Baltimore State's Attorney: 'We Have Probable Cause To File Criminal Charges' Over Freddie Gray's De

[BBrown]

Hey pard, there is so little known by the public onthis that of necessity everything you say is a result of your "instincts" and "gut feelings" and therefore a huge waste of time. Funny how easy it is for you to see that the prosecutor terribly overcharged the cops. Clearly that so-called 'fact" makes you very angry. But somehow you have a great difficulty seeing how it is that a the same prosecutors, in league with the same police department, might overcharge people like Freddie Gray all the time. Maybe some of those folks who were rioting have been overcharged a time or two themselves. But the problem only crops up when you think the cops are treated unfairly. got it.

Here is a very interesting article in today's paper.

Kind of hard to deny when a former officer testifies that..."A former city police officer testified five years ago, in a case that resulted in a death, that rough rides were an "unsanctioned technique" in which police vans are driven to cause "injury or pain" to unbuckled, handcuffed detainees."

Here's the link...http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-hs-more-rough-rides-20150501-story.html

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Lol. You must have been really out of sorts when you heard that joe covered up anal rape for the good of the football program.

ATM there is a huge chasm between where you are and a little thing we call reality.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

So, resisting arrest for what? For being a black man in America and running away from white police. Seen the TV lately? If I am a Black man in the US and police come toward me..... I would not run....I would shot first ask questions later and plead self defense under Floridas law stating that if you fear harm from someone it's your right to shoot them ....

WTF is wrong with our country? Is a legitimate question. Among all the BS corporate causes... I see none designed to help cure our nations most linger and appalling problems. Of course. among the conservatively PC - I am probably playing the race card.... Not really ... I am playing the FY card.... NBA - NFL - MLB NC-fraud-AA .... and players associations ... step up to the plate and contribute 2 billion (chump change to you all) to screen police to get the most rational people you can in the job. ... and other measures to stop this national disgrace.

 

[demlion]

It's just that I demand strict proof before I buy into a conspiracy theory, unlike credulous you.

I don't know what facts you have that makes you assume that this prosecutor goes around overcharging people all the time. Sound to me like you're making stuff up. But, I don't like it if you're right.

I do have a problem with people getting overcharged for what amounts to negligence in carrying out their jobs, especially when the charges are politically motivated. Not sure why you're such a fan boy of overcharging cops.

Unlike you I am not a fan of overcharging ANYONE, regardless of their status as a cop or a minority. You have a one-way reaction to it. You have reached a bunch of conclusions about Freddie Gray without evidence, AND a bunch of conclusion about the cops without either evidence OR an understanding of the law.

 

[lein]

[QUOTE="daveM., post: 124095, member: 556" The facts thus far seem to point he was basically tortured in the back of that van by what the cops call a "crazy ride". .

Facts? The city of Baltimore has a population of over 600,000 and thousands of cameras, yet there isn't anyone or anything that witnessed this "crazy ride"?[/QUOTE]
Wonder if the van has gps tracking

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Unlike you I am not a fan of overcharging ANYONE, regardless of their status as a cop or a minority. You have a one-way reaction to it. You have reached a bunch of conclusions about Freddie Gray without evidence, AND a bunch of conclusion about the cops without either evidence OR an understanding of the law.

Here is an article about young Mr. Gray that you may find interesting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/freddie-grays-life-a-study-in-the-sad-effects-of-lead-paint-on-poor-blacks/2015/04/29/0be898e6-eea8-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html?hpid=z1

 

[psufan9808]

There are several problems in this whole discussion.

1) The facts are not fully established.
2) People are piecing together the conclusion that they want rather than examining all of the facts (see #1) in context. Most of this is based purely on the poster's political ideology or agenda.
3) No matter what percentage of the tragedy is whomever's fault, it DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER JUSTIFY the mass lawlessness and crimes that ensued. Destroying your neighborhood, setting fire to businesses, attacking police, and mass looting is the mark of uneducated, thoughtless, and uncivilized people with no hope of a better life.
5) The uneducated, thoughtless, and uncivilized people with no hope in a number of American cities is the root of the problem. It impacts police tactics if you are among those that desire to conclude that this is entirely the fault of the police. But more importantly, it is a trend indicative of failed policies and those people exploited for votes by those policies.

Give the people hope, not handouts. They will learn to value life and property if they have to earn things and work to achieve them. The cycle of dependency and hopelessness must end. It is cruel and inhumane to chain these people to a life of menial handouts without hope of escape. They are lured into it as an easy low hanging fruit solution to long term survival. Controls must be instituted such that the handouts are temporary assistance for drug-free individuals who need a temporary safety net to get back to earning a living without incentive to bring more lives into this world that are dependent on a handout. No amount of finger pointing at and undermining of the police or rule of law will address the root cause.

 

[lein]

Here is a very interesting article in today's paper.

Kind of hard to deny when a former officer testifies that..."A former city police officer testified five years ago, in a case that resulted in a death, that rough rides were an "unsanctioned technique" in which police vans are driven to cause "injury or pain" to unbuckled, handcuffed detainees."

Here's the link...http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-hs-more-rough-rides-20150501-story.html

Which is irrelevant as it has to be proven these cops, gave this person, a rough ride on the day he died. That evidence hasn't been provided.

The preliminary hearing will be where the state has to show its cards to a judge to support the charges it intends to pursue.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

There are several problems in this whole discussion.

1) The facts are not fully established.
2) People are piecing together the conclusion that they want rather than examining all of the facts (see #1) in context. Most of this is based purely on the poster's political ideology or agenda.
3) No matter what percentage of the tragedy is whomever's fault, it DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER JUSTIFY the mass lawlessness and crimes that ensued. Destroying your neighborhood, setting fire to businesses, attacking police, and mass looting is the mark of uneducated, thoughtless, and uncivilized people with no hope of a better life.
5) The uneducated, thoughtless, and uncivilized people with no hope in a number of American cities is the root of the problem. It impacts police tactics if you are among those that desire to conclude that this is entirely the fault of the police. But more importantly, it is a trend indicative of failed policies and those people exploited for votes by those policies.

Give the people hope, not handouts. They will learn to value life and property if they have to earn things and work to achieve them. The cycle of dependency and hopelessness must end. It is cruel and inhumane to chain these people to a life of menial handouts without hope of escape. They are lured into it as an easy low hanging fruit solution to long term survival. Controls must be instituted such that the handouts are temporary assistance for drug-free individuals who need a temporary safety net to get back to earning a living without incentive to bring more lives into this world that are dependent on a handout. No amount of finger pointing at and undermining of the police or rule of law will address the root cause.

Well, I have to say that I am glad you are down with that hopey changey thing. That's a start, I suppose.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Which is irrelevant as it has to be proven these cops, gave this person, a rough ride on the day he died. That evidence hasn't been provided.

The preliminary hearing will be where the state has to show its cards to a judge to support the charges it intends to pursue.

I predict that the first bit of evidence I that regard will be the timeline map of the route. That one is gonna take a bit of 'splainin.

 

[psufan9808]

Marbles,

You can dismiss it if you like because it does not fit your agenda, but the big picture is that a potential injustice which has yet to be examined fully DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL JUSTIFY BURNING AND LOOTING YOUR OWN CITY. Further, even if in a court of law the injustice is proven (too little information for us to know at this point), it doesn't justify the crimes that your team seems to want to rationalize. The animals (as defined by their actions) are not acting rationally.

For political purposes, the tragedy, the victim's family, and a race and a class of people are being exploited and our rule of law is being undermined. Congratulations! You are hurting this Country and the people for which you claim empathy superficially.

 

[demlion]

Marbles,

You can dismiss it if you like because it does not fit your agenda, but the big picture is that a potential injustice which has yet to be examined fully DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL JUSTIFY BURNING AND LOOTING YOUR OWN CITY. Further, even if in a court of law the injustice is proven (too little information for us to know at this point), it doesn't justify the crimes that your team seems to want to rationalize. The animals (as defined by their actions) are not acting rationally.

For political purposes, the tragedy, the victim's family, and a race and a class of people are being exploited and our rule of law is being undermined. Congratulations! You are hurting this Country and the people for which you claim empathy superficially.

Who are "animals" again? The people who trashed cars or the men and women with badges who killed a guy?

 

[dawgduice]

I have NO idea what the true story is. Hopefully "true" justice will find it's way.
To share a personal Police story regarding "behavior". As a young man I was arrested for "illegal DRAG racing", you know car racing on public streets. After being handcuffed (hands behind me) I was asked by the officer "are the cuffs too tight" ? I answered "a little" So the officer tightened them another notch. After that I was placed in the Police van (a panel truck) with metal bench seats on the sides for the "drive to the police station". Well the two officers chose to drive on a road filled with large pot holes and I was thrown around the back of the truck unable to hold onto anything. One of the officers opened the slide panel and asked me if the ride was "comfortable" and hoped it was not too bumpy. I was not really hurt, other than a few minor bruises. But, what was the "point" of the treatment?? I must also add these were Philadelphia Police and "they" are in fact very different from "suburban" police or State police.

Maybe this was an isolated case

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Marbles,

You can dismiss it if you like because it does not fit your agenda, but the big picture is that a potential injustice which has yet to be examined fully DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL JUSTIFY BURNING AND LOOTING YOUR OWN CITY. Further, even if in a court of law the injustice is proven (too little information for us to know at this point), it doesn't justify the crimes that your team seems to want to rationalize. The animals (as defined by their actions) are not acting rationally.

For political purposes, the tragedy, the victim's family, and a race and a class of people are being exploited and our rule of law is being undermined. Congratulations! You are hurting this Country and the people for which you claim empathy superficially.

You're questioning my patriotism then?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Who are "animals" again? The people who trashed cars or the men and women with badges who killed a guy?

That's an easy one. Both if the cops truly are guilty. Oh wait you always pick a side as a political party dictates your thought. Forgot about that.

 

[demlion]

That's an easy one. Both if the cops truly are guilty. Oh wait you always pick a side as a political party dictates your thought. Forgot about that.

I generally do not call any humans animals, because pretending humans are sub-human has kind of an ugly history, but thanks for your sweeping statements. Property damage and theft and looting are not the same as killing someone. But you can equate them if you want.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I generally do not call any humans animals, because pretending humans are sub-human has kind of an ugly history, but thanks for your sweeping statements. Property damage and theft and looting are not the same as killing someone. But you can equate them if you want.

Sucker punching reporters because they are white. Burning down a pharmacy which a community needs. Using a tragic death as an excuse to commit crimes. Yeah I don't hold those folks up on a mantle. I guess it's ok if you want to excuse it or justify it.

Thankfully the good citizens came out the next few nights.

 

[SgtCarter]

I have probable cause to conclude that she is woefully incompetent

 

[Aoshiro]

I don't know what happened to Freddie Gray, but I do know that decent people should be extremely concerned whenever an unarmed, shackled person dies in police custody.

It's really disturbing that so many of you are making excuses rather than asking questions.

 

[TCFA-Nit]

That's an easy one. Both if the cops truly are guilty. Oh wait you always pick a side as a political party dictates your thought. Forgot about that.

It seems as though most everyone on this thread allows a political party to dictate their thoughts. Nobody seems to be all that interested in what actually happened (or didn't happen) to Freddie Gray, or what role the city/government/cops has played in creating this situation over the course of decades, or what role the residents themselves have to play in order to build a better and stronger Baltimore.

Most folks here picked their "side" from the moment this all started, and now it's all about cheering on the result that their team wants. Lots of people talking in this thread about what's "wrong with this country." Well, I know one thing that's wrong with this country: people being more loyal to a political ideology than they are to their country. It's a way of thinking I've never understood. We've got a 25-year-old guy dead and buried and a city in turmoil, and the discourse here and elsewhere basically boils down to the same old partisan sniping--empty, useless platitudes, racially charged language, and the reliable standby of fingerpointing/blaming "the other guy's" party/policies for all of the problems of the world. It's depressing. But it's what we're left with these days.

I lived in Baltimore for a while and I still love that city. I love it despite its many faults -- faults that result from the failings of not just one group or other (residents of the city and of the suburbs, Republicans and Democrats, business, the cops, government officials and so on) but the failings of them all, and systemic societal problems that go back decades. It's a complex, difficult mess; no simple platitude or party-line B.S. is the answer.

In the meantime, let's just hope that we get to the truth of what happened to Freddie Gray, and that justice is done. I'm not sure we will. But I would certainly hope that what everyone really cared about was finding that truth--and not rooting for one outcome or the other, just based on what's "better" for those who share your political leanings.

[Hops off soapbox]

Now I'm gonna go work in my yard, turn on some music, and have myself a well-made IPA. Happy Saturday.

 

[BBrown]

Sucker punching reporters because they are white. Burning down a pharmacy which a community needs. Using a tragic death as an excuse to commit crimes. Yeah I don't hold those folks up on a mantle. I guess it's ok if you want to excuse it or justify it.

Thankfully the good citizens came out the next few nights.

Oh if only it could have been Geraldo.
That guy just bugs the shit out of me.

 

[demlion]

Sucker punching reporters because they are white. Burning down a pharmacy which a community needs. Using a tragic death as an excuse to commit crimes. Yeah I don't hold those folks up on a mantle. I guess it's ok if you want to excuse it or justify it.

Thankfully the good citizens came out the next few nights.

I dont hold them up I just don't call them animals. It seems uncouth.

 

[psufan9808]

The answer is actually all 3. If you 1) use excessive force because you can (not proven in this case although it may be when all evidence is thoroughly examined); or if you 2) react to a perceived injustice with mass violence and lawlessness (evidence is substantial); or if you 3) stoke the flames of violence, undermine the rule of law, and exploit this tragedy and the people associated with it for political gain, then you are an animal.

If you think that supporting/rationalizing the mass lawlessness and violence that is hurting all of Baltimore is right, then you are either incredibly short-sighted, emotionally driven and irrational, dumb, or un-American. You choose which category you best fit. But what is good for this Country, for Baltimore, for the family of the victim, for all minorities is to admit that the senseless destruction, attacking of police, and looting is NEVER JUSTIFIED. If you are civilized, you don't behave this way.

Lastly, while we argue our preconceived notions of right and wrong in this case, it is highly probable that the response has been a politically coordinated event to either change the narrative or to accomplish some political objective while the puppets have their eyes on the latest shiny object.

 

[Aoshiro]

Lastly, while we argue our preconceived notions of right and wrong in this case, it is highly probable that the response has been a politically coordinated event to either change the narrative or to accomplish some political objective while the puppets have their eyes on the latest shiny object.

Or, hey, it could be that there is enough evidence that the policemen are indeed responsible for the death of an unarmed, shackled person in their custody that they deserved to be charged.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

The answer is actually all 3. If you 1) use excessive force because you can (not proven in this case although it may be when all evidence is thoroughly examined); or if you 2) react to a perceived injustice with mass violence and lawlessness (evidence is substantial); or if you 3) stoke the flames of violence, undermine the rule of law, and exploit this tragedy and the people associated with it for political gain, then you are an animal.

If you think that supporting/rationalizing the mass lawlessness and violence that is hurting all of Baltimore is right, then you are either incredibly short-sighted, emotionally driven and irrational, dumb, or un-American. You choose which category you best fit. But what is good for this Country, for Baltimore, for the family of the victim, for all minorities is to admit that the senseless destruction, attacking of police, and looting is NEVER JUSTIFIED. If you are civilized, you don't behave this way.

Lastly, while we argue our preconceived notions of right and wrong in this case, it is highly probable that the response has been a politically coordinated event to either change the narrative or to accomplish some political objective while the puppets have their eyes on the latest shiny object.

Just on one point, the one you listed first. I don't think that excessive force is the issue, though there are assault, murder and manslaughter charges. I, for one, have not mentioned excessive force.....and I don't recall the prosecutor using those words. Perhaps my recollection is hazy on that. I would have to go back and watch the whole 20 minutes again.....It may, indeed, turn out that they used excessive force in the course of the homocide/assault(s)/manslaughter. IDK.

I see it more as a case of callous disregard for a person in their custody who they falsely arrested. Anyway, that is what I got out of the PC.

 

[psufan9808]

The point is that you are listening to a press conference which may or may not be presenting accurate or complete information. Recall Freeh giving a press conference that everyone bought every word.

 

[psufan9808]

Or, hey, it could be that there is enough evidence that the policemen are indeed responsible for the death of an unarmed, shackled person in their custody that they deserved to be charged.

It could be....but it may also not be. I do know that charges have been put out there by some people under extreme pressure to do so and perhaps undue political influence.

 

[psufan9808]

Again, no matter % blame is assigned to police in this tragedy, IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY the mass violence and lawlessness. What kind of person are you if you rationalize burning your own city, undermining the law, and looting? What kind of person are you if you stoke the flames of hatred and racism for political benefit?

If you want to help the people of Baltimore and every city, you should hold those committing crimes against their neighbors accountable for their actions.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Again, no matter % blame is assigned to police in this tragedy, IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY the mass violence and lawlessness. What kind of person are you if you rationalize burning your own city, undermining the law, and looting? What kind of person are you if you stoke the flames of hatred and racism for political benefit?

If you want to help the people of Baltimore and every city, you should hold those committing crimes against their neighbors accountable for their actions.

Well, people have been arrested and charged for that.

And, other people have been arrested and charged for what they did to a guy they were sworn to protect.

 

[Aoshiro]

It could be....but it may also not be. I do know that charges have been put out there by some people under extreme pressure to do so and perhaps undue political influence.

And I know that an unarmed person died in police custody

Again, no matter % blame is assigned to police in this tragedy, IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY the mass violence and lawlessness. What kind of person are you if you rationalize burning your own city, undermining the law, and looting? What kind of person are you if you stoke the flames of hatred and racism for political benefit?

If you want to help the people of Baltimore and every city, you should hold those committing crimes against their neighbors accountable for their actions.

You're in the wrong thread. This is a thread about the charges that have been filed against police officers so that they can be held accountable for their actions. What kind of person are you if you keep trying to divert attention from a homicide?

 

[psufan9808]

All should be accountable to include the police and they will have their day in a court of law. I have addressed that and my position is to let the facts bear out before a predetermined outcome becomes a rally cry to commit further injustices.

But the cheerleading against police is a rationalization for senseless acts that followed whereby hundreds or thousands of crimes were committed against neighbors and neighborhoods. You are trying to justify a criminal response for which there is no justification. You do so in high probability for a political agenda. You are encouraging property and lives being ruined by rationalizing it or at minimum being complicit by ignoring it. Do you even care about those people being hurt by the reaction or do you merely wish to capitalize on their vulnerability in this tragedy?

If you want to help them, you join the rational voices calling the criminal response out. If you seek to exploit these people, by all means continue to fan your flames.

 

[demlion]

Nobody here is cheerleading against the police. One guy is referring to human beings as "animals." that was YOU, and you were clearly saying that the people involved in the street action were animals. You had nothing to say about the cops who at the very least let Gray die in custody. Referring to other humans, especially of other races, as 'animals' is old and shameful thing. You did it--do not come back a few hours later and lecture me about how all these people are the same. they aren't.

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

Try to take a breath and think it through. If all Guy #2 could say was "I heard a few bumps", then the ride wasn't that bad because Guy #2 otherwise would have said that all hell broke loose. Even in his "clarification" statement, he didn't talk about an intentionally rough ride. So, where's the evidence of it? As a Penn State fan, I would think that you would know not to invent convenient facts.

Leaks and alleged lies after the fact don't mean anything to me without a lot more.

Take your blinders off.

It's called a "nickle ride". To stick it to mouthy arrestees police take handcuffed person on a very tough ride in car or van. I believe the second arrestee was picked up after Grey. I believe they thrashed the poor guy around in back of van, stopped to fully restrain him, then continued for second pick up. During the rough ride Grey jammed and broke his neck/back. Since the arrest itself is in question everyone shares some responsibility. Arrest all 6 and the innocent will flip on quilts.

 

[Aoshiro]

All should be accountable to include the police and they will have their day in a court of law. I have addressed that and my position is to let the facts bear out before a predetermined outcome becomes a rally cry to commit further injustices.

But the cheerleading against police is a rationalization for senseless acts that followed whereby hundreds or thousands of crimes were committed against neighbors and neighborhoods. You are trying to justify a criminal response for which there is no justification. You do so in high probability for a political agenda. You are encouraging property and lives being ruined by rationalizing it or at minimum being complicit by ignoring it. Do you even care about those people being hurt by the reaction or do you merely wish to capitalize on their vulnerability in this tragedy?

If you want to help them, you join the rational voices calling the criminal response out. If you seek to exploit these people, by all means continue to fan your flames.

I don't know what's you're talking about, since I have absolutely not tried to justify any "criminal response."
Have you considered taking a remedial reading comprehension class? Maybe PSU World Campus offers something.

 

[psufan9808]

The answer is actually all 3. If you 1) use excessive force because you can (not proven in this case although it may be when all evidence is thoroughly examined); or if you 2) react to a perceived injustice with mass violence and lawlessness (evidence is substantial); or if you 3) stoke the flames of violence, undermine the rule of law, and exploit this tragedy and the people associated with it for political gain, then you are an animal.

If you think that supporting/rationalizing the mass lawlessness and violence that is hurting all of Baltimore is right, then you are either incredibly short-sighted, emotionally driven and irrational, dumb, or un-American. You choose which category you best fit. But what is good for this Country, for Baltimore, for the family of the victim, for all minorities is to admit that the senseless destruction, attacking of police, and looting is NEVER JUSTIFIED. If you are civilized, you don't behave this way.

Lastly, while we argue our preconceived notions of right and wrong in this case, it is highly probable that the response has been a politically coordinated event to either change the narrative or to accomplish some political objective while the puppets have their eyes on the latest shiny object.

Speaking of reading comprehension, demlying, I have qualified who the animals are and what actions have defined that. So that applies to anyone of any race that has committed offenses as I've outlined 1 thru 3 which includes many politically charged white race-baiters in category 3.

Aoshiro, attempting to center the debate around only the initial event and attempting to exclude the thousands of crimes committed in response against people's neighbors and neighborhoods is an attempt to justify the criminal response. You and your political allies have fought hard to rush to a judgment against the police before their day in court with information that the media has spun and officials were under extreme pressure to push while simultaneously giving a complete pass to the inhumane behavior of thousands of people hurting their neighbors. I describe that as cheerleading against the police since they have not had their day in court and you want them convicted now based on only what information you have sought out. And I describe you and your political allies' inability and unwillingness to address the thousands of crimes that occurred after the initial incident as justifying those actions or at worst being complicit to them.

Now, it is absolutely clear that the largest part of the debate is the criminal response, the burning of their own city, the attacks against police, the looting, and the complicit acceptance of these inhumane acts against their own neighbors and neighborhoods. Do you still deny the existence of these acts, that they are not independent or unimportant to the issue, or that this inhumane behavior is the central piece of the discussion? Don't you think a city complicit with inhumane behavior for years with politicians that undermine the power of the police through the court system that perhaps that in itself could spur new and perhaps even unjust police tactics?

I don't think for a minute that you and your political allies want to help these people. I think you intend to simply exploit the tragedy and push your political agenda in its wake while in high probability trying to accomplish other more messy political goals while the puppets are excited about the shiny object you have in the other hand.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Speaking of reading comprehension, demlying, I have qualified who the animals are and what actions have defined that. So that applies to anyone of any race that has committed offenses as I've outlined 1 thru 3 which includes many politically charged white race-baiters in category 3.

Aoshiro, attempting to center the debate around only the initial event and attempting to exclude the thousands of crimes committed in response against people's neighbors and neighborhoods is an attempt to justify the criminal response. You and your political allies have fought hard to rush to a judgment against the police before their day in court with information that the media has spun and officials were under extreme pressure to push while simultaneously giving a complete pass to the inhumane behavior of thousands of people hurting their neighbors. I describe that as cheerleading against the police since they have not had their day in court and you want them convicted now based on only what information you have sought out. And I describe you and your political allies' inability and unwillingness to address the thousands of crimes that occurred after the initial incident as justifying those actions or at worst being complicit to them.

Now, it is absolutely clear that the largest part of the debate is the criminal response, the burning of their own city, the attacks against police, the looting, and the complicit acceptance of these inhumane acts against their own neighbors and neighborhoods. Do you still deny the existence of these acts, that they are not independent or unimportant to the issue, or that this inhumane behavior is the central piece of the discussion? Don't you think a city complicit with inhumane behavior for years with politicians that undermine the power of the police through the court system that perhaps that in itself could spur new and perhaps even unjust police tactics?

I don't think for a minute that you and your political allies want to help these people. I think you intend to simply exploit the tragedy and push your political agenda in its wake while in high probability trying to accomplish other more messy political goals while the puppets are excited about the shiny object you have in the other hand.

I, frankly, don't see the politics of it. That is likely because I am not watching endless loops of fires while somebody is spouting manipulative propaganda over them.

What I see is a guy who was mortally injured while in the custody of people who were sworn to protect him.

If you have concluded that is a political opinion, rather than an actual fact, then I suppose there is no reasoning with you.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

I, frankly, don't see the politics of it. That is likely because I am not watching endless loops of fires while somebody is spouting manipulative propaganda over them.

What I see is a guy who was mortally injured while in the custody of people who were sworn to protect him. There is just no way to justify THAT. You ought to be worrying about how THAT is justifiable.

If you have concluded that is a political opinion, rather than an actual fact, then I suppose there is no reasoning with you.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

I, frankly, don't see the politics of it. That is likely because I am not watching endless loops of fires while somebody is spouting manipulative propaganda over them.

What I see is four paragraphs of blather in which you mention politics several times. You.

What I see is a guy who was mortally injured while in the custody of people who were sworn to protect him.

If you have concluded that is a political opinion, rather than an actual fact, then I suppose there is no reasoning with you.

 

[rifraf]

Interesting observation, yet no one here has said such a thing, so it's not pertinent.

A number of points have been made:

1. It appears that no one saw/knew that Gray had a serious spine injury.
2. No one saw a "rough ride"
3. Different details of cops came on the scene at different times, and no one had perfect knowledge about what was going on.

So, again, this whole thing is easily explainable by a series of screw ups, and it takes a whole lot of creativity to imagine that 6 different cops set out that day to persecute their snitch, ultimately murdering him. Those of us who learned our lesson from Louis Freeh know to assume that the simple explanation applies, and not some crazy conspiracy theory that the press, the prosecutor and some dingbats on this board are peddling. Hey, maybe the conspiracy theory will turn out to be right, but we're going to need a whole lot more evidence before we get there.

No one is alleging a conspiracy - not sure where are getting that from. Two of the three bike officers that originally arrested Gray are charged with assault and improper arrest. The third is also charged with man slaughter (not sure why his charge is different - maybe failure to secure Gray in the van). The basis is an illegal stop and no illegal knife as reported. Separately two additional officers who interacted with Gray/van are charged with manslaughter plus other charges for failing to aid Gray despite his request for help and being in obvious distress. The most significant charge was for the van driver who was charged with depraved indifference murder because he did not provide aid to Gray despite his obvious distress. Clearly there is a lot of additional facts to be determined at trial but your assertion that Gray's death is either a series of non criminal screw-ups or a conspiracy is nuts. The determination is whether those screw-ups by the individual actions of six officers are criminal. The prosecutor believes the officers actions were criminal and we will see what a jury thinks. A healthy man who committed no crime is dead when in the care and custody of police. (And btw, running from the police is not a crime but it can be probable cause. Since the charge reported by the bike officers was false, knife was not illegal, those officers were charged with assault and illegal arrest.)

Interesting observation, yet no one here has said such a thing, so it's not pertinent.

A number of points have been made:

1. It appears that no one saw/knew that Gray had a serious spine injury.
2. No one saw a "rough ride"
3. Different details of cops came on the scene at different times, and no one had perfect knowledge about what was going on.

So, again, this whole thing is easily explainable by a series of screw ups, and it takes a whole lot of creativity to imagine that 6 different cops set out that day to persecute their snitch, ultimately murdering him. Those of us who learned our lesson from Louis Freeh know to assume that the simple explanation applies, and not some crazy conspiracy theory that the press, the prosecutor and some dingbats on this board are peddling. Hey, maybe the conspiracy theory will turn out to be right, but we're going to need a whole lot more evidence before we get there.

 

[demlion]

Speaking of reading comprehension, demlying, I have qualified who the animals are and what actions have defined that. So that applies to anyone of any race that has committed offenses as I've outlined 1 thru 3 which includes many politically charged white race-baiters in category 3.

Yeah, but you had to be dragged kicking and screaming away from calling black people animals. It was plain as day who you meant that code word to cover. Plain as day.