All yinz guys that have been screaming to fire Chambers

[AWS1022]

Harrar is a true freshman. I think he is going to be awesome.

If you have never seen a weaker bench you must not have watched PSU basketball for very long. The DeChellis years in particular featured no bench whatsoever.

I guess I should have said I’ve never seen a bench with guys who are supposed to be good, and are pretty good on the defensive side of the ball, be so poor on the offensive side of the ball. Wheeler looks like a stud on defense and then turns around and looks like he’s never played offense in his life. It’s weird.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I guess I should have said I’ve never seen a bench with guys who are supposed to be good, and are pretty good on the defensive side of the ball, be so poor on the offensive side of the ball. Wheeler looks like a stud on defense and then turns around and looks like he’s never played offense in his life. It’s weird.

Yeah. That's true about Wheeler. But overall he's ok. As far as the bench goes, I think Bostick plays too much. He is a year away from contributing and too much of a liability right now.

If the lineup next year is Carr, Reaves, Stevens, Harrar, and Watkins; subbing in Wheeler, Bostick, and Pierce - all with another year of experience - that is extremely solid by PSU standards. I think we are top 3 in the league with that. Chambers needs to go huge in the OOC schedule so he ends up with a top 5 SOS nationally. He needs to create a situation where even with 10 losses the RPI is top 25. And with 5-7 losses we are ranked in the top 15. Unfortunately, if anyone leaves it's not a good scene.

 

[Bubbas Breakaway]

In the game that could have saved his job, a Big Ten semi final, Chambers has the team up by a few points just a minute before halftime.

He proceeded to get a technical foul called on himself, blow the lead to the point that Purdue led by 5 at the half, and made no preparations for any second half adjustments.

Good riddance.

 

[bison13]

Those three (Wheeler, Bostick and Harrar) need to show offensive improvement. I think all 3 of them can be good players, but need more offensive skills.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Those three (Wheeler, Bostick and Harrar) need to show offensive improvement. I think all 3 of them can be good players, but need more offensive skills.

Harrar is almost there, IMO, which is rare for a true freshman. Wheeler will be fine.

I'm not sure Bostick is ever more than a good 6th man.

And what happened to Zemgulis?

 

[Ranger Dan]

They should host an NIT game, should be one of the favorites to win it. They need to get to NYC.

With a healthy Watkins, I would agree that Penn State would be in a good position to win the NIT. Then again, a healthy Watkins may have resulted in a couple more wins at the end of the season and in a better position to get an NCAA bid. As it is now, it will be tough in the NIT, especially if there are teams with a couple of capable big men.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I agree that this season was unacceptable. They should have finished ahead of Miichigan in the standings, we had the ability to do so.

However, there is still a slim chance that the committee will put us in one of the play-in games. The 3 wins over OSU are not going to be overlooked.

The talking heads believe we should be out. But these are the same idiots who went apoplectic when the committee selected VCU over a crappy Colorado team and then VCU almost won the national title.

How is the season “unacceptable”? Disappointing, yes, but unacceptable would mean that our program has had a level of success that would result in the expectation of an NCAA berth as opposed to this being an aspiration.

 

[Norm Petersin]

Dread will help next year.

 

[mjh218]

Lunardi has PSU as one of his first four out. That could change depending on how the conference tournaments go. Seems to me that this season was an improvement over the last one and the 5-6 before that. Its a slow climb and it isn’t an easy one - PSU doesn’t spend the $ on basketball that other programs do. We have a crappy arena and not a lot of fan support most of the time (not that I blame the fans, the product has been blah for years).

Seems to me program is on the upswing.

 

[BobPSU92]

In the game that could have saved his job, a Big Ten semi final, Chambers has the team up by a few points just a minute before halftime.

He proceeded to get a technical foul called on himself, blow the lead to the point that Purdue led by 5 at the half, and made no preparations for any second half adjustments.

Good riddance.

Chambers wasn’t coaching to save his job.

 

[Bubbas Breakaway]

Chambers wasn’t coaching to save his job.

True. He's chronically situationally unaware.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Lunardi has PSU as one of his first four out. That could change depending on how the conference tournaments go. Seems to me that this season was an improvement over the last one and the 5-6 before that. Its a slow climb and it isn’t an easy one - PSU doesn’t spend the $ on basketball that other programs do. We have a crappy arena and not a lot of fan support most of the time (not that I blame the fans, the product has been blah for years).

Seems to me program is on the upswing.

Lunardi is not the committee, though, and the "last four in," "first four out" are where the guys like Lunardi are simply guessing.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

I have no idea how anyone looks at our resume and sees a tournament team...and Watkins injury status will be considered.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I have no idea how anyone looks at our resume and sees a tournament team...and Watkins injury status will be considered.

What if we come out and say he's healthy next week?

 

[78SweetRevenge]

What if we come out and say he's healthy next week?

They're not buying it. The odds are that he's done for the year and if he plays he won't be close to 100%

 

[Art]

Uh, I never once said keep Chambers forever. How did you get that from what I wrote? Not sure why you're saying gotcha because you missed the point.

The point is we have bigger problems facing the basketball program than Pat Chambers. For starters our administration isn't going to pay a big name coach the money necessary to make them "want the job".

You think the type of coach that would immediately improve the team is gonna come here for less money than every where else? To shittier facilities? To an administration that's aloof because the program makes money while failing?

You were trolling me, right? You really couldn't have missed what I was saying that badly.

Let me turn this in a somewhat different direction. How is it that we have an administration that appears to be willing to spend a ton of money on sports that have no chance of ever making money, yet isn't willing to spend on a basketball program that has the potential of making considerably more than it does?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Let me turn this in a somewhat different direction. How is it that we have an administration that appears to be willing to spend a ton of money on sports that have no chance of ever making money, yet isn't willing to spend on a basketball program that has the potential of making considerably more than it does?

Because the basketball program subsidizes the money losers.

The basketball program makes millions per year above its cost. They should put all of that money back into the basketball program - or at least the same percentage they put back into football!

This is one area where I do not fault Barbour or the current administration. This is a legacy issue that was handed down from the last group. They need to change it, but that's easier said than done.

The Spanier/Curley regime practically had contempt for their own program.

 

[BobPSU92]

True. He's chronically situationally unaware.

He is not going to be fired after this season.

 

[Sheriff Roy Coffee]

Let me turn this in a somewhat different direction. How is it that we have an administration that appears to be willing to spend a ton of money on sports that have no chance of ever making money, yet isn't willing to spend on a basketball program that has the potential of making considerably more than it does?

We don't know the P&L of PSU basketball. PSU could poor a ton of money into the program and still lose. What saved football is the 100k fans that show up for every game, thick or thin, GaSt or ND, rain or snow, JVP/BO'B/CJF, etc. As PSU competes with B1G schools like tOSU, UM, Indy, Purdue and Sparty these teams all have established programs with histories of championships, success, and NBA superstars. Locally, we compete with Pitt and Villanova for players. They also have a much better history than we do.

PSU can spend a $100m on basketball and get nothing. And, I'd add, NCAA basketball is replete with cheaters. In fact, it is to the point that if you don't get dirty, you don't win. I am not sure PSU wants to sign up for that at this time.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

PSU can spend a $100m on basketball and get nothing.

BS. The problem is that PSU hired two horrible coaches after joining the B1G. It set us back 30 years.

 

[AWS1022]

Yeah. That's true about Wheeler. But overall he's ok. As far as the bench goes, I think Bostick plays too much. He is a year away from contributing and too much of a liability right now.

If the lineup next year is Carr, Reaves, Stevens, Harrar, and Watkins; subbing in Wheeler, Bostick, and Pierce - all with another year of experience - that is extremely solid by PSU standards. I think we are top 3 in the league with that. Chambers needs to go huge in the OOC schedule so he ends up with a top 5 SOS nationally. He needs to create a situation where even with 10 losses the RPI is top 25. And with 5-7 losses we are ranked in the top 15. Unfortunately, if anyone leaves it's not a good scene.

Losing Garner will hurt big time especially if someone else can’t step up as the three point guy.

 

[Sheriff Roy Coffee]

BS. The problem is that PSU hired two horrible coaches after joining the B1G. It set us back 30 years.

Fair enough...PSU should get a sure-fire coach. I hear Rick Patino is available!

That is probably unfair. None of the top flight coaches see PSU being a destination school. When PSU offers and the coach gets a similar offer from St. John, Bonaventure, Illinois, Xavier, Wichita State, UConn, Rhode Island, etc., they take the other offer. PSU has been a career ender for just about any coach hired at PSU in the last 30 years.

PSU has to build the program...that will cost a ton of money....there is no guarantee of success and PSU will have to get dirty. I understand why they are opting to concentrate on football, Hockey, soccer, and Lacrosse.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Losing Garner will hurt big time especially if someone else can’t step up as the three point guy.

Maybe. He didn't consistently look like he even should be starting.

 

[Art]

Because the basketball program subsidizes the money losers.

The basketball program makes millions per year above its cost. They should put all of that money back into the basketball program - or at least the same percentage they put back into football!

This is one area where I do not fault Barbour or the current administration. This is a legacy issue that was handed down from the last group. They need to change it, but that's easier said than done.

The Spanier/Curley regime practically had contempt for their own program.

That doesn't answer my question, but ramble on anyway.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

PSU has to build the program...that will cost a ton of money....there is no guarantee of success and PSU will have to get dirty. I understand why they are opting to concentrate on football, Hockey, soccer, and Lacrosse.

This is so ridiculous. Are all of the Big Ten programs dirty? Do you think Purdue is dirty?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

That doesn't answer my question, but ramble on anyway.

I think it kind of does.

 

[Art]

We don't know the P&L of PSU basketball. PSU could poor a ton of money into the program and still lose. What saved football is the 100k fans that show up for every game, thick or thin, GaSt or ND, rain or snow, JVP/BO'B/CJF, etc. As PSU competes with B1G schools like tOSU, UM, Indy, Purdue and Sparty these teams all have established programs with histories of championships, success, and NBA superstars. Locally, we compete with Pitt and Villanova for players. They also have a much better history than we do.

PSU can spend a $100m on basketball and get nothing. And, I'd add, NCAA basketball is replete with cheaters. In fact, it is to the point that if you don't get dirty, you don't win. I am not sure PSU wants to sign up for that at this time.

Actually we do. For FY 2016, PSU reported net income of roughly $5.4mm for the men's BB program. As a means of comparison, OSU reported nearly twice that.

Remove distributions made by the Big Ten (media rights, NCAA tourney, etc) which are largely the same for both schools and PSU's BB program is underwater by more than $4.5mm. OSU is still profitable. Primary reason: $6mm of ticket sales revenue at OSU versus $822k at PSU.

Impossible to say how much is needed to improve the basketball program to the point where ticket sale revenue is north of paltry. Guessing that a new basketball arena or renovation of the BJC will cost a lot more than $100mm. Again, the question is does PSU put the money here or in sports that will continue to be a drain.

 

[Art]

I think it kind of does.

No it does not. I ask why would the PSU administration put money into sports that will never make money as opposed to one that clearly has the potential to make more. Your answer: because the one that has the potential to make more subsidizes those that never will make anything. At best, your answer is a non-sequitur. I won't go on from there.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Let me turn this in a somewhat different direction. How is it that we have an administration that appears to be willing to spend a ton of money on sports that have no chance of ever making money, yet isn't willing to spend on a basketball program that has the potential of making considerably more than it does?

We don't know the P&L of PSU basketball. PSU could poor a ton of money into the program and still lose. What saved football is the 100k fans that show up for every game, thick or thin, GaSt or ND, rain or snow, JVP/BO'B/CJF, etc. As PSU competes with B1G schools like tOSU, UM, Indy, Purdue and Sparty these teams all have established programs with histories of championships, success, and NBA superstars. Locally, we compete with Pitt and Villanova for players. They also have a much better history than we do.

PSU can spend a $100m on basketball and get nothing. And, I'd add, NCAA basketball is replete with cheaters. In fact, it is to the point that if you don't get dirty, you don't win. I am not sure PSU wants to sign up for that at this time.

Check out this thread on the Penn State hoops page about ROI of coaching salaries. https://forum.pennstatehoops.com/t/coaching-salaries-roi-profit/5319

 

[heckmans]

If Southerners can say y'all, Pittsburghers can say yinz!

No one should say yinz

 

[Art]

Check out this thread on the Penn State hoops page about ROI of coaching salaries. https://forum.pennstatehoops.com/t/coaching-salaries-roi-profit/5319

My, my. I just thank my lucky stars that I get better financial analysis than that.

 

[Bubbas Breakaway]

He is not going to be fired after this season.

With a bit of luck, if he's as great as some think, he might get picked off by Arizona or some other scandal-effected team looking for a clean start. Let's hope.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

No it does not. I ask why would the PSU administration put money into sports that will never make money as opposed to one that clearly has the potential to make more. Your answer: because the one that has the potential to make more subsidizes those that never will make anything. At best, your answer is a non-sequitur. I won't go on from there.

It answers the question. Where would the extra money into basketball come from? From the money they use to subsidize money-losing Olympic sports. It doesn’t come out of nowhere and PSU likes to keep athletics close to self sustaining. There is no formula that says one more dollar into basketball generates x dollars in extra revenue.

 

[Art]

It answers the question. Where would the extra money into basketball come from? From the money they use to subsidize money-losing Olympic sports. It doesn’t come out of nowhere and PSU likes to keep athletics close to self sustaining. There is no formula that says one more dollar into basketball generates x dollars in extra revenue.

Where did I ever ask where the money would come from? You apparently haven't been paying attaention to what's going on in the Athletic Department for the last 2-3 years.

 

[fairgambit]

Check out this thread on the Penn State hoops page about ROI of coaching salaries. https://forum.pennstatehoops.com/t/coaching-salaries-roi-profit/5319

The contrast between the men's and women's numbers are more than I expected.

 

[Art]

The contrast between the men's and women's numbers are more than I expected.

Do you think that over $9mm of Big Ten distributions are allocated to men's basketball and a whopping ZERO to women's BB could have anything to do with that?

 

[Crusher1950]

Pat’s record is horrible, if he was the football coach all of you people would be asking for his ass. This guy has taken us nowhere in 6 years. Playing in the NIT is like kissing you sister

 

[Erial_Lion]

Pat’s record is horrible, if he was the football coach all of you people would be asking for his ass. This guy has taken us nowhere in 6 years. Playing in the NIT is like kissing you sister

Lol at the comparison between PSU football and basketball.

 

[fairgambit]

Do you think that over $9mm of Big Ten distributions are allocated to men's basketball and a whopping ZERO to women's BB could have anything to do with that?

Of course, because no one really cares much about the women's game.

 

[Crusher1950]

Let’s give him another what’s it gonna hurt