willie takes shot at cael

[js8793]

joking aside because i doubt willie was thinking of cael, but the riley/kelly moves are nearly identical to cael's shocking move to happy valley. two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations and took their destiny in their own hands to move to a better job.

riley's case in particular is similar because oklahoma has been a much better program over the last 15 years than usc, much like isu had been better than psu. but riley see's the rich recruiting grounds of southern cal, huge institutional support and infrastructure, and an easier path to consistent playoff appearances (compared to lsu) and sees a place he can build a powerhouse.

editing to make clear that i think this is cool and don't think cael did isu dirty in any way that i'm aware of. i think it's an interesting conversation because i suspect many like willie might find their initial reactions to such moves negative without realizing that they're nearly identical to cael's and that might be a good point of introspection and conversation around the quickly shifting landscape of college sports.

 

[Dogwelder]

How much is somebody paying you for that Clickbait headline?

 

[RoarLions1]

Weak and totally misleading. Frankly, this should be deleted.

 

[Dogwelder]

Willie’s tweet is so weird. People change jobs for so many reasons. How could he hope to or expect to know enough to “understand”?

How would a random outsider know enough to understand Willie’s leaving Flo?

[previous paragraph is a perfect set up for jokes. E.g., a single photo of Pile ]

 

[ss7]

Willie’s tweet is so weird. People change jobs for so many reasons. How could he hope to or expect to know enough to “understand”?

How would a random outsider know enough to understand Willie’s leaving Flo?

Yeah, my reaction to Willie's tweet is the same as my reaction to all the people who think Cael "abandoned" ISU or is guilty of some other, similar transgression...

There is no way any of us possibly know the details of what, how, or why it happened.

 

[tikk10]

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joking aside because i doubt willie was thinking of cael, but the riley/kelly moves are nearly identical to cael's shocking move to happy valley. two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations and took their destiny in their own hands to move to a better job.

riley's case in particular is similar because oklahoma has been a much better program over the last 15 years than usc, much like isu had been better than psu. but riley see's the rich recruiting grounds of southern cal, huge institutional support and infrastructure, and an easier path to consistent playoff appearances (compared to lsu) and sees a place he can build a powerhouse.

The "lost confidence" take is so overdue for retirement. The underlying assumption that ISU was so much loftier wrestling perch than PSU would be more convincing if anyone who had succeeded Cael at ISU had returned the program to prominence. A program is more than a coach.

 

[js8793]

Weak and totally misleading. Frankly, this should be deleted.

all in good fun. i'm on cael's side. no reason why him leaving isu was a bad thing and it's clearly worked out.

i think it's an interesting topic because it ties in to the new landscape of college sports with the transfer portal. athletes now have the same freedom to compete where they want as coaches do.

 

[js8793]

How much is somebody paying you for that Clickbait headline?

not enough!

 

[js8793]

The "lost confidence" take is so overdue for retirement. The underlying assumption that ISU was so much loftier wrestling perch than PSU would be more convincing if anyone who had succeeded Cael at ISU had returned the program to prominence. A program is more than a coach.

i'm not sure i quite understand your point. how does isu's status impact "lost confidence" (and i didn't spend much time contemplating my language here so i don't know if confidence is the right word).

it seems to me that despite a lot of success under gibbons, douglas, and cael, cael felt that he could have more success at psu even though they hadn't had as much success historically.

it's less a lack of confidence in himself than his situation. he clearly believed in his own ability to reach the top, otherwise why bother to move at all? iowa wrestling being nearly hegemonic in state made recruiting difficult. not only getting away from that, but also relocating to the best talent hotbed in the country was obviously attractive. the irony is that after winning that first string of titles with a lot of PA talent, he then had the cache to dominate national recruiting and his recent teams are much less PA centric.

if we circle back to the football situation, look at brian kelly. he's won everywhere he's been, but he's never reached the top. he clearly is a good coach and believes in that ability. but every school he's been at has a limiting factor with recruiting. cincinatti wasn't a power 5 school. notre dame has difficult admission standards. he now has to deal with neither of those at lsu. when cael left iowa state, he no longer had to deal with the hawkeye mystique/hegemony in state that was frankly out of his control. can one man overcome 40 years of history? dresser is learning the same difficult lesson right now.

 

[Lion8286]

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joking aside because i doubt willie was thinking of cael, but the riley/kelly moves are nearly identical to cael's shocking move to happy valley. two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations and took their destiny in their own hands to move to a better job.

riley's case in particular is similar because oklahoma has been a much better program over the last 15 years than usc, much like isu had been better than psu. but riley see's the rich recruiting grounds of southern cal, huge institutional support and infrastructure, and an easier path to consistent playoff appearances (compared to lsu) and sees a place he can build a powerhouse.

Weaker than usual, js8793. This is WildTurk level weak.

 

[slushhead]

I have been under a rock the past 12 years. Could someone please give me a detailed rundown of Cael’s hypothetical reasons for taking the PSU job? And then tell me why it is still important to remember to this day?

Signed,
No One

 

[NittanyChris]

Ah js up to his old tricks. Subtly taking shots at PSU/Cael under the guise of stimulating discussion. Lame, weak and transparent as previous responses also recognize.

 

[js8793]

Ah js up to his old tricks. Subtly taking shots at PSU/Cael under the guise of stimulating discussion. Lame, weak and transparent as previous responses also recognize.

even when i support cael apparently i'm trying to undermine him. learn something new every day. will keep this in mind for future posting.

 

[Media Fan]

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joking aside because i doubt willie was thinking of cael, but the riley/kelly moves are nearly identical to cael's shocking move to happy valley. two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations and took their destiny in their own hands to move to a better job.

riley's case in particular is similar because oklahoma has been a much better program over the last 15 years than usc, much like isu had been better than psu. but riley see's the rich recruiting grounds of southern cal, huge institutional support and infrastructure, and an easier path to consistent playoff appearances (compared to lsu) and sees a place he can build a powerhouse.

editing to make clear that i think this is cool and don't think cael did isu dirty in any way that i'm aware of. i think it's an interesting conversation because i suspect many like willie might find their initial reactions to such moves negative without realizing that they're nearly identical to cael's and that might be a good point of introspection and conversation around the quickly shifting landscape of college sports.

I believe Cael came to PSU to take advantage of the fertile recruiting territory, the paycheck that our former trustee arranged for him, and to win championships.
I don’t think Willie was taking any shots at our coach.
Although I would like to believe college is different, I wouldn’t blame anyone who takes what they consider to be a better job.

 

[El-Jefe]

Perhaps @smalls103 has something to add to this, above/beyond his follow-on tweet that debunks the thread headline.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Perhaps @smalls103 has something to add to this, above/beyond his follow-on tweet that debunks the thread headline.

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I like the way Willie corrects people with facts in a calm and gentle manner

 

[Lion8286]

I like the way Willie corrects people with facts in a calm and gentle manner

Me too.

 

[jack66]

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joking aside because i doubt willie was thinking of cael, but the riley/kelly moves are nearly identical to cael's shocking move to happy valley. two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations and took their destiny in their own hands to move to a better job.

riley's case in particular is similar because oklahoma has been a much better program over the last 15 years than usc, much like isu had been better than psu. but riley see's the rich recruiting grounds of southern cal, huge institutional support and infrastructure, and an easier path to consistent playoff appearances (compared to lsu) and sees a place he can build a powerhouse.

editing to make clear that i think this is cool and don't think cael did isu dirty in any way that i'm aware of. i think it's an interesting conversation because i suspect many like willie might find their initial reactions to such moves negative without realizing that they're nearly identical to cael's and that might be a good point of introspection and conversation around the quickly shifting landscape of college sports.

Eventually, you'll have passive-aggressive down perfectly.

 

[crablegs1]

Perhaps @smalls103 has something to add to this, above/beyond his follow-on tweet that debunks the thread headline.

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While this is true now, it wasn’t before Cael got there. To act like this was obvious at the time is just a crazy level of hindsight. You’d think that the clearly best college wrestling job would have somehow been able to win maybe 1 title between 1954 and 2010.

Clearly PSU had the potential to be a great wrestling school, but the reason it’s the best is because of Cael.

 

[El-Jefe]

I like the way Willie corrects people with facts in a calm and gentle manner

Why use a flyswatter when you have a sledgehammer?

 

[El-Jefe]

While this is true now, it wasn’t before Cael got there. To act like this was obvious at the time is just a crazy level of hindsight. You’d think that the clearly best college wrestling job would have somehow been able to win maybe 1 title between 1954 and 2010.

Clearly PSU had the potential to be a great wrestling school, but the reason it’s the best is because of Cael.

The conclusion wasn't true then, but Wille's points 1 and 2 both were. All it took was somebody who shared Rich Lorenzo's vision and had the ability to execute it, and a school administration willing to go get that person.

 

[Folkstylefan]

Most adults would want to leave a Job for a better job that has greater chances of being the best job in that field.

 

[Folkstylefan]

Cael wasn’t even the first to do it. Look at the head coaches for tosu, Iowa and I’m sure many more

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Perhaps @smalls103 has something to add to this, above/beyond his follow-on tweet that debunks the thread headline.

View embedded media

Next thread title will be:

“Willie takes shot at ISU”

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I have been under a rock the past 12 years. Could someone please give me a detailed rundown of Cael’s hypothetical reasons for taking the PSU job? And then tell me why it is still important to remember to this day?

Signed,
No One

Jeez I knew you took some time off here, but I didnt realize it was 12 years!

 

[nitlion6]

Riley and Kelly accepted better jobs. Not really a huge mystery, nor anything anybody with a brain would find feigned fault with.

 

[Arm spin]

Ummm didn’t Willie change jobs not to long ago and change his residence across the country and a whole pile of drama followed. He’s questioning the fabric of a job change or decision ?

 

[creamery freak]

Most adults would want to leave a Job for a better job that has greater chances of being the best job in that field.

I've told this story before but when Cael was initially hired the Wmspt Area NL booster club had him as a guest speaker the very next month. Someone asked Cael why he left ISU for PSU? Cael smiled and pulled out his wallet and it generated a good laugh. Cael went on to say that PA high school wrestling was coached at a very high level here. He also said the recruiting ground was as fertile in PA as any state in the country. He closed by saying he came to PSU to win National Championships.

 

[crablegs1]

The conclusion wasn't true then, but Wille's points 1 and 2 both were. All it took was somebody who shared Rich Lorenzo's vision and had the ability to execute it, and a school administration willing to go get that person.

You definitely won’t find me arguing points 1 or 2.

Definitely a lot of pieces came together at the right time to make PSU what it now is. But it was a long way from being the “best job in wrestling” before Cael took over.

 

[NoVa Lion]

You definitely won’t find me arguing points 1 or 2.

Definitely a lot of pieces came together at the right time to make PSU what it now is. But it was a long way from being the “best job in wrestling” before Cael took over.

Agree based on past results, but IMHO and Cael agrees it was the job with the most potential.

 

[Dogwelder]

… He closed by saying he came to PSU to win National Championships.

I remember Cael’s exact words:

“I was teaching a six-year-old boy the elevator move, and he told me in a pipsqueak voice, ‘you go to Penn State, you win national titles. That’s what you do!’ And that’s why I’m here.”

 

[Dogwelder]

Weak and totally misleading. …

Yup. For the record, the thread title is:

willie takes shot at cael​

 

[tullfan68]

Cael to PSU for one reason to win titles and he knew the best talent was on the east coast esp PA but I doubt he knew he was gonna get great kids from all over thats what Caels name does!!

 

[dmm53]

Tuesday: slow wrestling news day, I guess. In other non-wrestling news, El Chapo's wife was sentenced today to 3 years in a US prison. I have a few friends who teach (as University profs) in jails. Wonder if one can start up a wrestling team in the Big House. I could picture a few bad-ass teams: e.g., Attica vs. Rykers. Maybe they would need coaches there as well.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

This thread

 

[js8793]

Perhaps @smalls103 has something to add to this, above/beyond his follow-on tweet that debunks the thread headline.

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this is just cognitive dissonance. unfortunately, his response does nothing to disprove the point. USC and LSU are both better jobs than OU and ND for the same reasons he pointed out why PSU was better than ISU. Oklahoma and Indiana do not have elite instate talent. Oklahoma has to compete with the SEC to recruit Texas and Riley was already recruiting CA heavily to make up for that, so now he gets a homefield advantage and the opportunity to dominate one of the most talent rich states in the country. Kelly not only had to deal with a regional disadvantage in Indiana, but also had a much smaller pool to pull from due to admissions standards. Now he gets to go to a program in a talent rich state, next door to Texas as well, with no admission standards.

he can either retract the original tweet because it's obvious and rational why a coach would leave for those programs or admit his reaction also applies to Cael. his second tweet is right and his first tweet is wrong.

 

[nerfstate]

So let me get this straight. The debate here is whether Cael is successful because he recruited a top p4p program, or he developed one? And the Iowa fan everyone is debating with says developed? Are we jumping the shark here?

 

[crablegs1]

So let me get this straight. The debate here is whether Cael is successful because he recruited a top p4p program, or he developed one? And the Iowa fan says developed? Are we jumping the shark here?

Lol. Quite the turn of events.

 

[js8793]

So let me get this straight. The debate here is whether Cael is successful because he recruited a top p4p program, or he developed one? And the Iowa fan everyone is debating with says developed? Are we jumping the shark here?

strange things happen when you argue against a person instead of an argument.

i don't think psu was inherently the best job in wrestling. i think cael looked at it and had the foresight to see that it could be under the right leadership. new jersey consistently produces some of the top talent. is rutgers inherently a top 5 job? no, because it takes a special coach to lock down those borders and develop those recruits. as crablegs pointed out, if it was truly inherently the best job in wrestling, you guys would have won titles before cael. it took an all-time great coach to develop it to that point.

now that he's done what he's done here, i think cael could do it almost anywhere, including iowa state. he doesn't even rely on pa talent anymore. in short, his success here has way more to do with his own talent than the job.

 

[82bordeaux]

this is just cognitive dissonance.