i picked up my one and a half year old 75 pound female boxer from her doggy daycare today (she goes once a week to burn off some energy). She had a bad limp and wouldn't put any weight on one of her hind legs. It doesn't look like she has any scratches or anything. I scheduled a vet appt for tomorrow morning, hoping that her limp goes away with some sleep.. my question is, has anyone's dog had knee surgery and have any thoughts/suggestions? If it's an ACL tear, It's looking like a long road to recovery from what I read online.
Way OT.. dog torn ACL
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My black lab tore his ACL. Opted not to have surgery. Over the years he would re-injure it a few times and limp just as you put it for a day or 2. He was 4 or 5 I believe, at that age I probably would have thought about surgery for him, but not positive.
Had 2 dogs with ACL surgery. One had the more involved and more complex surgery and the other had less complex surgery. Both dogs did well post-op but the recovery time for the one with the more complex surgery was longer, but I don't know if it was because of the type of surgery or that they were 2 different breeds (Cavalier King Charles spaniel and a Shar Pei).
In Hindsight (I know).. I am glad we didn't have the surgery. He still was active and crazy as ever. I have had 3 ACL reconstructions and know what a pain in the ass it was, figured why put him thru it..
I think this is why I'm so nervous. I've had ACL reconstruction 10 years ago and it was terrible
Considerable experience with this issue. My dogs and dogs belonging to others. If the dog is not a performance athlete, a young dog with a torn ACL may gradually learn to favor it and have a fine life with a slight limp and minimal pain. A full tear will not repair itself. I have field trial English Setters and have had two torn ACL's repaired with TPLO surgery. Need an experienced surgeon. Long (six month) recovery with care not to allow the dog to run. Tough to stick with the regimen, believe me. Both knees recovered to near 100%, but I hated the recovery process. With a boxer, I would try the natural partial recovery with AI drugs and restricted activity initially. Still, considerable time and attention is involved. Good luck.
There is no need to get the surgery immediately.. See how he is for a year. If he keeps injuring it, then opt for the surgery.
Whenever you guys talk about good looking gals you usually post accompanying pics. You should do the same when talking about doggys. To the op, I hope she's ok she sounds like a good pup.
Good luck keeping her calm if she's anything like mine. I can't imagine going through this. Hope you get good news. Had a friend that had a lab that tore her ACL and it was just bed rest for the rest of its life (pretty much) because the surgery was too expensive.
Not sure who else has responded (profession). As a DVM, most responses are correct in many ways. Limited activity post surgery, pain meds, carefully watch the dog's weight (make sure they are NOT overweight). In larger dogs, as stated the recovery (if left uncorrected surgically) will be more difficult. Smaller dogs tend to do better if left uncorrected. Most important: Go to a DVM who has done many of these surgeries (is experienced), possibly a university. I've seen most people satisfied with the final outcome.
Our 6 year old beagle tore hers and we decided to not do the surgery. She did well until she was 17. She did tear the other side one year later. Our vet told us before we decided that with or without the surgery
She would tear the other one because she was so active. Also said she would get arthritis
Either way. Being a small dog, he said she had a 50/50 chance of being the same either way.
She would tear the other one because she was so active. Also said she would get arthritis
Either way. Being a small dog, he said she had a 50/50 chance of being the same either way.
Bob Rider at Metzger's is an excellent orthopedic surgeon and has repaired many ACLs. You may want to see him.
My wife is a dog expert of sorts, and she said to expect a bill of a few thousand dollars. I have my own thoughts on pet ownership, but this is not the appropriate time. Good luck. I respect that many love their pets as children, so quality of life trumps cost.
What makes you think that it's an ACL tear?
I have two 75 lb hunting dogs that are balls of energy and bull through brush and bramble like mike singletary filling the hole. My older dog, during the middle of hunting season, jumped down from the couch and landed wrong. He immediately started limping, wouldn't put much weight on it, and was licking it. My wife and I were both concerned, but it was Saturday afternoon and out Vet was closed. We decided to take our dog to the emergency vet to get checked out. They took x-rays, but they proved to be inconclusive relative to soft tissue injury, but appeared to rule out a break. They said that they could do an MRI, but wouldn't really recommend either way. We ended up deciding to keep our dog inside most of the time and guard against aggravating it, and schedule an appointment with our normal vet first thing in the AM. By the time we got to the vet for our appointment on Monday afternoon, the dog was walking around normal and with no evidence of pain. The vet didn't recommend any MRI or other treatment, but supported my wife's suggestion for taking a week off from hunting. In reality, the dog wasn't suffering from a serious injury, merely tweaked his ankle.
The moral of my story is that dogs, like humans, can get banged up a little here and there and its hard to tell whether its serious or just a "walk it off" type situation. I would recommend taking normal precautions, schedule an appointment with your vet, but don't panic too quickly thinking your dog tore an ACL or has another injury. That being said, if your dog has severe pain, or is in a situation where quick attention may be important, then don't hesitate to seek help immediately.
I hope that your dog is OK...
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Same dog, Labrador retriever, both legs. We had the TPLO surgery, and it went smooth. Have to have them mostly crated for 4 weeks but no big deal.
Had a similar injury with my bulldog mix puppy recently and it turned out to be a soft tissue injury. In about 10,days she was fine and back running full speed.
My 95 lb flat coated retriever tore both of his CCLs (dogs don't have ACLs). Thankfully, not at the same time, but leg #2 went a year after the first (this is common). I would empty my bank account for our dogs - they are our children - so I opted for TPLO surgery at U of Minnesota, where we live. This was about $5K per surgery, just to give you an idea of what you're in for (and no, pet insurance doesn't cover it (does it cover anything???)
Our dog healed fast. We were diligent about icing his knee, keeping him in pain meds and limiting his movement. We even slept in the floor with him for the first surgery. I carried him outside and even build a crude tool that helped take weigh of his back legs when walking. Essentially, - medium towel, with rope handles sewn in. Went under his haunches and I carried him from the side while he sniffed around for a spot to pee.
The first week or two is a real pain in the ass. Try to do it around the holidays so you'll be home with your pup. PM me if you want any more advice. Happy to help.
Our dog was 5 or 6 when we did this. He is 10 now and gets around great but we don't let him chase tennis balls any longer because he could tear a meniscus or injury himself again. We are happy we did it.
Our dog healed fast. We were diligent about icing his knee, keeping him in pain meds and limiting his movement. We even slept in the floor with him for the first surgery. I carried him outside and even build a crude tool that helped take weigh of his back legs when walking. Essentially, - medium towel, with rope handles sewn in. Went under his haunches and I carried him from the side while he sniffed around for a spot to pee.
The first week or two is a real pain in the ass. Try to do it around the holidays so you'll be home with your pup. PM me if you want any more advice. Happy to help.
Our dog was 5 or 6 when we did this. He is 10 now and gets around great but we don't let him chase tennis balls any longer because he could tear a meniscus or injury himself again. We are happy we did it.
Any idea what to expect cost wise? I've seen anything from $1k to $5k which is a huge range. Also, any surgeon recommendations in the Pittsburgh area?
Mine were about $3000 a pop but that was for the TPLO surged the more expensive one. Instead of repairing the ligament to have it tear again, they actually reshape the bone and use a plate. Mind you, my Lab was huge. This was a few years ago in Austin though.
It was done at a specialty hospital. The funny thing I remember is all the surgeons were from OSU. I think there is a similar hospital in or around Cranberry.
It was done at a specialty hospital. The funny thing I remember is all the surgeons were from OSU. I think there is a similar hospital in or around Cranberry.
Lots of experience with CCL (the dog equivalent of human ACL) tears. My dog has had two.
First, I would highly recommend surgery. The ligament never heals and the constant slipping of the bones will cause a lifetime of pain and the early onset of arthritis.
Second, if you're going to go the surgical route do it immediately as that will help prevent later arthritis.
Third, if you have a vet surgeon who can perform a TPLO take that option. My dog's left knee was repaired with the older (and cheaper) lateral suture surgery, in which monofilament line is sewn is a replacement ligament. In time the line dissolves but the scar tissue acts as the ligament (although not as flexible). With TPLO the angles between the bones is altered and a ligament isn't necessary. The pain level and recovery time are much, much less. My dog's TPLO right leg is his dominant one and there's no pain or arthritis.
Fourth, be prepared to keep you dog quiet for months, especially with the lateral suture surgery. Section off a part of a room with no slick floors and nothing to jump on. And walk your dog on a leash during the entire recovery time.
First, I would highly recommend surgery. The ligament never heals and the constant slipping of the bones will cause a lifetime of pain and the early onset of arthritis.
Second, if you're going to go the surgical route do it immediately as that will help prevent later arthritis.
Third, if you have a vet surgeon who can perform a TPLO take that option. My dog's left knee was repaired with the older (and cheaper) lateral suture surgery, in which monofilament line is sewn is a replacement ligament. In time the line dissolves but the scar tissue acts as the ligament (although not as flexible). With TPLO the angles between the bones is altered and a ligament isn't necessary. The pain level and recovery time are much, much less. My dog's TPLO right leg is his dominant one and there's no pain or arthritis.
Fourth, be prepared to keep you dog quiet for months, especially with the lateral suture surgery. Section off a part of a room with no slick floors and nothing to jump on. And walk your dog on a leash during the entire recovery time.
So we got back from the vet and they said from what they could tell on the xrays is that it's a partial tear. When she walks she's been mostly hopping on the three legs, but she occasionally will put some weight on it. The vet said that's a sign that it's not fully torn.. She said that we'll want to wait two weeks to see if she's doing any better. If she's not, she said we can then do surgery on the partial tear.
I don't think an x-ray can show whether it's partially or fully torn. And the extent of the dog's touching the floor isn't a clear indicator either.
The standard test is called the "drawer test" where the vet attempts the slide the tibia forward from the femur. The degree of "slide" allows them to determine if it's fully torn -- it's really the gold standard for CCL rupture testing.
Is your vet experienced with CCL tears?
Use of radiographs in ACL tears..... http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/August-2009/How-To-Confirm-Partial-ACL-Tear/
I have two Akitas and have suffered through this issue. With large dogs, it seems the TPLO( tibia plateau level osteotomy) did the trick and the attempted repairs failed. I would see an orthopedic surgeon who has done this procedure, and go from there. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. http://www.tploguide.com/tplo-surgery.php West of Philly Dr Franczuski is amazing. To perform this surgery on a dog's leg is just incredible. The bones are so thin. http://vrcmalvern.com/team/franczuszki/ Good Luck
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The article says x-rays can "be suggestive" of an ACL tear due to changes in the joint. But it doesn't show the tear itself so it can't give a true diagnosis. As I said above, the best way to diagnose a tear and whether it's complete or partial is the drawer test.
Had an Akita. She tore 1st ACL at 11mos. Tore 2nd a year later. $3K for each. Luckily we had pet insurance that covered 70%
Dogs knees are very different than humans. the femur is essentially always trying to slide off the fibula and is held in place by the ACL.
For small dogs, they often replace/repair the ligament.
For big dogs(my akita was 80lbs) they do this crazy surgery where they cut the fibula and rotate it to position the knee so that the femur sits on top of the fibula nd the tibuia is not needed. Recovery was several months. worst part is once they do one, the other is more likely to go. Glad we had the surgery (not sure there was an option for bigger dogs). Good Luck!
If you can give him a shot, get this:
https://racehorsemeds.com/product/pentosan-injection/
You'll need insulin syringes , the dosage is based on weight. A 200 lb male ( it works on humans) would use 1 cc 2x a week for 2,3 weeks then weekly as needed.
You can read on the mechanism on google . Low, non serious sides and quite effective . The acl won't repair , but one way this works is by cartilage repair .
https://racehorsemeds.com/product/pentosan-injection/
You'll need insulin syringes , the dosage is based on weight. A 200 lb male ( it works on humans) would use 1 cc 2x a week for 2,3 weeks then weekly as needed.
You can read on the mechanism on google . Low, non serious sides and quite effective . The acl won't repair , but one way this works is by cartilage repair .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentosan_polysulfate
Cough , cough , works great on people too. The sports med doc for the Patriots uses it. He's the brother in law of a soldier friend. The retired soldier told me about it. Took my chronic elbow pain down to close to zero in a few hours and calmed down an IT band strain in the same time .
It's approved by the FDA for bladder cystitis in the USA , but it's effective for most aches and pains and arthritis . Have to buy it on your own though, but it's cheap . App 3$ a week.
Cough , cough , works great on people too. The sports med doc for the Patriots uses it. He's the brother in law of a soldier friend. The retired soldier told me about it. Took my chronic elbow pain down to close to zero in a few hours and calmed down an IT band strain in the same time .
It's approved by the FDA for bladder cystitis in the USA , but it's effective for most aches and pains and arthritis . Have to buy it on your own though, but it's cheap . App 3$ a week.
I can only tell you my story. My dog had a torn ACL and the vet recommended surgery and it was expensive. My friend said his dog had gone through the same thing. He said he did not have the surgery done and his dog returned to normal activity levels within a period of 2 months. I decided to do the same and the same held true for my dog. Best of luck on whatever you decide.
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I'm not knowledgeable on the ACL surgery but I have had a Boxer. If the Boxer is young, you will almost assuredly have a difficult time keeping her from running on it during the rehab period. As you know, Boxers are very high energy. Keeping them down will be an extreme challenge
22.... I agree a radiograph is NOT conclusive, however, it is used as an "aid" in the diagnosis. As a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine for the last 27 years I have been taught and learned to use "all" available diagnostics to make the most conclusive diagnosis possible. I will never turn down an opportunity to confirm a diagnosis via secondary methods. I want my client and patients to get the best care possible. I have done many "cranial drawer tests". Many are straight forward and obvious that the ligament is torn.... in other cases the diagnosis is not so obvious. Secondly, have learned to not question another DVM's diagnosis unless I talk to him/her directly and get the complete history of the animal. To many times the client doesn't give me the full story and leaves out details that are important, upon a secondary exam. I owe that much to my colleagues as a professional courtesy.
