Whiteout at BJC tomorrow.

[UncleLar]

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In 2017 Penn State made $933,082 in revenue from ticket sales and averaged an announced paid figure (tickets sold, not bodies in seats) of 7,345. I bet the actual number is closer to 6,000. When Penn St played princeton at Rec hall in 2013, the announced crowd was 6,188. You can bet that was fairly close to the number who were there. Looking at this picture, I wish I would have been. (Even though we lost in OT)

I get that the BJC could offer much larger crowds, and every season it seems there's 1-3 games where they get 11k+ for the games where they foresee the team drawing that in attendance the games could always be moved over... Instead we're stuck with the majority of the games looking like this.


Personally, I think 1-3k in attendance would be worth creating a home court environment while Penn State irons out this "Master Plan." Realistically basketball and wrestling should trade places, I feel like both teams would be much better served in the other's respective facility. Not saying this is a long term solution, but the buzz of 6100 consistently packing Rec Hall near the center of campus a short walk from downtown, certainly gives the lions an atmosphere they can build on. The BJC is a mausoleum, and the program has been dead pretty much ever since we moved to it.

Where's the master plan sandy?

I'm not arguing that the BJC is adequate. It isn't. It needs to be replaced - and Rec Hall isn't the answer.

Yes people showed up for the Princeton game - because they thought that it was going to be a unique one time experience. As soon as they tried to replicate the experience, it failed miserably.

In 2014, we played two home games early in December. Here's what they drew:

Wed Dec 10th against Duquesne drew 6565
Sun Dec 12th against GW drew 9991.

In 2016, we played three home games in early December. They drew

Sun Dec 3rd against Wright State drew 6227
Wed Dec 7th against George Mason drew 5694

That's an average of 7120

Sandwiched in between those two years, in 2015 we tried to recreate the Return to Rec experience with two games. Here's what they drew:

Thu Dec 10th against Canisius drew 4509
Sat Dec 12th against LA-Monroe drew 4824.

That's an average of 4665

The fans didn't show up (btw - the actual seats in fannies attendance was just like the BJC - a significantly large number of no-shows and they sat on their hands just like they do at the Jordan Center - it was horrible and you can bet that they won't do it again).

Rec Hall sucks when it comes to the fan experience. Parking is a pain in the ass, the seats are uncomfortable, lines are huge at both of the two conscession stands and the two bathrooms. People just won't go.

 

[psuguy43]

I LOVE how the students are, literally, standing on the court in those Rec Hall photos (FTR, I was able to attend a game at the Palestra last year... pretty cool experience, UPenn vs. Harvard).

I was a 6-pack ticket holder for PC (Providence College) at the Dunkin Donuts Center for the better part of a decade, until I moved back to PA recently. That venue is nice place to watch a game, no bad seats, but also I never felt like there was a large HCA either. The Dunk is much like the BJC, without the upper deck and an expanded lower bowl.

I couldn't figure out how they did it, but the corner seats in the Dunk don't give you the horrendous site lines that they give you in the BJC... but it looked like a very similar configuration? I loved it, I would buy cheap sideline tickets to see Nova, Gtown, Cuse, Xavier, etc... you can't walk up and buy cheap seats with good site lines at the BJC.

 

[UncleLar]

One thing not being considered here is the thousand(s) of season tickets purchased by fans who only use them a couple of times per year (hence, the ticket sold consistently being much higher than the butts in seats count).

If the transition was made, you better believe that these fans would still have their seats and the seats would still go empty. So, even if sold out, it wouldn't be packed to the rafters. On top of that, it would make it that much harder for fans who actually want to attend the game walk up and get tickets (because of technically selling out without many walk-up sales). I have heard that this amounts for 5k+ tickets. When you are talking about a 6k person arena, that doesn't leave many tickets to go around.

That's exactly what happened when they did the Return to Rec II. Season ticket holders bought seats then didn't go.

 

[UncleLar]

4,500 fannies in the seats against Canisius and La-Monroe?
That’s your argument AGAINST RecHall?

That’s probably twice the number that show for similar pre-Christmas Dog’s Breakfast games in BJC.

The Gentleman (as is so often the case) doth protest too much

That's why I listed the attendance at the games the year before and after Return to Rec II (and as I said, they were not fannies in the seats numbers, they had just as many no shows as the BJC does). They drew thousands (2500 more on average) at the BJC. For the record, the students were still here for all six of those games. They weren't pre Christmas games.

 

[psuguy43]

I

Mid-December isn’t “Pre-Christmas”?


LOL


Call it whatever you want then..... knock yourself out. I don’t think I care enough


And they don’t draw “thousands more” to the BJC..... regardless of what they “list”.
I’ve been there.

When it comes to tickets sold, they do. When it comes to butts in seats, they don't. Unfortunately, the former is what matters for the bottom line (tickets sold)

 

[NittanyLion15]

I'm not arguing that the BJC is adequate. It isn't. It needs to be replaced - and Rec Hall isn't the answer.

Yes people showed up for the Princeton game - because they thought that it was going to be a unique one time experience. As soon as they tried to replicate the experience, it failed miserably.

In 2014, we played two home games early in December. Here's what they drew:

Wed Dec 10th against Duquesne drew 6565
Sun Dec 12th against GW drew 9991.

In 2016, we played three home games in early December. They drew

Sun Dec 3rd against Wright State drew 6227
Wed Dec 7th against George Mason drew 5694

That's an average of 7120

Sandwiched in between those two years, in 2015 we tried to recreate the Return to Rec experience with two games. Here's what they drew:

Thu Dec 10th against Canisius drew 4509
Sat Dec 12th against LA-Monroe drew 4824.

That's an average of 4665

The fans didn't show up (btw - the actual seats in fannies attendance was just like the BJC - a significantly large number of no-shows and they sat on their hands just like they do at the Jordan Center - it was horrible and you can bet that they won't do it again).

Rec Hall sucks when it comes to the fan experience. Parking is a pain in the ass, the seats are uncomfortable, lines are huge at both of the two conscession stands and the two bathrooms. People just won't go.

I didn't say it was a long term solution. I said they should try to start fixing the program now, which means getting some kind of a home court advantage that shows the players their fellow students have their back. You really think people won't go to games at Rec Hall because of parking? That's really your argument? How about the fact the Wrestling sells out almost every match, not to mention women's Volleyball brings in near capacity crowds. There's plenty of places to park, the Nittany Parking Deck at the Inn, numerous garages downtown, suck it up and walk a few blocks.

Of course the games they chose to play at Rec Hall were poorly attended. Who the hell is Canisius and LA-Monroe, nobody would go to that even if we were a top 25 team. You start playing B1G Ten opponents Rec Hall with promotions taking place day of game enticing students to go to Rec Hall, "Restoring the Glory of Old State" .... something to that effect, and I guarantee you'd get 6000 students in that place and it would be an incredible atmosphere. Remember our student section has rallied in the face of mediocrity before and although the Whiteout record isn't all that great, it's been an incredible recruiting tool that single handily got Barkley's attention, flipping him from Rutgers. Helping Penn State move past "the dark years" with a student section that has a history of rallying for the cause when our teams struggled. We need to get people excited about the team, and it's extremely hard to do that when you've got drapes hanging down closing off half your facility covering up all our NIT championship banners......

To be real tho.... We've never been able to recruit consistently because the enthusiasm has never been able to build from one season to the next. This year, was a prime example of that. With some excitement lingering from last year's sweep of Ohio State, and winning streak to close out the season, I was cautiously optimistic that this year Chambers would be able to do something we've not had a coach do in.....

Season       Conf    W          L        Coach(es)
2018-19   Big Ten    7         9         Patrick Chambers (7-9)
2017-18   Big Ten   26        13       Patrick Chambers (26-13)
2016-17   Big Ten   15        18       Patrick Chambers (15-18)
2015-16   Big Ten   16        16       Patrick Chambers (16-16)
2014-15   Big Ten   18        16       Patrick Chambers (18-16)
2013-14   Big Ten   16        18       Patrick Chambers (16-18)
2012-13   Big Ten   10        21       Patrick Chambers (10-21)
2011-12   Big Ten   12        20       Patrick Chambers (12-20)
2010-11   Big Ten   19        5       Ed DeChellis (19-15)
2009-10   Big Ten   11        20      Ed DeChellis (11-20)
2008-09   Big Ten   27        11      Ed DeChellis (27-11)
2007-08   Big Ten   15        16      Ed DeChellis (15-16)
2006-07   Big Ten   11        19      Ed DeChellis (11-19)
2005-06   Big Ten   15        15      Ed DeChellis (15-15)
2004-05   Big Ten    7          23     Ed DeChellis (7-23)
2003-04   Big Ten    9          19     Ed DeChellis (9-19)
2002-03   Big Ten    7          21     Jerry Dunn (7-21)
2001-02   Big Ten    7          21     Jerry Dunn (7-21)
2000-01   Big Ten   21        12     Jerry Dunn (21-12)
1999-00   Big Ten   19        16      Jerry Dunn (19-16)
1998-99   Big Ten   13        14      Jerry Dunn (13-14)
1997-98   Big Ten   19        13      Jerry Dunn (19-13)
1996-97   Big Ten   10        17      Jerry Dunn (10-17)
1995-96   Big Ten   21         7      Jerry Dunn (21-7)
1994-95   Big Ten   21        11      Bruce Parkhill (21-11)
1993-94   Big Ten   13        14      Bruce Parkhill (13-14)
1992-93   Big Ten    7         20      Bruce Parkhill (7-20)
1991-92       Ind   21            8       Bruce Parkhill (21-8)
1990-91      A-10   21         11      Bruce Parkhill (21-11)
1989-90      A-10   25          9       Bruce Parkhill (25-9)
1988-89      A-10   20         12      Bruce Parkhill (20-12)
1987-88      A-10   13         14      Bruce Parkhill (13-14)
1986-87      A-10   15         12      Bruce Parkhill (15-12)
1985-86      A-10   12         17      Bruce Parkhill (12-17)
1984-85      A-10    8          19      Bruce Parkhill (8-19)
1983-84      A-10    5           22     Bruce Parkhill (5-22)

.... Well honestly I was hoping to see back to back 20+ win seasons... get some momentum going.. but sure enough... Depaul and Bradley had other ideas. Until we start recruiting top 20 classes, this conversation is going to continue. My logic is shake things up, try to create a unique home court advantage. Get the students excited about it, and the players will come. Until that happens, we might as well have them visit when the monster trucks or the life size dinosaurs are in town.

 

[UncleLar]

I

When it comes to tickets sold, they do. When it comes to butts in seats, they don't. Unfortunately, the former is what matters for the bottom line (tickets sold)

I was at both of the Return to Rec II games. While the official attendance averaged around 4500, the actual attendance was thousands less - just like at the BJC. So, not only did they draw thousands more in paid attendance, they also had thousands more "butts in seats" at the early December BJC games than they did at the Return to Rec II games. Those two Rec Hall games were horribly attended. If you can find anyone who was actually there other than me, I'm sure that they will confirm it. People went to the Princeton game because it was a well hyped novelty. The novelty was gone for the repeat performance and very few people went.

 

[UncleLar]

They'll have more at rec hall for wrestling tomorrow than the white out in the BJC. Basketball has become a train wreck.

Debatable, but they certainly won't sell more tickets (PSU has opened one of the upper decks for the game, so ticket sales will be around 10,000+).

Turns out I was right. Paid attendance was 10,196, and most of them were there. So the basketball game definitely had more fannies in the seats than wrestling did (announced attendance for wrestling was 6589).

 

[harjeff]

Maybe they would play better at Rec Hall and actually win a Big 10 game.

This team isn't winning anything until an actual basketball coach is found. I supported Chambers til this year, but it is painfully obvious he has no clue how to actually coach the kids up. No semblance of an offense is discernible as they constantly run around and just chuck up bad shots. FT shooting is atrocious. Need some new blood in the program as 8 years is enough.

 

[GregInPitt]

Black Shoes Diaries B10 power ratings, sadly :

1. Michigan (Last Week: 1) - The still undefeated Wolverines notched a school record 17th consecutive win last night in an 80-60 pasting of Northwestern. Their only game this week is a road trip to Madison to take on a Wisconsin team that has been shaky as of late.
2. Michigan State (2) - Much like their rivals in Ann Arbor, Sparty continues to chug along, dispatching Purdue and Penn State last week.
3. Maryland (5) - With a pair of wins over Minnesota on the road and Indiana at home, the Terps are suddenly staking claim to being the best team in the Big Ten outside of the state of Michigan. Star forward Bruno Fernando’s 25 points and 13 rebounds helped spark a furious second half rally to defeat Indiana.
4. Indiana (3) - The Hoosiers followed up a road loss at Michigan by blowing a second half lead at Maryland, starting a two-game losing skid. The Hoosiers have a home date with Nebraska tonight (Monday) before going to West Lafayette this coming Saturday to take on their bitter rivals at Purdue.
5. Minnesota (6) - The Gophers bounced back from losing to Maryland to deliver a beatdown of Rutgers. Having won seven of their last eight games, they are certainly trending in the right direction. Even better, they face bottom-feeders Illinois and Penn State this week.
6. Purdue (8) - Carsen Edwards’ 36 points helped lift the Boilers to a clutch overtime win on the road at Wisconsin. They get a tune-up game against Rutgers (which may not be as much of a tune-up as once seen) before hosting their arch-rivals Indiana this weekend.
7. Wisconsin (7) - The Badgers were unable to use their win at Penn State as a springboard, losing a tough one in overtime at home to Purdue.
8. Iowa (9) - The Hawkeyes are riding a three game winning streak after 10-point wins over Northwestern and Ohio State. That streak will very likely extend to four on Wednesday night when they take on Penn State.
9. Ohio State (4) - The Buckeyes are now on a three game losing skid, which was exacerbated by getting upset at Rutgers. Things don’t get any easier for Chris Holtmann’s crew with a surging Maryland squad coming to Columbus this week.
10. Nebraska (10) - After taking care of business at home against Penn State, the Huskers now face their most challenging week yet, going on the road to play Indiana tonight and then hosting Michigan State on Thursday. A win against either team would help immensely with their NCAA Tournament hopes.
11. Northwestern (11) - After back-to-back double digit losses to Iowa and Michigan, the Wildcats now must head on the road to face an improving Rutgers squad this coming Friday night. Have fun with that, Chris Collins!
12. Rutgers (13) - Rutgers coach Steve Pikiell notched his first victory over a ranked opponent by beating Ohio State at home, 64-61. For that alone, they are getting bumped ahead of...
13. Penn State (12) - As I stated last week, if either Rutgers or Illinois would win a game and PSU (predictably) remained winless in conference play, that I would bump them ahead of PSU. As you can see, I am a man of my word.
14. Illinois (14) - Well, kudos I guess, to the Illini for only losing by 10 points at home to Michigan?

 

[LoyalandTrueLion]

Turns out I was right. Paid attendance was 10,196, and most of them were there. So the basketball game definitely had more fannies in the seats than wrestling did (announced attendance for wrestling was 6589).

You may have been right but I saw lots of seats with white shirts draped over them. It is really embarrassing. Almost as embarrassing as his record in the Big Ten. Maybe he can punch his short little assistant next game.

 

[UncleLar]

You may have been right but I saw lots of seats with white shirts draped over them. It is really embarrassing. Almost as embarrassing as his record in the Big Ten. Maybe he can punch his short little assistant next game.

Yup there were a bunch, mostly in the east end. Basically, they expanded the student section to take up all the seats behind the east basket. Unfortunately, students stopped coming after the first game or two, so those seats go empty for every game.

 

[psugisher]

When the team is playing well enough to be in contention for the NCAA tournament, BJC fills up and it can be a really good, fun, environment. There are people that care about PSU bball. They're just so bad and it's so frustrating to watch the same thing over and over again that they don't go. They have B1G athletes. They don't have a B1G coach. Time is up for Chambers. Another horrendous start to the conference season. How long can this continue? The effort at Nebraska was solid despite the loss. Then yesterday's debacle vs Sparty on national tv. Climb with us..