More than just a single bad season during some crazy pandemic. Also, multiple years were the recruiting is not up to standards. Canning him right now is a bit premature.
Who’s the next PSU coach?
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with the way PSU operates, Franklin is going to get one more year unless he fails to win a single game this season.
They have never, ever been quick to fire a coach for losing (in any sport), usually waiting at least two or three years too long to pull the plug.
They have never, ever been quick to fire a coach for losing (in any sport), usually waiting at least two or three years too long to pull the plug.
Ding Ding Ding! Or Penn State leadership can smugly mock those SEC miscreants as too low brow and too unsophisticated to understand what it is like to run a world class university rather than a semi-professional football program...... all the while cashing those checks derived from the semi-professional football team.
The reactionary people are the Franklin haters on this board. Unless he gives up coaching because of his family situation he isn’t going anywhere.
Oh come now, you can’t be serious. He should have been canned after his first loss and replaced by any of the armchair experts on this board.
I can’t believe all these defenders crawling out of the woodwork for Franklin. It’s like the more he loses, the more people defend the guy. He’s 3-6 in his last nine games, and 16-9 now since the “elite” speech after the OSU loss. How’s that elite stuff working out James?
Pandemic or not, this is an absolutely historic, colossal failure of a season. And honestly, he should have been fired for the debacle at the end of the Indiana game alone.
Pandemic or not, this is an absolutely historic, colossal failure of a season. And honestly, he should have been fired for the debacle at the end of the Indiana game alone.
Before this season, which is not what any Penn Stater wants to see, James Franklin had won 71% of his games here. I started thinking about other coaches who that had success at their school and had a really down year for their program before roaring back.
Kirk Ferentz started his Iowa career winning 59% of his games (4-19 first two years) before having a 4-8 season in 2012. He had four ten win seasons in his first 13 seasons at Iowa. Iowa had 3 ten win seasons in school history prior to his arrival. After that 4-8 year Ferentz has won 67% of his games and was three points away from winning the Big Ten in 2015 and going to the playoffs.
Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was winning 71% of his games before going 4-8 in 2016. Since they ND has gone 41-6 and won 87% of it's games. They are likely heading to the CFP this year. Brian Kelly was on the hot seat five years ago and now has an 8-0 team that just beat Clemson.
Franklin and Kelly both won 71% of their games at their respectful schools before having bad years. Ferentz didn't have as much success at Iowa as the other two before down years, but it's very obvious he should not have been fired after that 4-8 season.
People seem to forget Penn State had 15 eleven win seasons in 46 years under Joe. They have 3 in 6 years under Franklin. Joe had 7 double digit win seasons in his 18 full seasons competing in the Big ten. Franklin has nearly half that total in 12 fewer years.
I get it, nobody wants to be 0-4. If there is ever to have a bad year, this was it. There has been tremendous change in the staff, roster, and obviously Covid has caused havoc on the program. I would rather take some humbling now than any other time (if we have to). My money is on PSU returning to some glory by this time next year.
Kirk Ferentz started his Iowa career winning 59% of his games (4-19 first two years) before having a 4-8 season in 2012. He had four ten win seasons in his first 13 seasons at Iowa. Iowa had 3 ten win seasons in school history prior to his arrival. After that 4-8 year Ferentz has won 67% of his games and was three points away from winning the Big Ten in 2015 and going to the playoffs.
Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was winning 71% of his games before going 4-8 in 2016. Since they ND has gone 41-6 and won 87% of it's games. They are likely heading to the CFP this year. Brian Kelly was on the hot seat five years ago and now has an 8-0 team that just beat Clemson.
Franklin and Kelly both won 71% of their games at their respectful schools before having bad years. Ferentz didn't have as much success at Iowa as the other two before down years, but it's very obvious he should not have been fired after that 4-8 season.
People seem to forget Penn State had 15 eleven win seasons in 46 years under Joe. They have 3 in 6 years under Franklin. Joe had 7 double digit win seasons in his 18 full seasons competing in the Big ten. Franklin has nearly half that total in 12 fewer years.
I get it, nobody wants to be 0-4. If there is ever to have a bad year, this was it. There has been tremendous change in the staff, roster, and obviously Covid has caused havoc on the program. I would rather take some humbling now than any other time (if we have to). My money is on PSU returning to some glory by this time next year.
The difference is Franklin is a raw raw cheerleader type coach who recruits and sits back as a CEO and lets his coaches do the coaching. He is not a coach's coach who is detailed oriented and is an X's and O's man. Franklin is not one of those coaches who has a unique system and it takes time to recruit and develop players to fit his system.
I've done many things I've been embarrassed about. This is not one of them.
Thing is Brian Kelly's recruiting didn't fall off a cliff after his 1 bad season - he pulled in the 15th ranked class in 2016 and the 10th ranked class in 2017 & 2018, while Franklin is on track for the 15th ranked class in 2020 and 38th ranked class for 2021. I will concede that 2022 is starting off well enough, but it's a long long time until signing day so you can't put much stock into the current ranking. That's my biggest worry with Franklin hanging on for another season or two - one bad year of recruiting is tough but 2 years in a row and now you're looking at needing one helluva coaching hire to both reverse the downward recruiting and simultaneously get back to that 2nd tear we've been accustomed to - see MSU for recent example. If Franklin had the 2021 class ranked between 5-15 there aren't as many upset folks because we could see that "help is on the way" - but he doesn't and there isn't. We've also become accustomed to losing 'croots and each year finishing the cycle limping across the finish line. These are not signs of a coach that will magically "turn it around" next year imo.
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I’d love ❤️ Lane Kiffin, but only if he also brings his father, Monty Kiffin. Who would bring Monty Python to fill out the coaching staff. And of course Hulk Hogan with his 24” pythons.
I also think he is leaving. It is just a gut feeling, watching him on the sidelines, and I have a feeling that something happened over the summer in SC. Plus his family not being with him. I have zero sources to back any of this up, it is just a feeling I have.
I’ve always been a Franklin supporter/defender. Ignore the wins and losses, and he hasn’t shown the ability to make the jump to the next level. That nay be fine, but you at least have to be good in the down years, not
you do realize that there were several seasons in which PSU only played 11 games including Bowls under Joe and many more where they only played 12 including Bowls.
You bring up some good points for sure but when it comes to quoting the 11 win seasons remember that Joe's teams played one less game. That added 12th game is usually against a cream puff.
Yeah, I cringe whenever Franklin references their win totals the last few years. Not only do we play more games these days, we typically play 3-4 cream puffs a year and Rutgers/Maryland have been very down, Indiana has not been much, we got Illinois one year, etc.
If the difference is Covid then we chalk it up to that and move on and get better.
If the difference is something deeper, kids not respecting the rules, etc....then it needs to be looked at.
What if the recruiting cycle is down because the players in the lockeroom are talking bad about things. What if it isn't the coaches fault and players like Rucci don't like the vibe they are getting from the current players.....
If the difference is something deeper, kids not respecting the rules, etc....then it needs to be looked at.
What if the recruiting cycle is down because the players in the lockeroom are talking bad about things. What if it isn't the coaches fault and players like Rucci don't like the vibe they are getting from the current players.....
Ed Orgeron. He'll clearly be looking for a job next year after a 2-3 start with embarrassing losses.
Someone shared this in another thread:
State College, PA - When Penn State Football is 0-4, You Are What Your Record Says You Are -
In the final 6 minutes of its loss to Nebraska, Penn State's offense got into the red zone twice. And it failed. Twice. Since Kirk Ciarrocca makes over $1 million and James Franklin over $6 million, I'd prefer to blame the plays that were called rather than the players not executing them.
www.statecollege.com
One nugget at the end - which you can take with a huge grain of salt as it's coming from Zach Smith - but still I think speaks to your 2nd point:
""When we would lose a recruit to Penn State," said Smith, who coached at Ohio State from 2012-18 before being fired by Urban Meyer and subsequently found guilty of violating a protection order, "it was because, 'Penn State is fun and they're cool and they're hip and the coaches are really cool.' And it was like, 'OK, at Ohio State we're not cool at all. We just coach you hard and develop you...Every now and then you have to be an asshole. They've had success. But in my opinion, that's why they can't get over the hump.""
Franklin has certainly shown the big personality and "hip" vibe since being at PSU. Huge players coach, cheerleader, and positive face of the program. That worked well when building and while the team was winning, but now that the wheels have fully come off the train the question is does Franklin have the personality to reign in the hip / fun nature and get back to the grindstone? I don't know the answer but thus far it doesn't look that way with the celebrations after tackles 7 yards down field.
It is very, very unlikely that CJF will resign at the end of this year.
The next PSU head coach is someone in his 20s who know one has heard of yet because he will not be PSU's head coach for another 15 years.
Someone shared this in another thread:
State College, PA - When Penn State Football is 0-4, You Are What Your Record Says You Are -
In the final 6 minutes of its loss to Nebraska, Penn State's offense got into the red zone twice. And it failed. Twice. Since Kirk Ciarrocca makes over $1 million and James Franklin over $6 million, I'd prefer to blame the plays that were called rather than the players not executing them.
One nugget at the end - which you can take with a huge grain of salt as it's coming from Zach Smith - but still I think speaks to your 2nd point:
""When we would lose a recruit to Penn State," said Smith, who coached at Ohio State from 2012-18 before being fired by Urban Meyer and subsequently found guilty of violating a protection order, "it was because, 'Penn State is fun and they're cool and they're hip and the coaches are really cool.' And it was like, 'OK, at Ohio State we're not cool at all. We just coach you hard and develop you...Every now and then you have to be an asshole. They've had success. But in my opinion, that's why they can't get over the hump.""
Franklin has certainly shown the big personality and "hip" vibe since being at PSU. Huge players coach, cheerleader, and positive face of the program. That worked well when building and while the team was winning, but now that the wheels have fully come off the train the question is does Franklin have the personality to reign in the hip / fun nature and get back to the grindstone? I don't know the answer but thus far it doesn't look that way with the celebrations after tackles 7 yards down field.
There is not doubt that accountability is lacking in the program. Part of the "family" mantra is that players/coaches don't seem to be taken to task about poor performance. Franklin mentions all of the teams positives over the years, each side of the ball, etc. Saban would have pry's foot on a banana peel and the other on a grave. I have said it before and I will say it again, I like Franklin and I do think he is a good coach. I think he is a great coach for a mid-tier program that is lacking confidence. He can get them motivated, he can get them to believe, and he can get them to achieve. But at the established programs, the ones vying for elitism, I am just not sure he has the personality required. The family mantra has caused him to lose a number of assistants, some for lateral jobs. He is losing on high level recruits that are the lifeblood of the program. Franklin had his chance when Saquon was in the backfield and JoeMo was the OC and we just could not quite get over the hump, now it is trending backwards in all facets and I just don't think it can really reach the high water mark of the Rose Bowl again. We did'nt quite capitalize then and now it is unlikely we get there again. I am not in favor of firing Franklin, I do think he has done well enough to deserve another year, but if you look at this team, this roster, these same problems on both sides of the ball, our QB room, our recruiting, does anyone think we will get back to the precipice of the mountain top with Franklin? I do not. Worth firing him and starting over? Honestly, I don't know, but this will be an 8-9 win team at best moving forward, is that good enough? Maybe
Someone shared this in another thread:
State College, PA - When Penn State Football is 0-4, You Are What Your Record Says You Are -
In the final 6 minutes of its loss to Nebraska, Penn State's offense got into the red zone twice. And it failed. Twice. Since Kirk Ciarrocca makes over $1 million and James Franklin over $6 million, I'd prefer to blame the plays that were called rather than the players not executing them.
One nugget at the end - which you can take with a huge grain of salt as it's coming from Zach Smith - but still I think speaks to your 2nd point:
""When we would lose a recruit to Penn State," said Smith, who coached at Ohio State from 2012-18 before being fired by Urban Meyer and subsequently found guilty of violating a protection order, "it was because, 'Penn State is fun and they're cool and they're hip and the coaches are really cool.' And it was like, 'OK, at Ohio State we're not cool at all. We just coach you hard and develop you...Every now and then you have to be an asshole. They've had success. But in my opinion, that's why they can't get over the hump.""
Franklin has certainly shown the big personality and "hip" vibe since being at PSU. Huge players coach, cheerleader, and positive face of the program. That worked well when building and while the team was winning, but now that the wheels have fully come off the train the question is does Franklin have the personality to reign in the hip / fun nature and get back to the grindstone? I don't know the answer but thus far it doesn't look that way with the celebrations after tackles 7 yards down field.
Yes, I posted that elsewhere......I've been told that the author is quite the dolt....but it still brings up some really good points....is JFF too much of a players coach.....is he too buddy buddy, does he try to be too hip, is he more family/big brother/mentor than he is a football coach.
I wonder aloud what the relationship was with Parsons. Was JFF a little easier on when it came to some of these other things. Did others see that? Is that really what is bothering Franklin? That someone that he did so much for turned around and opted out at the first sign of adversity?
Don't think it will be Eddie O. Read USA TODAY today. He may be in some deep shit.
Yeah I started another thread on that. My post above was tongue in cheek. Even without the baggage they're still 2-3 and he's still the same coach as he was last year when they won it all. What's changed? They lost a lot of great players. Sound familiar?
True, we have lost some great players, made some coaching changes. The present recruiting class is not what I have come to expect from Franklin. I believe 38th at time of this post. That needs to improve, along with the coaching. It helps if you love what you do, I just hope he still loves it. If not, time to move on. We will find out in 5 or 6 weeks.
247 has PSU 32nd right now for the 2021 class. We only have 14 commits, which it's why it's so low. If we add a few guys to that class it will likely go up a bit. The average player rating for PSU is 88.45. If you look at the average player rating by school, we are 19th. That's still lower than we are accustomed to the last few years, but I think that looks a whole lot better than 32nd. Now with everyone getting an extra year of eligibility (I think), our depth may not be hurt as bad if we have a smaller number of total kids in this class.
As for 22', it looks promising but a verbal really means nothing in today's world. Until there is a pen to paper this is all speculation. Granted, the speculation looks pretty good so far.
As for 22', it looks promising but a verbal really means nothing in today's world. Until there is a pen to paper this is all speculation. Granted, the speculation looks pretty good so far.
