Trace runs - questionable spots

[blion72]

watched replay and the spots re TM runs was really questionable. i know this was being discussed on the game thread last night, but I noticed some real inconsistent spots.

• on three occasions TM slide. Each time the spot was about 2 yards behind where the ball was when his knee touched. The ball was about a yard behind where his knee hit, but they put the ball almost 3 yds back from his knee and 2 yds back from the ball location.
• on two other occasions TM dived forward, and each time the spot was about 1 yd back from the ball.

these spots had no impact on the result, but in a close game this would have been a problem.

 

[klive]

They spot the ball where the qb starts to slide; not where the knee touches. That's the rule.

 

[adh110]

I get thee feeling there will be an open qb competition in the spring and Tommy Stevens will get an opportunity to win the job.

 

[Lion8286]

I get thee feeling there will be an open qb competition in the spring and Tommy Stevens will get an opportunity to win the job.

And this relates to questionable spots in what way??

 

[BBrown]

I get thee feeling there will be an open qb competition in the spring and Tommy Stevens will get an opportunity to win the job.

LOL, ok.
I like what I have seen from Stevens but Trace is the guy, he's only going to get better and its obvious the players love him.

 

[1PSUfootball1]

I get thee feeling there will be an open qb competition in the spring and Tommy Stevens will get an opportunity to win the job.

Good lord. I guess we should be happy to be back talking about football and not all the other nonsense, but really? TM has led this team to places none of us dreamed of this year. I love what I have seen from Tommy but if it ain't broke dont fix it.

 

[Eric_M]

watched replay and the spots re TM runs was really questionable. i know this was being discussed on the game thread last night, but I noticed some real inconsistent spots.

• on three occasions TM slide. Each time the spot was about 2 yards behind where the ball was when his knee touched. The ball was about a yard behind where his knee hit, but they put the ball almost 3 yds back from his knee and 2 yds back from the ball location.
• on two other occasions TM dived forward, and each time the spot was about 1 yd back from the ball.

these spots had no impact on the result, but in a close game this would have been a problem.

They are supposed to mark the ball where the QB starts the slide because he is essentially giving up. What is extremely questionable however is that when the QB slides and give up he is not fair game for shots. Qualified competent refs would have thrown at least two personal foul flags.

 

[Lions8286]

The questionable part to me is why flags were not thrown when he was hit while sliding.

 

[LukeIamYourFather]

They are supposed to mark the ball where the QB starts the slide because he is essentially giving up. What is extremely questionable however is that when the QB slides and give up he is not fair game for shots. Qualified competent refs would have thrown at least two personal foul flags.

Aside from the starting the slide spots, there were several questionable spots. This included a couple of Barkley's runs where it looked like he had a 1st down. No reviews. Hope they do better this week or at least permit a review when it is close to a 1st down.

 

[KnightSlayer]

They spot the ball where the qb starts to slide; not where the knee touches. That's the rule.

They need to clean this rule up. The reason they spot it where he starts the slide is because that is where the QB decided to give up the play to protect himself. It looked to me that the Rutger's defense was still taking shots a Trace as he's hitting the ground. If they are going to spot the ball where you begin your slide, then they need to blow the whistle as soon as you start the slide and penalize the defense if they hit you after the whistle.

 

[BBrown]

The questionable part to me is why flags were not thrown when he was hit while sliding.

I thought the same thing. There were more than a couple late hits on Trace that were not called.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The questionable part to me is why flags were not thrown when he was hit while sliding.

How about picking up two flags and waiving them off with absurd explanations? The defensive offsides flag where Buttgers DE clearly jumped into the neutral zone causing Chaz Wright OT across from him to move. And the gunner on the punt was not "blocked into" returner - complete nonsense as gunner was running parallel to PSU blocker and initiating contact into PSU player - the PSU player gave ground toward the inside of the field so he himself could avoid hitting returner. The Buttgers gunner never made any attempt to avoid hitting the returner and ran directly into him and was not "blocked into" the returner - Buttgers gunner was directing himself on that line and never attempted to veer from it. Both of these were ridiculous flag pick-ups.

How about the non-called late-hit where the referee announced a time-out for an injured player - no flag despite Buttgers defender taking at least two steps after pass released and then lowering his shoulder at impact rather than try to pull-up in any way? They didn't call a blatant targeting hit on Barkley where a 1st defender was holding Barkley in place and a second defender came in, dropped his head and intentionally hit Barkley in head with the crown of his helmet....

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I get thee feeling there will be an open qb competition in the spring and Tommy Stevens will get an opportunity to win the job.

I think TS is a prime candidate to transfer at the end of the season to be honest.

 

[BBrown]

How about picking up two flags and waiving them off with absurd explanations? The defensive offsides flag where Buttgers DE clearly jumped into the neutral zone causing Chaz Wright OT across from him to move. And the gunner on the punt was not "blocked into" returner - complete nonsense as gunner was running parallel to PSU blocker and initiating contact into PSU player - the PSU player gave ground toward the inside of the field so he himself could avoid hitting returner. The Buttgers gunner never made any attempt to avoid hitting the returner and ran directly into him and was not "blocked into" the returner - Buttgers gunner was directing himself on that line and never attempted to veer from it. Both of these were ridiculous flag pick-ups.

How about the non-called late-hit where the referee announced a time-out for an injured player - no flag despite Buttgers defender taking at least two steps after pass released and then lowering his shoulder at impact rather than try to pull-up in any way? They didn't call a blatant targeting hit on Barkley where a 1st defender was holding Barkley in place and a second defender came in, dropped his head and intentionally hit Barkley in head with the crown of his helmet....

yea wasn't that some weird explination about the guy jumping into the neutral zone causing the offensive player to move, wouldn't been the player impacted by the guy jumping int o the neutral zone? LOL. Maybe its true I don't know just never heard that explained like that before.

on the punt I thought it looked like Garrity's momentum (after catching the punt) moved him into the gunner.
On that I thought it was a good call.

Agree on the Barkley hit and I thought there were at least 2 to 3 late hits on Trace.

 

[lionlurker]

By all accounts, TS loves being at Penn State. That doesn't mean anything, but I think they'll play him more and more next year as they continue to build on this offense. With his skillset, there's a lot of ways for Joe M. to use him. If anybody were to transfer, I think it would be Zembiec, depending on what happens in the spring.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

By all accounts, TS loves being at Penn State. That doesn't mean anything, but I think they'll play him more and more next year as they continue to build on this offense. With his skillset, there's a lot of ways for Joe M. to use him. If anybody were to transfer, I think it would be Zembiec, depending on what happens in the spring.

Stevens is more ready to go somewhere and play right away. And he's from Indiana. Zembiec is younger, not as ready, and from New York. Nice having this problem, but QB's are fickle creatures.

 

[LionDeNittany]

How about picking up two flags and waiving them off with absurd explanations? The defensive offsides flag where Buttgers DE clearly jumped into the neutral zone causing Chaz Wright OT across from him to move. And the gunner on the punt was not "blocked into" returner - complete nonsense as gunner was running parallel to PSU blocker and initiating contact into PSU player - the PSU player gave ground toward the inside of the field so he himself could avoid hitting returner. The Buttgers gunner never made any attempt to avoid hitting the returner and ran directly into him and was not "blocked into" the returner - Buttgers gunner was directing himself on that line and never attempted to veer from it. Both of these were ridiculous flag pick-ups.

How about the non-called late-hit where the referee announced a time-out for an injured player - no flag despite Buttgers defender taking at least two steps after pass released and then lowering his shoulder at impact rather than try to pull-up in any way? They didn't call a blatant targeting hit on Barkley where a 1st defender was holding Barkley in place and a second defender came in, dropped his head and intentionally hit Barkley in head with the crown of his helmet....

I agree on the offsides but not the gunner.

I thought the gunner was clearly trying to avoid contact and his momentum plus the fact that he was being blocked led to the contact.

It's how I would always like it called. Except we know vs. Michigan that would be a PF.

LdN

 

[BBrown]

I think TS is a prime candidate to transfer at the end of the season to be honest.

Wow I hope not but yea the QB position is going to get kind of crowded.
But with this offense (well I guess any offense but this one in particular) the backup QB is 1 play away from getting
meaningful game time.

 

[LMTLION]

In our offense the qb is more at risk for injury, so it is vital to have a qb like ts ready to go if needed. It is TM's team, though. No question about it.

 

[rohrmd9]

I think TS is a prime candidate to transfer at the end of the season to be honest.

I agree with this. This was the case for whomever didn't get the starting job. I think TM and TS have the same eligibility and I don't see TS staying here for his entire college career as a back-up.

 

[tboyer]

Given the offense PSU runs, chances are very good that McSorley will get banged up at some point and Stevens will lead the team. Just one concussion protocol situation. So Stevens isn't just important, he's essential. And whenever he plays I'm excited to see him in there because he brings his own special athletic ability to the position; i.e. he can definitely do some things that Trace can't do (and vice versa). Just couldn't be happier with the QB situation. Both those guys really look prepared and confident when they're in there. It's hard to judge because Stevens hasn't had to play much crunch time football but I suspect there is very little dropoff from McSorley to Stevens in what the team can do.

 

[Erial_Lion]

I agree with this. This was the case for whomever didn't get the starting job. I think TM and TS have the same eligibility and I don't see TS staying here for his entire college career as a back-up.

Tommy has one more year than Trace (Trace played last year, TS redshirted).

 

[sluggo72]

I think TS is a prime candidate to transfer at the end of the season to be honest.

this seems to be the modern way, not that I like or agree with it.

 

[bjf1991]

watched replay and the spots re TM runs was really questionable. i know this was being discussed on the game thread last night, but I noticed some real inconsistent spots.

• on three occasions TM slide. Each time the spot was about 2 yards behind where the ball was when his knee touched. The ball was about a yard behind where his knee hit, but they put the ball almost 3 yds back from his knee and 2 yds back from the ball location.
• on two other occasions TM dived forward, and each time the spot was about 1 yd back from the ball.

these spots had no impact on the result, but in a close game this would have been a problem.

In a 39-0 game....a lot of stuff gets "white-washed"

That doesn't mean the officiating was wonderful

FWIW......I didn't feel there were a lot of "WTF" moments by the officiating crew (not like a John ONeill, or vintage Bill Lemonnier game)....and it was certainly a better than average game for a B1G officiating crew


The one thing that did stand out - - - - as you allude to - - - - was the incongruence in the "spot the ball where the QB begins his slide"/"late hit on QB interpretation".
If you are going to have one - - - - you damn well better have the other.
The officials seemed totally "on" with respect to spotting the ball back at the initiation of the slide......but completely ignored the other half of the rule - that the D has to "pull up" against a sliding ball carrier.
That was bullshit a couple of times on Saturday
Call it both ways - or not at all

And the late hit on McSorley - on the roll out pass to the right - where it was the Referee, McS, and the defender who drilled McS in the chest - all out in the open field where no way the Ref can "not see " that play - and he takes the time after the hit to check to see if McS is "OK", but doesn't flag the late hit - was bewildering.



The other situation that stood out to me - not some much for the egregiousness of the "miss", but for how incredibly out of position the ref was, was the Barkley run early in the game (I think PSU's first possession) when they missed the spot of the ball along the sidelines by a full yard.
If the spot would have been correct, I am not sure if it would have been a first down or not - - - - so it certainly wasn't a "WTF" type situation that impacts the game........but the Ref - and there should be a "ref placement" basically along the LOS at the sideline prior to the snap, and the play itself ended up just a couple yards from the LOS at the sideline........and the ref was nowhere to be found.
The guy who spotted the ball must have been trailing from at least 5 yards behind the play (along the sidelines) and had no better idea where the spot should have been than the guy working the concession stands in the upper deck.....he was that far out of position.


I'm sure there may have been a few "head-scratchers" against RU as well.

But, overall, certainly a better job than the "legislating from the bench" that occurs when ONeill does an important game.



l

 

[BBrown]

In a 39-0 game....a lot of stuff gets "white-washed"

That doesn't mean the officiating was wonderful

FWIW......I didn't feel there were a lot of "WTF" moments by the officiating crew (not like a John ONeill, or vintage Bill Lemonnier game)....and it was certainly a better than average game for a B1G officiating crew


The one thing that did stand out - - - - as you allude to - - - - was the incongruence in the "spot the ball where the QB begins his slide"/"late hit on QB interpretation".
If you are going to have one - - - - you damn well better have the other.
The officials seemed totally "on" with respect to spotting the ball back at the initiation of the slide......but completely ignored the other half of the rule - that the D has to "pull up" against a sliding ball carrier.
That was bullshit a couple of times on Saturday
Call it both ways - or not at all

And the late hit on McSorley - on the roll out pass to the right - where it was the Referee, McS, and the defender who drilled McS in the chest - all out in the open field where no way the Ref can "not see " that play - and he takes the time after the hit to check to see if McS is "OK", but doesn't flag the late hit - was bewildering.



The other situation that stood out to me - not some much for the egregiousness of the "miss", but for how incredibly out of position the ref was, was the Barkley run early in the game (I think PSU's first possession) when they missed the spot of the ball along the sidelines by a full yard.
If the spot would have been correct, I am not sure if it would have been a first down or not - - - - so it certainly wasn't a "WTF" type situation that impacts the game........but the Ref - and there should be a "ref placement" basically along the LOS at the sideline prior to the snap, and the play itself ended up just a couple yards from the LOS at the sideline........and the ref was nowhere to be found.
The guy who spotted the ball must have been trailing from at least 5 yards behind the play (along the sidelines) and had no better idea where the spot should have been than the guy working the concession stands in the upper deck.....he was that far out of position.


I'm sure there may have been a few "head-scratchers" against RU as well.

But, overall, certainly a better job than the "legislating from the bench" that occurs when ONeill does an important game.



l

That was the one that really stood out to me as well. Def. should have been a flag.

On the play with Barkley that you were talking about Millen specifically said not once but twice its where the ball is not the foot and the official spotted it exactly where the foot was. Nothing was ever said.
I'm not sure it would have been a first down either but it would have been much, much closer.