Don't forget we had Trace who was clutch. Have yet to see Allar rise up like that in a big game.
BiG Position Ratings
- Thread starter bdgan
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You play the games because they're scheduled. We shouldn't be losing to Iowa 30% of the time. Same with Wisconsin.
If that's the expectation, which I don't think it is currently, then Franklin needs to go. Losing to them 1 out of 10 moving forward would be disappointing.
No team on our level should expect to beat Iowa and Wisconsin just 70% of the time. That's just ridiculous. This isn't the 80s or 90s. You reload you don't rebuild. There's no "it's a building year for next year". You beat everyone on your schedule that you're supposed to 4 out of 5 years while winning at least half the toss up games and you have to beat Ohio State occasionally. Once every 4-6 years.
Losing to teams like Iowa 30% of the time means we've failed miserably. The goal is to be elite not mediocre. The last two years are moving is in the right direction. Less than 10 wins this year shouldn't be tolerated. Lose to Ohio State and one of the two toss up games. Go 0-3 in those games or lose to someone else there's problems.
It helps to have depth at all positions so opponents can't focus on just one or two. But the answer to your question is YES.
PSU has played Wisconsin 14 times since 2001 and they lost 5 of those games. They did win the last 5.
PSU has played Iowa 17 times since 2001 and they lost 9 of those games. They did win the last 4.
We've actually lost 45% of those games since 2021 but I recognize that 2001-2004 were the dark years and that we've done better recently.
No, no he wasn't. Trace is probably the most overrated player in Penn State history. At least the last 30-40 years.
And that wasn't acceptable during that time. We're discussing the present and the future not past unacceptable results.
Winning the last 5 and 4 respectively must continue.
Bad take. He had OSU beaten in '17 and '18 if not for the horrific defensive collapse. And he probably picks up the first in '18 on that egregious 4th down run with Sanders.
I was concerned that Trace was too short for a modern day P5 QB but he proved me wrong with his mobility and grit. Allar has yet to show the ability to buy time or scramble for big gains like Trace. Clifford did but not as well as Trace.
Trace was a 3 time second team all BiG, was drafted in the 6th round, and stayed in the league for 5 years. Yet you call him the most overrated player in PSU history?
Yes...not the biggest disappointment. The person fans make into someone far superior to what he was on the field. He's also the type if QB the NFL.wants to be their 3rd or 4th guy because he's mobile.
Trace seems like a great guy and he overachieved. Great story. Not a great player. Not clutch. He hindered us while Barkley was here and that was more apparent once Barkley left. Not his fault. He gave his all but he wasn't very good. Many here just like any mobile QB honestly
Ideally but I think that's optimistic currently. I'd be happy at 20% if we are significantly higher than that against Oregon Washington USC and Michigan without Harbaugh
With Franklin it is optimistic because he has lowered expectations. We should be able to beat them 3 out of 10.
You think expectations are lower now than the last couple decades under Paterno? I dont. If anything I think they're higher.
I didn't factor in transfers. My point is simply that with PSU's resources and talent level I believe that they should beat the lowest tier of BiG teams 90% of the time, they should beat the middle tier of teams 65% of the time, and they should be the top tier of teams 30% of the time. There's nothing scientific about those percentages but they seem reasonable. I think a team with 12th ranked classes should have enough talent to beat teams with 5th ranked classes 30% of the time. The talent level is close enough for that to happen, especially when playing at home, in years with more returning seniors, or in years where the higher ranked team has injuries or makes mistakes.
I think PSU has had top 10 talent the last few years, mostly on the strength of their 6th ranked class from 2022. That class included Allen, Singleton. Sutton, Carter, and Allar. I also think PSU has done well in the portal by picking up kids like Ebiketie & Chop. But typically PSU has been closer to 11th-15th in talent. I'm concerned that PSU will be limited to that 11-15 range going forward because of NIL money. They have a lot more than most schools but not nearly as much as teams like Oregon or OSU.
95-99% bottom tier. Losing to anyone in that tier moving forward shouldn't be tolerated barring a freak storm or something that levels the playing field
85-90%...beating the mid tier should be almost automatic and if we lose we should be pissed.
Honestly if over the next 10-15 years if we're losing to the mid tier Big Ten teams 3-4 times out of 10 we better be on our 5th coach because that's not okay
That's dumb. Name a single school in the nation that beats its conference's bottom tier 95-99% and the mid-tier at 85-90%. That school does not exist. It's an unachievable threshold.
Trace was 3 times all BiG second team. I'd be very happy if PSU always had the second best QB in the BiG.
99% is ridiculous. We lost to Toledo. Michigan lost to Appalachian State. Maybe 95%, I was using round numbers when I said 90%.
It's also unreasonable to think we should win 90% of games vs teams like Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Iowa. 90% is a nice goal but those teams often recruit in the top 25 and the games aren't always gimmes. In fact last year Nebraska's class was ranked #18 and Wisconsin's class was ranked #23.
He is setting unreal expectations that no team in the country can meet so that later he can chicken little any loss as if it can't happen. Ohio St was blown out by Purdue a few years ago. Just last year a UVA team that hadn't won an FBS game by week 8, knocked off undefeated at the time UNC. Upsets do happen. But Lando wants to be able to pounce on PSU should we ever get stung by one.
We absolutely should beat Wisconsin Iowa and Michigan State 9 out of 10 times. Does Ohio State?
Ohio State lost to Purdue...but that should happen again for about a decade or more. That's the point.
UNC wasn't legit nor are they close to us.
I literally said it happens occasionally. As long as that is the case there's nothing to pounce on. Trust me, if we lose to someone midtier this year I won't be the one leading the charge with complaints.
They don't play Purdue every year. Now they play them probably every other year. It should be a once in 2 decades thing using your metric.
Also, Ohio St lost to a traditionally mid to low-tier SEC team last year as well as Michigan. Plus Ohio St got blown out by a mid-tier Iowa the year before they were blown out by a mid-tier Purdue. It seems to happen more frequently than you realize.
Paterno won 2 BiG titles in his last 6 full seasons. I think a lot of fans hoped for better than 1 in 10 years under Franklin.
I don't think many expected much early on from him. I also no longer care about conference titles honestly. Win 10+ and get into the playoff. That's the only goal.
Ohio State lost to Purdue 3 times since 2009 for an overall record of 5-3. 7-3 in the last 10 meetings. 5-1 in the last decade good for only 83%. Purdue is known as the Buckeye spoilermakers for a reason. Expecting a 99% win percentage against anyone you play regularly is a very unrealistic expectation.
Wow, didn't realize that it was THAT bad. I just remember the last one where the Buckeyes were losing and appeared to quit.
You also need to consider the impact of the sanction years and rebuilding afterwards. So 2012-> approx 2015 need to be calculated.
If so, they are pretty stupid. The sanctions had a tremendous impact that took years to overcome. And some, including me, believe the scandal still has some impact. Lots of people haven’t forgotten.
And some of those weren't acceptable years for Ohio State
You all seems to ignore the gap between the haves and have nots is getting larger not smaller. If Ohio State loses to Purdue 3 times over the next 50 years it would be surprising. Upsets will still happen. They'll just be more infrequent.
A 50-year projection??
How absurd to make such a projection that not many here will even be around to check on, and to believe that you have some extraordinary ability to forecast the future.
It's no wonder you are on "ignore" with so many posters. What an egotistical blowhard.
Yeah, I had to go back and look but their last year with more than a 2-loss season goes back to 2011 ----- the year of the Tattoo-Gate scandal when they had several top players leave and the firing of that sleazy HC Tressel. In fact, I read (on Eleven Warriors) that they've only had 2 losing seasons since the mid 1960s, one of them that 2011 season when they went 6-7
Interesting. A minor scandal with minor punishments caused them to have the only losing season in 60 years. Yet we get rocked with the worst scandal in college football history and people expect us go shrug it off and snd still challenge for natties on a regular basis.
I think more than the punishments, the OSU players that left were more crippling including Terrelle Pryor, Boom Herron and quite a few more. I believe - not sure - they were the ones involved in Tattoo-gate stuff. And keep in mind, that scumbag Tressel was also fired for lying.
Anyone that thinks the PSU punishments were minor and PSU should have still been good is just delusional. No program could have survived that
The last several Ohio St coaches have been fired at some point after being caught for cheating. The transgression it seems is that they got caught.
18 year old kids were 5 years old when the Sandusky scandal surfaced. IMO prospects care about these things:
- Money
- Early playing time
- Who can get them to the NFL
- Facilities/environment
- Close to home
But it is still brought up on social media, sports sites, recruiting wars, even family discussions. To say it has no or very little impact us denying reality.
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