Any results from todays wrestle offs?
- Thread starter crazylegs2
- Start date
Skeptical of the shutout scores. Mouse is good on bottom. Did Bo actually ride him out every time on top? If so, that's great for Bo's develop on top.
Didn't get a score, didn't ask. What we know is that Bo definitely won and Cutch is definitely going to attempt to go 197
Exactly. But I still believe that you consider keeping Cutch within descent plan of 184 in case Bo gets dinged.
In others words we have at better chance to win it all with Cutch @184 & Stout/Cassar @197 if Bo gets dinged. I don't think we are as likely with #3 @184 and Cutch @197.
Well Cutch will essentially be wrestling scratch weight if/when he goes up so that won't be an issue
If Cutch could win the 197 spot, I don't think the coaches would keep him as a back-up 184 in the possibility that Bo gets hurt. I don't think that's fair to Cutch or the team.
We're obviously both amused at how this one's played out, Roar, but you've conflated things before too, so I want to address it.
First, this notion that any sharing of any information is a violation of trust is an unfair conflation. I get where you're coming from and that not sharing info you receive is your personal approach because you don't want to violate your relationship with the coaches, but the framing is unfair: somebody choosing another personal approach and deciding to share a piece of info publicly doesn't mean that they have violated someone's trust. For my part, I've taken great care to be respectful and considerate to those from whom I've received 'insider info,' and I've been very careful to avoid violating trust with any of them. So let's be a little less sloppy with such conveyances please ole friend.
Second, now you've got me laughing at this line: "the majority that truly know." Again, I get it in principle. In a vacuum there can be only one truthful score. But it's not hard at all for that score to be disputed--and by different people who watched or wrestled in the match! If I can trace those four different score reports back to three wrestlers and a coach, the notion of some fifth group of elite True Knowers makes me laugh. Strikes me as a little haughty, but it still makes me laugh.
How different people treat insider information is different for each. I understand you're close to the coaches and I get the Info-sharing choices you make because of it. But the nobility is in how each person treats and respects each other inside those choices and through any sharing that takes place, not in scoffing at the way others make their choices. I fully respect your right to make your own choices about info, and I hope my tone doesn't overshadow that.
"Already ruling out him winning the 197 job next year? SMH"
Not ruling him out at all El Jefe. Just pointing out he has options to be the lead sled dog somewhere if that's more important than backing up Bo or risking not making the lineup. More quality bodies than spots is a great problem, but kids have dreams too. Others in this thread are dreaming of increasing the # of slots to 11. I get that Matt is a fan and board favorite. If he wants to be here awesome, if not , he has an option. That's all.
Not ruling him out at all El Jefe. Just pointing out he has options to be the lead sled dog somewhere if that's more important than backing up Bo or risking not making the lineup. More quality bodies than spots is a great problem, but kids have dreams too. Others in this thread are dreaming of increasing the # of slots to 11. I get that Matt is a fan and board favorite. If he wants to be here awesome, if not , he has an option. That's all.
Up to a point. Descent from 197 to 184 takes 5 weeks. He would have to be at 184 sometime in Feb, can't remember the exact date but think it's 2/15. If that's the right date, he would need to start descending by 1/11.
If Bo got hurt, we'd have 5 weeks of duals with Rasheed, Morelli, Brill, or Van Cura holding the fort in duals.
Also, matches at another weight don't count toward seeding at B10s or nationals. So "dinged" isn't enough to drop Mouse (and then have him go back up), would need to be a season-threatening injury.
I mean, we also saw a lot more from Rasheed last year than we did from Stout. And Stout is notedly limited with his offense.
If Cassar ever becomes fully healthy and gets some practice time in, the issue at 197 may be solved for several years.
Board/fan favorite have nothing to do with it. It's about the evidence.
Mouse is a quality D1 wrestler who has beaten several All-Americans and is 3-1 vs. a returning national finalist. And going to 197 should be a minimal adjustment since he wrestled 195 a full season in HS.
Cassar and Stout may get to that level by next fall, but their redshirt folk seasons were not eye-popping. Cassar is coming off 2 shoulder surgeries, and Stout has never wrestled this weight for more than a one-off HS match. From their histories, Mouse is a greater risk to them than they are to him.
And there's always a possibility -- I know, too early to tell -- that Nickal could jump to 197 next year, in which case Mouse would be the odds on favorite for 184.
Presumably next year he'd have the entire offseason to plan which weight he'll be at instead of surprise! the other guy didn't cert as planned.
I don't think he's wired to think he'll lose out to those guys. And I seriously doubt he'll get carefronted by the coaches. So I don't think he'll leave unless he has other career plans for grad school.
...Or they feel/know/decided that a descent to 174 was unsafe, unhealthy, or otherwise too risky.
I can get pretty excited about
Suriano
Cortez
Gullibon
Zain
Nolf
Joseph
Rasheed/Morelli
Nickal
Cutch/Cassar/Stout
Neville
Looks like the best end-to-end lineup to me. If nobody gets hurt, I wouldn't think it would be necessary to pull Hall's redshirt.
Suriano
Cortez
Gullibon
Zain
Nolf
Joseph
Rasheed/Morelli
Nickal
Cutch/Cassar/Stout
Neville
Looks like the best end-to-end lineup to me. If nobody gets hurt, I wouldn't think it would be necessary to pull Hall's redshirt.
It's obvious that Nickal only told Rasheed. Super secret alliance. Team USA vs Team PA
Regarding adding more weight classes, there is another approach that I wish the NCAA would consider. Allow each team to enter TWO wrestlers at each weight in tournaments.
WA state has this rule in place for their state tournament. At first, it seemed pretty odd to me mainly because I had never seen it before. But as I got used to it, the more I liked it. Wrestling is the only sport that I can think of where there is only one lineup and everyone else has to sit on the bench. What do you do when you have someone like Spencer Lee as your starter? The guy behind him might be the 2nd best guy in the state, and he will never get a chance to prove it. In fact, I saw this happen at least twice in WA where two guys from the same team met in the state finals.
I don't see any reason why the NCAA rules could not be modified to adopt a similar approach. If two spots were available on each team, it would do a lot for expanding opportunities in the sport without having to fight the battle of adding (or reinstating) programs.
WA state has this rule in place for their state tournament. At first, it seemed pretty odd to me mainly because I had never seen it before. But as I got used to it, the more I liked it. Wrestling is the only sport that I can think of where there is only one lineup and everyone else has to sit on the bench. What do you do when you have someone like Spencer Lee as your starter? The guy behind him might be the 2nd best guy in the state, and he will never get a chance to prove it. In fact, I saw this happen at least twice in WA where two guys from the same team met in the state finals.
I don't see any reason why the NCAA rules could not be modified to adopt a similar approach. If two spots were available on each team, it would do a lot for expanding opportunities in the sport without having to fight the battle of adding (or reinstating) programs.
True, and anyone who watched their matches saw that Mouse wore a Michelin Man costume at 195 his SR year. Those were his only 2 losses of the year against a pretty good schedule (5 other D1 recruits). Hart then beat Broc Berge at Dapper Dan.
Going back and checking his record, he wrestled his JR year at 195 and 220 before dropping to 182 for the postseason. His only loss of the year was 3-1 to 195 undefeated state champ Perry Hills.
Size disparity aside I can picture Cutch pulling off a win against every single 197 lb. guy out there with the exception of Cox. I can also picture him losing to about 10 other guys, but an AA finish at 197 is not far fetched. 184 is such a better weight class when the two weights are compared that it surprises me that a couple more of the bigger 184 guys aren't going 197. I won't be in the least bit surprised if cutch pulls off a low AA finish at 197; I will be more surprised if he doesn't. JMO
I also think Bo goes 197 next year and cruises to a national title at 197. The weight just doesn't have a guy of his skill level once Cox is done. I would pick Bo to make the finals and lose to Cox this year.
I also think Bo goes 197 next year and cruises to a national title at 197. The weight just doesn't have a guy of his skill level once Cox is done. I would pick Bo to make the finals and lose to Cox this year.
Perry Hills name may sound familiar. He is currently the starting QB for Maryland.
I see a 4-3 type match here, but Pfarr is not offensive enough to create a safe lead against Cutch imo. I agree Pfarr would be the favorite, but he is no sure thing. Bo would beat him right now. PD3 should have stayed up at 197 where he was an undersized AA last year. He isn't much bigger or better than Cutch no matter what he says.
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Exactly. If he's certed @174, he's not going to be a full sized 197. Even if he floats to 189 or so weigh in, he's only 3 week descent to 184 if needed. Adding a few pounds beyond a 189-190 weigh in won't likely make him any more effective.
I like him, and was hoping this went a little differently.
Rules question. If MM wrestles a match at 197 this year (no matter what he weighs), he cannot go 174 at all after that match. Is that the rule, you cannot go down 2 classes?
No. In 2012, Matt Brown spot-started at 197 on 2/3 and 2/5, and then started at 174 on 2/11.
Mark Hall and Monty Hall are actually very similar: Except what is behind doors number one, two, and three, in the case of Mark Hall, are usually pain inducing, body contorting, freakishly impossible to defend, wrestling moves that put the contestant on his back....instead of a new car or boat.
Makes more sense for MM to go up than down. At 174, you have Geno/Shakur to wrestle with Hall as an emergency option. If one of the starters is injured, you could ask Bo to drop and fill the gap. That's 3 - 4 guys that could man 174 without throwing MM into the mix. However, at 197 you have Cassar who is injured and should not be rushed back given his history of shoulder problems and Stout as the other option. This gives more competition at a shallower depth. And MM could descend if necessary.
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Without looking it up I believe it's not the weight you wrestle at but what you weigh in at. If you weigh in at over 184 then you cannot wrestle 174 the rest of the season and in any case you always have the descent rules you need to abide by.
In the case El-Jefe notes, Matt weighed in at or below 174, but wrestled 197. If a wrestler weighs in 2 weight classes higher, they cannot return. Using E-J's example...if Matt had weighed 190 at the scale...he can't return.
As an aside, the only weight class with a minimum weigh-in weight is 285 (must be 183 to wrestle heavyweight). A wrestler weighing in at 125 could actually wrestle 197 (most extreme case).
