Are the Penguins better off Trading Marc Andre Fleury or letting him go to Vegas?

[GreggK]

I have been pretty solid in the trade camp for awhile now, but, I am starting to lean towards just letting him go. Reason being because that immediately free's up a ton of cap space, 5.75 million. That allows you to keep who you want with money if you have to.

It also allows you to go out and pick and choose which free agents you might want. Surely there will be older players who just want to win a cup. Possible targets?

TJ Oshie - I can see him fitting in very well with the Pens
Alexander Radulov - Not sure he wants to leave, but if so, his speed would be perfect for the pens
Joe Thornton - old so maybe cheap and wants a cup
Shattenkirk will be available but I don't think we could afford him

If we traded to Calgary, who could we get?
My pick would be Michael Frolik

 

[bjf1991]

I have been pretty solid in the trade camp for awhile now, but, I am starting to lean towards just letting him go. Reason being because that immediately free's up a ton of cap space, 5.75 million. That allows you to keep who you want with money if you have to.

It also allows you to go out and pick and choose which free agents you might want. Surely there will be older players who just want to win a cup. Possible targets?

TJ Oshie - I can see him fitting in very well with the Pens
Alexander Radulov - Not sure he wants to leave, but if so, his speed would be perfect for the pens
Joe Thornton - old so maybe cheap and wants a cup
Shattenkirk will be available but I don't think we could afford him

If we traded to Calgary, who could we get?
My pick would be Michael Frolik

The rules and regs wrt the Entry Draft for Vegas are as clear as mud....... but:

I think the Pens HAVE TO make available at least one Goalie with "X" games of experience.

If they trade Fleury before the draft, I think the only Goalie they have who fits the criteria is Murray - - - which, if the above is true, is something they sure wouldn't want to do.

So - I think they need to keep him until the entry draft (during which time he may or may not be taken by Vegas), and then, if he is not taken, trade him after the entry draft

The importance of having Fluery waive his "no trade" is that all "no trade" guys HAVE TO be protected by their current team........ so if MAF didn't waive that right, the Pens would have had to protect him - and, again, the Pens would have had to make Murray available

MAF was - once again - the ultimate "team player" in agreeing to the waiver of his "no trade"


But....... I could be all wet - 'cause I haven't examined those rules that closely

 

[CF LION]

Is it a given that Vegas would take Fleury? If I understand the draft rules, every team can protect only one goalie, and Vegas has to select three.

Are there three goalies that would be better than Fleury?

 

[GreggK]

It says that they can protect one goalie, Murray and have to make one available.

iii) One goaltender who is under contract in 2017-18 or will be a restricted free agent at the expiration of his current contract immediately prior to 2017-18. If the club elects to make a restricted free agent goaltender available in order to meet this requirement, that goaltender must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the club's protected list.

It doesn't say anything about how many games they have to play. So I would think that we could just make Tristan Jarry or Sean Maguire available. Neither of which I think that Vegas will go after.

 

[GreggK]

This Sporting News article lists three goalies, none of which are Marc Andre Fleury.
But if they can pick three, they would be stupid to not take Fleury even if they didn't want them and then immediately flip him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/new...bauer-antti-raanta/12ce53m7s4bd01n61a3z6h35vm

 

[bjf1991]

Is it a given that Vegas would take Fleury? If I understand the draft rules, every team can protect only one goalie, and Vegas has to select three.

Are there three goalies that would be better than Fleury?

I doubt if they would...... I think they will find a more intriguing selection (for them) from among the unprotected Penguin skaters

 

[VaNtyLion]

One way or another, they're going to get something for Fluery. I think the argument could be made the 5+ million in cap space may be more valuable than what could be immediately realized in a trade.

My best case scenario though is they ship MAF and Maata to Winnipeg in a deal that sends Trouba to Pittsburgh. The biggest need for this team in the off-season is going to be help in the top 4 on their blue line. Letang's health and durability is a big concern going forward. Need to sign Schultz and seriously consider locking up Dumoulin for 3-4 years each.

Forward wise, they're in excellent shape but should look into a viable 3rd line center since Bonino will likely move on in free agency. It's possible Sundqvist is that guy and will likely see from Sprong and Aston-Reese cracking the lineup, which makes them younger and faster across the board.

 

[bjf1991]

It says that they can protect one goalie, Murray and have to make one available.

iii) One goaltender who is under contract in 2017-18 or will be a restricted free agent at the expiration of his current contract immediately prior to 2017-18. If the club elects to make a restricted free agent goaltender available in order to meet this requirement, that goaltender must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the club's protected list.

It doesn't say anything about how many games they have to play. So I would think that we could just make Tristan Jarry or Sean Maguire available. Neither of which I think that Vegas will go after.

The regs also state that all players w 2 or fewer years of Professional experience are automatically on the "protected list"

Does Pittsburgh have any goalies under contract with more than 2 years of pro experience? (Aside from MAF and Murray)

I think the only guys the Pens have under contract are MAF, Murray, and Jarry...... and I think Jarry only has two years professional experience....... and if you have to expose one "under contract" goalie, who does that leave if you can't "expose" MAF? (unless they acquire some other "exposable" goalie via trade)

Again, the NHL regs for the draft are very convoluted.
I have seen "reports" from different outlets that state completely contradictory information.

 

[bjf1991]

So I would think that we could just make Tristan Jarry or Sean Maguire available. Neither of which I think that Vegas will go after.

FWIW:
If that were the case there would have been no need to go through the gymnastics of getting MAF to waive his "no trade"

 

[NittanyLogan'11]

I don't understand why Murray is not exempt. The draft rules state that players with 2 or fewer years of NHL experience are not eligible for the expansion draft. Murray was still classified as a rookie as of Sunday night. What am I missing?

 

[bjf1991]

I don't understand why Murray is not exempt. The draft rules state that players with 2 or fewer years of NHL experience are not eligible for the expansion draft. Murray was still classified as a rookie as of Sunday night. What am I missing?

I've seen that "NHL Experience" quoted in several articles (as I mentioned before, a lot of the reporters certainly have this shit wrong).

I know that is wrong (even though it has been oft-repeated).....it is:

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE.......which includes time in the AHL (Wilkes Barre)

Including his time there - - - three years of PRO experience

 

[PSU-CPA]

I don't understand why Murray is not exempt. The draft rules state that players with 2 or fewer years of NHL experience are not eligible for the expansion draft. Murray was still classified as a rookie as of Sunday night. What am I missing?

It is two years as a professional not two years in the NHL.

Seems to me the risk is do you trade Fleury for a token pick(4th round say) or keep him and hope Vegas takes him. That allows them to keep someone like Dumoulin who Vegas might take instead of Fleury.

 

[BBHorn86]

One way or another, they're going to get something for Fluery. I think the argument could be made the 5+ million in cap space may be more valuable than what could be immediately realized in a trade.

My best case scenario though is they ship MAF and Maata to Winnipeg in a deal that sends Trouba to Pittsburgh. The biggest need for this team in the off-season is going to be help in the top 4 on their blue line. Letang's health and durability is a big concern going forward. Need to sign Schultz and seriously consider locking up Dumoulin for 3-4 years each.

Forward wise, they're in excellent shape but should look into a viable 3rd line center since Bonino will likely move on in free agency. It's possible Sundqvist is that guy and will likely see from Sprong and Aston-Reese cracking the lineup, which makes them younger and faster across the board.

I would prefer they find a way to keep Bonino. He is as good as it gets as a number 3 center at both end of the rink.

 

[bjf1991]

It is two years as a professional not two years in the NHL.

Seems to me the risk is do you trade Fleury for a token pick(4th round say) or keep him and hope Vegas takes him. That allows them to keep someone like Dumoulin who Vegas might take instead of Fleury.

As I mentioned before - I think it's "relatively" clear from the entry draft regs that the PENS HAVE TO keep Fleury, and expose him in the draft, at least until after the entry draft (unless they acquire some other exposable Goalie)........ or else they would have to expose Murray.

That seems to be the case - even though I wouldn't bet the mortgage money on it

 

[kgilbert78]

This Sporting News article lists three goalies, none of which are Marc Andre Fleury.
But if they can pick three, they would be stupid to not take Fleury even if they didn't want them and then immediately flip him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/new...bauer-antti-raanta/12ce53m7s4bd01n61a3z6h35vm

They didn't even mention Korporsalo, who I think is a possible choice. So I'm not sure about this article. The reality is that this is one of the fairest drafts in a long time--for the expansion team. Most teams will lose someone they would rather not lose.

 

[NealPaige]

That article made no mention of Neuvirth. I know McPhee likes him a lot, having drafted him in Washington. He's got an attractive cap hit (2.5 mill), but he's always hurt.

As a diehard Flyers fan, I loathe the Penguins. But congrats Pens fans, I'm jealous and respect what your team has accomplished.

 

[VaNtyLion]

I would prefer they find a way to keep Bonino. He is as good as it gets as a number 3 center at both end of the rink.

Biggest issue with Bones is that he will get a lot more on open market than what Pens can afford. He was a huge bargain at 2.1 mil but would figure to double that and want term since this age is his best bargaining position for a 4 year deal this year.


Analytics would tell us that from a defensive standpoint, Bonino is a very average player. But 37 pts for a 3rd line center is decent production so need to look into potential of next best option. I look at a player like Sundqvist and see a need to get him a regular spot and know what you have. 3rd line centers are not pieces you overpay for and they have enough PK specialists that that void is a non-issue.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

As I mentioned before - I think it's "relatively" clear from the entry draft regs that the PENS HAVE TO keep Fleury, and expose him in the draft, at least until after the entry draft (unless they acquire some other exposable Goalie)........ or else they would have to expose Murray.

That seems to be the case - even though I wouldn't bet the mortgage money on it

I think that is the case. In any event, MAF waived his no-movement clause today (per Dave Molinari beat writer for the P-G) so it's a moot point. He'll go to LV.

Someone else mentioned they hoped we could keep Bonino. I agree, but isn't he a free agent? Might not be enough cash available for him. Boy I'd love to sign Shattenkirk, but I think it's a foregone conclusion he's going to the NYR for a Fort Knox contract.

 

[bjf1991]

I think that is the case. In any event, MAF waived his no-movement clause today (per Dave Molinari beat writer for the P-G) so it's a moot point. He'll go to LV.

Someone else mentioned they hoped we could keep Bonino. I agree, but isn't he a free agent? Might not be enough cash available for him. Boy I'd love to sign Shattenkirk, but I think it's a foregone conclusion he's going to the NYR for a Fort Knox contract.

Bonino is an unrestricted FA, so they'd have to compete in the open market for him

I'll be surprised if LV selects MAF...... but who knows, I'm sure a lot will depend on how all the other protected lists play out


One real nice thing - - the Pens are already in very good "cap space" territory
If they do move (or lose) MAF, that adds another 5 or 6 mill.

They should have plenty of $$$ available to address their needs - either with re-signing the restricted guys (Sheary, Dumi, and Schultz) or getting a couple guys on the open market

 

[Bessmoney]

The Pens can trade Fleury to Vegas for a low draft pick (say 6th round) and/or getting Vegas to agree to not select any of the Pens' other players in the expansion draft.

I think if anyone is selected, it will be Ian Cole. He is a very solid defenseman at only $2.1M per year and has 2 years left on his contract. But in all likelihood, the Pens will try to push trading Fleury. They need to free up his $5.75M and give that money to Schultz and Dumoulin. I don't see them re-signing Daley. He definitely lost a step this past year skating wise and he's hurt a fair amount.

Will be interesting to see what guys like Cullen, Kunitz and Hainsey do. You would think it's a foregone conclusion that both Cullen and Kunitz may retire after going back-to-back, but I also think these guys really love being a part of this team. If they can get one more year out of Cullen, they can probably let Bones walk and have Sundqvist take over the 4th line center duties. Bonino has scored some MONSTER goals these last two cup runs....will suck to lose him for that alone, but I agree, it is possible to duplicate his production. Will also be interesting to see how the Center from Northeastern fits into their plans. Kid is a great two way player.

 

[bjf1991]

The Pens can trade Fleury to Vegas for a low draft pick (say 6th round) and/or getting Vegas to agree to not select any of the Pens' other players in the expansion draft.

I think if anyone is selected, it will be Ian Cole. He is a very solid defenseman at only $2.1M per year and has 2 years left on his contract. But in all likelihood, the Pens will try to push trading Fleury. They need to free up his $5.75M and give that money to Schultz and Dumoulin. I don't see them re-signing Daley. He definitely lost a step this past year skating wise and he's hurt a fair amount.

Will be interesting to see what guys like Cullen, Kunitz and Hainsey do. You would think it's a foregone conclusion that both Cullen and Kunitz may retire after going back-to-back, but I also think these guys really love being a part of this team. If they can get one more year out of Cullen, they can probably let Bones walk and have Sundqvist take over the 4th line center duties. Bonino has scored some MONSTER goals these last two cup runs....will suck to lose him for that alone, but I agree, it is possible to duplicate his production. Will also be interesting to see how the Center from Northeastern fits into their plans. Kid is a great two way player.

I think LV HAS TO select a player from every team. I think the only thing that voids that is if LV signs a FREE AGENT from that club.

I don't think that can be "voided" by acquiring a player in a trade (but I'm not 100%)

 

[androcles]

...any possibility that any/some of their highest paid players - Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, or Letang agree to restructure their contracts to make some $$$s available to keep a couple of their free agents?...

 

[bjf1991]

...any possibility that any/some of their highest paid players - Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, or Letang agree to restructure their contracts to make some $$$s available to keep a couple of their free agents?...

They don't need to.

They are in great cap shape..... they have managed their salary structures very well


They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did that

 

[CappyToCJF]

They won't sign Thornton. Too slow for the Pens game. He's a slow motion player.

If they get value for Fleury they could acquire another goalie that meets criteria for draft exposure. Lots of out of league or almost gone goalies looking for a days work...

 

[CappyToCJF]

...any possibility that any/some of their highest paid players - Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, or Letang agree to restructure their contracts to make some $$$s available to keep a couple of their free agents?...

No.

 

[Thorndike2012]

We just can't lose Cole and Shultz must be signed. Our biggest issues are on the blue line. Letang will be back...but for how long? Dumelin played a great finals, he must be signed as well. Most of you know how I feel about Maata...I would trade him for a warm six pack of Iron City.

Bonino is one of our top face off guys. We need to be better on face offs. Sid is a great player...but he's subpar on face offs. Malkin is worse. Cullen and Bonino are two of the team's best at face offs. I agree that we will probably not be able to afford Bonino going forward. I think Aston-Reese may be the better option over Sundquist, but what do I know? Which of those two guys are best at face offs? I have no idea.

As for free agents...we need a top four defense man.

As for goalies...Jarry is a capable back up to Murray. But who else is in the pipeline if Murray goes down again?

 

[redbyrds]

Prefer Vegas takes him. If not we could lose either Doumolin or Cole as at least one has to be left available.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

We just can't lose Cole and Shultz must be signed. Our biggest issues are on the blue line. Letang will be back...but for how long? Dumelin played a great finals, he must be signed as well. Most of you know how I feel about Maata...I would trade him for a warm six pack of Iron City.

Bonino is one of our top face off guys. We need to be better on face offs. Sid is a great player...but he's subpar on face offs. Malkin is worse. Cullen and Bonino are two of the team's best at face offs. I agree that we will probably not be able to afford Bonino going forward. I think Aston-Reese may be the better option over Sundquist, but what do I know? Which of those two guys are best at face offs? I have no idea.

As for free agents...we need a top four defense man.

As for goalies...Jarry is a capable back up to Murray. But who else is in the pipeline if Murray goes down again?

Jarry is going to be an NHL starter someday. Saw him play this year for WBS, and it was very apparent why the organization is so high on him. He'll either surpass Murray (not likely) or make good trade bait down the road, but in the meantime, he'll be a great backup to #30.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

We just can't lose Cole and Shultz must be signed. Our biggest issues are on the blue line. Letang will be back...but for how long? Dumelin played a great finals, he must be signed as well. Most of you know how I feel about Maata...I would trade him for a warm six pack of Iron City.

Bonino is one of our top face off guys. We need to be better on face offs. Sid is a great player...but he's subpar on face offs. Malkin is worse. Cullen and Bonino are two of the team's best at face offs. I agree that we will probably not be able to afford Bonino going forward. I think Aston-Reese may be the better option over Sundquist, but what do I know? Which of those two guys are best at face offs? I have no idea.

As for free agents...we need a top four defense man.

As for goalies...Jarry is a capable back up to Murray. But who else is in the pipeline if Murray goes down again?

I hear your concern with Maatta and it's legitimate. I'm just very hesitant to bail on a 22-year old dman with some offensive potential. Myself I like a D pairing of Letang and Maatta/Dumo and Schultz. Cole (need to resign) can be the 5th defenseman. Daily and Hainsey I believe will be going on their way, along with Streit, (who cares?). There will be plenty of time available for anyone who can take it (looking at you, Ruhwedel). I think D is where the Pens need to make a big-time FA move.

Sean Maguire is the goaltender behind Jarry. I'd like to get a veteran journeyman, stash him at W-B behind Maguire next year and have Murray and Jarry in Pittsburgh.

Sundquist hasn't set me on fire, but he's only 23 and I love that he's a big guy. He's bigger than Malkin.

Ah, the endless problems that come with being back-to-back World Champions!

 

[TheGLOV]