Bowl $ from 2014

[91Joe95]

Unsurprisingly, some of you folks can't tell when you've won.

Please, tell us all what we won.

 

[lipbalm]

We won nothing, we our still out of two more years of BOWL money.

 

[lein]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all conference schools get a share of the revenue whether they go to a bowl or not?

Yup and the conference was not denied income as the bowls are contracted and revenue guaranteed

 

[BobPSU92]

On a side note, no surprise that espn didn't report this. Meanwhile, NBC and SI did.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...nstate-penn-states-bowl-revenue-a-year-early/

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/06/07/penn-state-big-ten-bowl-revenue-share

 

[bxle]

We won nothing, we our still out of two more years of BOWL money.

I would like to get all money needed to support our student athletes that is owed. Money could come from next year's (or future year's) bowl payout where PSU gets the money owed and other members get less. This would be fair.

If this happened, it would not be a 'win'. I'm sure that Indiana or Purdue don't consider getting their share a win. Why should we.

 

[psuro]

So, I liken this to a client who finally pays his invoice - albeit very late. He says "Hey, I just paid your invoice - you should be happy." When in actuality, all he did was give us the money he owed us.

 

[kgilbert78]

Where the money went has no bearing on the issue. The Conference had no business getting involved in a civil issue! What you're implying is that it is okay to do wrong as long as your intentions are good. No, wrong is wrong and should be punished when it happens. The Conference can donate the money with other funds or from taking equal shares from all members except Maryland and Rutgers.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that the conference was wrong. But PSU looks bad in the eyes of the public by demanding money back that went to the specific cause that in the public's mind PSU is guilty of. At this time there are more important things to deal with.

 

[mbahses]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that the conference was wrong. But PSU looks bad in the eyes of the public by demanding money back that went to the specific cause that in the public's mind PSU is guilty of. At this time there are more important things to deal with.

The other stolen 9 million will off set Freeh's bullshit. The BigTen needs to cough it up.

 

[mbahses]

Wolf's extra 47.5 million offsets the bogus money sanction. We're still 62.5 mil in the hole, until we see how these "victims" were found to be credible, especially Matt Sandusky.

 

[bxle]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that the conference was wrong. But PSU looks bad in the eyes of the public by demanding money back that went to the specific cause that in the public's mind PSU is guilty of. At this time there are more important things to deal with.

I am not suggesting that any less money go to charities. PSU should recoup money unfairly taken from future bowl payouts. This would be a win for all B1G members knowing that their money went to support such great causes.

 

[JmmyW]

As soon as the NCAA restored PSU's bowl eligibility in September 2014, the basis for the BigTen's fine was moot. The BigTen had argued "Because Penn State is ineligible for bowl games for the next four years, it will therefore be ineligible to receive its share of Big Ten Conference revenues over those same four years."

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...-11-million-for-bowl-shares-in-14-15,1460802/

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/072312aaa.html

However, even that initial argument was faulty. The Big Ten website states all conference schools share in bowl revenue and nothing easily found suggests an ineligible team won't receive its share. In fact, Ohio State received its share in 2012 while ineligible.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...io-state-buckeyes-eligible-big-ten-bowl-purse





Other statements from the Big Ten:

'We'll reserve judgment until all information from the various [legal] proceedings is made available.' -Delaney, 7/11/2012

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/52941/b1g-to-study-freeh-report-continue-review

Following a thorough review of the Freeh Report, the BigTen has voted to impose additional sanctions. 7/23/2012

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/072312aaa.html



While not Penn State related, these Delany quotes could easily apply:

'It’s too early for any narrative to be fully developed.' -Delaney

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...scouraged-following-big-tens-dismal-saturday/

"Sometimes narratives overcome the facts." -Jim Delaney

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...n-tide-osu-faces-oregon-national-title-010215

"You want to make sure the narrative and the facts are aligned at the end." -Jim Delaney

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...scouraged-following-big-tens-dismal-saturday/

 

[Bushwood CC]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that the conference was wrong. But PSU looks bad in the eyes of the public by demanding money back that went to the specific cause that in the public's mind PSU is guilty of. At this time there are more important things to deal with.

Really, there's more important things than recovering millions of dollars owed to PSU and illegally withheld by a corrupt, arrogant, capricious entity, who had ZERO authority to do what they did, when PSU is experiencing massive budgetary problems across the university departments and student tuition is rising precipitously??? But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than Trustees violating their FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS and illegally handing out hundreds of millions of dollars depriving the NAMED BENEFICIARIES OF PSU of these sums which is a clear violation of Pennsylvania Law according to none other than the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania! But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than corrupt Fiduciaries acting in concert with other corrupt organizations to fleece PSU, a Public Entity owned by the Public Trust of Pennsylvania, of hundreds of millions of dollars??? You are so full of $hit, it isn't even funny - this is at the heart of the biggest issue afflicting PSU...corruption of the most evil and incideous kind, narcissism, arrogance and self-serving hypocrisy & largess.

 

[Art]

Really, there's more important things than recovering millions of dollars owed to PSU and illegally withheld by a corrupt, arrogant, capricious entity, who had ZERO authority to do what they did, when PSU is experiencing massive budgetary problems across the university departments and student tuition is rising precipitously??? But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than Trustees violating their FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS and illegally handing out hundreds of millions of dollars depriving the NAMED BENEFICIARIES OF PSU of these sums which is a clear violation of Pennsylvania Law according to none other than the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania! But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than corrupt Fiduciaries acting in concert with other corrupt organizations to fleece PSU, a Public Entity owned by the Public Trust of Pennsylvania, of hundreds of millions of dollars??? You are so full of $hit, it isn't even funny - this is at the heart of the biggest issue afflicting PSU...corruption of the most evil and incideous mind, narcissism, arrogance and self-serving hypocrisy & largess.

What is this "Public Trust of Pennsylvania" thingie?

 

[Bushwood CC]

What is this "Public Trust of Pennsylvania" thingie?

The Pennsylvania State University is deeded in perpituity to the Public Trust via its founding Charter as the named beneficiary institution by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania under the Federal Morrill Land Grant Act of 1862.

 

[kgilbert78]

Really, there's more important things than recovering millions of dollars owed to PSU and illegally withheld by a corrupt, arrogant, capricious entity, who had ZERO authority to do what they did, when PSU is experiencing massive budgetary problems across the university departments and student tuition is rising precipitously??? But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than Trustees violating their FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS and illegally handing out hundreds of millions of dollars depriving the NAMED BENEFICIARIES OF PSU of these sums which is a clear violation of Pennsylvania Law according to none other than the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania! But according to you, PSU has bigger things to worry about than corrupt Fiduciaries acting in concert with other corrupt organizations to fleece PSU, a Public Entity owned by the Public Trust of Pennsylvania, of hundreds of millions of dollars??? You are so full of $hit, it isn't even funny - this is at the heart of the biggest issue afflicting PSU...corruption of the most evil and incideous kind, narcissism, arrogance and self-serving hypocrisy & largess.

Athletics has nothing to do with funding in the rest of the university. They are completely separate budgets. NONE of the bowl monies would go to any other university department other than athletics. And I am specifically and only talking about the bowl revenues. Not a d*mm thing else. The other stuff you are talking about has nothing to do with that. And you know it. That half the problem with this board. If you don't march in lockstep on every issue down to the fine points, then someone goes ballistic.

I am very concerned about the BOT and the goings on there. That's the battle we should be focusing on. And I've made my displeasure known, repeatedly and in writing to those authorities--and on this board. And I've not given a dime to the university since all of this has been made clear. Including THON. Specifically for the reasons of the fiscal irresponsibility the BOT has shown.

Finally you have completely misrepresented my statement. Disagree with me, fine. Misrepresenting me is something else. That's no way to have a proper debate of the issues.

We will not win friends in the public arena by fighting this at this time. But as the NCAA and conference retreat on their points one by one, that will gain us sympathy in our fight at the right time. If we can prove that the NCAA/Big Ten acted maliciously--then I say go after them. That information--if it exists--will come out in the Paterno trial and perhaps the CCS trials. I can wait for that.

As far as the BOT is concerned the biggest fight is getting them OUT. Once that is done, then other things can happen.

 

[Bushwood CC]

The Pennsylvania State University is deeded in perpituity to the Public Trust via its founding Charter as the named beneficiary institution by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania under the Federal Morrill Land Grant Act of 1862.

And as such, the OAG of Pennsylvania has jurisdiction over the potential MISUSE of funds and resources of The Pennsylvania State University as both a NPO and a Commonwealth-Owned Public Entity. Just because the Commonwealth decided to set up a Board of Trustees to act as regulated and accountable Fiduciaries on behalf of the Public Trust does not equate in any way to PSU being a "private NPO", quite the opposite IN FACT.

 

[Bushwood CC]

Athletics has nothing to do with funding in the rest of the university. They are completely separate budgets. NONE of the bowl monies would go to any other university department other than athletics. And I am specifically and only talking about the bowl revenues. Not a d*mm thing else. The other stuff you are talking about has nothing to do with that. And you know it. That half the problem with this board. If you don't march in lockstep on every issue down to the fine points, then someone goes ballistic.

I am very concerned about the BOT and the goings on there. That's the battle we should be focusing on. And I've made my displeasure known, repeatedly and in writing to those authorities--and on this board. And I've not given a dime to the university since all of this has been made clear. Including THON.

Finally you have completely misrepresented my statement. Disagree with me, fine. Misrepresenting me is something else. That's no way to have a proper debate of the issues.

You are full of $hit yet again - there is no legal delineation of funds at The University between the Athletic Department and other Departments. None! It is a completely made up, bull$hit argument conjured from whole clothe - all of the monies and resources belong to The Pennsylvania State University - a NPO owned by, and operated on behalf of, the Public Trust of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania...and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the OAG's Office as to MISUSE OF FUNDS and VIOLATION OF FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS as a licensed and regulated NPO in the Commonwealth as well as under Public Trust Doctrine within the Commonwealth.

 

[kgilbert78]

You are full of $hit yet again - there is no legal delineation of funds at The University between the Athletic Department and other Departments. None! It is a completely made up, bull$hit argument conjured from whole clothe - all of the monies and resources belong to The Pennsylvania State University - a NPO owned by, and operated on behalf of, the Public Trust of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania...and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the OAG's Office as to MISUSE OF FUNDS and VIOLATION OF FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS as a licensed and regulated NPO in the Commonwealth as well as under Public Trust Doctrine within the Commonwealth.

Proof please. There may be a certain amount of fungibility, of course, as there may be items that have multiple uses. For one, I expect athletics uses the same payroll system as the rest of the school. But athletics at Penn State is a self-supporting unit--and has been for a long time. They are split out (along with some other departments).

See http://budget.psu.edu/openbudget/SelectionMenuBudget.Asp?FundType=03&Type=B&FY=20142015

"Auxiliary Enterprise funds are completely self-supporting activities with income derived from sales of services or products. No student tuition or state appropriations are used to support auxiliary enterprises. Examples include: The Nittany Lion Inn, Intercollegiate Athletics, and Housing and Food Services."

It's not hard to look this up. Look like legal delineation to me.

Now, as to your argument that the university is part of the Public Trust and that they are subject to the OAG in every area? That's a different argument. It may or may not have merit. I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one. But again, we fight these things by changing the BOT--or by getting the legislature (or courts) to step in. Not by having Penn State's administration being petty about the the two years of bowl money that was taken. Not *AT THIS TIME*.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[Art]

The Pennsylvania State University is deeded in perpituity to the Public Trust via its founding Charter as the named beneficiary institution by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania under the Federal Morrill Land Grant Act of 1862.

Think you need thicker layers of tin foil.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

But again, we fight these things by changing the BOT--or by getting the legislature (or courts) to step in. Not by having Penn State's administration being petty about the the two years of bowl money that was taken. Not *AT THIS TIME*.

I don't follow this argument at all. I think we are capable to fight both issues at the same time and the longer the theft of bowl money issue is put off, the harder it will be to get retribution. Unfortunately, delay usually means lower chance of success.

This is a two pronged issue, we deserve our money and this Conference needs to be reigned in such that they never pull anything like this in the future. Wrongs need to be corrected!

 

[Bushwood CC]

Proof please. There may be a certain amount of fungibility, of course, as there may be items that have multiple uses. For one, I expect athletics uses the same payroll system as the rest of the school. But athletics at Penn State is a self-supporting unit--and has been for a long time. They are split out (along with some other departments).

See http://budget.psu.edu/openbudget/SelectionMenuBudget.Asp?FundType=03&Type=B&FY=20142015

"Auxiliary Enterprise funds are completely self-supporting activities with income derived from sales of services or products. No student tuition or state appropriations are used to support auxiliary enterprises. Examples include: The Nittany Lion Inn, Intercollegiate Athletics, and Housing and Food Services."

It's not hard to look this up. Look like legal delineation to me.

Now, as to your argument that the university is part of the Public Trust and that they are subject to the OAG in every area? That's a different argument. It may or may not have merit. I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one. But again, we fight these things by changing the BOT--or by getting the legislature (or courts) to step in. Not by having Penn State's administration being petty about the the two years of bowl money that was taken. Not *AT THIS TIME*.

Look, it sounds like we are more-or-less in agreement, and on the same side, regarding the cancer which currently afflicts our beloved University - namely the disgraceful moral-hypocrisy, zero-integrity, no-character narcissism and self-serving cowardice of the Executive Committee of the BOT (Board of Thieves, Charlatans & Whores). So I'll try not to hit too hard...but you simply are not correct. There is only ONE, one and only one, State-Chartered NPO known as The Pennsylvania State University...e.g., there is only one legal entity and one legal "mission" that entitles it to its "Charitable & Non-Profit Organization" status. All of the NPO's activities fall under the Commonwealth's regulation and licensing - an area that falls under the OAG in regards to "Charitable & Nonprofit Organizations" (in fact, the OAG has an entire division dedicated to this State Mandate with three field offices across the Commonwealth dedicated to the registration and regulation of Charitable & Non-Profit Organizations). There is no segregation of the regulation of PSU by the Commonwealth - 100% of the resources and funds must be used to support the beneficiaries and mission of the NPO and if funds are used in a manner that deprives these beneficiaries of their use, and not in the "best interest" of these beneficiaries, it is a violation of Pennsylvania Law and the Trustees FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS and is actionable by the OAG of the State of Pennsylvania.

 

[Art]

Look, it sounds like we are more-or-less in agreement, and on the same side, regarding the cancer which currently afflicts our beloved University - namely the disgraceful moral-hypocrisy, zero-integrity, no-character narcissism and self-serving cowardice of the Executive Committee of the BOT (Board of Thieves, Charlatans & Whores). So I'll try not to hit too hard...but you simply are not correct. There is only ONE, one and only one, State-Chartered NPO known as The Pennsylvania State University...e.g., there is only one legal entity and one legal "mission" that entitles it to its "Charitable & Non-Profit Organization" status. All of the NPO's activities fall under the Commonwealth's regulation and licensing - an area that falls under the OAG in regards to "Charitable & Nonprofit Organizations" (in fact, the OAG has an entire division dedicated to this State Mandate with three field offices across the Commonwealth dedicated to the registration and regulation of Charitable & Non-Profit Organizations). There is no segregation of the regulation of PSU by the Commonwealth - 100% of the resources and funds must be used to support the beneficiaries and mission of the NPO and if funds are used in a manner that deprives these beneficiaries of their use, and not in the "best interest" of these beneficiaries, it is a violation of Pennsylvania Law and the Trustees FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS and is actionable by the OAG of the State of Pennsylvania.

Amazing what a stay at a Holiday Inn can do.

 

[91Joe95]

Proof please. There may be a certain amount of fungibility, of course, as there may be items that have multiple uses. For one, I expect athletics uses the same payroll system as the rest of the school. But athletics at Penn State is a self-supporting unit--and has been for a long time. They are split out (along with some other departments).

See http://budget.psu.edu/openbudget/SelectionMenuBudget.Asp?FundType=03&Type=B&FY=20142015

"Auxiliary Enterprise funds are completely self-supporting activities with income derived from sales of services or products. No student tuition or state appropriations are used to support auxiliary enterprises. Examples include: The Nittany Lion Inn, Intercollegiate Athletics, and Housing and Food Services."

It's not hard to look this up. Look like legal delineation to me.

Now, as to your argument that the university is part of the Public Trust and that they are subject to the OAG in every area? That's a different argument. It may or may not have merit. I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one. But again, we fight these things by changing the BOT--or by getting the legislature (or courts) to step in. Not by having Penn State's administration being petty about the the two years of bowl money that was taken. Not *AT THIS TIME*.

Erickson admitted in his deposition that all monies are fungible.

 

[bjf1984]

Erickson admitted in his deposition that all monies are fungible.

 

[dawgduice]

From the Big 10? Well too little too late. Actually, the Big's FEAR of losing PSU led to the inclusion of Rutgers and Maryland and now a "restoration" of funds they should not have taken in the first place. Everyone loves to pile on ??? NO, just a crummy few.

 

[Colorado Man]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all conference schools get a share of the revenue whether they go to a bowl or not?

Yes, but PSU was not receiving a dime. Their share of the bowl revenue was to be distributed to charity.

 

[Art]

From the Big 10? Well too little too late. Actually, the Big's FEAR of losing PSU led to the inclusion of Rutgers and Maryland and now a "restoration" of funds they should not have taken in the first place. Everyone loves to pile on ??? NO, just a crummy few.

Yeah, that was happening with the Big Ten owning PSU's first- and second-tier media rights through 2032.

 

[kgilbert78]

I don't follow this argument at all. I think we are capable to fight both issues at the same time and the longer the theft of bowl money issue is put off, the harder it will be to get retribution. Unfortunately, delay usually means lower chance of success.

This is a two pronged issue, we deserve our money and this Conference needs to be reigned in such that they never pull anything like this in the future. Wrongs need to be corrected!

And that may well happen. Down the road. You cannot fight all battles at once. Or so I've heard from my friends who are parents.

When we have more info from the Paterno suit and when we get the BOT changed and after CSS have had their trials, then we may have enough info to revisit this. There may well be a smoking gun in there--and there may not be. But for the university to fight this--right now? No, not at this time.

 

[91Joe95]

And that may well happen. Down the road. You cannot fight all battles at once. Or so I've heard from my friends who are parents.

When we have more info from the Paterno suit and when we get the BOT changed and after CSS have had their trials, then we may have enough info to revisit this. There may well be a smoking gun in there--and there may not be. But for the university to fight this--right now? No, not at this time.

I'm sorry, but on this issue the university has all of the info, and more importantly, a valid contract with the B10. All they have to do is say boo, and the B10 would start writing the check.

 

[kgilbert78]

I'm sorry, but on this issue the university has all of the info, and more importantly, a valid contract with the B10. All they have to do is say boo, and the B10 would start writing the check.

Doubtful. Very doubtful.

 

[Evan Ceg]

I'm with kgilbert78 on this one.

The restoration of Penn State's share of B1G bowl revenues from last season makes sense because we were eligible to participate in the bowl games. In the previous two seasons, we were not eligible due to alleged mistakes made by Penn State that, while frequently challenged, have not yet been disproven as a matter of public legal record.

Regardless, there's nothing that posters here can do to retrieve the earlier bowl payouts. What we can do, and most certainly should do, is for every Penn Stater resident in Pennsylvania to pro-actively support Yudichak's BoT reform bill. It's not a perfect bill in that the BoT is still too large, IMO, but it is so much better than the BoT structure now in place. Further, it would likely lead to the toppling of the remaining Old Guard trustees. If you really want to make things better for Penn State, stop whining on message boards about matters over which you have no control and get out and push your assemblyman/assemblywomen to vote for Yudichaks' bill.

 

[Bushwood CC]

Erickson admitted in his deposition that all monies are fungible.

Yes, "monies in" are fungible as to how the NPO wants to account for them, but as a State-Chartered and State-Owned NPO "monies out" ARE NOT fungible - they must be used to support the stated mission - and in the best interests, and sole benefit, of the beneficiaries - of the State-Chartered and regulated NPO in question. The Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania was quite clear about this in Corman & McCord v NCAA. Depriving the NPO and it's beneficiaries of the assets and funds by using them outside of the NPO's stated mission and beneficiaries is a dereliction of Fiduciary Duty and would be subject to potential action by the Pennsylvania OAG.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

The restoration of Penn State's share of B1G bowl revenues from last season makes sense because we were eligible to participate in the bowl games.

Every year some of the Conference's teams are not eligible for bowl games but they still get their share. Furthermore, OSU was not eligible for bowl games because of sanctions and did get their share of bowl revenue.

" In the previous two seasons, we were not eligible due to alleged mistakes made by Penn State that, while frequently challenged, have not yet been disproven as a matter of public legal record."

What is not debatable is that PSU was never tried and convicted in this civil case - and it is not debatable that the Conference nor the NCAA has no business getting into civil cases. In civil cases the law investigates, determines guilt and punishment. No guilt or punishment has been established.

If you really want to make things better for Penn State, stop whining on message boards about matters over which you have no control and get out and push your assemblyman/assemblywomen to vote for Yudichaks' bill.

If we don't push the matter of bowl money theft, we won't get justice. I think we can push this bowl money issue and fight for an improved BOT because we can multi-task.

 

[Art]

Every year some of the Conference's teams are not eligible for bowl games but they still get their share. Furthermore, OSU was not eligible for bowl games because of sanctions and did get their share of bowl revenue.

" In the previous two seasons, we were not eligible due to alleged mistakes made by Penn State that, while frequently challenged, have not yet been disproven as a matter of public legal record."

What is not debatable is that PSU was never tried and convicted in this civil case - and it is not debatable that the Conference nor the NCAA has no business getting into civil cases. In civil cases the law investigates, determines guilt and punishment. No guilt or punishment has been established.



If we don't push the matter of bowl money theft, we won't get justice. I think we can push this bowl money issue and fight for an improved BOT because we can multi-task.

While I agree with you in principle, reality is that PSU didn't get the 2014-15 share of bowl money because it pushed for it; call it an accidental find. My understanding is that the overall efforts made by the administration to have this funding source restored amounted to no more than a gentle nudge.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

While I agree with you in principle, reality is that PSU didn't get the 2014-15 share of bowl money because it pushed for it; call it an accidental find. My understanding is that the overall efforts made by the administration to have this funding source restored amounted to no more than a gentle nudge

Maybe we can give them a more intensive gentle nudge.

↑

 

[91Joe95]

Doubtful. Very doubtful.

A contract is a contract. I have no idea how anyone could dispute PSU would win in a big way if they wanted to.

 

[Art]

A contract is a contract. I have no idea how anyone could dispute PSU would win in a big way if they wanted to.

What contract?

 

[91Joe95]

What contract?

The one they signed when they entered the league (and any updates) that stated what the bylaws, rules, etc. were regarding revenue sharing.

 

[Art]

The one they signed when they entered the league (and any updates) that stated what the bylaws, rules, etc. were regarding revenue sharing.

There was no contract. PSU unilaterally indicated that it accepted membership in the league (contracts require at least two parties). And there are no by-laws or rules that define how revenue is divided. That's done by a vote of the presidents prior to the close of the fiscal year.