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2021 Olympic Wrestling Match Thread and USA Wrestlers.

This consistency I saw from this Olympics was that if a US wrestler was in a match and there was a passivity call then the US wrestler was almost always hit with it. We should just have our guys and gals start their matches at 0-1 and get rid of the pretense of fairness.
I’ve thought about this a lot… is it because Americans are so obviously different when attacking/scoring to when they aren’t necessarily putting scoring at the top of their priority list?

like Chamizo always wrestles slow and never gets put on the clock first… is it the drastic difference in optics if Americans in FS?

I’m just throwing shit at the wall.
 
Dmm, I understand your point, Wrestling did amazing, but I'm not a fan of comparing sports as to medal count. Swimming and track have so many more opportunities than Wrestling. 50 meters then 100 meters swimming/track 100 then 200.

Give Wrestlers a medal for the first 3:00 minutes then the second 3:00 then one for combined scores. A Medal for most takedowns.

US Wrestling would clean up if we had a 4 man relay. Dake Nolf Burroughs as part of a relay. David and Bo as half a relay! Wow.

As for track and field my opinion is different when you have a sprinter like Carl Lewis getting a sprint medal then a long jump one.

Finally as a very old former high school distant runner I have the same love of the marathon.

I'm old, I'm pulling for Frank Shorter.

DMM I appreciated your posts this whole tournament. Good stuff.
Did you see Molly Seidel last night? After becoming just the third US woman to ever medal in the Olympic Marathon, she was talking to her friends and family back in Wisconsin. Like any good Wisconsinite, her last instructions to them were, "Drink a beer for me!" 🤣🤣
 
Did you see Molly Seidel last night? After becoming just the third US woman to ever medal in the Olympic Marathon, she was talking to her friends and family back in Wisconsin. Like any good Wisconsinite, her last instructions to them were, "Drink a beer for me!" 🤣🤣
Yep. Seidel ran really well. The 2 Kenyans pulled away in the last few miles but conditions were really hot and humid. Anyone who has run a marathon (or long distance race) knows how tough it is to keep focus, keep the the pace going, and push one's body to the limit. It's a near religious experience (and I'm not especially religious). The training that goes into distance running and wrestling have a few things in common.

Looking forward to seeing how Rupp does in the men's marathon, which starts at 6 PM today on USA network. He won a bronze I think in Rio and has moved up from the 10 K (6.2 miles).
 
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I’ve thought about this a lot… is it because Americans are so obviously different when attacking/scoring to when they aren’t necessarily putting scoring at the top of their priority list?

like Chamizo always wrestles slow and never gets put on the clock first… is it the drastic difference in optics if Americans in FS?

I’m just throwing shit at the wall.

Personally, I think it's many Americans desire to wrestle with separation in Neutral (more of a desire to "shoot" for a TD than work from a tie or clinch). "Shooting" is often the preferred offensive weapon in Folk - especially in the first 5 weights. This often results in Americans backing up in Neutral position as they are trying to create separation to set up a shot (including trying to create separation when attempting to break a tie). It is a bad habit resulting from Folk Technique, because it is almost always going to be judged as passivity in Free until they actually fire off their shot.
 
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Freestyle wrestling…. It’s a sport that at one time in the very recent past, had its competitors pick a ball out of a small pouch and if it was their color, they could start OT on their opponent’s leg. I mean who in God's name could come up with such a rule? lol
A Georgia University alumnus.

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Did you see Molly Seidel last night? After becoming just the third US woman to ever medal in the Olympic Marathon, she was talking to her friends and family back in Wisconsin. Like any good Wisconsinite, her last instructions to them were, "Drink a beer for me!" 🤣🤣
No I missed it. I saw the highlights on the Olympic Channel. Her comments were good, thanks.

These Olympics killed me. Several nights I went to sleep at 3:00 am and woke up at 6:00 am.

I'm now partially retired but when I worked I would take off a couple of days to watch the Olympics. It didn't matter is it was the Summer or Winter games.

Great competition is great competition.
 
Personally, I think it's many Americans desire to wrestle with separation in Neutral (more of a desire to "shoot" for a TD than work from a tie or clinch). "Shooting" is often the preferred offensive weapon in Folk - especially in the first 5 weights. This often results in Americans backing up in Neutral position as they are trying to create separation to set up a shot (including trying to create separation when attempting to break a tie). It is a bad habit resulting from Folk Technique, because it is almost always going to be judged as passivity in Free until they actually fire off their shot.
My problem is that it’s judged as passivity in Free even AFTER they fire off several shots as in both the Taylor & Snyder matches. From reading this thread that is the correct way to judge passivity in Free and, to me, that is a problem with Free. My two cents.
 
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Personally, I think it's many Americans desire to wrestle with separation in Neutral (more of a desire to "shoot" for a TD than work from a tie or clinch). "Shooting" is often the preferred offensive weapon in Folk - especially in the first 5 weights. This often results in Americans backing up in Neutral position as they are trying to create separation to set up a shot (including trying to create separation when attempting to break a tie). It is a bad habit resulting from Folk Technique, because it is almost always going to be judged as passivity in Free until they actually fire off their shot.
Very good points. I’m in agreeable. “Shooting” doesn’t mean you aren’t “pass-eve” (foreign accent). Not scoring means you’re “pass-eve”, and it’s damn near arbitrary. They just wanna get a point on the board and force action.
 
Agree to disagree on those exposures. Can you imagine how hard it is to move Kyle Snyder somewhere against his will?

Pretty crafty way to do it as that was not the normal chest wrap we see from him. He went for the big 4 and had Kyle floating in mid air for a couple seconds (which was insane) and then made the adjustment to go for more of a hip tip/belly whizzer motion straight to the side. I'll have to rewatch, but I think he used his free leg to hook Kyle under the armpit to get those last few inches to 90.

Yes, no doubt. Not only do all competitors understand that this is "the rules", but these have always been the rules in International (i.e., "Olympic") Freestyle Wrestling. It is Folk-Style wrestling that bastardized the rule, not vice-versa. It's why this type of move, even if you garner "control" off it is only awarded the exposure points off it, not exposures plus TD points (i.e., it is considered offensive points equivalent to a TD).... it is also the reason the bottom wrestler is awarded a 1-Point Reversal if they gain control coming out of an exposure (or sequence of exposures) during a scramble.
 
My problem is that it’s judged as passivity in Free even AFTER they fire off several shots as in both the Taylor & Snyder matches. From reading this thread that is the corerect way to judge passivity in Free and, to me, that is a problem with Free. My two cents.

Again, from the point where they fire off the shot and the ensuing scramble up to the stalemate (i.e., shot has to be stalemated for wrestlers to remain scoreless and mandatory shot-clock penalty to come into play) is not counted as "passivity", that is counted as positive offensive action in terms of "net passivity". However, once wrestlers are put back on feet and American begins backing up, it again starts counting as "passivity". It is the "net passivity" during the elapsed 2 minutes that is supposed to determine who gets put on shot clock.
 
Total Wrestling Medals
(gold-silver-bronze)


United States 9 (3-2-4)
ROC 8 (4-0-4)
Japan 7 (5-1-1)
Ukraine 4 (1-1-2)
Iran 4 (1-1-2)
China 4 (0-2-2)
Cuba 3 (2-0-1)
Germany 3 (1-0-2)
Kyrgyzstan 3 (0-2-1)
Belarus 3 (0-2-1)
Azerbaijan 3 (0-1-2)
Turkey 3 (0-0-3)
Hungary 2 (1-1-0)
Georgia 2 (0-2-0)
India 1 (0-1-1)
Bulgaria 2 (0-0-2)
Armenia 1 (0-1-0)
Nigeria 1 (0-1-0)
Poland 1 (0-0-1)
Egypt 1 (0-0-1)
Serbia 1 (0-0-1)
Kazakhstan 1 (0-0-1)
San Marino 1 (0-0-1)
Uzbekistan 1 (0-0-1)
Mongolia 1 (0-0-1)
Italy (0-0-1)

Women’s Freestyle Medals

Japan 4 (4-0-0)
United States 4 (1-1-2)
China 3 (0-2-1)
Kyrgyzstan 2 (0-1-1)
Belarus 2 (0-1-1)
Ukraine 2 (0-0-2)
Bulgaria, 2 (0-0-2)
Germany 1 (1-0-0)
Nigeria 1 (0-0-1)
Turkey, 1 (0-0-1)
Mongolia 1 (0-0-1)
Azerbaijan 1 (0-0-1)

Men’s Freestyle Medals

ROC 5 (3-0-2)
United States 5 (2-1-2)
Iran 2 (0-1-1)
Japan 1 (1-0-0)
India 1 (0-1-0)
Belarus 1 (0-1-0)
Georgia 1 (0-1-0)
Axerbaijan 1 (0-1-0)
Kazakhstan 1 (0-0-1)
San Marino 1 (0-0-1)
Uzbekistan 1 (0-0-1)
Turkey 1 (0-0-1)
Cuba 1 (0-0-1)
Italy 1 (0-0-1)
India 1 (0-0-1)

Greco-Roman Medals

ROC 3 (1-2-0)
Cuba 2 (2-0-0)
Hungary 2 (1-1-0)
Ukraine 2 (1-1-0)
Iran 2 (1-0-1)
Japan 2 (0-1-1)
Germany 2 (0-0-2)
Georgia 1 (0-1-0)
Kyrgyzstan 1 (0-1-0)
Armenia 1 (0-1-0)
Turkey, 1 (0-0-1)
China, 1 (0-0-1)
Azerbaijan 1 (0-0-1)
Poland 1 (0-0-1)
Egypt 1 (0-0-1)
Serbia (0-0-1)
 
Very good points. I’m in agreeable. “Shooting” doesn’t mean you aren’t “pass-eve” (foreign accent). Not scoring means you’re “pass-eve”, and it’s damn near arbitrary. They just wanna get a point on the board and force action.

It also likely explains our weakness in Greco-Roman while being a world-power in Free. American-Folk is highly complimentary and convertible to Free with some adjustments (that's what it was carved from afterall), but does not really convert to Greco-Roman at all (American-Folk is highly geared toward leg attacks - most pinning combination TD-to-Back are predicated off of scrambling in kneeling position... pancake, cement-mixer, cow-catcher, etc... High-Applitude throws like a suplay are not featured in Folk and are generally illegal as a "potentially dangerous" move (i.e., penalized up to, and including, forfeiting match if your opponent is unable to continue.)).
 
Not trying to start an argument of any kind, but in all honesty, if you can't appreciate Sudalev's domination of KS in the Neutral position yesterday, I'm not sure how big a pure wrestling fan you are. I unquestionably wanted KS to win yesterday, but was pretty much in awe of what Sudalev did to him from Neutral - just unbelievably impressive to dominate, and manhandle, one of the best pfp wrestlers (and an Olympic Gold Medalist) in the world like that. While I was not rooting for him, I have to give him mad respect for his last 2 performances against Snyder. The guy is a freaking beast (there's a reason he has only lost once since 2014 - to KS in 2017 Worlds). He is imho the greatest Russian wrestler since the Russian Bear, Karelin, who was, and still is, the wrestling GOAT (probably followed by Bruce Baumgartner or Jordan Burroughs).
 
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The crazy thing about her is that she looks tiny even at 50KG. They had a special on NHK about her when she was 14 and I’ve been following her ever since.
Have been following her since her December, 2017, 10 - 0 loss to Yuki Irie in that year's Emperor's Cup. The way she handled that loss and fought back thru injury and surgery to make it to the Asian Olympic Trials two years later, albeit with benefit of some good luck when Irie lost to Yanan Sun of China in the quarterfinals of the Asian Championships to open the door for her, speaks to levels of character, persistence and tenacity, combined with just plain athletic ability, which very few human beings possess. Once into the Asian Trials, fully recovered from a serious elbow dislocation which required surgery, she went through four opponents like a hot knife thru butter, winning by a combined score of 40 - 0 and taking just over 10 total minutes of match time (out of a possible 24-) to do it. Oddsmakers apparently took notice, establishing a betting line of -230 on her winning the Gold at Tokyo. By way of contrast Mariya Stadnik, the second-favorite at 50 Kg, went off at +115. In the event, Susaki more than justified her betting line, going thru four of the best opponents the world has to offer by a combined score of 41 - 0 in not much more than the amount of mat time she required to do the same kind of thing at the Trials.

All of which leads me to believe she is the currently the best P4P amateur wrestler, male or female, in the world. No one else has demonstrated anything approaching the kind of consistent- and utter domination of top world-level competition shown by Yui Susaki, both at the Asian Olympic Trials and the 2021 Olympic Games themselves.
 
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Again, from the point where they fire off the shot and the ensuing scramble up to the stalemate (i.e., shot has to be stalemated for wrestlers to remain scoreless and mandatory shot-clock penalty to come into play) is not counted as "passivity", that is counted as positive offensive action in terms of "net passivity". However, once wrestlers are put back on feet and American begins backing up, it again starts counting as "passivity". It is the "net passivity" during the elapsed 2 minutes that is supposed to determine who gets put on shot clock.
So, correct me if I’m wrong, it’s considered “not passive” when Sadulaev simply ties up Snyder and “holds center”. However, when Snyder snaps down to create separation so he can take a shot at a takedown, this is considered disengaging and therefore “passive”, when, in fact, Snyder is the one attempting to create action.

I’m not arguing it was called incorrectly at all. I’m saying that logic is patently absurd and why I prefer Folk to Free. If that makes me not a “real” wrestling fan, so be it. I’m good with that.
 
Men’s Freestyle Medals fixed it

ROC 5 (3-0-2)
State College 4 (1-1-2)
Iran 2 (0-1-1)
United States 1 (1-0-0)
Japan 1 (1-0-0)
India 1 (0-1-0)
Belarus 1 (0-1-0)
 
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So, correct me if I’m wrong, it’s considered “not passive” when Sadulaev simply ties up Snyder and “holds center”. However, when Snyder snaps down to create separation so he can take a shot at a takedown, this is considered disengaging and therefore “passive”, when, in fact, Snyder is the one attempting to create action.

I’m not arguing it was called incorrectly at all. I’m saying that logic is patently absurd and why I prefer Folk to Free. If that makes me not a “real” wrestling fan, so be it. I’m good with that.

No, doing a Snap Down while staying engaged and holding position would not be considered passive. However, if your opponent is consistently moving forward in a tie-position.... and you are consistently moving back, then it would be considered passive even if you do a Snap Down to temporarily hold your opponent off and create separation. The reason being is that the Snap Down is being executed as a defensive maneuver to stall your opponent's inexorable advance. Not sure if that makes sense to you, but that is how it is viewed by the Global Wrestling Community outside of the United States (and it is important to remember that the sport has been being contested, and invented, within the Indo-European Area for a long, long time - a period of time that greatly exceeds the existence of Folk-Style Wrestling).
 
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Yep. Seidel ran really well. The 2 Kenyans pulled away in the last few miles but conditions were really hot and humid. Anyone who has run a marathon (or long distance race) knows how tough it is to keep focus, keep the the pace going, and push one's body to the limit. It's a near religious experience (and I'm not especially religious). The training that goes into distance running and wrestling have a few things in common.

Looking forward to seeing how Rupp does in the men's marathon, which starts at 6 PM today on USA network. He won a bronze I think in Rio and has moved up from the 10 K (6.2 miles).
Interesting fact: Seidel won the state 1600, 3200 and cross country championships in Wisconsin ALL FOUR YEARS of her HS career.
 
USA wrestling rulebook Here is what USA Wrestling puts out regarding freestyle and greco rules. There is also a link at the end of the Table of Contents to download the rule book. I highlighted criteria for determining a winner at the end of a bout since there has been some confusion on it. Maybe we can all study up so any future freestyle discussions are more , shall I say, informed ;) I have included some highlights for us all:

If the point total is equal at the end of a match, the following criteria will determine the winner, in this order:
  1. Highest value scoring actions (most 5 point actions, most 4 point actions, most 2 point actions)
  2. Least number of accrued cautions
  3. Last point scored
  • TAKEDOWN: awarded to the wrestler who takes his opponent to the mat with control and the defensive wrestler hit 3 points of contact (head, hands, elbows, and knees). All takedowns are worth two points. To achieve a takedown the offensive wrestler must:
    • Pass behind their opponent from a par terre position.
    • Take their opponent down to the mat from a standing position and pass behind their opponent's hips.
    • Gain control of one or both legs of his or her opponent while that wrestler is on his or her hip or in a sitting position on his or her backside while the plane of the defensive wrestler’s back is less than 90 degrees towards the mat all while the defensive wrestler plants their hand or elbow on the mat.
    • Lock up a cradle position while the defensive wrestler does not actively hold the leg of the offensive wrestler. In this case, it is not necessary to pass behind the hips of the defensive wrestler.
    • Examples that are not takedowns - if the offensive wrestler spins behind his or her opponent and the defensive wrestler attains a quadpod position, it is not considered a takedown until the defensive wrestler’s head, elbow or knee contact the mat. The “Merkle” position, where one wrestler has his/her leg encircled inside the leg of his or her opponent while in par terre and have the head and arm of their opponent locked at the same time is not considered a takedown in international wrestling because the offensive wrestler has not passed behind the defensive wrestler. The hips of the defensive athlete must be covered for the offensive wrestler to achieve a takedown.
  • FLEEING THE MAT: where either wrestler goes out-of-bounds voluntarily and makes no effort to stay in the center wrestling area. This can occur in either standing or par terre wrestling. This is penalized by a caution to the wrestler at fault and one point (F/S) or two points (G/R) to the opponent, assuming the defensive wrestler in not in danger. Restarts following a fleeing the mat call shall start in the position in which the infraction occurred. Video
    • SPECIAL SITUATION: IF THE DEFENSIVE WRESTLER FLEES THE MAT WHILE IN THE DANGER POSITION, THE WRESTLER AT FAULT SHALL RECEIVE A CAUTION AND THE OPPONENT SHALL RECEIVE TWO POINTS IN BOTH F/S AND G/R. WRESTLERS SHOULD RESTART IN THE PAR TERRE POSITION.
  • FLEEING THE HOLD: where either wrestler is avoiding contact with their opponent to prevent being scored upon. This can occur in either standing or par terre wrestling at any point in a match, but most often occurs when time is running out. Restarts following a fleeing the hold call shall start in the position in which the infraction occurred. Video Recommended Procedure: If the officiating team recognizes fleeing the hold while the athletes are in a standing position, they should stop and give an “attention” to the wrestler at fault assuming there is adequate time left in the period. If the same wrestler continues to flee the hold, then the referee should stop and ask for a caution and 1 point (F/S)
  • STEP-OUT: if the attacking wrestler steps out first while in the process of an action, the following situations may occur:
    • If the action is completed, the points will be scored as appropriate
    • If the action is not completed, the opponent will score one point because the offensive wrestler stepped out-of-bounds first
    • If the offensive wrestler has lifted the defensive wrestler and steps out with both feet, the bout shall be stopped and no points will be awarded. If the offensive wrestler has the defensive wrestler lifted off the mat and only steps out with one foot but is in the process of completing the throw, the action should be allowed to continue and scored appropriately. All in all, if the offensive wrestler has the defensive wrestler lifted off the mat and either steps out with both feet or steps out with one foot and is not able to complete their throw or is not doing anything to try to score, the bout shall be stopped, no points shall be awarded and wrestling will restart in the standing position.
Visible pushouts in either style will not be scored. If a wrestler visibly pushes out their opponent (for e.g.-straight arm push-out), they will be given an “attention”. Any subsequent pushouts will not be scored for either athlete. The “pushing” wrestler will NOT be penalized with a caution and points for his or her opponent. Video - pushing out no points

Passivity​

Passivity is a tool that the officiating crew can use to stimulate action from a wrestler who is not actively attempting to score. Passivity can be observed as:
  • Evading attacks without counterattacks
  • Attacking without direct contact with the opponent
  • Faked attacks
  • Not able to control center
  • Grabbing wrists without starting an attack
  • Regaining initial position after beginning an attack
  • Evading into and maintaining position within the passivity zone
  • Fixing one’s opponent within the passivity zone
  • Defensive wrestling
  • Wrestling on one’s knees while not in contact with the opponent
  • In G/R wrestling, not attempting to “hook” his opponent despite good position
The referee should attempt to stimulate action using proper UWW vocabulary—“open,” “action,” “contact”, “head up,” prior to officially asking for passivity confirmation. See below for style specific passivity guidelines: Video - FS, Video - GR
Freestyle Passivity Procedure-FOR ALL AGE GROUPS
1st passivity violation

•Referee signals passivity with an open hand and an outstretched arm and gets confirmation from the mat chairman. To indicate confirmation is received, the referee raises the hand indicating the color of the passive wrestler.
•Stop the match for verbal warning: “Red or blue, attention”. Using one hand in a circular motion, indicate to the passive wrestler to be more active as well as clarify why the wrestler is being passive.
2nd passivity violation
•Stop the match once confirmation from the mat chairman is given and there is no imminent scoring action in progress
•Indicate the 30-second activity period to the passive wrestler using both hands in a circular motion. It is not necessary to give any gestures or verbalize to the coaches that the activity time is started. The referee shall wait until the activity time is clearly indicated on the scoreboard prior to restarting the match.
•If neither wrestler scores at the end of the :30 activity period, one point will be awarded to the active wrestler. The match shall not be stopped to award this point. No caution will be given for not scoring in the activity period.
•If either wrestler scores, no cautions or additional points are rewarded. The :30 activity clock is ignored and wrestling shall continue without stoppage.
Further passivity violations
•Further activity time periods can be initiated directly—no additional warnings are given after the first verbal warning. The first verbal warning does carry over between periods.
•No activity period shall be given after 2:30 (1:30 in 14U and younger) or 5:30 (3:30 in 14U and younger)
All passivity calls must be confirmed by the mat chairman. It is obligatory that the officiating crew stop the match around 2:00 (1:00 in 14U and younger) and prior to 2:30/1:30 (if a score is in progress at 2:00/1:00) if the score is 0-0, consult, and immediately put a wrestler into a 30-second activity period. The first period in every freestyle match must never end 0-0. The 1st passivity violation (verbal warning) should be denoted as “V” in the match paperwork; all subsequent passivity violations shall be denoted by “P.”
If a wrestler is put on activity time, they must score within the :30 time frame allotted. If he or she starts an action prior to the :30 time frame being completed, he or she will be allowed to finish their action, but if that action does not score by the end of :30, the opposing wrestler will be given one point. The match will not be stopped to award this point. A caution for not scoring in the :30 activity period no longer applies.
It is possible for acts that are deemed to be passive early on in a period, could be considered fleeing the hold if done later in a period, especially with short time on the clock (less than 30 seconds). If the referee wants to warn a wrestler for fleeing the hold, they should stop the match and offer a verbal “attention” to the wrestler at fault as well as to his or her coach. This way, the athletes, coaches, and fans will be able to differentiate when a wrestler is being called for passivity versus fleeing the hold.
If after restarting the match, the actions that lead to the “attention” persist, the referee should stop the bout, signal for a caution to the less active wrestler, and score one point to the opponent.

Greco Roman Passivity Procedure-FOR ALL AGE GROUPS
There are three scenarios in which the refereeing team needs to stimulate a match with a passivity call:
  1. The score is 0-0 and wrestlers have had adequate time to score in the standing position
  2. The score is tied and one wrestler is clearly more active.
  3. One wrestler has the lead and his opponent acts too defensively.
1st passivity violation in a match, regardless of wrestler (given after referee uses UWW vocabulary to stimulate “passive” wrestler):
• Referee signals passivity with an open hand and an outstretched arm and gets confirmation from the mat chairman. Upon confirmation, the referee stops the bout, the active wrestler is awarded one point and given the option to continue wrestling standing or on top in the par terre position.
2nd passivity violation, regardless of wrestler:
• Referee signals passivity with an open hand and an outstretched arm and gets confirmation from the mat chairman. Upon confirmation, the referee stops the bout, the active wrestler is awarded one point and given the option to continue wrestling standing or on top in the par terre position.
3rd and any subsequent passivity violation
• Referee signals passivity with an open hand and an outstretched arm and gets confirmation from the mat chairman. To indicate confirmation is received, the referee raises their hand indicating the passive wrestler and stops the match. The active wrestler is given the choice of resuming wrestling standing or on top in the par terre position. The active wrestler WILL NOT be awarded one point. If a third passivity is given, it should only be given in a lower scoring bout and sufficient time should be left in the second period to allow for enough time for a par terre sequence (approximately one minute left in six minute bout, for example).
If an athlete chooses to restart the match in the standing position after a passivity call against his opponent, this will count as one of the two allotted ordered "par terre" positions in the bout, even though the athletes are not restarting the match in this position. The restriction limiting to only one ordered par terre per period is no longer in effect. Time restrictions for offering passivity have been eliminated. Sufficient time should be offered to the top wrestler when in an ordered par terre position to allow for the development of scoring actions.
*NO FORMAL “VERBAL” WARNING IS GIVEN TO INSTITUTE THE G/R PASSIVITY PROTOCOL IN ANY AGE CATEGORY OTHER THAN THE REFEREE STIMULATING THE WRESTLERS DURING THE COURSE OF THE BOUT.
All passivities shall be denoted by a “P” on the match paperwork.
It is possible for acts that are deemed to be passive early on in a period, could be considered fleeing the hold or negative wrestling (see next section) if done later in a period, especially with short time on the clock (less than 30 seconds). If the referee wants to warn a wrestler for fleeing the hold or negative wrestling, they should stop the match and offer a verbal “attention” to the wrestler at fault. This way, the athletes, coaches, and fans will be able to differentiate when a wrestler is being called for passivity versus fleeing the hold/negative wrestling.
If after restarting the match, the actions that lead to the “attention” persist, the referee should stop the match and signal for a caution for the less active wrestler. Check for confirmation. A caution should be given to the less active wrestler and two points should be awarded to his opponent.


Negative Wrestling​

Tactics employed by wrestlers whose only objective is to prevent scoring actions, avoid “open” wrestling or deliberately cause harm to their opponent are considered negative wrestling. This can include, but is not limited to:
  • Interlocking fingers
  • Blocking the opponent with one’s head, one or two hands to the face, or blocking at the opponent’s chest
  • Fleeing the mat or fleeing the hold
  • Brutality
Two approaches can be taken by the referee team to penalize a wrestler for negative wrestling:
  1. The referee stops the match and gives the wrestler an “Attention,” clarifying to them what they need to change. If the negative wrestling persists, the referee should stop the match, ask for a caution, and award one point (F/S) or two points (G/R) to the opponent. The mat chairman must confirm this call to be valid.
  2. If the negative wrestling prevents an active scoring action or is considered beyond fair play (i.e. brutality), the referee can ask for a caution and one point (F/S) or two points (G/R) immediately without a formal “Attention.” The mat chairman must confirm this call to be valid.
 
Do you know that David Taylor's dad is a Delta airlines pilot? I'm sure he has had to do weight calculations a lot.

About 4-5 years ago, I took a Delta flight from Florida into Atlanta for a change over. Atlanta is Delta's home base. I was wearing a Penn State sweatshirt, and when we got into the main terminal, I saw a Delta pilot sitting down and looking right at me pretty intently. Unfortunately, I was in a pretty big hurry to catch my connecting flight or I would have stopped to chat. I'm pretty sure it was Dave Taylor Sr.
As Hugh Grant said in Notting Hill:
It's not really a classic, anecdote, is it?
 
The top article on the Wall Street Journal (not the sports section, the entire site) is about wrestling: speaks to the popularity of the sport:

 
This board would be easier to read if you stapled this information to a few posters’ foreheads.

Some people here are dense to this topic by choice, refuse to grasp the rules, yet keep complaining.
If we’re going to staple information to posters foreheads for complaining wouldn’t we quickly run out of staples?
 
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Maybe someone could get the hula hoop girl to whisper to cael to bring crop in to get Greco going in the USA.
 
So for Snyder to win he just needs to hold space in the middle and not shoot the entire match then he has a chance to win that's all the Russian did right just counter and hold center and your good.
So, correct me if I’m wrong, it’s considered “not passive” when Sadulaev simply ties up Snyder and “holds center”. However, when Snyder snaps down to create separation so he can take a shot at a takedown, this is considered disengaging and therefore “passive”, when, in fact, Snyder is the one attempting to create action.

I’m not arguing it was called incorrectly at all. I’m saying that logic is patently absurd and why I prefer Folk to Free. If that makes me not a “real” wrestling fan, so be it. I’m good with that.
 
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Str8DBLz thanks for the inadvertent information that such book exists. Expecting a grandchild soon and what better way to teach some letters. A lot of Penn State letters in there. Cael, Bo, Q, Ed, David and Frank represented a letter.

The book order went in tonight.

Watched women's volleyball kill it. Now Time for bed. Thanks all for your great Olympic posts.
 
Separating from the Taylor match, talking more generally:

Wrestling fans often fall into the trap of "my guy didn't stall, he took more shots." Stalling can happen at any moment in the match. As if taking 3 shots in a period is license to coast for 10 sec. The sport is better when the wrestlers are held accountable for action throughout. (Whether that's applied consistently is another story.)

As far as passivity goes: when NC State beat Iowa at CHA a few years ago. Max Rohskopf tweeted that Hawk fans didn't care if any wrestling occurred as long as they saw lots of hand fighting. That is the perfect description of UWW refs.
Recognizing the differences in the rules, I prefer folk a bit. But I can’t help but wonder if there might be a better happy medium that incents action on the one hand but allows for the creativity and variety of mat action on the other.
 
Between fishing and wrestling my body just hurts.

Need to go back to work I guess.....or maybe I'll spend a day at the pool.

Either way wrestling and fishing twitter is the closest I'll get to physical activities.

#needsleep
 
Anyone else think Snyder could have been awarded exposure points right after his TD - when Sudalev went to the mat he immediately went to a sit-out position - KS was locked on his shoulders - and it appeared that his back broke 90 degrees to the mat exposing his shoulders with KS in control. It was extremely brief like only a second or two, but it was very close to a potential exposure. Anyone else see what I am referring to?
 
That first passivity call could have easily (!) gone in Snyder's favor. It put Snyder in the hole and then all his offensive shots were countered until the final minute. Sadulaev didn't do any attacking the whole match. But, as noted, his counters were very high level and worked.
A minute in the ref warned Saduleav for passivity then 30 seconds later puts Snyder on the clock.
 
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Recognizing the differences in the rules, I prefer folk a bit. But I can’t help but wonder if there might be a better happy medium that incents action on the one hand but allows for the creativity and variety of mat action on the other.

Folks glorification of riding, for the sake of nothing else, but riding (i.e., the refusal to stalemate unproductive top-wrestling in terms of producing pointable action) needs to be addressed as well. The Guilbon-Heil match demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt how badly Folk's infatuation with, and incentivizing, of, "riding" is completely at odds with the fundamental, and seminal, rules of the sport Heil stuck himself twice via Guilbon "stacking" him and Folk's infatuation with, and incentivizing of, "riding" is the very reason Heil was doing what he was doing.

"Riding" and "riding time" are not even part of the seminal rules of the sport Folk is carved from, yet Folk not only incentivizes riding via a point (which can and often does determine the outcome of a low-scoring match), but they also use RT as the only criteria to determine the winner of a match that remains tied after all SVs and TBs!

The way Folk incentivizes Stalling and Riding leads to very little real pointable action and 2-1, 2-0... 2-2 ties determined by RT-ADV, etc.....
 
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