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With two healthy Altons would Penn State have been favored for another

creamery freak

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2014
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National Championship? I thought it would have been a stretch without Zain and Nico to repeat but if both Andrew and Dylan were healthy and in our lineup this year I think it could have been a 5 peat. Looking back on our dual season I believe we would have beaten Minnesota, Iowa, and Oky State. Not sure about the OSU match as to how we fared at 149/157? Just want to say thank you to Andrew and Dylan for coming to PSU to wrestle and helping us win 4 National Championships! I was at the Senior day match with Rider and really felt for the Altons when they were introduced, realizing their talent level but the unfortunate injuries that kept them both out of the lineup during their careers. Best of luck with your future guys!
 
I understand what they are going through and wouldn't wish that on anyone. My son went to college on a soccer scholarship and got injured his freshman year during practice. He was already logging time with the first team and it seemed like everything was falling in place for a great 4 years, then a freak injury. It's tough to swallow realizing how hard the kids work to get to that level and how much time the parents put-in supporting them. I truly hate that happened to them and that they didn't get to pursue the dreams they probably had ever since they were little boys. Best of luck to them.
 
Can you imagine this team if the Alton's were healthy for the past 4 years. PSU won 4 NC in a row basically without them. If they had them, they would have clinched all 4 titles before tge finals even started. Even with the Alton's this year, I think Nico and Zain still would have been needed. We saw glimpses of how dominate they could be when healthy. They had Taylor and Ruth ability and I blieve they would have hit the same levels if healthy. Injuries not only kept them from matches, but look at all the room practice time they missed.
 
Don't forget, we were pretty well represented at 149, Beitz won against Minny and pinned Kindig, so there were not a lot of extra points available to AA in those meets. Maybe Andrew could have made the difference against Iowa, but Sorenson is no slouch. A healthy Dylan I suppose could have won against Iowa and Ok St, Minny could have gone either way.

We can speculate all day on what could have been, I'm just excited to see what this team of underdogs can do at tourney time.
 
Couple thoughts

1. Don't give up on 5 just yet.
2. I don't think Dylan has officially been ruled out, unless if I missed it?
3. Injuries happen in the sport unfortunately. Both of them just got hit hard. The talent is obvious...evidenced by their respective freshman years. This is a rough sport and it makes you appreciate just how much the guys who finish have gone through to get to the end. Can't take any match for granted.
4. I would hope this finally puts to rest the notion that Penn State has been lucky with injuries, what have you (despite the fact that we've had a lot of guys hurt over the past, i.e. Ruth, Wade, etc). One of the few (wrong) bashes that was floating around with the Cael can't coach garbage.

These guys put their all into Penn State and were integral to winning the past 4 years.
 
Don't give up on 5 just yet...???

Are you kidding? This team has no national championship contenders at any weight, and could barely stay on the same mat with Ohio State, Minnesota, Oklahoma State, Iowa....? What are you drinking?

This post was edited on 2/27 10:04 AM by BrucePa
 
I wouldn't count out Gulibon and McIntosh as possible contenders, and Brown has a good a chance as any to make the finals.
 
Re: Don't give up on 5 just yet...???

I think the bigger question is what are you drinking!

I don't think they will be in the hunt this year but to say we have no national championship contenders is foolish.

Other than tOSU we was very competitive in all those matches you listed.
 
Re: Don't give up on 5 just yet...???

Gullibon is ranked 3rd in the country and lost to the top-ranked wrestler on a last-second takedown. Brown is a two-time AA and one-time finalist who is ranked 2nd and lost to the top-ranked wrestler by a point. Neither is a favorite to win. But what do you have to be drinking to consider them non-contenders?

And please tell us what you think "could barely stay on the same mat" means.
This post was edited on 2/27 10:25 AM by CholleyVandine
 
Bruce......have you been drinking again this morning?? The only team that dominated us was tOSU if ya call that domination. We very easily could of beat the Goofers, the Cowgirls and the Brands brothers, IMO. Id be very happy with a top 5 finish at nationals, considering all the redshirts we have on the sideline, but dont say we dont have a CHANCE at 5.
 
Brown and McIntosh could very easily be in the finals, and they both could win it. Cox did not impress me against Burak from Iowa, and McIntosh handled Burak pretty good, which means nothing, i know. Conaway, Guilibon, Beitz, Hammond (long shot) McCutheon (long shot) Lawson or Gingrich finish on the podium, does that give us a chance, saying Brown and McIntosh finish 2nd??
 
Re: Don't give up on 5 just yet...???

The thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is the parity we see across all weights. It's going to be very hard for any one team to garner more than one individual NC.

Consider this scenario.
125 - Dance (VT)
133 - Dardanes (Minn)
141 - Steiber (OSU)
149 - Habat (Edinboro)
157 - Martinez (Ill)
165 - Deringer (Ok St)
177 - Kokesh (Neb)
184 - Dean (Cornell)
197 - Cox (Missouri)
285 - Gwazdowski (NC)

If we could get 3 wrestlers in the top 3 (McIntosh, Gulibon, Brown) and 3 more AAs (Conaway, Beitz, Lawson) a couple others in round of 12 (Cutch, Hammond) ... who knows.

Longshot? Yes
Drinking the Kool-aid? Just a little.
 
My heart aches for those kids. NC's are won in the room and they


have been integral to our success over the last four years. Wish them nothing but the best.

I believe folks are shortsighted if they look back at match results from this past year and project that is how our guys will finish. Sanderson knows how to land his guys for the big dance. Q was looking terrible when he won his first. English was a part timer.

Let's enjoy the role of the hunter.
 
Re: My heart aches for those kids. NC's are won in the room and they

+1

Personally, not planning to ice the left over bottles of champagne from last years NC, but to say we have no shot simply underestimates our guys and staff. I think we had a 10x better team last year and need a few breaks our way to get #4 in a row.

Who other than L Streibler has looked unbeatable the entire season?? Its wrestling and when it comes to the tournament "things" happen. A third world country is right now covered in moron and gold championship shirts
 
Re: My heart aches for those kids. NC's are won in the room and they

Oh, now that is gold, dunk. Literally.

The Goophers colors are Moron & Gold.

So good!

Originally posted by dunkej01:
+1

Personally, not planning to ice the left over bottles of champagne from last years NC, but to say we have no shot simply underestimates our guys and staff. I think we had a 10x better team last year and need a few breaks our way to get #4 in a row.

Who other than L Streibler has looked unbeatable the entire season?? Its wrestling and when it comes to the tournament "things" happen. A third world country is right now covered in moron and gold championship shirts
 
Re: My heart aches for those kids. NC's are won in the room and they

The real issue is: Dunk, wtf are you doing, hoarding champagne from last year?
 
Agree with most of what you posted ...


as well as what SRATH's posted.

my only quibble is with this comment of yours:

Who other than L Streibler has looked unbeatable the entire season??
There's no right or wrong answer to this, as it's an opinion. That said, I think there are others that have looked pretty close to unbeatable.

I think you might have a better argument for which wrestler seems most likely to win a title.

FWIW, there are several undefeated wrestlers this year, including:

125: Alan Waters, 27-0
133: Chris Dardanes, 20-0
157: IMar (Isaiah Martinez), 27-0
165: Alex Dieringer, 26-0
174: Robert Kokesh, 30-0
197: J'Den Cox, 29-0
285: Gwiz (Nick Gwiazdowski), 27-0

Let's look at the chances of the respective guys I listed above, as well as Logie Bear.

125: Waters has had several close matches, but he's won all of them. He defeated Tomasello (Ohio St), 11-9. He's faced Klimara (Ok. St.) 2 times, winning 5-4 the 1st time and 9-8 the 2nd time. He defeated Nahshon Garrett (Cornell) 3-1. Lastly, he defeated Thomas Gilman (Iowa), 5-4 TB last weekend. Delgado is lurking, and I never underestimate him. (I thought that Nico and Garrett were better than Delgado last year, and while they both got in deep on his legs he frequently would figure out a way to get the TD or at least stalemate them.) Dance, Gilman, and Garrett have the ability to beat him. He may win it all, and will likely have the #1 seed, but he'll have to earn a title.

133: Dardanes has had close matches with George DiCamillo (UVA), 5-4, Jack Hathaway (Oreg. St.), 3-1, Rossi Bruno (Mich.), 4-2, Zane Richards (Illini), 12-10 SV, Gulibon, 3-2, and Cory Clark (Iowa), 5-3. He'll have to navigate the B1G tourney, and then pretty much all of the aforementioned at Nationals. Plus, A.J. Schopp (Edinboro), Ryan Taylor (Wisky), and Early Hall (Iowa St.) can not be overlooked. Like Waters, I expect Dardanes to be seeded #1 (assuming he wins B1Gs), but he's got a minefield to navigate to win a title.

141: Logie Bear has only had two semi-close matches this year. He defeated Nick Lawrence (Purdue) 4-0 and defeated Michtell Port (Edinboro) 6-3. Port may be the only guy that has a legitimate shot at defeating Stieber at Nationals. I thought Carter would give him a good match, but Logie Bear majored him earlier this year. The other thing that causes me to think Stieber will win this year is that even after he lost to Zain last year, he adjusted his tactics when they met later in the year, and Stieger won rather easily. He's already faced Port and Carter this year, so I doubt there's much they can throw at him that he's not prepared for from them.

157: IMar has only had 1 close match this year, when he defeated James Green (Nebraska), 2-0. That said, he's only a freshman, and he hasn't faced some of the top guys at this weight during the regular season. Ness (Minny) was not in the Illini - Minny dual. He hasn't faced Realbuto (Cornell). He did face Cody Pack (S. Dakota St.) earlier, and defeated him 6-3. IMar is likely to face either Ness or Green (or both) at B1Gs, and he could see them and/or Realbuto and Pack at Nationals, so his path to a title is not without some major obstacles.

165: Dieringer may be the closest thing to Logie Bear in terms of being most likely to win a National title. He's pretty much steamrolled everyone he faced. His 2 closest decisions were a 5-point victory over Clark Glass (Okla.) and a 6--point victories over Nick Sulver (UVA). His biggest obstacles are likely to be Bo Jordan (Ohio St.), Nick Sulzer (UVA), Mike Moreno (Iowa St.), and Isaac Jordan (Wisky), and Sulzer is the only one he's met this year. Some might also list Taylor Walsh (Indy), but I'm not as sold on him, especially when he's facing top guys.

174: Kokesh has only had 2 close matches this year: defeating Zac Brunson (Illini) 5-3 and Matt Brown 3-2. You could probably list his match against John Eblen (Mizzou) as pretty close, as he won 5-2. Kokesh has had a somewhat easy schedule, in that he's not faced Mike Evans (Iowa) or Logan Storley (Minny). He's going to have to get past Brown, Evans, and Storley at B1Gs, and those 3, plus Eblen, look to be his biggest competitors at Nationals. Kokesh may win it all, but I think you could put the names of Kokesh, Brown, Evans, and Storley in a hat, and whichever one you were to randomly pick would have as good a shot as the other 3 as winning the title.

197: J'Den had 2 really close matches against McIntosh (2-1) and Burak (Iowa; 4-3) which he won. He may repeat as National Champ, but he's going to have to deal with some combination of Kyven Gadson (Iowa St.), Kyle Snyder (Ohio St.), McIntosh, Scott Schiller (Minny), and Burak to repeat, and that's not an easy task.

285: Gwiz hasn't faced many of his top competitors by nature of his being on an ACC team. Like Cox, he may also repeat, but to do so he's going to have to navigate through a lot of tough competitors, including Conner Medbery (Wisky), Mike McMullan (NW), Austin Marsden (Ok. St.) (whom he defeated 4-1 last weekend), Adam Coon (Mich.), Bobby Telford (Iowa), and Jimmy Lawson. That's a pretty tough task, IMHO.

Tom
 
Stieber barely beat Dardanes a few weeks back. I'm not saying I think he'll lose, but just pointing that out.
 
Stieber barely beat Dardanes a few weeks back

If you watched the match then you know that Stieber did not beat Dardanes.
 
Moron & Gold.

That's right up there with your announcers "burgundy and yellow".
 
Re: Agree with most of what you posted ...

PSU winning Nationals is about the same as OSU winning Nationals, no way that is going to happen. I will be happy with a top 5 this year and feel we wrestled over seed to do it. We already beat PSU this year (can't ask for everything), Lions don't have enough firepower this year! Only if McCutheon and Conaway was in the title hunt! With the drop off at 125,141, big time at 165 and 184, the rest of the lineup will do better then last year but not by that big of a margin. How many points did Taylor and Ruth score in each of the last two year? If you don't wrestle to seed, those two might have about the same amount of points as your team. Remember, I'm putting OSU in the same boat, so be nice about the hate mail.
 
Great thread guys. Love the detail and knowledge on wrestlers from a national perspective. Looking forward to the BIG's and Nationals.
 
Re: Stieber barely beat Dardanes a few weeks back

Originally posted by jammenz:
If you watched the match then you know that Stieber did not beat Dardanes.
Funny, I DID watch the match and the final score was 10-9 Stieber. jammer continues to troll and now he's actually telling flat out lies. You are at least entertaining.
laugh.r191677.gif
 
Re: Agree with most of what you posted ...

Originally posted by Tom McAndrew:

as well as what SRATH's posted.

my only quibble is with this comment of yours:


Who other than L Streibler has looked unbeatable the entire season??
There's no right or wrong answer to this, as it's an opinion. That said, I think there are others that have looked pretty close to unbeatable.

I think you might have a better argument for which wrestler seems most likely to win a title.

FWIW, there are several undefeated wrestlers this year, including:

125: Alan Waters, 27-0
133: Chris Dardanes, 20-0
157: IMar (Isaiah Martinez), 27-0
165: Alex Dieringer, 26-0
174: Robert Kokesh, 30-0
197: J'Den Cox, 29-0
285: Gwiz (Nick Gwiazdowski), 27-0

Let's look at the chances of the respective guys I listed above, as well as Logie Bear.

125: Waters has had several close matches, but he's won all of them. He defeated Tomasello (Ohio St), 11-9. He's faced Klimara (Ok. St.) 2 times, winning 5-4 the 1st time and 9-8 the 2nd time. He defeated Nahshon Garrett (Cornell) 3-1. Lastly, he defeated Thomas Gilman (Iowa), 5-4 TB last weekend. Delgado is lurking, and I never underestimate him. (I thought that Nico and Garrett were better than Delgado last year, and while they both got in deep on his legs he frequently would figure out a way to get the TD or at least stalemate them.) Dance, Gilman, and Garrett have the ability to beat him. He may win it all, and will likely have the #1 seed, but he'll have to earn a title.

133: Dardanes has had close matches with George DiCamillo (UVA), 5-4, Jack Hathaway (Oreg. St.), 3-1, Rossi Bruno (Mich.), 4-2, Zane Richards (Illini), 12-10 SV, Gulibon, 3-2, and Cory Clark (Iowa), 5-3. He'll have to navigate the B1G tourney, and then pretty much all of the aforementioned at Nationals. Plus, A.J. Schopp (Edinboro), Ryan Taylor (Wisky), and Early Hall (Iowa St.) can not be overlooked. Like Waters, I expect Dardanes to be seeded #1 (assuming he wins B1Gs), but he's got a minefield to navigate to win a title.

141: Logie Bear has only had two semi-close matches this year. He defeated Nick Lawrence (Purdue) 4-0 and defeated Michtell Port (Edinboro) 6-3. Port may be the only guy that has a legitimate shot at defeating Stieber at Nationals. I thought Carter would give him a good match, but Logie Bear majored him earlier this year. The other thing that causes me to think Stieber will win this year is that even after he lost to Zain last year, he adjusted his tactics when they met later in the year, and Stieger won rather easily. He's already faced Port and Carter this year, so I doubt there's much they can throw at him that he's not prepared for from them.

157: IMar has only had 1 close match this year, when he defeated James Green (Nebraska), 2-0. That said, he's only a freshman, and he hasn't faced some of the top guys at this weight during the regular season. Ness (Minny) was not in the Illini - Minny dual. He hasn't faced Realbuto (Cornell). He did face Cody Pack (S. Dakota St.) earlier, and defeated him 6-3. IMar is likely to face either Ness or Green (or both) at B1Gs, and he could see them and/or Realbuto and Pack at Nationals, so his path to a title is not without some major obstacles.

165: Dieringer may be the closest thing to Logie Bear in terms of being most likely to win a National title. He's pretty much steamrolled everyone he faced. His 2 closest decisions were a 5-point victory over Clark Glass (Okla.) and a 6--point victories over Nick Sulver (UVA). His biggest obstacles are likely to be Bo Jordan (Ohio St.), Nick Sulzer (UVA), Mike Moreno (Iowa St.), and Isaac Jordan (Wisky), and Sulzer is the only one he's met this year. Some might also list Taylor Walsh (Indy), but I'm not as sold on him, especially when he's facing top guys.

174: Kokesh has only had 2 close matches this year: defeating Zac Brunson (Illini) 5-3 and Matt Brown 3-2. You could probably list his match against John Eblen (Mizzou) as pretty close, as he won 5-2. Kokesh has had a somewhat easy schedule, in that he's not faced Mike Evans (Iowa) or Logan Storley (Minny). He's going to have to get past Brown, Evans, and Storley at B1Gs, and those 3, plus Eblen, look to be his biggest competitors at Nationals. Kokesh may win it all, but I think you could put the names of Kokesh, Brown, Evans, and Storley in a hat, and whichever one you were to randomly pick would have as good a shot as the other 3 as winning the title.

197: J'Den had 2 really close matches against McIntosh (2-1) and Burak (Iowa; 4-3) which he won. He may repeat as National Champ, but he's going to have to deal with some combination of Kyven Gadson (Iowa St.), Kyle Snyder (Ohio St.), McIntosh, Scott Schiller (Minny), and Burak to repeat, and that's not an easy task.

285: Gwiz hasn't faced many of his top competitors by nature of his being on an ACC team. Like Cox, he may also repeat, but to do so he's going to have to navigate through a lot of tough competitors, including Conner Medbery (Wisky), Mike McMullan (NW), Austin Marsden (Ok. St.) (whom he defeated 4-1 last weekend), Adam Coon (Mich.), Bobby Telford (Iowa), and Jimmy Lawson. That's a pretty tough task, IMHO.

Tom
To give you an idea of how undefeated wrestlers have fared at the National Tournament...

In 2014, 4 entered undefeated, only 1 finished undefeated
In 2013, 9 entered undefeated, 6 finished undefeated
In 2012, 8 entered undefeated, 4 finished undefeated
In 2011, 15 entered undefeated, 5 finished undefeated
In 2010, 9 entered undefeated, 5 finished undefeated

Total in 5 years, 45 entered undefeated, 21 finished undefeated.
 
interesting info, Roar ...


Originally posted by RoarLions1:

To give you an idea of how undefeated wrestlers have fared at the National Tournament...

In 2014, 4 entered undefeated, only 1 finished undefeated
In 2013, 9 entered undefeated, 6 finished undefeated
In 2012, 8 entered undefeated, 4 finished undefeated
In 2011, 15 entered undefeated, 5 finished undefeated
In 2010, 9 entered undefeated, 5 finished undefeated

Total in 5 years, 45 entered undefeated, 21 finished undefeated.
From the raw data, you might state that about half of the undefeated wrestlers would win a title.

The 2011 data set skews things a bit, in that there was never a chance that all 15 undefeated wrestlers could end Nationals with a title.

Appreciate the info.

Tom
 
Yes, it's in the book, which means it's official, thus, public record. The actual events may be up for discussion, but from a "factually accurate" standpoint, Dardanes lost the match and Waters got a point for slamming Gilman.

We don't have revisionist history here. IE: Churella-Hendricks. Hendricks still "won" that match officially too.
 
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