B1G Power Teams vs The Conference & Head-to-Head (CHARTS)

[anacreon3]

Okay... these charts show how B1G Power teams play vs. the Conference and how those teams play each other head-to-head. We often call UW one of the Power teams of the Conference, but their record might indicate otherwise. I'll post more detail about Wisconsin in another post when I'm finished with my charts on their program. It's easy to see where PSU stands in the power hierarchy whether it's against the Conference or against the other Power teams.

 

[bjf1991]

Okay... these charts show how B1G Power teams play vs. the Conference and how those teams play each other head-to-head. We often call UW one of the Power teams of the Conference, but their record might indicate otherwise. I'll post more detail about Wisconsin in another post when I'm finished with my charts on their program. It's easy to see where PSU stands in the power hierarchy whether it's against the Conference or against the other Power teams.

Before Alvarez arrived, UW spent THREE DECADES getting curb-stomped ("curb-stomped" as in losing 23 of 24 to UMich....... essentially as "competitive": as Rutgers or Temple against Penn State.)


UW had a winning record against exactly ONE Big Ten program.......Northwestern


Unless someone was just looking at "since Alvarez", I can't imagine ANYONE considering UW as a "power team" in the B1G
________

You are comparing teams over completely different parameters and time frames:

For example - you are "crediting" UMich with bitch-slapping UW and MSU to the tune of 97 wins versus 32 losses up until 1993 - - - at which time both MSU and UW got more competitive.
Thereafter, UMich went a combined 20-17 against them......

But only crediting PSU with a 22-24 mark against those two teams - - - - because PSU didn't get to kick them around every year - for decades - when they both stunk


Penn State, since joining the B1G in 1993, actually has a BETTER record against UW and MSU (21-14) than UMich does (20-17).....but by using different years, UMich looks like the more dominant team.

____________

Crediting UMich or OSU with wins over a "power team", by beating up on Wisconsin "power teams" of the 60s, 70s, 80s......
Would be equivalent to crediting PSU with a 36-2 record against Maryland during the 60s, 70s and 80s (and actually, Maryland was a significantly BETTER team than UW during that era), and calling those wins against a "power team"





If you really wanted a apples-apples comparative, it's a lot easier to do:

58-26 OSU
43-40 UM
38-43 PSU
31-50 MSU
28-39 UW


Head-to-head records of OSU, UM, PSU, MSU and UW (in order) vav one another over THE SAME TIME FRAME (since 1993)


i.e. OSU rules the roost in the "modern era"...... UMich, and PSU have been competitive..... MSU and UW have been able to take their shots now and again, but are still the (relatively) red-headed stepchildren.
Which - I think - we all knew just from watching (though it sometimes helps to see the actual numbers)



If anyone wants to look at the "next level", the one glaring red thumb that sticks out is that PSU was able to do this while going through a period of time with both hands tied behind their backs (the sanction years)...
and, perhaps, to a lesser extent, while dealing with the sometimes rocky transition of the latter years of an unprecedented head coaching tenure.

 

[anacreon3]

Before Alvarez arrived, UW spent THREE DECADES getting curb-stomped ("curb-stomped" as in losing 23 of 24 to UMich....... essentially as "competitive": as Rutgers or Temple against Penn State.)


UW had a winning record against exactly ONE Big Ten program.......Northwestern


Unless someone was just looking at "since Alvarez", I can't imagine ANYONE considering UW as a "power team" in the B1G

I think folks do, in fact, think "since Alvarez" when considering UW as a power B1G team... especially since 1993, as Wisconsin was pathetic in Alvarez's first three years from 90-92. The charts I'm working on regarding UW still places that program in doubt as far as being a power team even since Alvarez, at least in my mind - I'll explain when I finish those charts.

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

Okay... these charts show how B1G Power teams play vs. the Conference and how those teams play each other head-to-head. We often call UW one of the Power teams of the Conference, but their record might indicate otherwise. I'll post more detail about Wisconsin in another post when I'm finished with my charts on their program. It's easy to see where PSU stands in the power hierarchy whether it's against the Conference or against the other Power teams.

Looking at decades of data is really pointless in this regard imho. Looking at 5 Year slices of data is much more revealing. MSU is a good example of this - MSU has stunk for most of the last 25 years except for Saban's last 2 years and Dantonio's recent success. Wisconsin has had more success, but their success has been quite sporadic as well with quite a bit of futility in-between. Northwestern is another team that has had spurts of time where they've been good, but they have not been consistently good over long periods of time. PSU is one of the few teams in the nation that could weather the bull$hit, illegitimate sanctions handed down by the NCAA and not even experience a losing season - PSU has recorded 12 consecutive winning seasons from 2005 - 2012, one of the longest winning streaks in the nation, which spans the NCAA's illegitimate actions intended to utterly destroy the program, and is now going into the 2017 Season as recognized contender to take BCS-Committee Championship Title (i.e., right back where they were in 2005). PSU actually tied for their B1G Division Title in 2012, so last year's Division Title was their second in the last 5 years.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Okay... these charts show how B1G Power teams play vs. the Conference and how those teams play each other head-to-head. We often call UW one of the Power teams of the Conference, but their record might indicate otherwise. I'll post more detail about Wisconsin in another post when I'm finished with my charts on their program. It's easy to see where PSU stands in the power hierarchy whether it's against the Conference or against the other Power teams.

Thanks for posting. And... doing the research.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Before Alvarez arrived, UW spent THREE DECADES getting curb-stomped ("curb-stomped" as in losing 23 of 24 to UMich....... essentially as "competitive": as Rutgers or Temple against Penn State.)


UW had a winning record against exactly ONE Big Ten program.......Northwestern


Unless someone was just looking at "since Alvarez", I can't imagine ANYONE considering UW as a "power team" in the B1G
________

You are comparing teams over completely different parameters and time frames:

For example - you are "crediting" UMich with bitch-slapping UW and MSU to the tune of 97 wins versus 32 losses up until 1993 - - - at which time both MSU and UW got more competitive.
Thereafter, UMich went a combined 20-17 against them......

But only crediting PSU with a 22-24 mark against those two teams - - - - because PSU didn't get to kick them around every year - for decades - when they both stunk


Penn State, since joining the B1G in 1993, actually has a BETTER record against UW and MSU (21-14) than UMich does (20-17).....but by using different years, UMich looks like the more dominant team.

____________

Crediting UMich or OSU with wins over a "power team", by beating up on Wisconsin "power teams" of the 60s, 70s, 80s......
Would be equivalent to crediting PSU with a 36-2 record against Maryland during the 60s, 70s and 80s (and actually, Maryland was a significantly BETTER team than UW during that era), and calling those wins against a "power team"





If you really wanted a apples-apples comparative, it's a lot easier to do:

58-26 OSU
43-40 UM
38-43 PSU
31-50 MSU
28-39 UW


Head-to-head records of OSU, UM, PSU, MSU and UW (in order) vav one another over THE SAME TIME FRAME (since 1993)


i.e. OSU rules the roost in the "modern era"...... UMich, and PSU have been competitive..... MSU and UW have been able to take their shots now and again, but are still the (relatively) red-headed stepchildren.
Which - I think - we all knew just from watching (though it sometimes helps to see the actual numbers)



If anyone wants to look at the "next level", the one glaring red thumb that sticks out is that PSU was able to do this while going through a period of time with both hands tied behind their backs (the sanction years)...
and, perhaps, to a lesser extent, while dealing with the sometimes rocky transition of the latter years of an unprecedented head coaching tenure.

Thanks for taking the effort to "level set" and validate the OP's research. You are very strong on the analytics. Also, thanks for your "inimitable" writing style and candor!

 

[anacreon3]

Before Alvarez arrived, UW spent THREE DECADES getting curb-stomped ("curb-stomped" as in losing 23 of 24 to UMich....... essentially as "competitive": as Rutgers or Temple against Penn State.)


UW had a winning record against exactly ONE Big Ten program.......Northwestern


Unless someone was just looking at "since Alvarez", I can't imagine ANYONE considering UW as a "power team" in the B1G.

We like to think of ourselves as a school and football program of great “tradition”. How do you have “tradition” with history? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree with a thing you said and my research also came to the very same conclusions as you pointed out; however I wanted to see the long-term history of the Conference; i.e., overall records of current Conference teams and when finished I thought others might want to see those results. Such data may not be of interest to you, but I thought it might be to some… hence my post.

The interesting thing is this… looking at head-to-head play all-time vs. head-to-head play since 1993, the results are quite similar. OSU and UM still dominate play on the field, PSU is still mediocre, and MSU and UW are okay. The only difference is that MSU and UW (the two agreed-upon red-headed stepchildren) flip positions based on winning percentage. I know you show UW last on your list, but based on winning percentage that is incorrect. At any rate, no matter how you want to look at it, the results are somewhat the same. See chart below.

You stated; “i.e. OSU rules the roost in the "modern era"...... UMich, and PSU have been competitive..... MSU and UW have been able to take their shots now and again, but are still the (relatively) red-headed stepchildren.”

Does the original chart I posted not say the same thing? Your statement not only applies to the “modern era” but also remains valid to the “historical era” as well. Okay, I’ll give you that OSU dominates a little more and UM was a lot closer to “ruling the roost” all-time than in the “modern era”, I'd say that PSU is more "mediocre" than "competitive", UW has become "mediocre" up from "pathetic" mostly at the expense of MSU and PSU, and MSU has fallen in the "modern era". Also interesting is that only the teams from Michigan have taken significant slides from their all-time records whilst OSU, PSU, and UW have all made improvements. PSU will not reach elite status until we can consistently play UM and OSU on a competitive basis... since joining the conference, PSU has a winning percentage against UM of .350 and worse yet, OSU at a .333 clip.

Still, I'm glad you brought up the point as it helps to be aware of all the facts. Thanks.

 

[bjf1991]

The interesting thing is this… looking at head-to-head play all-time vs. head-to-head play since 1993, the results are quite similar. OSU and UM still dominate play on the field, PSU is still mediocre, and MSU and UW are okay.

. Well, if you are gonna' look at a lot of numbers - - - it would probably not make sense to then come to conclusions that are incongruent with those numbers.

To say that "OSU and UMich" are in one class - "Dominators" - and that PSU is in another "Mediocre" - is just, for lack of a softer word, stupid


The numbers show that PSU and UMich are neck and neck - while OSU is significantly ahead of both. Several orders of magnitude further removed from the rest of the league than PSU and UMich are from one another.

The equate OSU and UMich - and then "differentiate" PSU from UMich is just erroneous based on the facts (not "opinion")


To each his own - - - I would suppose (hope?) you are not someone who would consider themselves to be "quant" or "logic" centered through education or training. Most folks aren't - and that would explain some things.

Or - maybe a UMich fan, or PSU "anti-fan", since one of those would be the most reasonable explanations.


But none of it means a whip wrt the stuff any of us is lkely most interested in - - - namely, PSU's performance in the B1G in 2017 and the near future - - - and I've certainly already spent more time typing this out than whatvthos topic merits.
So there it is.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

. Well, if you are gonna' look at a lot of numbers - - - it would probably not make sense to then come to conclusions that are incongruent with those numbers. To say that "OSU and UMich" are in one class - "Dominators" - and that PSU is in another "Mediocre" - is just, for lack of a softer word, stupid
To each his own - - - I would suppose (hope?) you are not someone who would consider themselves to be "quant" or "logic" centered through education or training.
So there it is.

"And, That's the Way it Is" Thanks for Watching and Good Night"

 

[bjf1991]

"And, That's the Way it Is" Thanks for Watching and Good Night"

Whatelseareyagonnadoorsaytostufflikethat?

 

[anacreon3]

. Well, if you are gonna' look at a lot of numbers - - - it would probably not make sense to then come to conclusions that are incongruent with those numbers.

To say that "OSU and UMich" are in one class - "Dominators" - and that PSU is in another "Mediocre" - is just, for lack of a softer word, stupid


The numbers show that PSU and UMich are neck and neck - while OSU is significantly ahead of both. Several orders of magnitude further removed from the rest of the league than PSU and UMich are from one another.

The equate OSU and UMich - and then "differentiate" PSU from UMich is just erroneous based on the facts (not "opinion")


To each his own - - - I would suppose (hope?) you are not someone who would consider themselves to be "quant" or "logic" centered through education or training. Most folks aren't - and that would explain some things.

Or - maybe a UMich fan, or PSU "anti-fan", since one of those would be the most reasonable explanations.


But none of it means a whip wrt the stuff any of us is lkely most interested in - - - namely, PSU's performance in the B1G in 2017 and the near future - - - and I've certainly already spent more time typing this out than whatvthos topic merits.
So there it is.

I posted a couple of charts for anyone to see whatever they wanted to see… strictly for informational purposes. I made no claim that they were anything else. But thanks for your diatribe. Personally I think it’s stupid to spend so much time responding to something that by your own admission doesn’t merit the time. I’ll always try to remember to post the word (CHARTS) in my topic if I ever post more charts, that way you’ll know to ignore those posts.

 

[bjf1991]

I posted a couple of charts for anyone to see whatever they wanted to see… strictly for informational purposes. I made no claim that they were anything else. But thanks for your diatribe. Personally I think it’s stupid to spend so much time responding to something that by your own admission doesn’t merit the time. I’ll always try to remember to post the word (CHARTS) in my topic if I ever post more charts, that way you’ll know to ignore those posts.

TY