Baltimore State's Attorney: 'We Have Probable Cause To File Criminal Charges' Over Freddie Gray's De

[KnightSlayer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/criminal-charges-freddie-gray_n_7188946.html

Charges including second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and assault, among others, will be filed against the officers involved in Gray's arrest, Mosby said.

Mosby noted that "no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray." Police had said Gray was arrested for possessing a switchblade, but Mosby said Friday the knife in Gray's possession was not a switchblade and was lawful, and said officers "illegally arrested" Gray.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

That should help bring some closure to the situation.

 

[psuro]

That should help bring some closure to the situation.

Was that a TIC comment?

Because I think this will get worse - especially if the trials go like other trials involving police officers - where they are found not guilty.

I have to imagine this will put considerable friction between the PD and the Prosecutor's office.

 

[Obliviax]

I don't think the prosecutors had a choice. They will play the political game and buy time.

 

[captony]

You are probably correct. With video of Gray standing on one leg prior to being place in the van, and a witness saying he was in there bouncing around trying to injure himself I don't see how murder or manslaughter charges will stick.

Seems like they are caving to media/political pressure to charge, and then if they are found not guilty of the big charges, there will be more riots with people who will be even more upset.

 

[Lion78]

Was that a TIC comment?

Because I think this will get worse - especially if the trials go like other trials involving police officers - where they are found not guilty.

I have to imagine this will put considerable friction between the PD and the Prosecutor's office.

Given the FOP's request for an independent prosecutor, no doubt there will be a ton of friction. I expect one side to promote the opinion prosecution is aimed at political gain for State's Attorney's husband.
Given the year's of seeing how sausage is made in PA legal system, I don't trust anyone.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/criminal-charges-freddie-gray_n_7188946.html

Charges including second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and assault, among others, will be filed against the officers involved in Gray's arrest, Mosby said.

Mosby noted that "no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray." Police had said Gray was arrested for possessing a switchblade, but Mosby said Friday the knife in Gray's possession was not a switchblade and was lawful, and said officers "illegally arrested" Gray.

"Depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an American legal term for an action that demonstrates a "callous disregard for human life" and results in death. In most states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder.
If no death results, such acts would generally be defined as reckless endangerment (sometimes known as "culpable negligence") and possibly other crimes, such as assault."----wiki definition

 

[Nittany Ned2]

JEEBUS! and now we find out it that the stated reason for the arrest was a legal weapon! I have so much respect for cops. What they do has got to be one of the most thankless and unforgiving jobs out there but wow. This is not good.

Those guy(s) had an incredibly bad day or they were not on the up and up.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Was that a TIC comment?

Because I think this will get worse - especially if the trials go like other trials involving police officers - where they are found not guilty.

I have to imagine this will put considerable friction between the PD and the Prosecutor's office.

Not tongue in cheek at all. Don't know what you thought I meant, but what I meant is that this might bring some closure and mitigate some unrest.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

You are probably correct. With video of Gray standing on one leg prior to being place in the van, and a witness saying he was in there bouncing around trying to injure himself I don't see how murder or manslaughter charges will stick.

Seems like they are caving to media/political pressure to charge, and then if they are found not guilty of the big charges, there will be more riots with people who will be even more upset.

? ? Not following the logic thread there. Please elucidate.

 

[KnightSlayer]

You are probably correct. With video of Gray standing on one leg prior to being place in the van, and a witness saying he was in there bouncing around trying to injure himself I don't see how murder or manslaughter charges will stick.

Seems like they are caving to media/political pressure to charge, and then if they are found not guilty of the big charges, there will be more riots with people who will be even more upset.

That is what the police reported the witness as saying. The actual witness denies saying that.

 

[daveM.]

My wife does have some insight into how the BPD operates and says most of arrest like these the cops make an illegal stop and then make some stuff up about the arrest to make it seem on the up and up and the judges, etc always buy it. It is about time change comes because the police have been violating these people's constitutional rights for a long time now. These cops are bad apples and most likely will be convicted if not please before a trial. I hope it does cause some change in Baltimore and around the country on how the police operate.

 

[Pardlion]

This is totally ridiculous.

First of all, I'm not sure, but I suspect that fleeing from the police and resisting arrest is a crime.

Second, even if it's not a crime, making an "illegal arrest" does not mean that you committed murder.

Third, not putting a seatbelt on somebody is not murder unless you knew they would die as a result, which is highly doubtful.

Fourth, 6 cops didn't "murder" the guy.

At most, I think you might have a colorable manslaughter charge against one or two cops.

It's a politicized prosecution in a poorly governed jurisdiction.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

This is totally ridiculous.

First of all, I'm not sure, but I suspect that fleeing from the police and resisting arrest is a crime.

Second, even if it's not a crime, making an "illegal arrest" does not mean that you committed murder.

Third, not putting a seatbelt on somebody is not murder unless you knew they would die as a result, which is highly doubtful.

Fourth, 6 cops didn't "murder" the guy.

At most, I think you might have a colorable manslaughter charge against one or two cops.

It's a politicized prosecution in a poorly governed jurisdiction.

So, what you are saying is that you know neither the details of the charges for each individual, nor the facts as developed by LE investigation so far? Interesting, because all that is now easily available.

You can even watch a video of the entire PC if you are sincere in your interest about these charges. IF. -

 

[daveM.]

This is totally ridiculous.

Fourth, 6 cops didn't "murder" the guy.

.

If you are going to talk on this case you need to really know the details a little more. It is "depraved heart murder" charge which means the charged had little or no consideration for human life that lead to death. That is exactly what seemed happened. Freddie Grey died a terrible and agonizing death that could have been avoided with some earlier medical help. The facts thus far seem to point he was basically tortured in the back of that van by what the cops call a "crazy ride". They do this intentionally to scare the arrested. I am pretty sure Freddie didn't severe his own spine and break his own neck all while refusing medical attention.

 

[Pardlion]

If you are going to talk on this case you need to really know the details a little more. It is "depraved heart murder" charge which means the charged had little or no consideration for human life that lead to death. That is exactly what seemed happened. Freddie Grey died a terrible and agonizing death that could have been avoided with some earlier medical help. The facts thus far seem to point he was basically tortured in the back of that van by what the cops call a "crazy ride". They do this intentionally to scare the arrested. I am pretty sure Freddie didn't severe his own spine and break his own neck all while refusing medical attention.

Failing to put a seatbelt on a guy is not sufficiently "reckless" to support such a charge. Failing to put a seatbelt on a guy and then taking him for a rough ride might be sufficiently reckless, but only as to the driver. But even there, there was another passenger in the vehicle whose story doesn't quite equate to such a rough ride that death or serious bodily injury was reasonably likely.

In any event, the fact that they charged 6 cops tells you all you need to know. These are politically trumped-up charges.

 

[psuro]

Don't worry. The jury will find the police officers not guilty and all will be well.

 

[Sullivan]

[QUOTE="daveM., post: 124095, member: 556" The facts thus far seem to point he was basically tortured in the back of that van by what the cops call a "crazy ride". .[/QUOTE]

Facts? The city of Baltimore has a population of over 600,000 and thousands of cameras, yet there isn't anyone or anything that witnessed this "crazy ride"?

 

[Pardlion]

Don't worry. The jury will find the police officers not guilty and all will be well.

Yep. The prosecutor obviously overcharged in order to scare some of the cops into testifying against, I guess the driver and maybe the other cop in the van. I don't agree with it under the circumstances, and I think its abusive and politically-motivated.

So, we're going to have 6 cops getting lots of paid time off, and a full defense funded by the taxpayers, and at the end of the day, we might get one guy convicted of manslaughter . . . or acquitted after venue gets moved to Annapolis.

 

[daveM.]

Failing to put a seatbelt on a guy is not sufficiently "reckless" to support such a charge. Failing to put a seatbelt on a guy and then taking him for a rough ride might be sufficiently reckless, but only as to the driver. But even there, there was another passenger in the vehicle whose story doesn't quite equate to such a rough ride that death or serious bodily injury was reasonably likely.

In any event, the fact that they charged 6 cops tells you all you need to know. These are politically trumped-up charges.

Once again, you need to know more about the case. The second person in the van was separated by a wall and only said he heard some bumbs then was quite. The story of him trying to break his own neck by the was made up. It is a well known tactic from police, etc to "leak" some info that helps you before formal charges are filed. I would hope as a Penn State fan you would learn to look at the facts more before you speak on topics such as this. The police stopped to check on him and refused medical treatment to him. One stop was just lied about and was only found out after surveillance video was found of it. Why would the police lie about a stop that happened if they weren't hiding something? I think those that are arguing that the police are not at fault have some politically motivation as well.

 

[PSU65]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/criminal-charges-freddie-gray_n_7188946.html

Charges including second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and assault, among others, will be filed against the officers involved in Gray's arrest, Mosby said.

Mosby noted that "no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray." Police had said Gray was arrested for possessing a switchblade, but Mosby said Friday the knife in Gray's possession was not a switchblade and was lawful, and said officers "illegally arrested" Gray.

I'm completely confused. Last night they said on the news that the formal investigation was complete and that they found that no wrongdoing was committed by the police and that his injuries were caused by his head hitting the back of the van-one particular bolt??

 

[Pardlion]

Once again, you need to know more about the case. The second person in the van was separated by a wall and only said he heard some bumbs then was quite. The story of him trying to break his own neck by the was made up. It is a well known tactic from police, etc to "leak" some info that helps you before formal charges are filed. I would hope as a Penn State fan you would learn to look at the facts more before you speak on topics such as this. The police stopped to check on him and refused medical treatment to him. One stop was just lied about and was only found out after surveillance video was found of it. Why would the police lie about a stop that happened if they weren't hiding something? I think those that are arguing that the police are not at fault have some politically motivation as well.

Try to take a breath and think it through. If all Guy #2 could say was "I heard a few bumps", then the ride wasn't that bad because Guy #2 otherwise would have said that all hell broke loose. Even in his "clarification" statement, he didn't talk about an intentionally rough ride. So, where's the evidence of it? As a Penn State fan, I would think that you would know not to invent convenient facts.

Leaks and alleged lies after the fact don't mean anything to me without a lot more.

Take your blinders off.

 

[Nittany Ned2]

Try to take a breath and think it through. If all Guy #2 could say was "I heard a few bumps", then the ride wasn't that bad because Guy #2 otherwise would have said that all hell broke loose. Even in his "clarification" statement, he didn't talk about an intentionally rough ride. So, where's the evidence of it? As a Penn State fan, I would think that you would know not to invent convenient facts.

Leaks and alleged lies after the fact don't mean anything to me without a lot more.

Take your blinders off.

UNLESS the "ride" happened before guy#2 got into the van. Again, we'll find out at the trial.

 

[psuro]

Re: politically driven charges...
The issue is not the prosecutor, mayor, Governor or even the police investigation. The issue are those people who look at situations from a political light only - whether it be conservative or liberal - and then try to find anything to justify their pre-determined disposition.

 

[Nittany Ned2]

Re: politically driven charges...
The issue is not the prosecutor, mayor, Governor or even the police investigation. The issue are those people who look at situations from a political light only - whether it be conservative or liberal - and then try to find anything to justify their pre-determined disposition.

Great point about justifying our predetermined disposition. I just watched a program that pointed this as a problem in the US. We limit our news consumption to only the outlets that reaffirm our political pov or world view. It's being confused as critical thinking. No one wants to challenge their initial pov.

 

[CF LION]

I'm completely confused. Last night they said on the news that the formal investigation was complete and that they found that no wrongdoing was committed by the police and that his injuries were caused by his head hitting the back of the van-one particular bolt??

Al Sharpton showed up in Baltimore last night. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Pardlion]

UNLESS the "ride" happened before guy#2 got into the van. Again, we'll find out at the trial.

Yes, but he did say that he heard bumps, which seems to indicate movement and thus would be inconsistent with Gray having already suffered a broken neck.

For sure more facts will come out. The prosecutor might even have wanted to wait for those.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

I'm completely confused. Last night they said on the news that the formal investigation was complete and that they found that no wrongdoing was committed by the police and that his injuries were caused by his head hitting the back of the van-one particular bolt??

Well, you would do well to remember who told you that. Good thing to know for future controversial news stories.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Try to take a breath and think it through. If all Guy #2 could say was "I heard a few bumps", then the ride wasn't that bad because Guy #2 otherwise would have said that all hell broke loose. Even in his "clarification" statement, he didn't talk about an intentionally rough ride. So, where's the evidence of it? As a Penn State fan, I would think that you would know not to invent convenient facts.

Leaks and alleged lies after the fact don't mean anything to me without a lot more.

Take your blinders off.

Guy two was only in the van for the last 5 minutes of a 45 minute ride.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Yes, but he did say that he heard bumps, which seems to indicate movement and thus would be inconsistent with Gray having already suffered a broken neck.

For sure more facts will come out. The prosecutor might even have wanted to wait for those.

My suggestion that you look at the video of her PC is worth repeating. She lays it all out during that PC.

You might have to go off your normal news source sites to find it, but it is more or less going viral as I type this and should be easy to find.

If you have not been able to find the whole thing on your normal source sites, you may even ask yourself why not after seeing the whole thing.

 

[Pardlion]

My suggestion that you look at the video of her PC is worth repeating. She lays it all out during that PC.

You might have to go off your normal news source sites to find it, but it is more or less going viral as I type this and should be easy to find.

If you have not been able to find the whole thing on your normal source sites, you may even ask yourself why not after seeing the whole thing.

So I should listen to the prosecutor's story used to justify the charges? Will it be as sexy as Frank Fina's Grand Jury Report?

 

[Pardlion]

Guy two was only in the van for the last 5 minutes of a 45 minute ride.

OK. And he heard bumping, which would seem to be movement by Gray.

Anyway, where's the evidence that the van was rocking and rolling through town for 40 minutes prior?

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

My suggestion that you look at the video of her PC is worth repeating. She lays it all out during that PC.

You might have to go off your normal news source sites to find it, but it is more or less going viral as I type this and should be easy to find.

If you have not been able to find the whole thing on your normal source sites, you may even ask yourself why not after seeing the whole thing.

For two or three days people have been telling me that I did not know what I was talking about. All, I am suggesting is that you might have a better idea about what people are talking about if you were to look into what they are talking about.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

OK. And he heard bumping, which would seem to be movement by Gray.

Anyway, where's the evidence that the van was rocking and rolling through town for 40 minutes prior?

It takes two (2) minutes to get from the site where Grey surrendered to the station. You tell us how long it took this time.

 

[Pardlion]

It takes two (2) minutes to get from the site where Grey surrendered to the station. You tell us how long it took this time.

Why don't you try sticking to the facts. They didn't drive to the station--they went and picked up another guy. I have no idea why they did this and neither do you, although it seems likely that they were dispatched. So, noting that the station was two minutes is useless at this point.

 

[psuro]

I saw something on the news that outlined the route the van took. If they would have gone straight to the police department, it appears to only be a 4 or 5 block trip - in a straight line.

The rout the van took seemed like they were going in a large circle, with the aforementioned stops. It easily took the 45 minutes.

I guess that is a question that can be asked - why not go straight to the police station?

 

[Sullivan]

For two or three days people have been telling me that I did not know what I was talking about..

People have been saying you don't what you're talking about, since you showed up on the this site on Feb 6, 2014.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Why don't you try sticking to the facts. They didn't drive to the station--they went and picked up another guy. I have no idea why they did this and neither do you, although it seems likely that they were dispatched. So, noting that the station was two minutes is useless at this point.

In the post that you are responding to, neither of my two sentences stated anything that was non-factual. I do not know why your are imagining that they do.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

People have been saying you don't what you're talking about, since you showed up on the this site on Feb 6, 2014.

Yes. Generally the same folks, too. LOL.

I think on two occasions I have been dead wrong, and admitted it.

I think it is a pretty good idea to admit it when wrong. Can't say what stops others from it.

 

[Pardlion]

In the post that you are responding to, neither of my two sentences stated anything that was non-factual. I do not know why your are imagining that they do.

Stop talking crap. The intent of your post was to suggest that the police must have intended to bounce Gray around because they took 40 minutes instead of 2 minutes to return to the station. You omitted the inconvenient fact that they went and picked up another guy. Put another way, you lied.