Okay, I haven't said a word about anything other than Sandusky and Ziegler.
I doubt Sandusky gets a new trial. He was rightfully convicted on a lot of the charges.
Ziegler Slaten today 4:30 PM ET
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I doubt Sandusky gets a new trial. He was rightfully convicted on a lot of the charges.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
I'm not trying to be mean, it's just ridiculous. I agree TSM, members of the BOT, and high ranking politicians probably knew more than will ever be known. That said, there's no way to control a situation like this once it takes off. You'd be inviting the entire world into your house with a dead body in the bedroom.
Sandusky is pedophile, accept it and move on. I've listened to the jailhouse interview, he's a typical criminal. Every victim was a horrible kid that took advantage of poor Jerry. I'm sure they all begged Jerry to run around naked with them too.
It's actually quite easy to control the situation when you have the AG/governor on your side.
Why no comment on my post about the illegal GJ leaks tainting the jury pool? Would you be ok if that happened to you? Would you not petition for a new trial? According to your posts youd be totally cool with it huh?
Its not my fault the OAG made a mockery of the justice system in their kangaroo court trial of JS. But since they did we now need to do it all over again. Its going to suck for the victims but they can thank fina/mcgettigan/cleland/corbett for that. Direct your outrage towards them for effing it up royally.
I don't usually wander over here from the Lions Den board, so this whole thread is surprising to me. First, that anyone actually listens to John Zeigler. Second that anyone still believes beyond a reasonable doubt that Sandusky is one of the guiltiest men alive today in the Commonwealth. I just feel like we're on the verge of passing out tinfoil hats here.
So it was leaked, it happens. Was he convicted on every count? No, so the jury had to be somewhat objective.
His lawyers are going to try anything and everything, that doesn't make it so.
It happens?!? Ummmm ok. So that's your answer? If two separate illegal GJ leaks happened before your trial and you ended up getting convicted of 90% of the charges you'd just shrug your shoulders and say "it happens" and take your decades of prison time?
I highly doubt that.
How about you stop avoiding my question?
JS was convicted on 3 of 4 counts re: V2. Yes he was aquitted on the 4th and most serious count. Whats your point?
Either the jury pool was prejudiced or not. It can't be kind of prejudiced on one count and not on others when all the counts involve the same person that was prejucided.
Now, how about you answer my question..
The Freeh Report is part of the false narrative in this saga. The degree of misinformation in the public at large is incredible. From reading comments on Penn State stories, I would guess at least 50% and probably over 70% of the public at large believe the Freeh Report is factual. If and when the Freeh Report is exposed for the fraud that it is, there will be a lot of explaining to do. What motivated the BOT to order a hatchet job? Why was Paterno fired? Why was Spanier fired? Was there any culpability on Penn State's part regarding the V2/MM shower incident? Did Jerry Sandusky receive a fair trial?
You just answered your own question genius. If the jury pool were tainted he would have been found guilty on all counts.
That's the really funny part about your position. If the trial was so unfair how did he beat any of the charges?
Face it, Sandusky is a pedophile and no amount of rationalization or attacking victims is going to change that.
Well id say the fact that JS was convicted on any counts at all re: v2 (no victim, no hard evidence or written contemporaneous report from MM) and V8 (no victim, no witness, no hard evidence) proves my point that the jury was extremely prejudiced. Please find an example of any other case in history where convictions happened with no witness, no victim, and no hard evidence...im all ears.
Still avoiding my question....I don't blame you for not wanting to anwer it bc you have painted yourself into a corner. If you're not ok with illegal GJ leaks if you were the person convicted of crimes but youre ok just with it bc its JS that shows you're a hypocrite. If you are ok with that ("it happens"--lol that was just precious) then you are a person who likes to have their constitutional rights flagrantly violated at the expense of their freedom. Either way doesnt look too good for you.
Well for V2 we did have the account of MM, who had zero incentive to even report it and in fact a big incentive to avoid getting caught up in any of this.
And this came at a time after JS had been investigated for this before but cleared but in the process and said he wished he was dead and that he wouldn't do it again, or whatever the exact words were. How many people are investigated for child sexual abuse and subsequently do not change their behavior, other than those with compulsion issues? Any? No.
And then after all that, coincidentally there happened to be someone many years later that, out of the blue, accused JS of abuse? It's a hell of a coincidence that a person accused of abuse in 2010 or whenever just happened to have a history like that, doncha think?
The leak had nothing to do with his conviction.
He got convicted on those counts because there was a witness to it and the prosecution proved he was a pedophile through other means. That made things Sandusky admitted to criminal acts.
A pedophile showering with a kid is crime because he does it for sexual gratification. That's what he was convicted of on those counts.
Just playing devil's advocate here.. but the guy in question ran a charity for troubled youth, it wasn't like he was some random guy off the street twice accused. What about a QB twice accused of rape, but never convicted. Was that just coincidence for Big Ben? Or did he do it because there were two separate accusers?
You have your wires all crossed up. The Freeh report was garbage and it was a hatchet job. The problem is that report as jacked up as it is has nothing to do with why a truly guilty man is sitting behind bars. Yes people were taken down due to the Freeh report, not to mention the school so there was collateral damage. That is a given, but Jerry Sandusky was not part of that collateral damage. He really did molest children and JZ can't walk back that fact no matter how hard he tries to. The Freeh report was not derived from a courtroom. The state GA and local DA did not need the Freeh report to charge Jerry as remember the Freeh report occurred after the child molester was charged.
I don't buy the Freeh report, but I'm really starting to feel sorry for those here who actually think Jerry may be innocent. They can hide behind the fair trial line, but it's pretty transparent that some here wish it was all just a bad dream and it will all go away. I actually have more respect for those who at least say they think he is innocent rather than those who talk out of both sides of their mouth. Life isn't fair and the school took a huge hit (self inflicted by some at the school) due to Jerry's sick and twisted crimes, but it looks pretty damn bad when PSU folks listen to a guy who can only smear victims on facebook or social media. Someone tends to get into radio or broadcasting because they want attention,,,,and someone here has a little audience that so badly want to believe him, they just connect dots that don't exist.
Maybe someday comes where actual proof of Jerry's innocence is revealed and the entire school/state/victims story is blown up. So far you have a nut saying that some victims of molestation aren't all there as adults. The same victims who went to Jerry's charity because they were troubled already. That sick SOB preyed on kids who already didn't have a fair shake in life. All I can do is shake my head as a few here have convinced themselves since the school screwed up so bad, the whole thing is a lie. That is just scary to me.
Still waiting for proof of his guilt through a fair trial. Isn't that how our system is supposed to work? The "system" couldn't put JS behind bars fast enough. Everybody...and I mean everybody...fell all over one another trying to distance themselves from the guy the minute the presentment was made public.
How are you so sure that JS molested children? The evidence is very underwhelming to me. None of the accusers made contemporaneous reports. All of the accuser's stories have changed over time to better fit the circumstances. Many of the accusers hired lawyers before they went to authorities. There is no physical evidence that ties JS to any acts of molestation. There was no pornography found in JS's possession. JS has always maintained his innocence. His wife and his 4 other children except Matt have stood by him and believe him to be innocent.
JS did not receive a fair trial. The false GJP that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape in the shower polluted the jury pool. The unjustified firing of Joe Paterno exacerbated the problem. The prosecution's case had a problem in that they only had one accuser for two and a half years so they illegally leaked grand jury material to Sara Ganim and accusers then suddenly come out of the woodwork. Sandusky's attorneys were in over their head and totally ineffective. They were not given enough time to prepare for the trial and their requests for continuances were constantly denied.
If you are potentially going to incarcerate someone for the rest of their life, they deserve due process and a fair trial.
It's underwhelming to you that the man had 10+ victims we know come forward. All of which he had access to and told in detail how Jerry molested them. Jerry had NO alibis and had no defense for it at all. None, he didn't have a defense because he is guilty. The only thing JZ can say now is a few were jacked up. Great, awesome. I guess he's falls under it's ok to rape a prostitute line of thinking. How anyone could read those graphic accounts and think they were all made up or just one big mistake is mind blowing. It actually defies any real logic. It just goes to show people well believe what they have to in order to cope with things sometimes.
Stop talking about Joe Paterno or PSU or the BoT. That is not my issue and we probably line up there. Jerry is in jail because he molested kids and had countless victimes testify to this. I get you want to believe this was all a bad dream and dear old state was just a victim, but the victims in this case were children that Jerry assaulted sexually. You don't want it to be true which is fine, but I'm done talking to kids who still want to believe in Santa. He had his day in court and the evident was so overwhelming he was convicted on almost every single charge. Rooting for Jerry here is spitting on Joe's grave. You do notice the Paterno family isn't behind JZ's distorted BS...wonder why. Santa isn't real and Jerry isn't innocent.
You guys have your fun and can call me out when Jerry is out of jail or proven innocent. I'm not holding my breath and I suggest you don't do so either. There is a solid reason why people are growing tired of BWI and this type of crap is why.
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Jerry is in jail because he had crappy lawyers, a crappy Judge who wouldn't allow witnesses to testify, and a cowardly jury that wanted to get out of Dodge as quickly as possible.
I did not read this whole thread....but....
I believe Jerry is a creepy guy. I also believe Jerry is dangerous around kids. However, I also believe that Jerry did not get a fair trial, especially in juxtaposition with how other people have been able to maneuver through the legal system.
I believe Jerry is a creepy guy. I also believe Jerry is dangerous around kids. However, I also believe that Jerry did not get a fair trial, especially in juxtaposition with how other people have been able to maneuver through the legal system.
Well that and he actually molested children. It was everyone else but Jerry,,,I got it ralphie.
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So, your saying no one has ever been railroaded by the judicial system?
Do you think that Jerry Sandusky received a fair trial? Why do you not want to see a new trial? What are you afraid of?
I am rooting for the truth. I don't believe you know as much as you think you know. There are a lot of narratives floating around and I would like to see them carefully reviewed to see which ones hold water. I would like to see the allegations made by Aaron Fisher carefully reviewed. Why did it take AF over 4 months after the initial complaint to allege molestation? How reliable is refreshed memory therapy? Why was AF only able to provide testimony with his psychologist Michael Gillum present? Is AF's behavior consistent with that of a CSA survivor?
I question whether AF's allegations stand on the own. Without AF, the case against JS falls apart.
I'm not afraid of a thing and I sleep just fine at night with that sick SOB locked up. He is guilty as hell and you can hold a million fantasy trials Steve.
I think Jerry had a fair trial. That POS coward had a chance to confront his accusers but he declined to take the stand. You are fixated on AF, what about the other victims that testified? What about the dozen (or more) victims that weren't even part of the case? Do you understand just how deep and elaborate of a screw job it would have to be in order for all of these people to be lying?
This stuff pisses me off everytime I see it. Jerry is a pedophile. Jerry molested kids. He is where he belongs to be. I hope he hates every minute of his life until God strikes his ass down to hell.
I respect your opinion that you believe Jerry Sandusky is a child molester and has gotten what he deserves. Please respect my opinion that I don't believe he received a fair trial, don't believe that he is a pedophile, and believe that he is innocent of the crimes he has been convicted of. I respect your saying that you reserve the right to change your opinion based on future developments. Please keep your ear to the ground. There will be future developments. I plan to do the same.
We will need to agree to disagree of whether or not we think JS had a fair trial.
Joe Amendola was not an effective attorney in the least. It was malpractice to tell the jury that JS would testify and then pull him back. JA should have advised JS to contest the allegations when AF first made them. He should have prepared JS for the Bob Costas interview and had him categorically deny the charges. He should have recommended for him to testify on his own behalf and prepare him for an aggressive cross-examination. The issue of ineffective counsel is one of the strongest avenues of appeal for JS IMO.
AF was the only accuser for 2.5 years after the initial complaint. The other accusers only surfaced after the illegal grand jury leak to Sara Ganim in March, 2011. There were no contemporaneous accusations. Several accusers hired lawyers before they went to authorities. The stories have all changed over time to fit the circumstances. After Joe Paterno was fired and Penn State said they accepted responsibility, the flood gates opened up to enterprising lawyers together with anyone who had contact with JS that could make up a realistic scenario. I believe the possibility of getting millions of dollars in settlement money from Penn State may have been impossible to pass up.
The other accusers only surfaced after the illegal grand jury leak to Sara Ganim in March, 2011.
I'm not aware of any leak to Ganim in March of 2011. Are you talking about the article she wrote?
Yes, the article she wrote in the CDT and Pennlive that was the first media report that Sandusky was under investigation. The articles contained confidential grand jury materials and it is thought that the OAG may have leaked the materials in order to cast a wider net and find more victims. The only problem is that leaking confidential grand jury materials is illegal. The strategy worked as another 4 victims were found in the ensuing months.
Have you considered the possibility of Ganim getting her information from people who had testified?
don't forget that Ganim crapped her pants when the defense subpoena'd her to testify to the fact (the HPN later capitulated to) that she contacted potential victim's mothers to push them to call a specific law enforcement agent to get their "case" moved forward.
How do you know the two illegal GJ leaks had nothing to do with the convictions? We wont know for sure until hearings are conducted and the shenanigans of the OAG are looked into.
There was a "witness" to V2 but no victim and there wasnt any victim or witness for V8. Calhoun never testified and even told the OAG during his interviews that JS wasn't the guy he saw that night re: V8! Yet the oag still prosecuted those charges. Hmmm thats odd wouldn't you say? If their case was so strong and they have all these other victims why bother with V8? Why did the judge allow this nonsense? All the state had for V8 was excited utterance by petrosky that was uncorroborated.
Ive said it before many times. It doesnt look good for JS that he continued to shower with kids after almost getting in huge trouble over it and he dropped his appeal to the indicated ruling re: V1 in spring 2009. JS may very well be guilty of everything but the trial was an absolute mockery of the justice system and you have the oag to thank for that if he gets a new trial. If they would have done things proper the first time we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Lionlurker said it best in a different thread: "There are idiots out there who cannot grasp that JS can be quite guilty, AND the trial to have been a scripted sham. You apparently are one of them."
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Do what you need to Steve. I have other things in my life that trump JS's legal issues. Future developments may occur, but I don't think they will clear Jerry like you want to believe. Others may go down for his disgusting crimes that they could have stopped. Whether that is the state, TSM, or anyone else. That still won't make him a free man. I'm really disheartened by the folks on this site that continue to back that man with no proof he is innocent.
She may have had multiple sources. I have heard that Tom Corbett may have been one of her sources. If we ever find out who her sources were, that could prove interesting. I would love to see Sara give her account of how she won the Pulitzer including who her sources were.
Have you read the Petition for Post Conviction Relief? It contains 476 paragraphs on 111 pages and provides a trove of information that support the defense notion that Sandusky is innocent of the crimes he was convicted of. It includes information that demonstrates the trial wasn't fair such as the janitor charges that are wholly unsubstantiated, v2 is AM, Joe Amendola was completely ineffective as counsel, there were several instances of prosecutorial misconduct, and the jury was biased among other things
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/Sandusky Amended Petition for Post Conviction Relief.pdf
There is a lot of other information available on the internet if you wish to do research.
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This is absolutely correct. People are wrongly incarcerated all the time. Some people act like nobody has ever spent time behind bars that didn't deserve it. It's not common, and even if it's .5%; but shouldn't try to safeguard against the possibility. Why are people against another trial.
It's so tiring listening to closed minded individuals. These hypocrites would be singing a different tune if they were wrongly accused or a loved one was wrongly accused.
And before anyone responds by saying that it could never happen to them because they would never put themselves into the position of showering with young boys; save your breath. Big deal, so the world is not all like you. But can't you at least have empathy for an individual who might be incorrectly incarcerated for the rest of there lives? Come on, be human.
It does happen all the time. How many rapist as that is what Jerry is had 10+ victims ID him and did he have access to? He had no alibi or no real credible defense other than saying all of his hand picked victims were troubled kids.
No doubt about that as the judicial system is not perfect. There isn't a perfect one in the world currently. It's funny because if it were you that was molested by Jerry or your children were with that many victims, your tune wouldn't be the same either. It cuts both ways.
