Playing Ohio State in the 11th game of the season is a real plus, by that time everyone will have experience and the main reason I think we beat them this year bc by that time the team should know whats at stake if we're undefeated by then
WE ARE going to be REALLY GOOD this year....and here is why...
- Thread starter MontereyLion
- Start date
Dabo Swinney used to be called “Dumbo” Swinney because of his in-game coaching gaffes, etc. Now he’s considered one of the best coaches in America. Two things happened, he got the best talent in the world and hired and has kept reliable assistants. JF weakness is definitely in-game coaching decisions, but that can be overcome. I’d expect it to....in 2020. This year is to set up for 2020 to be potentially be one of the best ever.
I disagree. This head coach has not proven to be a good game day coach. Of course for those who would rather just look at the numbers 9-4 looks fine. Look inside the numbers and you see we lost games we shouldn't have last year and IT IS COACHING.
So says the message board poster who’s never coached in his life...I love Monday morning coaches.
Is it really controversial to say Franklin has lost majority of close games against OSU, MSU the last 4 years while getting pounded by UM? Team was also not ready to play against UK. Too much sensitivity. He is not proven to be a great game day coach yet. You have to close out team when up in 4th. Great game day coaches get teams to perform when it matters. See Clemson SU last year. Backup QB comes in and throws darts after Lawrence goes down. They score and win. Clutch in game = coached to be clutch.
Little known fact is that Penn State, under Franklin, has won more games when trailing entering the 4th quarter than it has lost games with a lead entering the 4th quarter.
Instead of just saying Franklin can’t close games, let’s dig a little deeper and you see a common theme is a critical injury that Penn State didn’t have the depth to overcome.
In 2016, once we lost Brandon Bell the defense suddenly became a sieve against USC in the Rose Bowl as Manny Bowen was suspended. In 2017, we lost Bates against OSU and McSorley started running for his life in the 4th while OSU slowly mounted its comeback. That comeback was also due to a non-existant pass rush forced by another injury to Bucholtz as 215lbs redshirt freshman Shaka Toney was completely worn down by the 4th quarter.
Both the Bucholtz and Bates injuries carried over to the MSU game and you had the four hour weather delay to deal with. Give those two injuries back and PSU goes 12-0 in 2017.
In 2018, the offense completely stalled out against OSU once we lost Hamler. Against MSU, Trace was playing with a throwing shoulder injury sustained against OSU and wasn’t himself. Maybe you could pin that on the coaches but you might have been going all the way down to Sean Clifford at that point.
All programs have major injuries and it often determines the season outcome. The elite programs have the depth to deal with the injuries. Penn State did not.
No I haven't. But I do hold the coach being paid $5.6 million a year accountable for wins and losses.
I loved Joe as much as anyone here. But using him as an example, I’m confident we lost games due to in game decisions he made. No coach is perfect, they all make mistakes or miss a decision that would change the outcome. You’re going to win by some of those decisions and lose with some.
Yea, I agree. Franklin probably saw he isn't the highest paid coach and decided to drop a couple games
That is exactly the point of my post. Until this year we have not had the depth of talent to overcome the normal wear and tear of injuries that happen in football games. When a player got injuried we either let them stay in the game, like we did with Trace, or replaced them with a player that was not nearly as good. Both choices affected the outcome of games. This year our talent level through out the team is such that the drop off in the level of play in replacing an injuried player will be minimal. Also because of the talent level of our backups, they will be able to more readily give the starters time to rest during the game, which will help the starters stay fresher in the fourth quarter. Especially in the big games, where endurance can make a difference. Should I have made that 2 or 3 paragraphs?
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Once again, the Franklin can’t coach meme appears. Yeah, it is so “obvious” that James Franklin can’t coach. Why, just look at his record (sarcasm font):
A. Vanderbilt
The # of wins for Vanderbilt since 2000:
3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 4, 5, 7, 2, 2 … then comes James Franklin … 6, 9, 9 … then Franklin leaves Vanderbilt … 3, 4, 6
Oh, wait. Those 3 years were the ONLY 3 years that the SEC sucked. Franklin just caught the SEC at the perfect time.
B. Penn State
Franklin inherits all the talent the NCAA allowed Bill O’Brien to recruit (i.e., not much). With a struggling OL and a QB who couldn’t complete a screen pass, JF still manages to go 7-6 and win a Bowl game.
However, in his first season, Franklin faced 1 of the top HCs in the nation in Urban Meyer. How’d that work out? Thanks to equipment failure, 4 extra seconds to get a FG attempt off, and incredible calls like “leaping” on Mauti (thank you, John O’Neill), the Buckeyes squeezed out a double-OT win.
Very few HCs in the conference have managed to beat an Urban Meyer team (Mr. Sleepover never managed a single victory despite all that talent at Michigan). Meyer annually recruited at Alabama’s level; yet, Franklin played the Buckeyes at an almost equal level, aside from 2015, despite a huge disparity in talent. The losses in 3 of the games were by 7, 1, and 1.
C. The Joe Moorhead Factor
While other CFB programs were getting their OCs from Power5 schools, Franklin went to … Fordham? Many people cast doubt on the choice. But when the new OC guides Penn State to a championship, does Franklin receive credit for hiring him?
Of course not. It was all due to the “genius” play caller, Joe Moorhead. Lucky for Joe that Franklin had recruited this generation’s greatest RB, a TE who didn’t drop a pass in 2 years, and WRs who could catch just about anything in their zip code.
Now that GJM is gone to Mississippi State, where his brilliant play calling netted 7 points against Kentucky (pfft, Ricky Rahne could only muster 24 against that same Wildcat defense), the “Franklin can’t coach” mantra rears its ignorant head.
In 2016 when PSU was coming from behind to win games in the 2nd half, the critics blamed Franklin for “not having the team ready to play” in the 1st half.
Them when the Lions led nearly every opponent in the 4th quarter but didn’t hold on to win them all, the critics blamed Franklin for “blowing leads.”
It doesn’t matter to these critics that Moorhead was the OC who blew leads to USC, OSU, and MSU. Joe M is a genius. When Rahne held on to a lead to defeat a Washington team that had supposedly one of the best defense in the nation, the critics blamed Franklin for turning a rout into a nail-biter.
I’ve given some reasons above why I think James Franklin has proven himself to be an excellent HC … not #1 in the country, but Top 10, IMO.
Can those of you who continue to bash him, give some specific evidence why you think he is so terrible? Just stating his record versus OSU, UM, and MSU is not really evidence. The first 2 have recruited supposedly more talent, and the Spartans have benefitted from (a) an absurd 4-hour home rain delay and (b) unbelievable dropped interceptions that cost PSU a win in 2018. Neither game is evidence of coaching, unless you think Franklin told Oruwariye to drop the ball.
And none of the 3 has suffered unreasonably severe NCAA sanctions.
A. Vanderbilt
The # of wins for Vanderbilt since 2000:
3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 4, 5, 7, 2, 2 … then comes James Franklin … 6, 9, 9 … then Franklin leaves Vanderbilt … 3, 4, 6
Oh, wait. Those 3 years were the ONLY 3 years that the SEC sucked. Franklin just caught the SEC at the perfect time.
B. Penn State
Franklin inherits all the talent the NCAA allowed Bill O’Brien to recruit (i.e., not much). With a struggling OL and a QB who couldn’t complete a screen pass, JF still manages to go 7-6 and win a Bowl game.
However, in his first season, Franklin faced 1 of the top HCs in the nation in Urban Meyer. How’d that work out? Thanks to equipment failure, 4 extra seconds to get a FG attempt off, and incredible calls like “leaping” on Mauti (thank you, John O’Neill), the Buckeyes squeezed out a double-OT win.
Very few HCs in the conference have managed to beat an Urban Meyer team (Mr. Sleepover never managed a single victory despite all that talent at Michigan). Meyer annually recruited at Alabama’s level; yet, Franklin played the Buckeyes at an almost equal level, aside from 2015, despite a huge disparity in talent. The losses in 3 of the games were by 7, 1, and 1.
C. The Joe Moorhead Factor
While other CFB programs were getting their OCs from Power5 schools, Franklin went to … Fordham? Many people cast doubt on the choice. But when the new OC guides Penn State to a championship, does Franklin receive credit for hiring him?
Of course not. It was all due to the “genius” play caller, Joe Moorhead. Lucky for Joe that Franklin had recruited this generation’s greatest RB, a TE who didn’t drop a pass in 2 years, and WRs who could catch just about anything in their zip code.
Now that GJM is gone to Mississippi State, where his brilliant play calling netted 7 points against Kentucky (pfft, Ricky Rahne could only muster 24 against that same Wildcat defense), the “Franklin can’t coach” mantra rears its ignorant head.
In 2016 when PSU was coming from behind to win games in the 2nd half, the critics blamed Franklin for “not having the team ready to play” in the 1st half.
Them when the Lions led nearly every opponent in the 4th quarter but didn’t hold on to win them all, the critics blamed Franklin for “blowing leads.”
It doesn’t matter to these critics that Moorhead was the OC who blew leads to USC, OSU, and MSU. Joe M is a genius. When Rahne held on to a lead to defeat a Washington team that had supposedly one of the best defense in the nation, the critics blamed Franklin for turning a rout into a nail-biter.
I’ve given some reasons above why I think James Franklin has proven himself to be an excellent HC … not #1 in the country, but Top 10, IMO.
Can those of you who continue to bash him, give some specific evidence why you think he is so terrible? Just stating his record versus OSU, UM, and MSU is not really evidence. The first 2 have recruited supposedly more talent, and the Spartans have benefitted from (a) an absurd 4-hour home rain delay and (b) unbelievable dropped interceptions that cost PSU a win in 2018. Neither game is evidence of coaching, unless you think Franklin told Oruwariye to drop the ball.
And none of the 3 has suffered unreasonably severe NCAA sanctions.
Since the Michigan loss in 2016, Penn State has had a lead in every game in the 4th quarter except this year at Michigan and against Kentucky. That’s a remarkable record and a tribute to good coaching that they had the team in a position to win in nearly every game. Since Michigan in 2016, they are 29-5 when leading in the 4th quarter.
I like your optimism. My concern on offense is that we need 2 inexperienced OL, 2 inexperienced WR, and 1 inexperienced QB to step up. That's asking a lot IMO. They have good pedigrees but the competition is also stiff. Let's hope they grow up fast.
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Great post! It still probably won't calm the antiFranklin crowd, but very well said!
This years team is going to be really good! We'll need a little bit of good luck, but what championship team doesn't need some luck?! Almost every year, the best teams in the country have close call games, that they barely make it out of! That's why they play the games!
We could have a huge improvement if our special teams are not awful. We were putrid in almost all phases of special teams. Even our punting took a step back.
Better special teams could produce two more wins.
Better special teams could produce two more wins.
Too much inexperience and too many brand new players to expect much this season. Qb has not thrown more than a handful of passes. Leading tackler on defense wasn't even a starter last year. Defense wise the d line wore down last year and lacks depth. New safety this year and new starting corner. Poor fg kicking. Poor special teams. No go to wide receiver and new running back. Lost 3 starters on o line which wasn't very good anyway. I'm happy with 7-5.
Other than the gunshots Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
Good post. Agree with all of it. I hate seeing the Lions lose to any of tOSU, UM, or MSU, but the Lions really MUST beat the crap out of Sparty this year. The last two seasons have seen remarkably disappointing losses to Sparty. If the Lions beat them and even just split the other two games with tOSU and UM, a good bowl game is likely. I also think Clifford qualifies as a big question mark, but that he will be good. He has looked pretty decent in the limited game action he has seen.
And it’s a shame no other team in the nation lost anyone...that makes it really tough for us year after year being the only program that loses players and have to bring in new ones.
Ive been watching Penn State football for the last 25 years, ever since I was 14 years old, I havent missed a game in those 25 years whether I was at the game or watching it on tv, I seen every single one of them in those 25 years, even when my son was born I had the game on in the hospital room, I remember every player that came through here, except for a few walkons, and recently in the past 10 years or so, this year is one of the only years I feel really good about what we have on offense and defense and think if we dont make stupid mistakes and get a few breaks it can be a special year, we have the talent and depth to do it and its all about the player mindsets
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This is the year of “No More Excuses”, hence why the season will mostly be defined by the coaching (head and assistant) or, more likely, lack thereof.
Here’s why
1) The recruited talent is undeniably on the roster and available for participation
2) The “coaching” has been in place for 5+ years
3) The roster is more than sufficiently loaded at all of the skill positions
4) hereafter it’s on the coaches...off field, on field and particularly “in game”
CJF should be feeling the pressure to deliver a “significantly meaningful” season. Let’s see what he is capable of delivering without throwing other individuals under any proverbial busses to save his own butt.
My preseason expectations are set sufficiently low...to the point they’ve already been met.
Here’s why
1) The recruited talent is undeniably on the roster and available for participation
2) The “coaching” has been in place for 5+ years
3) The roster is more than sufficiently loaded at all of the skill positions
4) hereafter it’s on the coaches...off field, on field and particularly “in game”
CJF should be feeling the pressure to deliver a “significantly meaningful” season. Let’s see what he is capable of delivering without throwing other individuals under any proverbial busses to save his own butt.
My preseason expectations are set sufficiently low...to the point they’ve already been met.
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They really do need to develop a sarcasm font. Well done.
Hah, exactly. The excuse parade comes out when people comment on JFs tough 4th qtr losses, particularly against Big Three. Funny, how we never talk about close wins. What if we don't block FG against OSU, or can't stop Clements on 4th down..or Juwan drops Iowa TD. Close games that are winnable will define your career and simply commenting that JF has not proven to be great big game coach is simply pointing to facts over last 4 years. Kentucky loss was inexcusable. He must get better. He would probably admit that.
Being in a position to win almost every game should define a career. If they’re in a position to win and don’t execute, that’s on the players not the coach...and I’m sure the players would admit that.
I think you can be 100% in Franklin's corner and also believe he has room to grow with game coaching on the big stage. You can point to examples of really good game coaching and also to games where decisionmaking was shaky and I'm sure James would agree. Coaches have a growing process just like players. Every big time coach including Saban has had to get experience coaching in high profile, high-pressure games. No substitute for experience.
But if you want to evaluate Franklin based on the whole package, on the 6 or 8 jobs that a head coach does, there can be absolutely no doubt he is a phenomenal football coach and PSU is extremely lucky to have him. Who could even question that?
Recruiting and player development are really the most important jobs of a head coach, and Franklin (and Galt) are doing about as well as anybody in the country. Penn State is an NFL pipeline like it hasn't been in 25 years, and it is a pipeline for literally every position on the football field, which Penn State never was before.
And it's not like Franklin is recruiting and developing but not seeing results on the field. Players play their hearts out for Franklin -- you can see it. Player leadership in games has been exceptional and allowed them to pull out tight games. Scheming and play calling has been really good on both sides of the ball. They have blown out some very strong football teams (like Michigan in 2017) and they also have won super close games with clutch play (like App State last year and Iowa the year before).
And I definitely agree that depth, particularly OL and DL depth, was a big part of losing to tOSU and MSU the last two seasons, and depth should be better this year barring injuries.
Franklin fixed what he had to fix this offseason with Lorig and Parker. And hopefully Rahne has a great sophomore season and answers the questions that a lot of people have about his game-day coaching ability. Rahne is the biggest question mark on the team as I see it, but there too, my guess is Rahne shows a lot of improvement this year as he grows into the job.
But if you want to evaluate Franklin based on the whole package, on the 6 or 8 jobs that a head coach does, there can be absolutely no doubt he is a phenomenal football coach and PSU is extremely lucky to have him. Who could even question that?
Recruiting and player development are really the most important jobs of a head coach, and Franklin (and Galt) are doing about as well as anybody in the country. Penn State is an NFL pipeline like it hasn't been in 25 years, and it is a pipeline for literally every position on the football field, which Penn State never was before.
And it's not like Franklin is recruiting and developing but not seeing results on the field. Players play their hearts out for Franklin -- you can see it. Player leadership in games has been exceptional and allowed them to pull out tight games. Scheming and play calling has been really good on both sides of the ball. They have blown out some very strong football teams (like Michigan in 2017) and they also have won super close games with clutch play (like App State last year and Iowa the year before).
And I definitely agree that depth, particularly OL and DL depth, was a big part of losing to tOSU and MSU the last two seasons, and depth should be better this year barring injuries.
Franklin fixed what he had to fix this offseason with Lorig and Parker. And hopefully Rahne has a great sophomore season and answers the questions that a lot of people have about his game-day coaching ability. Rahne is the biggest question mark on the team as I see it, but there too, my guess is Rahne shows a lot of improvement this year as he grows into the job.
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Sure, whatever..except it does not work that way. Wins and losses will eventually fall on coach. If you strive for moral victories against OSU, MSU then congrats, JF has reached the mountain top.
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