Why are so many State College bars and restaurants going out of business?
- Thread starter aquapong
- Start date
A combination of over saturation and in some cases... poor management.
Greedy lessors. Lease up so they want to boost the monthly rent!
Greed by lessors. Lease is up so they want more rent! Lessee can only raise prices so far because of competition.
did State College reduce property taxes? Have insurance companies dropped their rates?
Combination of price wars for student business and already razor thin margins. If everything else isn't perfect, you're losing money.
Of course they have, you sounding like a greedy land barron yourself. read the papers why the Rathskeller closed.
I think in the Roy Rogers case it was possibly a case of speedy drivers headed south on N. Atherton continually trying to make a drive thru in the middle of the seating area.
In Roy Rogers case it was the family lightweight that took over the company after Hack and Kell Davenport retired. The entire company went down under his watch (all the Roy Rogers and Elby's/Big Boys in the Central Pa area and the Ports Pancake in Colonial Park) within a couple of years of his expert management..
I did some Liquor Board work for clients in Central Pa. It is a combination of things as cited above but one factor is the big chains (Champs, Olive Garden, Chili's, Outback, etc) buying up the liquor licenses and edging out the smaller, family owned places. Used to see small bars sell for about $50,000 to $75,000 (yes, in the 1980s and early 1990s) and a private individual could afford to take the risk. In Central Pa, it is my understanding that a liquor license alone now goes for about $250,000 and above. I imagine the State College area carries a prime price for liquor licenses so, rather than face the increasing hassle of running a business, why not sell for the big money. Plus, landlords overestimate their own situation and raise rents where it just isn't warranted. On the whole, I see the neighborhood bar going the way of the Dodo. The chains will dominate.
Sorry but the lease rates aren’t that bad anymore. Downtown properties are leasing at between $15-$18 per sq. ft. That is not outrages for today’s rates. There are a lot of places to eat. Not a lot of high end dinning options... but a lot of places too choose from compared to the way it used to be.
For all of the greedy lessors, it does seem like there are people willing to take up the new lease. There are other contributing factors as well, for example:
Chains are a factor, and we have seen Target, Federal Taphouse, and Hyatt recently come to the downtown. Three smaller chains are currently renovating and coming downtown: Hello Bistro, BRGR, and Snap Custom Pizza. Snap Pizza was previously in State College under their old name Peace A Pizza. Chains have always been a factor and many chains had to close up shop from downtown as well. Burger King, Pizza Hut, Hardee's, Arby's, Roy Roger's, Hooter's, Rite-Aid, G.C. Murphy's, Weis Markets, Tower Records, Boardwalk Fries, Baja Fresh, Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie & Fitch, Ben & Jerry's, Einstein Bagels, Nathan's, just to name a few.
Meanwhile, there are several small, locally owned business owners that are still around and some that continue to grow and adapt. McLanahan's is still going and is now trying beer sales. The SBS has expanded three times since I've arrived in 1990. Baby's is still chugging along. Little Szechuan has expanded. Champ's now has two locations. The Phyrst expanded/opened Local,Whiskey. While Irving's has gone from one to two shops downtown, they have expanded to the airport and opened Fiddlehead and Sauly Boys. They were also the ones that started The Green Bowl, which they sold several years ago. The owners of Pita Cabana seem to be constantly adding new ventures such as Underground Burger, Yallah Taco, and UR Pizza. They have also opened and closed Melt Shack and Tazzah as they are willing to try new things and adapt. The owner's of Kaarma opened Cafe Verve the other year. They also run the Rita's franchise in town, which they cleverly use as additional seating for Cafe Verve when Rita's is closed during the winter.
Things are always changing while we are yelling at the kids to get off of our lawns. Zola and California Burrito will be closing as that block is being razed and redeveloped. The entire block bordered by College, Hiester, Beaver, and Garner is being razed and redeveloped which will impact the Waffle Shop, Family Clothesline, Lion's Den, Deli, Saloon, etc.
- Herwig's: health issues of the owners, they just announced their first pop-up event for this month
- Darkhorse: owners retired
- The Diner: incredibly poor management for years as the owner focused his attention on his catering business
- Bank next to the Diner: moved to a smaller location a few blocks away - with all of the banks in town, I don't see how they all stay in business. Even the Gratz Bank, based out of tiny Gratz, PA, has opened up a branch in State College
- The Apple Tree: even though the evil, greedy mustard cartel offered what the owner publicly admitted was a fair lease, he said that he could not longer compete with the online marketplace. The owner will be trying to make a go at it online
- Indigo: temporarily closed as the owners are remodeling and rebranding as a different venue
Chains are a factor, and we have seen Target, Federal Taphouse, and Hyatt recently come to the downtown. Three smaller chains are currently renovating and coming downtown: Hello Bistro, BRGR, and Snap Custom Pizza. Snap Pizza was previously in State College under their old name Peace A Pizza. Chains have always been a factor and many chains had to close up shop from downtown as well. Burger King, Pizza Hut, Hardee's, Arby's, Roy Roger's, Hooter's, Rite-Aid, G.C. Murphy's, Weis Markets, Tower Records, Boardwalk Fries, Baja Fresh, Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie & Fitch, Ben & Jerry's, Einstein Bagels, Nathan's, just to name a few.
Meanwhile, there are several small, locally owned business owners that are still around and some that continue to grow and adapt. McLanahan's is still going and is now trying beer sales. The SBS has expanded three times since I've arrived in 1990. Baby's is still chugging along. Little Szechuan has expanded. Champ's now has two locations. The Phyrst expanded/opened Local,Whiskey. While Irving's has gone from one to two shops downtown, they have expanded to the airport and opened Fiddlehead and Sauly Boys. They were also the ones that started The Green Bowl, which they sold several years ago. The owners of Pita Cabana seem to be constantly adding new ventures such as Underground Burger, Yallah Taco, and UR Pizza. They have also opened and closed Melt Shack and Tazzah as they are willing to try new things and adapt. The owner's of Kaarma opened Cafe Verve the other year. They also run the Rita's franchise in town, which they cleverly use as additional seating for Cafe Verve when Rita's is closed during the winter.
Things are always changing while we are yelling at the kids to get off of our lawns. Zola and California Burrito will be closing as that block is being razed and redeveloped. The entire block bordered by College, Hiester, Beaver, and Garner is being razed and redeveloped which will impact the Waffle Shop, Family Clothesline, Lion's Den, Deli, Saloon, etc.
Bring back Donuts 2 Go in the HUB. I miss Chocolate Bismarcks.
And, BRING. BACK. CHICKEN. COSMOS.
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And, BRING. BACK. CHICKEN. COSMOS.
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Most of the Roy's are gone anyway. There are a few along the PA turnpike and I saw a couple in NJ but for the most part there just aren't many Roy's around anymore.
Not sure why Wendy's couldn't make it, that might be a management "issue", besides 5 Guys is better than any fast food burger joint.
JMO but I think some of it is management, look at all the pizza and sub places that have gone belly up. Those types of places should thrive in a college environment. And some of those Pizza and Sub joints were pretty good.
Razed for more apartments and below ground parking and no guarantee those places of business will return in the 1 level of shopping they are planning
Roy's was probably my favorite fast food place but when they merged with Hardee's in the '90's it was a death blow. Not sure how that time line jives with what you posted that was just my experience with them.
And there are still plenty of pizza and sub joints stepping in to replace those that go belly up. Pizza and sub shops coming and going is a perpetual cycle in State College. Yes, a college town is an ideal market for pizza and subs, but it is also very competitive because there are so many. I I had money to invest/risk/kiss good bye in a restaurant in State College, pizza and subs would be my last choice. Yes there are varying degrees of quality and varying personal preferences, but it is still just pizza and subs. I would much rather invest in something that is different. I think that's been one reason why a place like Baby's is still going, it's a bit different from anything else in town.
The forthcoming Hello Bistro & BRGR seems to be targeting the niche that Fiddlehead and Sauly Boy's had tapped into. Time will tell if there is enough of a market for all of them. Irving's has managed to survive despite numerous other similar bagel/coffee/sandwich ventures coming and going over the years.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
Bring back La Bamba. Who doesn’t want a burrito as big as your head?!?!Bring back Donuts 2 Go in the HUB. I miss Chocolate Bismarcks.
And, BRING. BACK. CHICKEN. COSMOS.
I graduated 30 years ago and they just now burned through all the cash I spent.
That was one of my favorite chains that ever came to State College. Food was fresh and good. If you asked for guacamole, it't didn't come from a bag, they merely cut open an avocado and scooped it out.
Too bad none of the pizza or sub shops are any good...nothing like more mediocre options for a slice.
Downtown SC offers glorified fast food options. The region has few interesting dining options in my opinion. Lots of talk about "farm to table" dining, etc. But with so many of the establishments owned by the same people, very little in the way of anything unique, and certainly not much diversity to choose from.
Piggybacking on this thread, I have a serious question for this upcoming season.
I'm a Berks guy that never attended UP, so my familiarity with SC is less than most and based on my experiences on GameDay as a Season Ticket Holder since 2005. Having said that I'm a creature of habit and that habit included going to The Skeller for Jack and Cokes, followed by Herwigs for some fresh Austrian eats. So, you can see my conundrum.
I like Phyrst but they aren't open early. So, where to eat and drink on GameDay and why? Thanks in advance!
I'm a Berks guy that never attended UP, so my familiarity with SC is less than most and based on my experiences on GameDay as a Season Ticket Holder since 2005. Having said that I'm a creature of habit and that habit included going to The Skeller for Jack and Cokes, followed by Herwigs for some fresh Austrian eats. So, you can see my conundrum.
I like Phyrst but they aren't open early. So, where to eat and drink on GameDay and why? Thanks in advance!
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The issues the make owning a bar in State College tricky are many. First, liquor licenses are very expensive. Second, the Margaux on booze is low, especially in SC. Third, the students are finicky - what is popular today likely won’t be in a year or two. So bars need to rebrand/refresh every so often. Fourth, mismanagement.
Is "Mr C's" still there?
$1 Long Island Ice Teas on Thursday night. Boy, could I dance at 2am.
Considering that State College is in the middle of rural Pennsylvania with an economy tied to a transient student population, it is never going to have the variety that you will find in a city. Also, with the student population dominating the demand, it is never going to be a great sit down restaurant town. However, I feel that the variety has improved considerably since I came to town in 1990. I remember the excitement when the first Taco Bell opened up, not because Taco Bell is good, but because at the time there was nothing remotely like it. There was a line out the door for Taco Bell. Think about that for a minute. When I first got here, there was no way something like a Herwig's, Tadashi, Penn Pide, My My Chicken, or even a Little Szechuan would have been able to fly in State College.
Davenports owned the Roy Rogers franchise rights in this area from Marriotts. Davenports always had a love/hate relationship with them. As I was told, Steve Davenport was convinced by someone that Hardee's was going to become the #1 franchise in America. Hardee's franchise fees were like 4 times greater than Marriot's so he ended up needing to sell 4-5 stores in order to pay them (along with the cost of start-up refurbshing etc) In the downsizing process, Davenports ended up losing a lot of good staff while retaining some of the less qualified cronys in high positions.
They’ve been “closed” for years.
Recently the owner decided to officially throw in the towel to make stickies. I will never eat those because of how dirty the Diner was. Zero faith in the owner’s ability to maintain a clean environment.
Just as long as the Tavern and the Corner Room keep going all else will work out.
The Panera Bread restaurant on Beaver always seems busy and this chain appears to have the staying power many others don’t. I credit their branding and positioning with unique menu items, subtle seasonings, and good price point. When traveling If there is a Panera at a rest stop, I generally will stop as my choice for lunch.
yes, the diner has been closed for all intensive purposes for quite some time. the owner has moved the grilled sticky bun baking and distribution to Boalsburg.
How is that Scott L. has done so well in SC? I believe he has at least 5 very successful restaurants that are doing quite well.
