Tough loss for the Eagles

[Aardvark86]

When they threw the flag, my initial reaction was that I didn't like the call. Honestly, I think I still don't really like the call. But...

1. Huge props to James Bradberry for his response. You don't see a lot of players man up on stuff like this these days, and particularly in a context like this that had to be terribly painful.
2. As to those that do want to whine about it, honestly, this is the NFL today. How many times (especially late in games) do you see teams (ahem, Tom Brady) throw jump balls and advance down the field via DPI? More that I care to count. This is just a second cousin to that.

 

[Aardvark86]

BS. I'm not even an eagles fan and can say there’s no way that was a completed catch before the hit. That is absurd.

That was my initial reaction, but the video suggested it was a lot closer than first appeared.

 

[Waltwam]

Philly fans suck . Turning cars over before the game . Happy they lost . The city is full of assholes .

Well, we know those things never happen in other cities.! 😉 You must feel the same way about Seattle, Detroit, Chicago, etc. There are idiots everywhere!

 

[Obliviax]

so here is the play. the announcer is wrong. he states the call was on the defender's left hand being around the WR's waist. That isn't the call. The call was when the WR "digged" in, then out (its called a Dig Route) the defender clearly tugs at the WR's shirt. You can see the shirt stretch. And that is why it was holding and not pass interference. It would have been a PI if the ball was in their air and the defender held him.

 

[bvillebaron]

Yeah, but if it wasn't called people would be saying it should have been (there was a clear hold when JuJu came out of his first break) as no matter what the refs do people will complain.

Eagles lost because Reid outcoached Sirianni, the poor punt coverage and the offense allowing a TD. It wasn't because of the refs.

BINGO

 

[bvillebaron]

Well, we know those things never happen in other cities.! 😉 You must feel the same way about Seattle, Detroit, Chicago, etc. There are idiots everywhere!

Have any of those other cities employed a judge to preside over criminal cases in the stadium? I'll wait.

 

[bvillebaron]

I thought the biggest play of the game was the drop by Hurts that gave KC a free td! Feel so bad for him.

That and the false start on the right guard on 4th and 1/2 yard on the immediately preceding play.

 

[bvillebaron]

Just bizarre to make that call when it was not anywhere close to egregious or kept the receiver from making the catch. Just unfortunate the refs play such a big role and essentially decide the game. Not a good look for the NFL. It could have been an epic finish and they just decide it themselves.

With all that said, the Philly defense looked atrocious in the 2nd half. I would have thought they could play better.

Some think it's not a good (but typical) look for Eagles' fans to be whining about the officials costing them the game. Eagles up by 10 at half and should have put the Chiefs away. Instead, Chiefs scored on every possession in the second half.

 

[AvgUser]

BS. I'm not even an eagles fan and can say there’s no way that was a completed catch before the hit. That is absurd.

I'll disagree. I thought Sanders very clearly caught the ball and firmly had it in his grasp. The hit on him was perfectly timed. According to the still-hard-to-interpret rules of the NFL, it is debatable whether a 'football' move was made. I don't think he made 'a football move' according to the rules, but I thought he clearly had full possession of the ball before being hit.

 

[Obliviax]

couple of other observations....

Really hard-hitting game. The hits on the first two plays against the Eagles were incredible. Sanders fumbled the ball out of bounds and he never fumbles.

Surprised Reid kicked to the Eagle to start the game.

The real MVP was the KC Chiefs RB who was an also-ran for Rutgers last year. Amazing. He was the second of three 7th round picks that the Chiefs had last year. He changed the momentum in Q3.

What was with the Eagles problems getting players on the field and getting the ball snapped with time on the clock? I thought that showed them to be in a bit of disarray at a critical time.

Don't forget the Chiefs missing an easy FG early in the game. Also, don't forget a very close defensive TD taken off the board (good call).

Cool that they use real grass. The video of them rolling the grass in and out is crazy. But they spend decades perfecting grass then paint it with slippery paint? Cool PSU is still the only grass field of all the major B1G teams.

I

 

[KCLion]

That and the false start on the right guard on 4th and 1/2 yard on the immediately preceding play.

Or the multiple times that the play clock went a couple of seconds past 0 when Hurts was making play calls and the right tackle regularly dropping his right foot back well before the snap because of his “centers mentality” (Olsen)

 

[PSUcup1]

That and the false start on the right guard on 4th and 1/2 yard on the immediately preceding play.

This was the play of the game. Fumbles happen, but an OG simply can’t jump before the snap in that situation (btw I believe it was only 3rd down).

Seomalu has no excuse for that. None.

Regarding the holding call. My issue is that was the 120th play from scrimmage (+/-1) and that was the first holding penalty called all game. If they had called it tight like that for the first 58 minutes then fine, make the call. But when you’ve let them play all game, for the refs to insert themselves at that juncture is ridiculous IMO

 

[Little J]

What bothers me most is they still can't figure out how to make calls. A number of times, receivers were grabbed or hit just before the ball arrived. That hold happens on every play and it's let go!!!

They let it go in the first half on a quick hitter to JuJu that would have kept a KC drive going instead of the 3 and out. That one was even more obvious than the 4th quarter hold. Win some - lose some.

 

[Still in State College]

I don't like people saying you can't make that call in that situation because it changes the game. If you don't call a penalty it directly changes the game as well. I have no issue with the hold. Sanders definitely did not make the catch. Control, two feet down and a football move. It met two of the three. Listen to guys like Mike Pereira. They know how games are officiated and the nuances of the rules which are far too complex in the NFL.

To win a Super Bowl you need to be lucky: Lucky with schedule; lucky with injuries and the timing of them. Philadelphia played the 32 ranked schedule. Hurts gets injured but at a time when it didn't matter. They played a limping Giants team in the playoffs and a San Fran team that didn't have a QB for a half of football.

Another interesting stat was that KC and Philly had the 31 and 32 ranked special teams this year and it impacted the game.

Only 17 runs by RB for Philly. I don't get that.

 

[LongJakk]

That penalty call was not necessary and didn’t impact the play.

The penalty was for holding NOT pass interference. The impact was that he was held. Whether he could've reached the pass was irrelevant.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

so here is the play. the announcer is wrong. he states the call was on the defender's left hand being around the WR's waist. That isn't the call. The call was when the WR "digged" in, then out (its called a Dig Route) the defender clearly tugs at the WR's shirt. You can see the shirt stretch. And that is why it was holding and not pass interference. It would have been a PI if the ball was in their air and the defender held him.

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Yup - it was that first tug with his right hand that’s hard to see. I’m as big an Eagle fan as you can be and it’s a hold to me. Eagles lost the game for other reasons. If they play a clean game with no turnovers and ST gaffes they win.

Andy Reid schooled the Eagles D coaches in the 2nd half. Several key plays were an absolute clinic on scheming a guy open

 

[Obliviax]

Yup - it was that first tug with his right hand that’s hard to see. I’m as big an Eagle fan as you can be and it’s a hold to me. Eagles lost the game for other reasons. If they play a clean game with no turnovers and ST gaffes they win.

Andy Reid schooled the Eagles D coaches in the 2nd half. Several key plays were an absolute clinic on scheming a guy open

I am reminded of "The Philly Special" in terms of play calling and scheming in the red zone. This is kind of that, in reverse. A couple of great plays that were schemed and called at the right time.

Kelce is a CLE guy so gets a lot of TV time. He has been effusive about Any Ried and the OC for the entire last two weeks. People keep asking him, and despite being double-teamed, he gets open. And he said that the coaching staff is unreal in coming up with plays that work against certain teams. Last night he said he would retire if Andy Reid was no longer the coach.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I am reminded of "The Philly Special" in terms of play calling and scheming in the red zone. This is kind of that, in reverse. A couple of great plays that were schemed and called at the right time.

Kelce is a CLE guy so gets a lot of TV time. He has been effusive about Any Ried and the OC for the entire last two weeks. People keep asking him, and despite being double-teamed, he gets open. And he said that the coaching staff is unreal in coming up with plays that work against certain teams. Last night he said he would retire if Andy Reid was no longer the coach.

Remember when we hired Bill O’Brien and his offensive schemes just ripped Iowa apart at Kinnick. That had been a House of Horrors for us and he gutted them. We had TEs open by 10 yards routinely.

 

[Obliviax]

Remember when we hired Bill O’Brien and his offensive schemes just ripped Iowa apart at Kinnick. That had been a House of Horrors for us and he gutted them. We had TEs open by 10 yards routinely.

I really liked how we used the TE's in the second half of last year. CJF has been outfront in how teams use TEs to their advantage. They are like the X factor. You can move them into the backfield, move them out wide, have them stay in and pass block, exploit seams if you over-cover WRs, get matchups on shorter and/or smaller LBers who primarily there to stop the run....and it looks like, to me, PSU is doubling down with stockpiling TEs. And if they get big you move them to the OL/DL. Too small and they stay out at WR.

 

[LandoComando]

What bothers me most is they still can't figure out how to make calls. A number of times, receivers were grabbed or hit just before the ball arrived. That hold happens on every play and it's let go!!!

I mean, that's fair. Consistency is lacking but people are trying to say there wasn't a hold. He actually held him twice.

 

[LandoComando]

I'll disagree. I thought Sanders very clearly caught the ball and firmly had it in his grasp. The hit on him was perfectly timed. According to the still-hard-to-interpret rules of the NFL, it is debatable whether a 'football' move was made. I don't think he made 'a football move' according to the rules, but I thought he clearly had full possession of the ball before being hit.

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This is part of the issue with football. To me, that's a catch and a fumble but this nonsense about a third step or football move after doesn't make any sense. Great defensive play. Happy for Sanders that he didn't have to live with that being a fumble/defensive score but that's a catch and a fumble in my opinion.

 

[Obliviax]

I mean, that's fair. Consistency is lacking but people are trying to say there wasn't a hold. He actually held him twice.

you make a good point...if the first hold was marginal, it may have been the arm around the waist that promoted to get the ref to think "ok, enough is enough" and throw the flag.

It is frustrating that holding, both on the OL and Defensive backfield, are so arbitrary. I honestly don't know what holding is anymore. When they show PI penalties in slow mo, I often don't say anything because I don't know what the standard is. Now some, of course, are pretty obvious. The only thing I can think of is if the DB turns around to look at the ball, he can kick the WR in the nuts and not get a penalty. There were several plays where DBs got their hands on the WR prematurely or or tugged on an arm as a WR was putting his hands up to make a reception. Its just too fast, to difficult. So, invariably, close games come down to these calls/non-calls in every game.

 

[LandoComando]

you make a good point...if the first hold was marginal, it may have been the arm around the waist that promoted to get the ref to think "ok, enough is enough" and throw the flag.

It is frustrating that holding, both on the OL and Defensive backfield, are so arbitrary. I honestly don't know what holding is anymore. When they show PI penalties in slow mo, I often don't say anything because I don't know what the standard is. Now some, of course, are pretty obvious. The only thing I can think of is if the DB turns around to look at the ball, he can kick the WR in the nuts and not get a penalty. There were several plays where DBs got their hands on the WR prematurely or or tugged on an arm as a WR was putting his hands up to make a reception. Its just too fast, to difficult. So, invariably, close games come down to these calls/non-calls in every game.

The bold is dead on--the game is too fast and too difficult for humans to call live. They have to make split second decisions that the public will get to see 800 slowed down replays of it. They don't have that luxury. They have to determine immediately and that's almost impossible now.

The NHL also gets a lot of complaints about their officiating and I think it's arguably the best of any sport in the world given the speed of the game.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I thought the biggest play of the game was the drop by Hurts that gave KC a free td! Feel so bad for him.

Yep, if Eagles kept that drive going and get a TD they are up 21-7 and on a roll. Ol MoMentum changed uniforms on that play.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

so here is the play. the announcer is wrong. he states the call was on the defender's left hand being around the WR's waist. That isn't the call. The call was when the WR "digged" in, then out (its called a Dig Route) the defender clearly tugs at the WR's shirt. You can see the shirt stretch. And that is why it was holding and not pass interference. It would have been a PI if the ball was in their air and the defender held him.

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The shirt does not stretch. His hand is on his back.

 

[NJPSU]

Eagles were a talented team but they benefited from one of the easiest paths to the Super Bowl in NFL history.

Who was their marquee win against this year? They beat San Fran with no QB, Dallas with their backup QB. Giants?

 

[LandoComando]

The shirt does not stretch. His hand is on his back.

He legit even said he grabbed his jersey and you still refuse to acknowledge it

 

[Obliviax]

The shirt does not stretch. His hand is on his back.

Are you talking about this play?

 

[NittanyChris]

1. By rule of law, I guess it was holding, but barely so. However, ANYONE who watches sports knows that it was so slight there is absolutely no way in Hell a seasoned official should make a call on such a minor infraction that essentially decides a Super Bowl.

2. Simultaneously, the Eagles defense was complete garbage the entire second half and are the real reason Philly lost.

Both of the above are accurate.

 

[tboyer]

The biggest factor I thought was Eagles pass rush (or lack of it). They were unable to get pressure on Mahomes the whole game. So the Eagles offense needed to be perfect, and they weren't (though they were very good).

Why did the Eagles have no pass rush when they led the league in sacks and had a dominant pass rush all season? Partly because KC's o-line is terrific, and I suspect the field conditions were also a factor. You can't pass rush when you're skating on ice.

Plus -- Andy Reid fooling the Eagles safeties twice at the goalline. If the Eagles D had been able to turn one of those situations into a field goal.... I loved that false shift thing though -- that was a great example of how playground football tricks can sometimes work at the highest level.

 

[Still in State College]

The biggest factor I thought was Eagles pass rush (or lack of it). They were unable to get pressure on Mahomes the whole game. So the Eagles offense needed to be perfect, and they weren't (though they were very good).

Why did the Eagles have no pass rush when they led the league in sacks and had a dominant pass rush all season? Partly because KC's o-line is terrific, and I suspect the field conditions were also a factor. You can't pass rush when you're skating on ice.

Plus -- Andy Reid fooling the Eagles safeties twice at the goalline. If the Eagles D had been able to turn one of those situations into a field goal.... I loved that false shift thing though -- that was a great example of how playground football tricks can sometimes work at the highest level.

That wasn't playground tricks that was bad D by Philly. They tried to hand off the WR both times and nobody was even there. That is a D bust more than great O scheme

 

[rll1957]

Complaining about field conditions is for whiners. Both teams play on the same field.

The problem is is why. They’re playing in the desert. They can literally control everything about that field. It was ridiculous. Should have consulted with psu turf management people I realize everyone had to play on the same field but those conditions really help the offensive players. Should not occur

 

[PSU20]

BS. I'm not even an eagles fan and can say there’s no way that was a completed catch before the hit. That is absurd.

Absurd as you may want it to be, the refs called it a "catch and fumble." initially. He clearly had complete possession, turned to go forward when he was hit.

The refs are the ones that were absurd; they made the call.

 

[bvillebaron]

you make a good point...if the first hold was marginal, it may have been the arm around the waist that promoted to get the ref to think "ok, enough is enough" and throw the flag.

It is frustrating that holding, both on the OL and Defensive backfield, are so arbitrary. I honestly don't know what holding is anymore. When they show PI penalties in slow mo, I often don't say anything because I don't know what the standard is. Now some, of course, are pretty obvious. The only thing I can think of is if the DB turns around to look at the ball, he can kick the WR in the nuts and not get a penalty. There were several plays where DBs got their hands on the WR prematurely or or tugged on an arm as a WR was putting his hands up to make a reception. Its just too fast, to difficult. So, invariably, close games come down to these calls/non-calls in every game.

Actually I think most of the holding calls on offensive linemen are legit. Eagles lost because they blew a 10 point lead at half, didn’t stop Chiefs from scoring on any possession in the second half and gave up 2 easy short TD passes on the same damn play, one to each side of the field where no DB was in the same zip code as the receiver. One was bad enough but no excuse for 2.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Actually I think most of the holding calls on offensive linemen are legit. Eagles lost because they blew a 10 point lead at half, didn’t stop Chiefs from scoring on any possession in the second half and gave up 2 easy short TD passes on the same damn play, one to each side of the field where no DB was in the same zip code as the receiver. One was bad enough but no excuse for 2.

True that most of those calls are legit. And true that they could call holding on the O line at least half the plays. As others pointed out, the Eagles had no pass rush and since Mahomes was gimpy a pass rush would have been very helpful.

 

[Little J]

Maybe next year for the Eagles, now let’s burry this thread and get back to Penn State Football! Punxy Phil what say you?

 

[Waltwam]

Absurd as you may want it to be, the refs called it a "catch and fumble." initially. He clearly had complete possession, turned to go forward when he was hit.

The refs are the ones that were absurd; they made the call.

The booth official called it before the refs on the field and replay officials made the same call.

 

[PSU20]

Fumble all the way. Quit whining like the Eagles......

 

[Online Persona]

I've seen it written pretty much everywhere now. The story lines of the Superbowl were:

1) Decided by officials when it was a great game otherwise
2) Terribly embarrassing field conditions
3) Hamlin wearing a jacket that many found to be offensive
4) Pregnant performer at halftime
5) Controversial playing of the black national anthem

 

[knickslions]

I've seen it written pretty much everywhere now. The story lines of the Superbowl were:

1) Decided by officials when it was a great game otherwise
2) Terribly embarrassing field conditions
3) Hamlin wearing a jacket that many found to be offensive
4) Pregnant performer at halftime
5) Controversial playing of the black national anthem

Game was not decided by the officials. It was a clear hold as the defender knew he was in trouble and even admitted the hold. If he does not grab him it may be a td. Overall it was actually one of the better officiated games of the playoffs.

The only negative of this game was the field conditions which were pathetic and killed both defenses.