a different set of rules for a style that values certain techniques differently than folk. If you just want to change it to folk, there's not much point in the discussion. Just say you don't care for it and move on. Most of the world is not in that camp.

Again, IMO the current rule set is the best we've seen in a very long time. El jefe s point is on the mark, although it has a caveat. I could also see a tweak allowing slightly more time to work in par terre but not a minute as suggested above.

you're going to allow interlocking?

 

[Cowbell Man]

This is probably the only suggestion on this thread regarding rules and procedures I could really get behind (obviously no one could be against more weight classes and no cheating). This would fix the big complaint about repechage. Repechage is not the worst thing in the world if a bracket is set up properly. No requirement that one gets a mulligan because they had a bad match. Of course, getting this also might not be beneficial to the long term health of the sport internationally so there is another valid point of view on this.

Freestyle is different than US folk style. The criteria for passivity is not the same we use for stalling in folk. If people understood this, they wouldn't have so many issues with it. I don't find it particularly hard to figure out who is going to get passivity called on them. And I'm quite sure that I'm in agreement with passivity calls at major international events more than I am with stalling calls at a HS level.

Hate to sound like Foley, but I even understand the rationale behind correct throw.

It's a different set of rules for a style that values certain techniques differently than folk. If you just want to change it to folk, there's not much point in the discussion. Just say you don't care for it and move on. Most of the world is not in that camp.

Again, IMO the current rule set is the best we've seen in a very long time. El jefe s point is on the mark, although it has a caveat. I could also see a tweak allowing slightly more time to work in par terre but not a minute as suggested above.

Jefe, yes. Proper seeding is vital in every sport.

Dice, passivity just needs tweaking. I tend to agree with ability to understand and know when it will be called. I just think the call then encourages the guy who was aggressive to now be a blocker for 30 seconds.

As to US and stalling. If the refs would just follow the rules as written.... (dead horse)

And correct throw I will never understand. Nor do I want to.

 

[dicemen99]

Jefe, yes. Proper seeding is vital in every sport.

Dice, passivity just needs tweaking. I tend to agree with ability to understand and know when it will be called. I just think the call then encourages the guy who was aggressive to now be a blocker for 30 seconds.

As to US and stalling. If the refs would just follow the rules as written.... (dead horse)

And correct throw I will never understand. Nor do I want to.

Can't disagree with anything you wrote. If I could figure out what tweaking would stop the blocking encouragement without eliminating the passivity call, I'd guess I'd be on board. Maybe warning, then point like it is done with stalling, although then you are introducing more ref discretion into the process which I don't think anyone wants.

 

[nerfstate]

A 1 pt. correct throw might be ok, but the fact that an “almost td” is scored equally as an actual one is just bananas.

 

[El-Jefe]

A 1 pt. correct throw might be ok, but the fact that an “almost td” is scored equally as an actual one is just bananas.

Correct Throw in Greco does essentially what you say: it gives 2 pts for an almost 4-pt move. Makes some sense for a style that by its nature limits action and scoring opportunities. (Not necessarily agreeing, just acknowledging.)

The problem is bureaucratic: UWW made the rules uniform across styles and therefore imposed it on freestyle, where it absolutely does not belong.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Correct Throw in Greco does essentially what you say: it gives 2 pts for an almost 4-pt move. Makes some sense for a style that by its nature limits action and scoring opportunities. (Not necessarily agreeing, just acknowledging.)

The problem is bureaucratic: UWW made the rules uniform across styles and therefore imposed it on freestyle, where it absolutely does not belong.

Well...because....you know...the two sports are the same.

About the same as Men’s and Women’s lacrosse