That appears to be our ranking in NIL as well. This all correlates with our performance on the field.I read 1.6 mil for Kotelnicki in year 1. $1.8 in year 3 per multiple sources.
Penn State Football: How Much Will Andy Kotelnicki Make With Nittany Lions
What will the Nittany Lions be paying the man they hope will turn their offense into one competing for a National Championship?www.sportstalkphilly.com
That would only put him around #15 just ahead of Tim Banks and Kirk Ciorrocca.
I doubt PSU staff is in the top 10 of total pay. PSU always loses guys to SEC schools. Tennessee, LSU, Bama have all cherry picked coaches off the staff. OSU, Georgia, UM , USC, TAMU and Texas have more money. Clemson and FSU are up there. I would like to see a total salary for staff.
I would guess PSU is usually in the 10-15 range which is right about in line with the performance.
What are we to make of our receiver situation?
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Yes that is fine but the question being raised is if we can ever punch above our weight class, ever? Could we ever beat OSU once every 4 years or is this unthinkable?? I guess once every 10 years is what to expect by most here or maybe never?
So say Oregon is #12 in coaches salary, NIL and recruiting and we are #14. Not sure this is accurate but just go with me here. Under the type of thinking that we should perform where our NIL ranking is or where our coaches salaries rank or recruiting then maybe we eek out a win over Oregon once every ten years. That is our expectation and we are good with that?
I think we can do much better given the fan support, resources and talent (did we all see how many Penn Staters got drafted?!). And I will criticize Franklin until the cows come if that is the best he can do. I guess I am a complaining fan.
1000% agree. The logic some people have on here who give a pass to JF and the program b/c we shouldn't expect more than what our NIL rank is, or where our facilities are, is nonsensical. Weekly there are programs who either pull upsets, or punch slightly above their weight, and win big games. We don't. JF doesn't elevate the team on Gameday to play above themselves, and sometimes, they regress vs garbage opponents until the D has to bail them out...see last year vs ILL, NW, etc.
What about the disappointing losses JF incurred prior to NIL and the portal being around for like five minutes. What were the excuses then? Oh, well, our location makes it difficult, or the admin buy in, etc. It's all hot air. Sports can't be looked at as black and white, or chalk so to speak. To throw another hypothetical example similar to yours, If we lose to Washington this year (which would be brutal since that team is a shell of what they were), and let's just say they enter with an NIL rank higher than us, the logic by some on here is: "well we should expect that." It's utterly ridiculous. No wonder JF feels probably as comfortable as anyone in the industry with a fanbase that thinks being annual 'frauds' and the punchline for 'almost but not quite' is acceptable.
That poster said NIL all correlates to our on field performance...huh? It's been around for like a few minutes. What about the droves of NFL guys we have had and the tremendous showing we've had in the Draft over the last decade. Where are the big, program changing wins? NIL had zero to do with that...and while it is the sexy topic at hand, I still think the core and guts of any program, is unrelated to NIL. That is where it starts.
I didn't read through the whole thread, but this is a situation where the coaches need to earn their sizeable salaries. We lost some experienced Offensive Linemen, but we have two really solid Running Backs, plus some potential depth, a decent Tight End (and we consistently seem to have another waiting in the wings), and a more-seasoned QB. So the coaches should give the (relatively unknown) Receivers a shot within a balanced offense, but remain flexible in the event of struggles to get open and/or injuries.
If we have to pivot to a run-first philosophy, even very early in the season, then forget about "explosive plays", and just grind it out to the tune of ~2,000 to 2,250 passing yards and ~2,500 to 3,000 rushing yards, which is not a formula that will be beatable by the majority of the Big 10, especially the newcomers, and especially with our defense.
Last year it was clear that the passing game was being forced in spite of Drew's inexperience and the Receiver situation, and the blame for that falls on the OC AND Franklin- one of those guys is gone, and the other better have finally learned his lesson, because we had a similar situation in prior seasons and failed to adjust.
If we have to pivot to a run-first philosophy, even very early in the season, then forget about "explosive plays", and just grind it out to the tune of ~2,000 to 2,250 passing yards and ~2,500 to 3,000 rushing yards, which is not a formula that will be beatable by the majority of the Big 10, especially the newcomers, and especially with our defense.
Last year it was clear that the passing game was being forced in spite of Drew's inexperience and the Receiver situation, and the blame for that falls on the OC AND Franklin- one of those guys is gone, and the other better have finally learned his lesson, because we had a similar situation in prior seasons and failed to adjust.
Well said....how many throwing attempts for Drew on the road against OSU? 19 for 42! Just made no sense considering our receivers limitations last year. We need to be a pound the rock team, throw in some screen games and outside pitches, use the TEs a lot, couple deep throws if defense puts 8 in the box.
The loss to Minnesota in 2019 was because the locker room facilities and weight room needed an upgrade. Not because CJF and staff continued to call endzone fades to a 5'7 kj Hamler.
Or the terrible 2018 season with the homecoming loss to a garbage MSU team...a listless performance vs UK in the bowl; Same with the Outback vs Ark; If we had more buy-in, we win those games. LOL, that is the rhetoric.
Name someone better who wants the job and bring them in. Make sure they have a winning record vs the top ten OSU and Michigan.
That rules out Rhule, schiano and golden who have zero wins vs the top ten combined.
Lol...ok. I'm sure that is the only metric Kraft or anyone would use. Keep spewing your usual excuses and 'nobody can do better' nonsense. Who here even mentioned rhule, schiano, or golden? U talk in circles unknowingly.
I'm by no means a Fire Franklin guy, and I would not support firing him.
But I think it's a bit of a caricature to demand that a replacement have a winning record against 2 of the top 4 programs in college football. Kirby Smart, Dan Lanning, Ryan Day, Lincoln Riley, Dabo Swinney......all went straight from coordinator to HC at a major program. We can't just limit the pool of potential candidates to existing HCs and then scrutinize their records. There aren't (m)any viable HCs out there with better records than James Franklin, but there absolutely might be some assistants who can win big at Penn State.
Just depends on how content we are with the 10-3 type of rhythm we've gotten in. Winning 10 games most years is a great place to be in, but if your personal metric for success is "elite", then I don't see us getting there. Just depends on what you're content with.
i expect a lot of work around TE and RB passing stuff. It would also help with QB confidence, which has been lacking in big games.
Name someone better who wants the job!
Make sure they have a winning record vs the top ten.
It is a perfectly reasonable to require the replacement has a winning record or at least projects a winning record vs the top ten or even Michigan and OSU when that is the main criticism Franklin.
Do you think the criteria is unreasonable for a new head coach? It is the same criteria the naysayers use for Franklin.
You can name anyone you want on the planet. You can pic a D2, d3, NFL coach, or college assistant. Name a someone! We will see how they do as a college HC. We will see if they outperform Franklin at this level.
You can even pick an existing top coach and we can debate if they would come here. Saban, dabo and smart are not taking pay cuts to come here. Urban turned down the job.
There are only about 5 coaches a year with winning records vs the top 10. That is usually the top 5. The field is usually about 10-110 vs the top 10 during the regular season. The top 5 then knock off 6-10 at the end of the year.
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Winning records vs top ten? Heck just give me a win vs the top 10. Franklin can't do this. Or he barely does it like once vs OSU in almost 10 years.
You try to paint this scenario that it is Smart and then no one else now that Saban and Harbaugh are gone. Like you really believe James Franklin is the second best coach in the country?
Another poster said it. If we are happy as a #10 type team every year with 2 losses then Franklin is our guy. There are other guys who can go beyond what Franklin has done because Franklin rarely beats a top ten team yet he has a ton of NFL talent. So I would say Rhule could do it with PSU talent and no Nebraska talent. Leipold, the guy at A&M now. There are coordinators out there on and on. I don't get paid to come up with coaching candidates who could replace Franklin but for sure Pat Kraft has a list. When would he seriously think about activating that list? Who knows. Not now but maybe 2 or 3 years from now.
Is it a lock a replacement could come in and be better than Franklin? No. But the bar is simply at this point to beat OSU more than once a decade not 6 of 10 like you are saying. Would I like to win 6 of 10 from OSU? Yes but let's start with 2 of say 8 which Franklin can't even do yet you think he is irreplaceable. To sit there smugly and say no one can do better than Franklin so let's just accept rarely beating a top ten team is ridiculous.
I'm not so sure KLS is the loss everyone thinks he is. He was the third WR at the end of the season.
And, since Voltz is obtuse, he doesn't realize (as was mentioned already) that every coach starts off as a coordinator, position coach, etc. Smart, Dabo, Day, Lanning, Norvell, DeBoer, etc, didn't just wake up one day and turn into the HC of their program. How does Voltz or any of us know that making a hire of a coordinator, the hot name of thr day, will turn out. We don't. But, that is how it starts! His metrics aren't possible without starting at the beginning for a coach...u don't become a national title winning coach and a guy who beats top opponents without first being a nobody who has to prove it. So, this idea that nobody realistic could come here and do better not only is beyond idiotic, it is myopic in how the entire coaching industry works. I didn't know he could see the future.
I've always thought Kyle Whittingham as a very good HC. Multiple conference titles...beats the best in that league, and does so with good, but nowhere near elite talent or recruiting. And, most importantly, his teams are physically imposing and rugged...they are not soft like PSU is much of the time. Utah plays with an identity. Kyle is too old now as a replacement...but I'm just saying as an example. Voltz is looking for a proven Saban or nobody else is worthy of replacing his beloved JF.
The fact that this has to be spelled out is why I have him on mute. I just couldn't take it anymore.
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Lol. Didn't whittinghams best team lost to psu? Utah was not so physically imposing when psu was beating them.
The point you are too obtuse to understand is here are 100+ d1 coaches and only about 5 a year have winning records vs the top 10. You act like psu will suddenly be Alabama if they get a new coach.
I asked you to name a replacement who is better than Franklin and would want the job. You name a coach who lost to Franklin.
#1 most of the season. More catches than the rest of the returning receivers combined.
Yes but clearly that WR changed throughout the season. Early in the season, no injuries and KLS and Wallace looked great, even McClain. Then McClain disappeared with the drops. Then Wallace got hurt and we really only had KLS left. Then KLS totally disappeared in the last third of the season. The room needed a reboot and to get healthy.
A big if, does the room stay healthy? The top 3-4 (Flemming, Wallace, Saunders, Evans) likely guys have all had injury issues in their career so far. If they stay healthy, I think the room is better than last year. If they don't then it is a sequel. I don't see that guy that blows the top off of the D. That's what I would hope for in the portal, but it hasn't come.
Saunders was a high 4* recruit. #77 nationally and #12 WR with offers from Alabama & Florida State. I hoped for more at this point. Is he just too small at 5"10" 175lbs?
Good question. I seem to recall him showing up as a freshman carrying weight that they didn't want in an attempt to get himself onto the field sooner. Then I think he went on a reshaping plan. Not sure, but he hasn't broken out yet. I thought his big advantage at the HS level was change of direction and wiggle.
Maybe they press him off the line and he can't get to space where he can use his skillset? Maybe a new scheme helps him find the ball in space?
If Franklin had Whittingham's record in the PAC 12, you would probably want him fired. The identity and "not soft" comments don't work when you lose 3 games EVERY season since Utah joined the PAC 12. It just so happens that there hasn't been a 1000 lbs gorilla in the conference guarding the gate.
One can be unhappy that Franklin hasn't beaten OSU as much as one would like, but it's false to act like what Whittingham has done is more special or better when it isn't.
so basically our final ranking each year pretty much matches up with what we pay our coaches and how we recruit. Shocking.
Not nearly enough. 3-17 and 1-9 in his last 10 tries. And his record against Ohio State is embarrassing. I actually said "he barely does" when referring to his record vs top 10 teams and I stand by that assessment. Anybody would who does not drink the blue and white Kool Aid.
So he is batting a buck 50. How can any fan be satisfied with that??
I am not saying he should be fired now but if he cannot turn that train wreck of a trend around then, yes, he should be canned.
How bad does it need to get? 3-25., 4-35?? C'mon at some point getting a new fresh start with someone new is best for the program.
IIRC I said my expectation was a top 10 finish ~60 % of the time and to beat a team like OSU once every 4 years. Franklin has been just short of my top 10 expectation but he hasn't been close on beating OSU. Those two blown 4th qtr leads that led to 1 pt losses made all the difference.
I never said KW was better or is more special. He gets the most out of his talent at a program that has nowhere near the tradition, resources, etc. It's just an example of someone who I think is a good HC for what he has. They haven't lost 3 games a season because they are soft...they don't have the dudes vs Oregon, USC, overall. Utah's style of play is anything but soft. Michigan lost multiple games per season until their last 3 seasons...would u have deemed them soft? I wouldn't. Is Iowa soft because they don't win more? One doesn't necessarily equal the other. Is PSU soft in style of play IMO? Yes.
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I would be interested in knowing from that 2023 Rose Bowl game how many PSU players have been drafted and how many Utah players. I bet many more PSU guys. But Franklin did win the game so give him credit. 3 out of 20!
I think mentally we are soft. I say that because we seem to have an inability to make plays in the clutch. A lot of these big game losses were due to our lack of execution in crunch time. The defense crumbled vs USC and OSU in '17 and '18. Can't get the key TD in crunch time vs Minny in 2019. Can't make the winning plays vs Michigan in '21 and this year. Same for OSU in '22 and '23. The list seems endless.
You have a point about us being soft physically as well but not sure I would totally agree with that label. The D was stout under Diaz but Michigan did run it down our throats in '22 and '23. Our D-Line has not been as dominant as I would like in terms of sack production, disruptive tackles for loss, creating turnovers and generally wreaking havoc.. The O Line has improved. We absolutely were soft a few years ago but I would not say we are now.
Right...agreed. I don't think we are soft on D....that is what has kept us in big games recently. I think we are mentally soft as u mentioned. With all the talent and healthy NFL drafts we have had, our total inability (especially offensively) to have an answer or muscle up and win vs OSU or Mich is baffling. IMO, JF coaches soft, and hence u have a mentally soft team. As I've said before, he runs a friendship family camp, not a hard nosed program. I do think that enables him to recruit well and create important relationships with the families...but I just don't think there is enough piss & vinegar when it comes to the actual football. I know that is truly subjective and not something you can quantify (and I'm sure the fanboys will give me heat for that comment) -- however, as you said, enough losses have come via total collapses or inability to close out games. I'll even add the horrific bowl game performances vs SEC teams -- and not exactly the blue bloods of the league either.
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Only losing 3 games has been the best season at Utah since joining the PAC. They've lost 5, 6, even 7 a few times. It's an exercise in lowered expectations. You don't expect much and anything they do is gravy.
So if they lose, it's because they lack talent. If they win, it's because they play hard nosed football. At the end of the day, if Penn State replicated their success, nobody would be happier than the current Franklin run.
Then again, maybe they would. I've read a lot of posts that were happy with BOBs 8-4, 7-5 just because they thought we were a tough team.
Ok...and? JF has had multiple three loss seasons...that would mean based on this discussion that we play soft. Since apparently that is the metric being used. Which again, I agree with. From the numerous OL guys he has put in the NFL, you would think they could mesh and gel into a cohesive unit that could win some big games. But, they don't. Why? Is it the S&C program? Is it coaching by Traut? None of us know. But, the proof is in the pudding of being an annual pretender and a 'fraud' as many people say -- we clearly haven't been tough enough, whether that be mentally or physically, to get over the hump. Look at the heavy, unathletic guys we recruit at the OL -- not too many get to the 2nd level smoothly and with mobility.
That said, we have had more than enough talent to not go 1-9 vs OSU and get creamed at the LOS vs Michigan and in bowl games vs mid-level SEC programs. Just my opinion.
You don't like JF. You were jumping through hoops to put him down with the Whittingham reference.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but I don't feel as unhappy about it as you do. That is all.
Incorrect. I like JF as the face of the program. He is a very good CEO -- managing the branding, relationship building, and stabilizing the foundation part of a program. Those are aspects that are needed at all programs. I think he does a great job at those. As for gameday coaching and preparing for season altering games, I think he does a poor job. That doesn't mean I don't like him. But, I'm not sure how my latter comment is even debatable.
All I'm saying is, the excuses that are made (which are wide ranging) to me are getting stale and lazy. If some think that we have reached our ceiling, then fine, everyone is right to their opinion. I just totally disagree.
So criticism of the program is fair game but criticism of ridiculous criticism is not? NICE
Saban only became a great face of the program once he started winning a lot. Winning trumps all. We don't need a Mel Tucker running around either (although many would have gladly taken him after '21), but winning is what matters more than anything outside of a very few things that make one untouchable and unemployable.
I'm not happy with 1-9 vs OSU, but until we outspend them, griping about the HC is the least of our issues. Money matters. Georgia's ascent has more to do with the money spent than simply Kirby being this elite coach.
Why do you think Lincoln Riley was 10-2 at worst at OU and 10-2 at best at USC? The conference.
Money isn't the total panacea for JF"s woes....definitely some, but a blanket 100% is just a broad brush excuse. What about before NIL and the portal which has been around for like 10 minutes? TAMU, Miami, etc. all overspend in the NIL face, and so far, they have egg on their face. There is no guarantee. You devalue Kirby's ability. You are right...UGA invested in a hot name coordinator after Richt (who similarly has been compared to JF), couldn't get UGA to the next level. Kirby has won six division titles since 2016. Obviously, some way before NIL.
Urban Meyer, Jimbo, heck even Auburn won a freaking natl title before NIL & portal. What are your excuses for those?
Simply painting JF as a guy who has had 100% hands tied behind his back throughout his entire decade is soft, IMO.
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I have never once written JF has his arms tied behind his back. I don't think he is an elite coach. He reminds me of a former Paterno protégé: George Welsh. He can recruit, but he just isn't going to beat the best of the best very often.
I don't care if we move on or not (even though I know the contract says we don't), but I believe that we need more spending and better coaching to get over the playoff era championship hump. It's just reality.
Miami, A&M are advocates for just how hard it is. Yes, they spent the money, but on what? I doubt the money even left the bank considering half or more of the freshman bought didn't even stay over a season. None of which produced much either. And coaching has been far below JF, no? Unless someone wants to say "Fisher won a title" and prop him up.
This I agree with...its a combo of spending + better coaching (especially the latter), that will swing the pendulum. JF is a recruiter and talent gatherer, but being able to formulate a dominant group is questionable. Hence his #1 job. He's had multiple coordinators get HC jobs, and at some decent programs too. Combine that with the talent we've had and the common denominator seems to be JF meddling or being stubborn, I would think. At some point, **** runs downhill.
Yet mamy fans want to hire rhule golden or schiano who are batting .000. 0 wins vs the top 10.
You really don't understand stats. Teams 6-10 have a combined losing record vs the top 10. The top 5 are the teams with a winning record vs the top ten.
The field during the regular season is only about 10-110 vs the top 10.
maybe you should put up some money and psu can move into the top 5 in coaching salaries and then we can buy some top coordinators. Psu has had coaches poached to lsu, Tennessee, Bama and others.
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