No riding time, no hand fighting and having to take men down to score...how will Iowa ever score?
Will Iowa survive rule changes?
- Thread starter phelpsp
- Start date
yea but iowa won't get any points for stalling unless tnt can change the rule in their favor!!LOL
They need to learn how to shoot.... other than Lee did any of them master any takedown techniques??? they are good on top but that won't matter much moving on.
He of the double thigh-pry top stall.
Meh, kind of agree with his point.
Just make it Freestyle instead of whatever dumb hybrid they came up with here.
Warner was exactly right, stops your incentive to ride. Encourages activity making the sport more exciting. Sorry if the 2-1 victory is now in the past. Be a LEE not a WARNER.
To each his own. I agree that top wrestling is also a skill set. Some of the most exciting matches are clinging to a 1 point lead and countering every move the bottom man makes. 30 seconds of mayhem excites me. But go ahead and turn folk into free. Those multiple leg laces are just so awesome.😏
Know what's a really unique skill:
The threat that O'Toole is on bottom, the threat that Jaydin Eirman was on bottom. Guys that clearly worked on it, studied it, took pride in it. Have found an edge over others there. Guys that others have to really work as well to counter while on top.
Oh heck, who cares though when there are takedowns to be scored!
Well, in the interest of being charitable, I will say this - Warner is not wrong.
This is why wrestling has been losing viewers. Basically Warners stated stalling is an art… no Ztrain ride to the fall was a work of art. Every Big 10 team should make up shirts with that quote followed by why would any wrestler go to Iowa to learn to squeak out matches.
Well, this solves one problem for sure. Catch and release nets you 2 points instead of one = much faster Tech Falls.
How many times did we see RBY and Brooks in particular with a 20-8 major decision with nearly all of the opponent's points coming from a free release?
I actually agree with Warner, that riding is a skill that few can master with regularity, and it should be rewarded. Would Zain have developed the same game under these rules? Probably as he is a turner by nature.
I would have much preferred a rule where once a wrestler gains 90 seconds of riding time advantage, he basically has 10 seconds to start working a turn before the action is stopped and you get a restart.
How many times did we see RBY and Brooks in particular with a 20-8 major decision with nearly all of the opponent's points coming from a free release?
I actually agree with Warner, that riding is a skill that few can master with regularity, and it should be rewarded. Would Zain have developed the same game under these rules? Probably as he is a turner by nature.
I would have much preferred a rule where once a wrestler gains 90 seconds of riding time advantage, he basically has 10 seconds to start working a turn before the action is stopped and you get a restart.
I laughed out loud at this.
Not the particulars of whether he will dominate or not, but immediately thinking of what rule changes would have to be in effect to turn Nelson into a Cael-like Folkstyle God.
Control on top certainly shows dominance but it is also terribly boring to watch. I am definitely in favor of changing the rules to get more action. I loathe matches where top guy sits on an ankle for an entire period. As Askren said on one of the FLOs, you can't turn from there. There is no offensive move while trapping an ankle between your hamstring and calf muscle. Maybe use it to help with a mat return but anything else is stalling. All you have to do to see some rule changes are warranted is to watch Starocci at Worlds. That stuff was action packed but in folk style it's mostly controlled wins. Just my opinion. Don't know enough to foresee negative impacts of some of the rule changes but I think beginning to address it is super important.
Cael will have the whole team recalibrated pretty quickly. Giving up an escape will be no big deal, since the whole team will be lean mean takedown machines. Trade the ankle trap for a net 2 points? We can live with that. Half of our guys are already there anyway.
If they enact these rules, as true as I am sitting here today, HR will be bitching about how the new rules unfairly made it too easy for PSU to get a ton of tech falls. Go look at the stats, our for vs against takedown ratio is second to none.
If they enact these rules, as true as I am sitting here today, HR will be bitching about how the new rules unfairly made it too easy for PSU to get a ton of tech falls. Go look at the stats, our for vs against takedown ratio is second to none.
As with any rule set in any endeavor, the maxim "show me the incentive and I will predict the behavior" applies. Unless, of course, you are wedded to the "Iowa Style".
Will it be easier to reach 170 points 😜. Maybe an “*” would be appropriate 😄
This is not true -- Zahid worked near-side cradles from the trapped ankle ride. And he was very good at it, just ask Hoffman.
Though I agree, it is not often used to create scoring opportunities.
Carter is doomed.
You're right. Wasn't hard to find. Thanks for the heads up. I was deferring to Askren's comments and what I have seen. I imagine most of you veteran posters are a wealth of knowledge and appreciate the insight. Kinda reminds me of the Dumb and Dumber quote though. "So you're telling me there's a chance?!"
I'm kind of w/ Warner. I'm OK w/ rule tweaks in a general sense--but I think we need to decide if we want to have Folkstyle, with its emphasis on control (and yes, riding) or not. If not, then just make the switch to Freestyle and be done w/ it--but if we collectively think Folkstyle is "precious" to us, as a cultural touchstone, and the reason why generally, our wrestlers have such good conditioning and toughness, then we should not endeavor to dilute that too much, IMO, or it will go away all by its own as the worst of both.
I'm a weirdo, because I love both styles of wrestling, and would like to keep both, personally.
I'm still processing these rule changes--I've never really agreed w/ the need to go to 3 point TDs--but I have considered passivity-style auto-stall calls as a likely good move, and I might even be OK w/ a version of a step-out rule. But I really, really doubt that mat wrestling is why the ESPN ratings suddenly dipped--that seems like a pretty poor reactionary anlaysis to me.
I'm a weirdo, because I love both styles of wrestling, and would like to keep both, personally.
I'm still processing these rule changes--I've never really agreed w/ the need to go to 3 point TDs--but I have considered passivity-style auto-stall calls as a likely good move, and I might even be OK w/ a version of a step-out rule. But I really, really doubt that mat wrestling is why the ESPN ratings suddenly dipped--that seems like a pretty poor reactionary anlaysis to me.
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" The refs let PSU just keep attacking legs and refuse to enforce stalling on them even though our guy is doing all of the work hand fighting" HR
These changes are revealing.
After recently learning that our fan base is obsessed with TDs, we now receive validation from the committee.
After recently learning that our fan base is obsessed with TDs, we now receive validation from the committee.
Or running the guy out of bounds and restarting every 7 seconds
I enjoyed watching AB ride Amine in the finals for 4 mins.
One of the great things about our sport is that we are not welded to tradition. Rules have been tweaked every other year for so long that we expect improvements. By and large, we grasp the underlying need. If baseball made changes of this magnitude and frequency fans would ask congress to intervene. I’m glad we don’t hold individual and team records so close that there is no room for making the sport better.
Agreed.
More likely the dip was 100% from a drop in Iowa Fandom viewership due to:
- PSU's dominance including early clinching of the championship and having 5 finalists;
- Spencer getting pinned and not wrestling back when his wrestling for his 4th while overcoming adversity was a major storyline; and,
- Woods losing to Alirez in the 141 finals fairly early in the telecast, causing TVs to be turned off and channels changed since Iowa had no other finalists.
well if iowa wants to survive NCAA will have to make a whole new set of rules just for them!iowa will get points for stalling,laying flat on the mat extra a point for not moving and running out of bounds!they should win every match!
Maybe. The rules committee is still a committee, maybe they couldn't get consensus on that.
I'm not sure about the Iowa effect.
Agree that your first point probably hurt a bit.
But #'s 2 and 3, not so much. SLee's loss maybe only hurt the finals session a little. And Woods/Allirez was the second to last bout.
I dont like the 3 pt TD. How about after a TD an escape can be earned during live action. If there is an OOB stoppage the top man can grant a free release. It'll force the bottom man to stay in bounds to fight for an escape. Like always tho the refs need to call the force out stalling. Others have also suggested riding time only accruing after a TD.
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