That certainly would make a lot of sense.
Also, Elisa the interviewer has to be a significant character. Could Julie have had a child in the late 80's-early 90s?
True Detective
- Thread starter bkmtnittany1
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Also, Elisa the interviewer has to be a significant character. Could Julie have had a child in the late 80's-early 90s?
This is an interesting thought.
So Julie was how old in 1980? 8? 10? Let's say 10. So she would have been 20 in 1990. We don't have any indications (yet) that she was pregnant in the 1990 timeline, so let's say the earliest she could have given birth was 1991. This would make her daughter 24 in the 2015 timeline. I guess it is possible that the interviewer (blond woman) is only 24 years old, although that seems young to be in the professional role she is in (investigative reporter/producer/"on air" talent). But I guess it is possible.
Would it also be possible that she is a little bit older (i.e late 30s? Is my math right, there?) and is somehow the Hoyt granddaughter? Do we know what happened to the Hoyt granddaughter? I think the language used was that she was "lost" which doesn't necessarily mean dead.
Julie was 10 in 1980. It is possible that she was a few months pregnant in the 1990 security footage, or that she had a kid a year or so earlier. Fwiw, the actress the plays Elisa was born in 1987 (making her 31ish at the time of filming).
Interesting note on the Hoyt granddaughter. Pretty sure they do say "lost", leaving her fate open ended. She would presumably be around the same age as Julie though, making it tough for her to be Elisa, but you never know.
Another piece of info re: West being in on it. He gets pissed at Hays when Hays mentions searching gay bars to find more about Tom. West gets pissed and leaves Hays off on the side of the road. Is West a closeted gay person and could higher ups have found out about it and coerced him into a coverup and paid him off with promotions?
I think West knows Tom didn't do it (because he helped Tom out significantly between 1980 and 1990) and doesn't see any need to waste more time talking to him, nor put him through any additional pain. I guess it is possible that West is also gay, but that would be coming out of left field, I think.
I don't think we know when Hoyt lost the granddaughter. It could have been several years before 1980, meaning she would be older than Julie, meaning maybe the right age to be the interviewer? I have no idea.
I wonder if we learn of a romantic connection between Tom and someone else (West? Harris?)
Rewatched the episode and I am now
convinced Tom and West are connected and maybe even partners. When West finds the religious pamphlet on altering being gay he has a huge scowl on his face, like he is pissed by this idea.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Finally watched the episode and read up on the discussion here - lots of good stuff and sadly a lot of what was predicted previously has happened (I think some here are big Reddit fans and went down the spoiler rabbit hole some time ago). That said, there are still a few unanswered questions, notably:
1. What happened to Amelia?
2. What happened to Tom?
3. Is this bigger than replacing a 'lost' granddaughter?
4. Significance of the dolls?
5. There is something to Hays' memory - it's more than he's just forgetful now and then....
6. Any chance Tom and Roland became lovers? Roland never marries, lives alone, is protective of Tom, etc. (I see this was mentioned earlier in this thread as well).
Anyway, though this turkey is almost cooked it's been a good season IMO. The cast, acting, and writing have been great ('I always thought God should have worked on that last day instead of half-assing it...' - LOL). The mystery has been fun until IMBD and Reddit ruined everything. Good news is I think Amelia is in the clear. Lucky bastard Hays....
1. What happened to Amelia?
2. What happened to Tom?
3. Is this bigger than replacing a 'lost' granddaughter?
4. Significance of the dolls?
5. There is something to Hays' memory - it's more than he's just forgetful now and then....
6. Any chance Tom and Roland became lovers? Roland never marries, lives alone, is protective of Tom, etc. (I see this was mentioned earlier in this thread as well).
Anyway, though this turkey is almost cooked it's been a good season IMO. The cast, acting, and writing have been great ('I always thought God should have worked on that last day instead of half-assing it...' - LOL). The mystery has been fun until IMBD and Reddit ruined everything. Good news is I think Amelia is in the clear. Lucky bastard Hays....
1. Has to be tied to the case right?
2. I think Harris is going to force him to reveal how he figured it out, but not sure after that.
3. I think definitely.
4. I think there is a benevolent person involved that used them to lead the police to will. Dead eye guy?
5. I think he now uses the memory loss to his advantage when needed
6. Very possible
I actually just went to reddit for the first time ever today. what I found was just a thread of user comments. Is there something on reddit that gives away the conclusion, or is it just very effective group think?
I didn't see anyone that seemed to have insider info. Wondering if I should stop reading those comments.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Someone there posted the IMDB casting for a person not introduced until this episode. From there it was pretty easy to work backwards. I accidentally stumbled upon it a couple of episodes ago and wish I didn’t. I believe @PSU2UNC was aware as well.
You have to be careful when looking at IMBD. You can go to look to see what else Dorff has been in, and then notice, "Hey, we haven't seen that actor yet....oooooh." To be fair, I had assumed that there had to be two "dead eye guys" because the guy Hays/West interviewed seemed like a true dead end.
I usually stay away from Reddit, but it is more group think than anyone with insider knowledge. There are also some crazy theories on Reddit that don't pan out (e.g. you can go back and read old Reddit threads from Season 1 and see how far off people were).
Certainly possible.
It's also possible that he has similar southern small town homophobia to Hays and is disappointed that this guy that he had been helping is gay.
Another tidbit from E6. You can pause when Roland opens up Amelia's book and read some of it. Most was too blurry for me to read - maybe someone with a top notch tv can see more.
The part that is legible talks about a car crash involving Amelia, Wayne, and Becca. The car lands upside down on a ledge and Becca is hurt, Wayne is bleeding. Amelia manages to find her phone in the car (after a half hour) and is surprised it is in pristine condition. It appears that someone may have been calling the phone at time of accident. I see someone named Ed mentioned, but not clear who that is.
The other page of the book that is legible talks about Lucy, but doesn't say much. However, "Lucy" is emphatically circled and (IIRC) with a handwritten "2 *" next to it. The latter reminded me of the star theme in S1.
Not sure if any of this is relevant, but was a little interesting.
The part that is legible talks about a car crash involving Amelia, Wayne, and Becca. The car lands upside down on a ledge and Becca is hurt, Wayne is bleeding. Amelia manages to find her phone in the car (after a half hour) and is surprised it is in pristine condition. It appears that someone may have been calling the phone at time of accident. I see someone named Ed mentioned, but not clear who that is.
The other page of the book that is legible talks about Lucy, but doesn't say much. However, "Lucy" is emphatically circled and (IIRC) with a handwritten "2 *" next to it. The latter reminded me of the star theme in S1.
Not sure if any of this is relevant, but was a little interesting.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Agree, but the IMDB stuff was first posted there and once that got picked up it got pretty easy to predict how things were going to go. There are still some unanswered questions, but the mystery of 'whodunit' is sort of solved, as is part of the 'why' - still some unanswered questions that I hope are worth the wait.
Good call with looking at the book. Someone far more astute than me (see ringer podcast link below, if you want), figured out that the book used to stand in for Amelia's book is actually this:
Amazon product ASIN 0062791451
In other words, they didn't mock up/typeset Amelia's book, they just used an existing book and wrote stuff related to True Detective in it (the notes).
(they way the knew to look for this was that the text mentions cell phones which were not at all common in 1990)
Anyway, this probably doesn't mean anything directly to the story (i.e. this IS supposed to be Amelia's book in the show), but choosing that particular book as a stand in MIGHT be a subtle message from the writers of the show (especially since we know they create a fake book (the D&D book in Will's room) just for the show). I won't spoil anything, but you can listen to the podcast below (it's at the 24 minute mark or so if you don't want to listen to the whole thing)
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2019/2/10/18217465/true-detective-season-3-episode-6-recap
Maybe...good observation.Got one more for the day. I've been watching every episode twice, and the second time looking at side characters for relevance. This one stuck out upon second viewing. Could it be?
I also want to know more about the other side character (the fat neighbor) who always seems to be around Lucy (including in the town meeting scene above).
Is she maybe part of the Hoyt "team"?
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Question - In the most recent episode, Amelia is talking about writing another book - a sequel, right? Or did I imagine that? She wrote the first book after the initial case was settled in 1980. Her publisher wants a sequel now that the case is open again - if that's correct, and I'm not sure because I'd have to re-watch to confirm, which book was she signing when approached by the one-eyed man? That was in '90, right?
D'oh! I didn't even think about the cell phone angle. They wouldn't have been prevalent when the book was written. I wonder why they didn't blur out that part, which is clearly a different story.
Could she be the "aunt"?
She did mention that in the 1990 time line, although I thought in previous episodes she has also talked about writing novels after she got her start. I think she has written multiple books, but I'm not sure if there is more than one related to the Purcell case.
I'm guessing they didn't blur it out because it is a purposeful, but very, very subtle clue from the writers about Amelia. I won't spoil that for you, but don't to the podcast I reference if you don't want extraneous info.
She could be the "aunt" although my thought is that the kids are hanging out in the woods with the Hoyt daughter (i.e. the mom who lost her daughter, the Hoyt grand daughter), prior to the abduction/sale so that when she is taken/sold, she doesn't fight it. So I think the "aunt" is the Hoyt daughter. But I could be wrong.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
It's weird because if she never wrote a sequel - and she did say that is what she was working on in '90 (to which Hays said, 'Thought you were going to write your novel?'), she's signing a book about the 1980 case. Seems weird, unless it took her 10 years to write the book. The case was solved after the Woodward incident shortly after the investigation started in '80 - wouldn't have been much for her to dig up.
She does mention a possible sequel, but the book signing is for the original. I think they say that there is renewed interest in the case after they discover Julie is alive. Hence the book reading/signing.
The runaway girl says to Amelia "you should write a book about what happens to girls around here". Could be the bigger picture ending.
Just to clarify, I don't think the book signing is due to renewed interest. I believe the book was originally published in 1990 (in an earlier episode we see Wayne and Amelia discussing her galleys in the 1990 time line), so the book signing is for when the book originally came out (although I'm sure the news that Julie was alive didn't hurt book sales...)
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Right - I listened to that podcast and they mention her first book is released around 1990-91. Additionally, this puts Amelia squarely in the cross-hair of some bad folks...
One episode to go. So who gave Hoyt the tip about the Harris James shakedown? Roland?
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Harris’ car is a Cadillac. In 1990, I believe they were equip with OnStar service. His car could have been tracked.
Some of my questions that should be answered in the hour and 15 minute final are:
What is the status of the Hays’ daughter?
What is the status of Hays’ wife?
What is the status of the Purcell daughter?
What is the importance of the photo of the trick or treaters?
What is the status of West’s poultry science girlfriend?
Who is in the brown car in 1980?
Who is on the dark car in 2015?
Who is Watts and is he the one- eyed guy?
Some of my questions that should be answered in the hour and 15 minute final are:
What is the status of the Hays’ daughter?
What is the status of Hays’ wife?
What is the status of the Purcell daughter?
What is the importance of the photo of the trick or treaters?
What is the status of West’s poultry science girlfriend?
Who is in the brown car in 1980?
Who is on the dark car in 2015?
Who is Watts and is he the one- eyed guy?
Julie knew about the pink room before she went missing. Remember the drawings they found in her room with the notes? Drawings of the pink room.
My guesses.
We don't find anything out about Hays daughter or his wife. I
We have some sort of Julie sighting in 2015, but it is passing and nothing is resolved with her future.
Hays circled the hands of the ghosts showing that one was black and one white.
West GF = red herring
Brown car is Watts driving Isabel.
Dark car in 2015 is someone in the Hoyt camp checking up on Hays because he made an agreement with Hoyt to drop the case.
Watts is the one eyed man and I think it's pretty straight forward. He helped Isabel get Julie. Is he more than that as Elisa suggests though (procurer)?
I'll get the negative out of the way first. I'm a little disappointed that the season has been more predictable that expected. We all guessed that Hays/West killed Harris. Harris did kill Lucy (although didn't know he killed tom). It looks like Hoyt/Isabel/Watt did kidnap Julie. Lucy was involved and likely sold her daughter.
The reddit world was obsessed with West having a fling with Tom. It looked like that could be possible in the scene where Tom is leaving home in his car, but I think we can put that idea to bed now.
The most exciting part to me was Elisa finally bringing up Season 1 and introducing the idea of a larger pedophile/human traffic ring. I would love nothing more than a further tie to Season 1 and the discovery of such a ring. However, with only 1 episode left, my fear is that this is either a dead end, or we are left with a pseudo-cliff hanger that is designed to be resolved in a future season.
Now that Tom is killed and framed, we are pretty sure that Harris James and the Hoyt family is indeed at the center of the entire crime. My guess is that we find out how it all went down in the final episode. I also think we get to see Isabel, who I really want to be the reporter that chases after Lucy.
The reddit world was obsessed with West having a fling with Tom. It looked like that could be possible in the scene where Tom is leaving home in his car, but I think we can put that idea to bed now.
The most exciting part to me was Elisa finally bringing up Season 1 and introducing the idea of a larger pedophile/human traffic ring. I would love nothing more than a further tie to Season 1 and the discovery of such a ring. However, with only 1 episode left, my fear is that this is either a dead end, or we are left with a pseudo-cliff hanger that is designed to be resolved in a future season.
Now that Tom is killed and framed, we are pretty sure that Harris James and the Hoyt family is indeed at the center of the entire crime. My guess is that we find out how it all went down in the final episode. I also think we get to see Isabel, who I really want to be the reporter that chases after Lucy.
I think the ending is going to be unpredictable and I think West was the traitor and was in on the coverup the entire time and that Hays knew about it. How did Hoyt find out about them killing James? Think about that. I think in the end Hays is going to take West out.
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Interesting possibility. It did seem like West unnecessarily fired kill shots at Harris during Harris' scuffle with Hayes just before Harris was going to spill the beans on everything.
It’s becoming obvious to me that West is in on it, likely after the fact in the form of a direct or indirect cover up. I suspect he’s trolling around the 2015 timeline to see how much of things Hays remembers. There seems to have been some sort of deal made to drop the investigation. Hoyt May have blackmailed the detectives with the Harris killing. If Hays’ memory is on the fritz and he’s back to trying to solve the case and talking to reporters, then West May be asked to “deal with it” to keep things quiet.
Seems like this is now the most debated subject of the reddit world (replacing the West is gay topic). It is definitely possible.
However, why would he 1) bring Hays back in 1990? He is the one guy that could ruin the conspiracy 2) not call Hoyt to tell him that Hays was planning to interrogate Harris James?
#2 may very likely have happened. Hoyt knew about Harris the morning after. That implies a deeper line of info than an early Cadillac OnStar tracking of Harris’ car with an inevitable hunt for more evidence over a period of days/weeks. I suspect that if West was in on a cover-up, that he’d have surfaced all the Harris evidence to Hoyt as soon as Hays surfaced it.
There are many possibilities re #1. In an indirect cover-up, West might be unable to go at this himself, but hope that Hays “I don’t give a shit” attitude forces things to light. That could also be true even with West keeping Hoyt apprised (think acting as a double agent). West could also have needed to appear like he was giving this a real “go” to the public. Bringing back Hays certainly would do the trick. The simplest explanation is that West thought it was truly “cold” and just wanted to give an old friend a second chance. Maybe West became aware/involved after bringing Hays into the 1990 timeline. Maybe he knew before and just thought what happened was so cold it wouldn’t see the light of day.
1) Perhaps West became compromised during the 1990 investigation.
2) Perhaps West called Hays to interrogate Harris to control the situation. West may have feared that Hays was going to interrogate Harris on his own if West refused to participate. Perhaps West was prepared to kill both Harris and Hays if Harris spilled the beans to Hays.
Total guesses.
When is Amelia’s book published? 1990? Could this be a reason for West to bring Hays back, to keep him close to the vest so he does not divulge too much info.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Ignored this thread until I could get around to watching the episode. Lots of what happened has been talked about already, and I think some of the speculation might be right, but here are my two cents...
- I do think West and Purcell may have been closer than advertised. As suggested by GG, the way in which West handed the phone number to Purcell in '80 suggests there is more to the story - very heavy handed.
- Love the tie in to S1. I am holding out hope for some guest appearances in the finale!
- I do not think West was in on anything. I find it very, very odd that Hoyt (F'N MICHAEL ROOKER!) was able to get to Hays the day after Harris is killed, but I can't believe West was the reason. He's way, way, way too independent and I think he really likes(d) Hays and was hoping to solve the thing. Also, he was close with Purcell and I think he's the type to put revenge for a friend above some kind of BS arrangement with a wealthy pedophile. In 2015, he seems pretty eager to help Hays out despite not knowing the full extent of Hays' memory issues (which become more apparent this episode). If he were in on anything, likely the folks interviewing Hays would suspect, and no way he put himself out there to interview people in present day. His ass beating of Harris was way, way, way too brutal for him to be close to anyone at Hoyt.
- Here's my way the f*** out there theory - Hays didn't just make an arrangement with the Hoyt family to drop the case - he ends up WORKING FOR THEM. Maybe in the same capacity as Harris. Maybe to protect his family - Hoyt's not so subtle threat about Hays' wife and kids might be the thing that put him over the top. He starts a new job, can't talk about it, and Amelia leaves, etc. I think there is something very powerful behind Hays' memory loss and something like this might be the reason. Of course, no way he could hide working for the Hoyt family from his family let alone the folks interviewing him in 2015, so like previously stated, some arrangement is worked out and that is who is keeping tabs on him in 2015.
- Truely Old Detectives is pretty funny - seeing Hays set up the car in 2015 with West taking a photo of the license plate was good stuff. Very anxious to see how things end. Admittedly, I have no idea and am looking forward to it.
- Whatever 'big reveals' happen, I think they happen in 1990, and they are things Hays has 'misremembered' on purpose. Nearly all of the major players are dead by the time 2015 rolls around (just guessing Watts, Hoyt), noting Elisa might be alive still (though I do not believe she is the journalist given how f'd up she's portrayed by the former Hoyt employee). Whatever it is, Hays isn't remembering it on purpose - and he's the only one that knows (IMO).
However this shakes out, I think this was a triumphant return for True Detective, and I'd like to see a few more seasons. I do think too much meddling on Reddit and IMDB take the fun out of fan speculation, but I'm holding out hope the show is able to surprise everyone in the finale.
- I do think West and Purcell may have been closer than advertised. As suggested by GG, the way in which West handed the phone number to Purcell in '80 suggests there is more to the story - very heavy handed.
- Love the tie in to S1. I am holding out hope for some guest appearances in the finale!
- I do not think West was in on anything. I find it very, very odd that Hoyt (F'N MICHAEL ROOKER!) was able to get to Hays the day after Harris is killed, but I can't believe West was the reason. He's way, way, way too independent and I think he really likes(d) Hays and was hoping to solve the thing. Also, he was close with Purcell and I think he's the type to put revenge for a friend above some kind of BS arrangement with a wealthy pedophile. In 2015, he seems pretty eager to help Hays out despite not knowing the full extent of Hays' memory issues (which become more apparent this episode). If he were in on anything, likely the folks interviewing Hays would suspect, and no way he put himself out there to interview people in present day. His ass beating of Harris was way, way, way too brutal for him to be close to anyone at Hoyt.
- Here's my way the f*** out there theory - Hays didn't just make an arrangement with the Hoyt family to drop the case - he ends up WORKING FOR THEM. Maybe in the same capacity as Harris. Maybe to protect his family - Hoyt's not so subtle threat about Hays' wife and kids might be the thing that put him over the top. He starts a new job, can't talk about it, and Amelia leaves, etc. I think there is something very powerful behind Hays' memory loss and something like this might be the reason. Of course, no way he could hide working for the Hoyt family from his family let alone the folks interviewing him in 2015, so like previously stated, some arrangement is worked out and that is who is keeping tabs on him in 2015.
- Truely Old Detectives is pretty funny - seeing Hays set up the car in 2015 with West taking a photo of the license plate was good stuff. Very anxious to see how things end. Admittedly, I have no idea and am looking forward to it.
- Whatever 'big reveals' happen, I think they happen in 1990, and they are things Hays has 'misremembered' on purpose. Nearly all of the major players are dead by the time 2015 rolls around (just guessing Watts, Hoyt), noting Elisa might be alive still (though I do not believe she is the journalist given how f'd up she's portrayed by the former Hoyt employee). Whatever it is, Hays isn't remembering it on purpose - and he's the only one that knows (IMO).
However this shakes out, I think this was a triumphant return for True Detective, and I'd like to see a few more seasons. I do think too much meddling on Reddit and IMDB take the fun out of fan speculation, but I'm holding out hope the show is able to surprise everyone in the finale.
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The journalist is too young to be Elisa considering Elisa crashed a car about the time the kids disappeared. Or am I getting all the time lines confused? (Well, I am a retired investigator.)
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