And then take whatever you do have in repayment if it’s not protected properly.
Are you comfortable with where you are financially? This site shows you where you are relative to peers (90th percentile, median, etc.).
- Thread starter EdwardoCarrachio
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A nursing-home stay is $9k/month and up, I'm told. More if you need lots of medical care. The stat I saw was 3.2 years with 20 percent at 5 years or more. So that will cover maybe 17-18 percent.
Downsizing can be expensive. I know several people who sold the 3,500 sq ft two story home they bought for $200k and got $500k. Then they bought a single story 2,500 retirement home for $700k (or $1.5 million in Florida). Of course it's a different story if you're selling in San Francisco and moving to North Dakota.
My wife and I visit a local nursing home once a week to pray with residents who wish to join us and it's a thoroughly depressing environment. I mean, this place is probably middle-of-the-road quality as these things are measured, but it's still little more than a warehouse for old, debilitated, and/or dying people. The American way of dying I guess but a high price to pay for the privilege of getting old.
On the other hand, it's not an inevitable destination. We visited an elderly woman (early 90s) at home last month to bring her Communion from our church. She lived in a nice home in a nice neighborhood and was sharp as a tack but her lungs had taken some serious hits from a couple bouts of Covid. She told us she had several children who look in on her regularly. Turns out it was the last time she ever received Communion. I was supposed to return tomorrow morning, but we just learned she died suddenly a few days ago. God rest her soul.
Personally, I think it'd be nice to make it into old age with your mind and wits about you...and your body mostly functional...and then just have it end with a heart attack or something. Maybe a disease of some sort that gives you plenty of notice and allows you to prepare. But please God, not in a nursing home. OK, well these are just some cheery thoughts to start your weekend...
I was just talking about medical costs. You're correct that assisted living and nursing homes are a completely different story.
I think assisted living costs $60k - $70k per year and that can go on for a long time. The good news is that it covers meals, utilities, transportation, etc. If you own a $500k home you could sell it and cover those costs for quite some time. If you spend down other assets Medicaid will pay for your assisted living and they won't make you sell your house. I think a large percentage of low income seniors in assisted living have Medicaid pay the cost.
I think nursing homes cost at least $120k per year but people don't usually last there for very long. You're correct end of life care can drain your savings in a hurry. You can buy long term care insurance but the premiums are very high. Insurance companies don't intend to lose money so it's just a matter of pay now or pay later.
In the old days parents who couldn't care for themselves would move in with one of their kids. That's more difficult if the kids are working.
Location is key. If you go from high-cost state to low or nice burb of a major city to further out, then you are likely going to cash out higher and live cheaper at the new place. But you are correct that it may not always play out the way people anticipate financially.
For one, right now a mortgage payment on $400k loan is $2722 when less than 4 years ago it was $2062.
Secondly, a home that required a $400k loan (20% down) less than 4 years ago actually requires a $520,000 loan (20% down) to buy today. The same exact house!
So the same exact home now requires a mortgage payment of $3207 today when it would have only been $2062 less than 4 years ago. That's a 55.5% increase in just the mortgage payment in less than 4 years!
So yes, downsizing right now may be a huge risk. You can mitigate that somewhat if you can buy the new house in cash to eliminate the still very, very high mortgage interest rates.
The worst thing was when people in assisted living and nursing homes were barred from having visitors during covid. Like you said it's not a fun environment and no visitors and no ability to be taken out for dinner made it much worse.
True that mortgage rates are much higher now but I assume most older people will pay cash. I wouldn't want to be 70 years old with a mortgage and a lot of banks won't give a mortgage to retired people anyway because they don't have a steady income stream. My point was that the cost to build a new 2,500 sq ft home if often greater than what you could sell a 30 year old 3.500 sq ft home for (unless you're moving from a high cost to a low cost market).
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We visited my grandmother in an assisted living place pretty frequently when it became too difficult for her to live with my aunt. She had macular degeneration and became legally blind, plus Alzheimer's. It became too much for my aunt who had her own medical issues.
This was a pretty nice place overall and they did try to do activities with the residents (bingo, trivia, silver sneakers exercise, nail and hair services, service dogs including our own that we had gotten certified visited regularly, etc.). Even still, it was incredibly sad. The residents mostly sat and waited for things because they didn't communicate well with each other, if at all. Too many issues for them to hold a conversation with each other unless you would mediate it for them (hearing, cognitive, etc.).
If I make it to those ages, I might prefer to just struggle with everyday activities in my own home and pass there. Who knows what the plan is for each of us, but it was hard to leave knowing what life was like in the assisted living place.
One of my neighbor's parents were doing exactly this a little over year ago. They sold and were building close by our neighborhood to be near their grandkids. Well, the cost of their house skyrocketed while it was being built. I suppose there was a clause in their contract that if materials rose greater than a certain percentage that they would be on the hook (which is reasonable for a builder to protect themselves).
Well with inflation going nuts in 2022 and staying way too high since, the price of their new house was going up by many thousands weekly. They really had to dig a lot more into savings to make it happen.
I waited a while on purpose to post this- wanted to see where things went re: the education side. Bison touched on it- but I'll share some things that PA has actually done right of late.
About 5 or so years ago the Commonwealth mandated that every public school student must take a course called Career Readiness in order to graduate. There is latitude for each district to implement as they see fit- but 8 pieces of State Madated evidence must be captured in electronic form in case of transfer or PDE audit.
I happen to teach this course and I love it. We schedule it during 9th grade so that I can help kids explore their future careers while also guiding them into our electives and tech options starting as early as 10th grade.
Freshmen tend to still be pretty immature- even more so post Covid- but the basics of picking careers, determining entry level and median future salary, along with the education requirements (AND ACCRUING DEBT to do so) is something I wish we had back in the day.
We teach the 50/30/20 rule along with a 39 slide budgeting exercise where they take the starting pay of a selected career and budget everything from finding an actual apartment from Apartments.com in a place they want to live, along with utilities, insurance, transportation, savings and retirement savings, down to dining out, gym memberships, education loans and "wants."
There is a 2nd mandate that was voted in 2 years ago and must be implemented by the 25-26 school year: Personal Finance. This may be implemented via a Math or Business Department. It should go deeper into the budgeting stuff and also include ways to invest.
Our school has a very popular investing 101 elective- but only 60 or so kids take it due to sectioning each year. Hopefully it becomes part of the 10th grade schedule as Freshmen already have 1 mandate and frankly the numbers are just not relevant yet. Ideally this would be a Junior or Senior course- but the way our schedule currently works there is not a way to slot another requirement. We also need to leave time for kids who do not pass to re-take since it will be a grad req.
Our offerings are far from perfect, but I feel that we do a very good job. We'll see how the Personal Finance rolls out. But rest maybe a little easier guys- the state hears you and is actually taking some positive steps.
About 5 or so years ago the Commonwealth mandated that every public school student must take a course called Career Readiness in order to graduate. There is latitude for each district to implement as they see fit- but 8 pieces of State Madated evidence must be captured in electronic form in case of transfer or PDE audit.
I happen to teach this course and I love it. We schedule it during 9th grade so that I can help kids explore their future careers while also guiding them into our electives and tech options starting as early as 10th grade.
Freshmen tend to still be pretty immature- even more so post Covid- but the basics of picking careers, determining entry level and median future salary, along with the education requirements (AND ACCRUING DEBT to do so) is something I wish we had back in the day.
We teach the 50/30/20 rule along with a 39 slide budgeting exercise where they take the starting pay of a selected career and budget everything from finding an actual apartment from Apartments.com in a place they want to live, along with utilities, insurance, transportation, savings and retirement savings, down to dining out, gym memberships, education loans and "wants."
There is a 2nd mandate that was voted in 2 years ago and must be implemented by the 25-26 school year: Personal Finance. This may be implemented via a Math or Business Department. It should go deeper into the budgeting stuff and also include ways to invest.
Our school has a very popular investing 101 elective- but only 60 or so kids take it due to sectioning each year. Hopefully it becomes part of the 10th grade schedule as Freshmen already have 1 mandate and frankly the numbers are just not relevant yet. Ideally this would be a Junior or Senior course- but the way our schedule currently works there is not a way to slot another requirement. We also need to leave time for kids who do not pass to re-take since it will be a grad req.
Our offerings are far from perfect, but I feel that we do a very good job. We'll see how the Personal Finance rolls out. But rest maybe a little easier guys- the state hears you and is actually taking some positive steps.
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I work at a school in Virginia and Econ/Personal Finance has been a requirement for a long time. But I really, really wish we had that investing elective. I feel like the tech/AI stocks and crypto have made even teenagers really interested in investing, but so many of them don't know the first thing about it.
My colleague is a fellow PSU grad and he had his own trading firm for 15 years. That class keeps him working- we are very fortunate to have a legit entrepreneur- who has experienced the highs and lows of actually trading- teaching the kids.
One thing they wouldn't think of- and maybe things are different now with tech- but my guy would not go to the bathroom during the trading day on the Philly Stock Exchange- for fear of missing something.
Neat/ real insight for kids to ponder : )
Selling in one of the most expensive cities in the country and moving to a less expensive city. And probably not actually downsizing.
But your point is a good one.
Never measure yourself against anybody else. Set your own standards and be a giver. My income is about twenty eight hundred dollars a month and I live in one of the best retirement communities in America I tithe ten percent plus give five percent more to various charities. Every year I increase my giving by one percent of my income. I am a care give her twenty 47 and do it for nothing. I allow my family to live in my home rent free.Nearly half of American households have no retirement savings
How do your savings compare?usafacts.org
Whether you are or are not where you would like to be right now, do you have a viable plan/strategy? Are there things that you are looking to change/improve? What goals have you have set and what steps are you taking to achieve them?
I wish you all great success, even those of you who like to argue with or attack me personally. My personal view is that it is great to learn from others no matter who they might be. IMO you have to be humble enough to listen to everyone's views even if you disagree with them. Sometimes those that you don't expect offer thoughts that you have never considered that may just change your outlook. Thank you to those who are willing to share their personal experiences (successes and mistakes), expertise, and strategies.
Every month.
I have about one thousand dollars disposable income. I have no stocks or other income, and my only worth is my home wor5hb about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
My experience is that when you give tonothers through faith in Chist, God returns much much more to you in peace of mind and in other areas.
Mary,
I agree with much of the sentiment but also value benchmarking and understand that my helping others is only possible if I am in a position of strength (financially, physically, mentally, etc.). And the stronger I am, the greater opportunities I have to help and to give.
For example, I don't measure against others. I never purchase to keep up with the Jones's. I am not envious of what others have. I actually don't have many material desires. It is part of how I was able from an early age to put 50% into investments. That in turn has helped me to retire early (at age 43) when my mother's breast cancer returned, a large tumor grew on her brachial plexus causing very bad nerve pain and taking away use of her left arm.
Because I sacrificed early in life and invested well, I was able to retire and come home. I spent a lot of time with her and dad. After a couple of years, her condition became so challenging that I moved in temporarily with them. I knew it was time when I her and dad went down when he was trying to transfer her to her wheelchair. It was hard for my wife and I, but it was where I needed to be.
3 months after she passed, dad had a stroke and lost all use of his left side as the motor control center of his brain on the right side had significant neuron death due to the brain bleed. This was also shortly after his 2nd covid shot. But I suspect the biggest culprit was that he wasn't sleeping 2 to 3 nights a week. He had been with mom since they were teenagers. He hid his depression well from us but after the stroke it was obvious. He had everything taken from him it seemed, his wife, his left side.
Early in his in-patient rehab, I stayed with him on an army cot for a couple of weeks when he was unable to move that left side at all and they hadn't honed in on the right combo of meds for him to be able to sleep consistently. Then they kicked me out after he got covid (the whole floor had it by that time). But once he got his first voluntary movement in his thumb, he worked very hard. He went from not being able to stay upright in a wheelchair to today he can walk without assistance for short distances and can do about a half mile with a walker.
I learned quite a bit over this time from dad teaching me that you can seemingly lose it all and still battle back to understanding that I could only be where I needed to be for my family because I had put myself in the position to drop everything and be fully retired (minus self-managing rental properties).
I don't disagree with you that you should not measure against others and rather against yourself. But benchmarking to understand if you are on pace for your goals is very healthy IMO. It is a part of self-awareness. You want to be better than you were the day before. Of course, others should not influence you to do something that you don't believe is right for you. But if you want to influence others, increase your giving, be in a position to help others, then it is best to be in a position of strength.
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I might sell my 80s baseball card collection and my WWF LJN figures. I wonder how much my .50 piece collection is worth 🤔
I looked back at mine and my most expensive cards aren't even baseball. It's my half a dozen Jerry Rice rookie cards. Glad that guy still has the record.
Turning 40 this year and didn't really start any retirement savings until I hit 30. I'm above the medium quite a bit on all the charts, but not at the 90% on any of them either, although pretty close in some cases. I could have done better in my 20s looking back, but I also killed all my college debt before I turned 30 and bought a house at 30. So things worked out alright for me so far since the house has over doubled in value since then and I put 12% of my salary into retirement to make it well over the medium now and to the point of feeling a bit more comfortable.
I think the biggest factor in not being in a worse financial situation though is not having any children.
As for retirement itself, I get the feeling most people my age are going to work until they die or medically can't. I often wonder though, if I would even want to retire. I feel I would get bored. I doubt I'll have the money and physical ability to just do whatever I want over the age of 65 so might as well enjoy some of the experiences in life now as long as it doesn't put me into a financial burden. (heading to Red Rocks soon for a couple concerts!)
I think the biggest factor in not being in a worse financial situation though is not having any children.
As for retirement itself, I get the feeling most people my age are going to work until they die or medically can't. I often wonder though, if I would even want to retire. I feel I would get bored. I doubt I'll have the money and physical ability to just do whatever I want over the age of 65 so might as well enjoy some of the experiences in life now as long as it doesn't put me into a financial burden. (heading to Red Rocks soon for a couple concerts!)
Good on you for ramping up once your 20s was over. You are likely in a totally different position today as a result.
I feel like life's about finding the right balance. While I sacrificed a good bit early and really hustled, I also have enjoyed life. Seems like you have found that balance. And you never know what life has in store for you so I like having the means to overcome if it sends me a curveball.
For some I suppose retirement just isn't going to be in the cards. If they start too late or have a major change to income/health/etc. More and more if inflation remains very high. That is a retirement killer.
I get the sentiment on not knowing if you would take to retired life. I wasn't sure either. I retired at 41 and thought I still needed to do something, so I taught at a private school for a couple of years. And while I am glad that I did, I tried being retired, retired at 43 and have loved it. I can be where my family needs me and hike and kayak with the wife, take trips and go to the grocery store at non-peak times, etc. Plus, I have more time for family, friends, working out, and hobbies.
What is wrong with some of you (@Hawkeybrokenglasses69) that are so triggered by knowing that someone has different political ideas than you (not even posted in this thread) that you put laugh emojis on posts predominantly about someone's mom dying of breast cancer and father having a stroke?
These are the types of things that give people less faith in humanity. Seriously, there are people out there so disgusting that they will laugh at this type of thing. This Hawkey poster is less than human.
These are the types of things that give people less faith in humanity. Seriously, there are people out there so disgusting that they will laugh at this type of thing. This Hawkey poster is less than human.
Every time I see and article intitled - I retired at 35 - it's always DINKS (Duel Income No Kids). When we had out kids I paid zero to the hospital now I know for most it's like $10K. Kids will cost you at least $1M per to raise and get them through college. So if we were DINKS I would already be on a beach somewhere but it was our choice to have kids and no regrets. You are doing things 100% right - save and invest in real estate - you are better off than even most people near or at retirement age right now which is scary. We have all out ducks in a row as well but I don't mind my job and work from home so in no real rush to retire.
What are you expecting from someone who has 69 as part of their handle…
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I love reading your fairy tales about your life, Edwardo. Keep it up.
Place anything that you seek to protect in the non-revocable trust. After 5 years, it is not considered yours and cannot be taken in repayment by the gov't.
There always was a #69 on every IM or Rec League team....typically all the same type of player and (presumably) person.
Often the name "Shlong" accompanies said digits...
Raised 2 children sending them through private schools. Still working part-time (age soon to be 67). Will work to 70. Wife is 6.5 years younger and her job does not offer health insurance. Another big issue is that her employment never offered a 401k either. We will be able to retire and maintain the lifestyle that we are comfortable with. A bit of travel, but we like being home. We are going to Ireland this fall. If were were Dinks, yes we would have been retired now but would have missed out on our 2 and more to come grandchildren. Also, our married daughter and her husband treat us as royalty. The only thing I would have liked to have been able to change would have been a 401k plan at my wife's employment (that would have possibly been another $400-$500 in the retirement pot).
One more thing, it took me a long time for me to get my wife to realize that we need to save for retirement.
One more thing, it took me a long time for me to get my wife to realize that we need to save for retirement.
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