Baltimore State's Attorney: 'We Have Probable Cause To File Criminal Charges' Over Freddie Gray's De
- Thread starter KnightSlayer
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Great. Now find a case where a cop has been prosecuted for wrongful arrest based on Dillons Rule. Bet it's never happened. There's a reason.
Unarmed people die all the time, occasionally even in police custody. When it's an accident, their estates sue and win millions of dollars. But, it's not supposed to result in politicized prosecutions and prosecutorial misconduct.
You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you? Dillon's Rule is related as to whether or not a municipality can establish stronger laws than what the state proscribes, which is why Dem (a lawyer) brought it up. So, no, people aren't "prosecuted for wrongful arrest based on Dillon's Rule," because it has nothing to do with prosecuting people, it's all about what a municipality can do to set up more restrictive guidelines than what the state has. Either Baltimore has more restrictive requirements on knives than Maryland has, or it doesn't. One or the other. I've been trying to figure that out. I give a crap about justice, okay?
I researched this because I'm sincerely trying to figure out what's happening, sincerely trying to get to the bottom of this. If this post of yours is any indication, you're more about wanting to score debating points on an internet message board. Have fun with that. I kind of suspected this all along, but I'm a fair guy, I give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not a fool.
First of all, demlion is an idiot, not a lawyer.
Second of all, way to not think through my post. Point is, that a cop would never be prosecuted for wrongful arrest for acting under an ordinance that is somehow overruled sub silentio by virtue of something like Dillion's rule. This particular ordinance has been on the books for 60 years.
And PS: Baltimore city is authorized to have this ordinance.
Seems like your core (and tangential) argument is based on assumptions of politicized prosecutions and prosecutorial misconduct.
Don't know why you're so blasé about prosecutorial misconduct. It's a very serious issue that plays a role in most wrongful convictions.
I think the knife was not a switchblade, like the prosecutor said, but was spring-assisted like the police said. If that's the case, then the prosecutor was a liar when she told the world that the knife was legal. That the prosecutor chose to lie when she held a press event to announce her charges is all I need to know.
A lot of 'ifs' and 'I think' in there. So in short your claim of prosecutor misconduct is conjecture. If you are correct it will become apparent. But it is a little early to be calling the charges misconduct.
He cannot let go of his obsessive NEED for this to somehow to come out to be the fault of the people who live there and NOT the police. For it to somehow be Freddie Gray's own fault that his neck got broke. What is really, really funniest of all though, is his outrage at "prosecutorial misconduct." Huh. Well, let's say he is right and the prosecutors in Baltimore have been overcharging people for years. Isn't that a reason that a rioter might give to attempt to justify HIS lawlessness? Or is it only misconduct when the police are the victims? What if the prosecutors record in these cases against the cops is no better than in Freddie Gray's rap sheet?
Remember, guys like pardlion have been parading Gray's arrest record as though it were proof that he committed the crimes. I saw it online in the first 24 hours, but never an analysis of how many convictions that represented.
It should also be noted that the above-displayed list shows Freddie Gray's arrest record and not his conviction record:
The record suggests that, as the years went by, Gray became harder to convict of a drug crime. Police kept arresting him. Prosecutors kept putting him on dockets. But after he was convicted of illegal drug possession when he was 18, Gray mostly avoided jail time.
Court records show not-guilty verdicts, cases dropped, closed or put on the inactive docket. There's one "probation after conviction" for a drug charge last August. Those are pretty typical outcomes for someone police frequently suspect of being a street-level drug dealer.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/freddiegray.asp#cYEV1q8krpfSFReR.99
So is this the "prosecutorial misconduct" pardlion is talking about? LOL!
There's only one if.
Here's what I do know:
1. The police report says the knife is spring-assisted.
2. The prosecutor did not say that the knife was not spring-assisted.
3. The prosecutor only said that the knife was not a switchblade.
4. Not all spring-assisted knives are switchblades.
5. Spring-assisted knives are illegal under Baltimore ordinance.
6. Gray was charged under the Baltimore ordinance, and not under state law.
7. The prosecutor said that the knife wasn't illegal under state law, which is an evasion of the charges actually brought against Gray.
8. The prosecutor did not say that the knife wasn't illegal under Baltimore ordinance.
Could the knife turn out to be a boy scout penknife? Sure, but it won't. It's plain as day to me, based on how the prosecutor approached this (intentionally evading the Baltimore ordinance) that it's a spring-assisted blade, illegal under Baltimore ordinance.
In my book, that makes her a liar. And, lyin' prosecutors make injustice.
He was a snitch, you dumbass. Duh.
PS: your post resembles almost nothing that I have said. I've never even mentioned Gray's arrest record. Get your facts right.
PSS: You can thank me later for teaching you that's it's a crime to run from a lawful police stop, which is something that any ordinary law school graduate would know. Let me guess: you went to Widener?
You're still missing the point. Dem and I were trying to figure out whether or not Baltimore had more restrictive knife laws than Maryland does as a state. Our invoking Dillon's Rule was an attempt to do this; for Joe Blow on the street trying to make sense of this thing, Dillon's Rule is a general rule of thumb, a way to get somewhere, to get from the general to the specific. If Baltimore DOES have more restrictive laws than Maryland, then that's that, you don't invoke Dillon's Rule to overturn it, which is what you were implying was happening. So your original response re Dillon's Rule was just stupid. It's not how it works.
But if it is prosecutorial misconduct to have charged these cops, then that same prosecutorial misconduct probably runs rampant in overcharging people like Gray. And I have to wonder why you have such a double standard about it. Huh. BTW, you just might find a snitch or two among these cops as well. Dumbass.
It's prosecutorial misconduct to have overcharged the cops for political reasons, and then lied about the legality of the knife in a press conference.
I have no idea about whether this prosecutor "probably" overcharges other people, like you allege, and no information about whether Gray has been overcharged before. And neither do you, so once again, you just make stuff up that makes you feel good.
I feel certain, though, that Gray hasn't been overcharged for political reasons and then had the prosecutor lie about the charges in a press conference.
I think you're right, because I have no idea what your point is.
Here's mine:
1. Cops charged with illegal arrest based on knife being "legal" under state law
2. Appears likely that knife is illegal under Baltimore law
3. Demlion says that state law may trump local law
4. Regardless, cops should not be charged with crime for enforcing facially-valid local law that has been on books for 60 years.
Incorrect. The police report said the knife was an "automatic" spring assisted knife. That is a switchblade. That is different than just a spring assisted knife.
Here is a link to a spring assisted knife available for sale at a Walmart in Baltimore.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Whetstone-Tough-Rescue-Tactical-Spring-Assist-Folding-Knife-Black/17243798
Where did Dem say that state law may trump local law? I noticed no such remark. Dillon's Rule is NOT a mechanism for having state law trump local law, so just bringing Dillon's Rule into the conversation doesn't mean that it was intended to say that state law trumps local law.
Why not just find a mainstream media website which explains this? I've been looking all over for something that would spell out loud and clear exactly what's what, and I got nothing. You seem to have something, why not share it with us? You say it's been on the books for 60 years, okay, post a link so we can educate ourselves. Mainstream media, mind, nothing agenda-driven. If you're correct, then Fox News would be running with this, no doubt, so just find a Fox News link that specifically supports your thesis.
What's incorrect?
Anyway, forget Walmart. Here's what the ordinance says: "It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or
other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife."
Is it possible that the knife is deemed legal under this statute, either because it didn't have the right kind of spring or isn't "commonly known as a switch blade"? Maybe. But, I'll bet that there is a long history of prosecutions under this 60-year old statute for spring-assisted blades. The police commission already studied the knife and determined that it was unlawful under this ordinance. The prosecutor avoided the issue like the plague.
Anyway, even if reasonable minds can differ about the status of the knife under the ordinance, why would the cops be criminally prosecuted for arresting someone under it? They only needed probable cause; they didn't have to be right.
Cool. Give us the link to: "The police commission already studied the knife and determined that it was unlawful under this ordinance."
Sure: "While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code." http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ncident-penn-north-20150504-story.html#page=1
So, it is your position that these kind of knives are sold in Baltimore, but cannot be owned? This is interesting.
Not able to see how that justifys the mortal injury of a person in the custody of the BPD, however.
Automatic spring assisted is different from just spring assisted. It appears you are purposely confusing the two to make your point.
Are you serious? The quote is from the Baltimore Sun, referring to the police task force's finding.
There is a massive difference between an automatic spring assisted knife and a simple spring assisted knife.
For example, this is one example of a knife that is spring assisted:
http://www.swissknifeshop.com/shop/...ves/boy-scout/swiss-army-cub-scout-classic-sd
Knives that are simply spring assisted do not violate the law or the ordinance.
The good news is that we will have trials where all this will be sorted out. But, right now it appears that the Baltimore police engaged in some pretty serious lies in an attempted cover-up.
There might be a trial.
On the other hand, Mosby's own Sherriff's task force has already determined that the knife violated the Baltimore ordinance. Thus, the arresting cops obviously had probable cause to arrest Gray for possessing the knife.
It's going to be awfully comical if the defense lawyers get to call the prosecutor's own investigators to cross-examine them about whether they did a careful study and concluded that the knife was illegal.
Who has a better knowledge of the law? A policeman or a JD?
The politician, if she is a lawyer whose job it is to read and apply the law. But both would have a better understanding than a jackass.
Are you referring to the local ordinance that Mosby intentionally omitted to mention when she lied about the knife being "legal"? If that's the case, then I'll go with "policeman".
Notwithstanding your BS, I can tell that you've recognized that there's a big problem. I can read you like a book.
And yet, the man in the van still died because he was purposely put in a position where he would sustain injuries.
Gray was put in the van. Check.
Van was driven recklessly. Check.
Van was not driven straight to the police station. Check.
Van stopped 3 (maybe 4) times at which point none of the police officers made any attempt to determine if Gray had injuries. Check.
Gray died of a severed spine. Check.
You are correct - there is a lot of doubt about this.
Really, you know that the van was driven "recklessly"? Please enlighten us.
Why wasn't the van driven directly to the police station? Do you know?
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