willie takes shot at cael
- Thread starter js8793
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took a shot at cael. lol. eye roll.
first things first - i'm speaking in generalities. this is not just about ND/LSU/OU/USC and Riley and Kelly. it's about head coaches in sports in general. Urban Meyer from FL to tOSU, etc.
and yes, there can be extenuating circumstances (like Meyer going to be sanctioned/investigated). or maybe lincoln riley had a beef w/ the admin...idk. (which, yes, is why i changed jobs (which is totally effing beyond the point that you have to be missing a chromosome to connect the two.)
what i do know is that a lot of the time it seems like pure money grab.
and no, that's not the way i view cael's move. Penn State is a monster job and to say 'wElL thEY NeVER wON beFORe thaT' is asinine. 1) they were always good 2) it's in the best wrestling state and it's not close. if you didn't know it was a sleeping giant, you're a moron. (btw, Pitt is a better job than 99% of DI wrestlling programs).
And Cael proved all that. You guys are talking out both sides of your mouths? Is PSU a good job or is Cael so good he made PSU work? Wait a sec, HR has been spewing for 10 years that Cael isn't a great coach, he just gets more P4P's.
Make up your minds.
i'll end with this, though i know it won't resonate with you all - college football isn't college wrestling. and - to those relating it to a computer programer or a plumber, or a wrestling journalist that changes jobs - it ain't the same either.
Brian Kelly isn't going to A) win more at LSU at Notre Dame B) have a better chance at winning there C) make life changing money at LSU more than ND
it makes me laugh when some people try to justify Riley's decision as 'smart because it's easier to win in the Pac 12 opposed to the SEC, where OU is going' and then also say Kelly has a better shot to win at LSU (WHICH IS IN THE SEC!)
first things first - i'm speaking in generalities. this is not just about ND/LSU/OU/USC and Riley and Kelly. it's about head coaches in sports in general. Urban Meyer from FL to tOSU, etc.
and yes, there can be extenuating circumstances (like Meyer going to be sanctioned/investigated). or maybe lincoln riley had a beef w/ the admin...idk. (which, yes, is why i changed jobs (which is totally effing beyond the point that you have to be missing a chromosome to connect the two.)
what i do know is that a lot of the time it seems like pure money grab.
and no, that's not the way i view cael's move. Penn State is a monster job and to say 'wElL thEY NeVER wON beFORe thaT' is asinine. 1) they were always good 2) it's in the best wrestling state and it's not close. if you didn't know it was a sleeping giant, you're a moron. (btw, Pitt is a better job than 99% of DI wrestlling programs).
And Cael proved all that. You guys are talking out both sides of your mouths? Is PSU a good job or is Cael so good he made PSU work? Wait a sec, HR has been spewing for 10 years that Cael isn't a great coach, he just gets more P4P's.
Make up your minds.
i'll end with this, though i know it won't resonate with you all - college football isn't college wrestling. and - to those relating it to a computer programer or a plumber, or a wrestling journalist that changes jobs - it ain't the same either.
Brian Kelly isn't going to A) win more at LSU at Notre Dame B) have a better chance at winning there C) make life changing money at LSU more than ND
it makes me laugh when some people try to justify Riley's decision as 'smart because it's easier to win in the Pac 12 opposed to the SEC, where OU is going' and then also say Kelly has a better shot to win at LSU (WHICH IS IN THE SEC!)
I’m content to believe that Cael has a knack for identifying potential. Sometimes, so does everyone else (Aaron), sometimes he’s more lonely (usually with Willie—with it: C*, Penn State). But his batting average is pretty, pretty good.
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"Penn State is a monster job"
Yeah, so are USC and LSU. That's the point. Riley and Kelly are moving to programs they think give them a better chance to win. But neither will unless they're as good as they think they are. Cael saw the sleeping giant and was good enough to make it happen. And it's cheap to lump all HR together. Cael is the best coach in the country and I've always said so.
Not wrestling related, but some logical errors in your last paragraph. USC can be a better job for Riley because it's not in the SEC like OU will be and LSU can still give Kelly a much better shot than ND because he doesn't have to deal with the recruiting limitations even though they're in the SEC. I also don't think avoiding the SEC is the sole reason he's going there. It's a sleeping giant (like PSU was) because southern California is a recruiting goldmine.
And obviously money plays a huge part, but guess what: Cael got a monster contract too. One of the posters on this thread literally told a story about Cael joking about this by pulling out his wallet when somebody asked why he took the job. You keep trying to point out reasons why Cael coming to PSU is somehow different, but every example you use is an exact parallel.
Iowa State to PSU is a giant upgrade than either move by the football coaches. OU and ND literally have won multiple national titles.
additionally, as stated before, i'm not necessarily talking about just these two moves, but an overall trend. Urban went Florida to tOSU, Saban went LSU to Bama. Roy Williams went Kansas to UNC. etc.
additionally, as stated before, i'm not necessarily talking about just these two moves, but an overall trend. Urban went Florida to tOSU, Saban went LSU to Bama. Roy Williams went Kansas to UNC. etc.
I don't know.
I think there are a lot of parallels between ND football and ISU wrestling. Key among them...each of their most recent national titles was more than 30 years ago (1988 for ND football, 1987 for ISU wrestling).
Umm, ISU also has also “literally” won multiple national titles.
That’s said, I don’t disagree that PSU is a better job than ISU, but that’s not really a great comparison. As @ss7 points out above, ISU wrestling is pretty similar to ND football in regards to winning tradition.
OU hasn't won a title since 2000 and ND hasn't won a title since 1988. The landscape changes. Indiana won the 1932 team title in wrestling. Is that a school you can win a championship at right now?
And even your examples don't make sense. Urban "retired" to avoid the impending scandal implosion at UF, took a year off, and then went to tOSU after the dust cleared. Saban didn't go from LSU to Bama. He went to the NFL for 2 seasons, decided he didn't like it, and went back to college. Roy Williams is from NC, played (j.v.) for UNC, coached there as an assistant, was the guy who recruited Jordan, etc... It was his dream job. Of course he took it.
you make some good points. i'm not gonna go round and round with you. if you wanna think the comparisons are stupid or invalid, that's fine. i just think psu is light years ahead of isu and always has been (even when they (isu) outperformed them) and ND/OU are pretty comparable to LSU/USC.
and very clearly, it was not a shot at cael (or brands, or dresser, or rob koll or anyone in wrestling that ever changed a job)
and very clearly, it was not a shot at cael (or brands, or dresser, or rob koll or anyone in wrestling that ever changed a job)
that part was just a joke. i knew you didn't have cael in mind at all.
Amateur psychologists are worth what they are paid. Zilch! Your call for analysis is superfluous! I’d recommend you pay a visit to Alice to get your rocks off.
"two intense competitors who lost confidence in their ability to win in their current situations"
Where the f#@& does that assessment come from?
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Regarding Kelly -- wish I could find the article again but it made some really good points:
1. Kelly grew tired of Notre Dame's academic requirements. That won't be an issue at LSU, to put it mildly.
Related: apparently ND admin resisted even redshirting.
2. Academics aside, LSU is a much easier recruiting job.. ND has no local base. Louisiana is a talent-rich state with only one P5 school. Everybody grows up a rabid LSU fan (as in full-on Cujo rabid), and the kids want to play there badly.
Since he's already an experienced national recruiter, adding out-of-state kids isn't a hurdle ... and look, there's the Texas gold mine next door.
3. Many coaches believe anybody can win a national title there, because Miles and Orgeron did -- i.e., LSU won despite those 2 coaches, not because of them.
Anybody doubt Kelly thinks he's a better coach than those two?
4. While ND has made the playoffs, the 2nd SEC team is more likely to.
So essentially he got more money for an easier job in better weather. Downside is supposedly he thinks Sprite is too spicy.
1. Kelly grew tired of Notre Dame's academic requirements. That won't be an issue at LSU, to put it mildly.
Related: apparently ND admin resisted even redshirting.
2. Academics aside, LSU is a much easier recruiting job.. ND has no local base. Louisiana is a talent-rich state with only one P5 school. Everybody grows up a rabid LSU fan (as in full-on Cujo rabid), and the kids want to play there badly.
Since he's already an experienced national recruiter, adding out-of-state kids isn't a hurdle ... and look, there's the Texas gold mine next door.
3. Many coaches believe anybody can win a national title there, because Miles and Orgeron did -- i.e., LSU won despite those 2 coaches, not because of them.
Anybody doubt Kelly thinks he's a better coach than those two?
4. While ND has made the playoffs, the 2nd SEC team is more likely to.
So essentially he got more money for an easier job in better weather. Downside is supposedly he thinks Sprite is too spicy.
Regarding Riley -- forget all the nonsense about whatever schools are the top jobs in the country.
Dabo Swinney has the best job in the country. All the benefits of Saban with none of the competition.
USC should be right there too. Pac 12 has been mediocre for years, and Los Angeles is a massive talent pool -- Riley should know, as he did a better job recruiting California than Helton.
He'd probably still win a lot at Oklahoma, but the Pac 12 isn't the SEC West. Playoffs much easier at the new job.
Dabo Swinney has the best job in the country. All the benefits of Saban with none of the competition.
USC should be right there too. Pac 12 has been mediocre for years, and Los Angeles is a massive talent pool -- Riley should know, as he did a better job recruiting California than Helton.
He'd probably still win a lot at Oklahoma, but the Pac 12 isn't the SEC West. Playoffs much easier at the new job.
lol if I cared about english I would have been a teacher!!
There's more talent in 3 private high schools every year in the LA area than there is in the entire state of Oklahoma, and there's as much high end talent in the LA area as there is anywhere in the country (including south Florida). Like you say, throw in a weak conference.
No brainer move for almost any coach.
Don’t give js any ideas.donboy6499 takes shot at riley. calls him no-brained.
Feels like Hard Copy anymore round here.
AHH NO!!!! Kelly and Riley saw the opportunity to create GENERATIONAL WEALTH for their families and took it!!! Those contracts are sick!! YOU ARE PAYING A COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACH $100M PLUS JUICY PERKS!!!! Are you F*CKIN kidding me!!! This getting way out of hand!! College was supposed to be about GETTING AN EDUCATION and you are paying FOOTBALL COACH more a year than the entire Engineering or Business Department faculties!!!! We need IMMEDIATE priority realignment!
