All the excitement of the early signing day compared with the performance of the team a couple of weeks later. Quite the contrast. He's a solid recruiter. Can he become a solid head coach?
Can the recruiter Franklin become the head coach Franklin?
- Thread starter dcf4psu
- Start date
He was in back to back NYD BCS bowl games, won the B!G during one of those years, and his down year is 9 wins this year. Could it be some fans are overly dramatic following a loss? I tend to think the answer is yes...fans are overly dramatic during a loss.
Is your bench line that the team should be undefeated going forward? And every loss is evidence the coach is incompetent? Is this really how it is going to be forever? I guess until he wins a MNC, then people will get off his ass.
People have made snarky comments about me disappearing after a loss. This is why. I'm either away from all the sky is falling morons, or I'm here telling the morons that they are morons.
Look at Penn State for the last 25 years. Things are pretty good right now.
Look at Penn State for the last 25 years. Things are pretty good right now.
I agree. Let's get ahold of ourselves. The program was on the abyss six years ago. As late as the beginnings of the 2016 season nobody in his wildest dreams would've predicted our success.
Now for my New Year's wish. I only wish Coach Franklin would surround himself with assistants who are strong tacticians like Joe Morehead. Assistants who pay attention to detail. Combined with his recruiting prowess you've got an unbeatable combination. And I'll just leave it at that.
That is basically it. It's the troll patrol and it's not unique to PSU. Any HC that hasn't won a HC is a moron until he wins one. It's for the dumbest level of fans. 11, 11, 9....with recruiting on the upswing. I seriously wonder why I deal with the "stupids" anymore. Franklin isn't perfect and there are things he does that bother me a little bit, but come on with the he can only recruit BS. Yesterday there is no way if I won the toss do I put UK's defense on the field first as their offense has no passing game. You can set the tone early by getting a stop and putting the offense in a position to score. You are putting the best defensive player in the nation on the field to start the game, when they have a QB that threw for 2400 or so yards all year long. That being said....it's not why PSU lost the game. 16 point swing on special teams is the reason why.
For some reason people here think PSU has Bama's roster or something, they don't. They still have to go out and win games on the field as they aren't loaded with first round players at every level on the field. He is recruiting much better, but they aren't there yet. Dabo was 6-7 in year number 3. Franklin is in year 5, but 2 of the years were with a VERY WATERED down roster. I'm glad they won the B1G 2 years ago, but it looks like he created a bunch of monsters with it. 2 BCS bowls in 3 years and apparently he cannot coach....WTF ever...seriously.
Last edited:
His coaching decisions on the field are terrible. Everyone I'm around knows it and says it. You don't do fake punts right off the bat deep in other teams field of play. He's done this repeatedly. Taking a field goal at the end of a game with 4 min left? I want someone who will play it straight up and knows coaching 101. Stop protecting and white washing poor decision making. He flat out gets too emotional to make sound decisions
Two issues with Franklin regarding the overall problem that I see;
1. Relies on Relationship building/Trust/Friendship/Loyalty and not being the authoritarian Head Coach i.e. Saban. Also why Farmer is often preferred. Why does he do this? My speculation is that he doesn't have anything else to give or offer except for his relationship building. He isn't known for running any particular offense or any tangible-I call it quantifiable football skills. What's concerning now is that it's even harder to ween off this approach as he is not currently in a position of strength with loosing key games.
2. Coaching network-I dont think he has a vast network of good young coaches qualified to take the reins. I believe we are lucky to have Pry-imagine if he didn't have a connection to Pry's father. Also to point #1 Relationship/Loyalty with current coaches...
We all value good traits especially loyalty. I feel running a football program is like the military. It needs and should be objective with one mission in mind. You put the program over yourself not only as head coach or assistant but also as a player. It is the ultimate team sport-not like the NBA or if your Antonio Brown. Take a few concepts from the basics Principles of Military leadership and this is what we are missing;
1. Relies on Relationship building/Trust/Friendship/Loyalty and not being the authoritarian Head Coach i.e. Saban. Also why Farmer is often preferred. Why does he do this? My speculation is that he doesn't have anything else to give or offer except for his relationship building. He isn't known for running any particular offense or any tangible-I call it quantifiable football skills. What's concerning now is that it's even harder to ween off this approach as he is not currently in a position of strength with loosing key games.
2. Coaching network-I dont think he has a vast network of good young coaches qualified to take the reins. I believe we are lucky to have Pry-imagine if he didn't have a connection to Pry's father. Also to point #1 Relationship/Loyalty with current coaches...
We all value good traits especially loyalty. I feel running a football program is like the military. It needs and should be objective with one mission in mind. You put the program over yourself not only as head coach or assistant but also as a player. It is the ultimate team sport-not like the NBA or if your Antonio Brown. Take a few concepts from the basics Principles of Military leadership and this is what we are missing;
- Know yourself and seek self-improvement.
- Be technically and tactically proficient.
- Develop a sense of responsibility among your subordinates.
- Make sound and timely decisions.
- Set an example.
- Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions.
Well for starters he isn't a solid recruiter, he is an elite recruiter. Since half of being a head coach is recruiting I would say he is already at least a solid head coach. He needs to clean up some game day stuff and get better performance from his staff to be a great coach
I don't know why it's unfair to note that JF is a fabulous recruiter, and at the same time suggest that his actual coaching is not at the same level. Making an observation such as this does not mean I am insane, nor an overreactor. It's not like yesterday's coaching performance was an anomaly. We are at the point where we almost expect some coaching screw-ups.
So according to the brain trust here...he wins yesterday and he's ok to continue on somehow. I'll take the trend of the program right now compared to most the previous 2 decades. That is with the B1G east being much tougher now than it was most of the last 2 decades as well.
The decisions yesterday weren't overly horrible.
1) The fake punt - If it is executed without the bobble we probably get the 1st down. Kentucky isn't a passing team so the threat isn't major (don't have to worry about a high scoring game). It resulted in 3 points for Kentucky. The risk reward was there. Again if it is executed normally we probably get the 1st down.
2) The FG. Let's assume we don't make the 1st down. Let's assume the D does a bit better and only gives up 1 1st down. They punt from the 30 yard line. Assume a 45 yard punt. We have to go 75 yards for a TD against a top defense for a TD. Now lets assume the same 1 1st down and 45 yard punt. We have to go 50 yards for a FG to send it to overtime - while also having the ability to possibly score a TD to win it. People also assume that if we went for it we would have scored quickly. What if we get the 1st down and then get stopped later and have even less time - plus they have more momentum from stopping us with goal to go.
I thought the only mistake was not stacking the box more - but if you do that you risk the big pass which would have lost the game. People also will claim we should have ran it on 1st and 2nd down. Maybe - but Kentucky was expecting this.
Fact is had the defense made a stop on either of the 2 1st downs - PSU gets the ball back with atleast 90 seconds or more to march to FG drive. Had we went for the TD and wasted 2 minutes and not scored we would have been in worse position.
Does this mean Franklin doesn't make mistakes - no - he makes his share of bad decisions, but so does every coach. People point to Saban/Swinney/Meyer - but they make there share of mistakes as well. We don't focus on them and in the case of Saban - his players make up for his mistakes.
I agree that the fake punt yesterday was not a good decision. I personally think two things factored in that lead to a sub-optimal decision:
1) I think Franklin thought we were going to be able to win the game either way. (note: I have no evidence to support this, it's just the feeling I got)
2) It's a relatively meaningless bowl game, so f*ck it let's do it.
I disagree that the field goal with four minutes left was clearly the wrong decision. I think that was the correct decision -- Or at worst, a wash. Of course fans always think the coach should go for it.
I agree that Franklin sometimes lets too much emotion creep into his gameday decisions, but sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, and his emotions are a big contributing factor to what makes him such a net positive. The good news is that he is the type of person who is always evaluating -- and that includes himself -- and there is a better-than-usual chance that he is aware of this and he will address it, if he is not already trying to address it.
Yep. No such thing as a perfect HC. I remember listening to Clemson fans babble about firing Dabo the year he won the MNC because they struggled against a talented FSU team on the road. They were mindless drunk morons saying he'll never win a thing and he is wasting their time. I swear I think about those tools every time I read some of the idiots on this site. MNC's aren't a dime a dozen and PSU's division is a tough one....tougher then most of the P5 conferences. It's not an easy run to any title in the B1G east for anyone right now. There are decisions that can always be second guessed in any loss and they are magnified, but the overall health of the program is the best it has been in a LONG time.
this is a very good summary. With 4 minutes to play, 4 freaking minutes, I think he could play it either way. Take the FG or go for it. As far as I am concerned, it was not clear cut. And the reason it was not clear cut is, we had 4 freaking minutes and 3 time outs!! That could be like 3 hours in real time! (tic)
I agree about stacking the box, maybe even suckering them to making a throw, and have us INT it, or an INC and stop the clock.
The fake punt early is irrelevant imo, plenty of time left. Now the missed and blocked FG's, they are a big deal. It would have forced UK to do things they may not have wanted to do, like throw the ball. It would also force the D to maybe not be as aggressive.
Christ Peterson punted last night down 8 with 2 something left on the clock, he almost had it work out for him.
WTF are you talking about? You don't EVER see him get emotional on the sidelines. EVER!!!
THE DEFENSE FORCED TWO THREE AND OUTS THE PREVIOUS POSSESSIONS. WE HAD FOUR MINUTES AND THREE TIMEOUTS. The correct percentage play was to kick the field goal and get a stop. At worst, it's a coin flip decision.
I agree. I think the early fake was an attempt to make a statement that PSU was there to win. It backfired. I didn't like the decision but three points early shouldn't be a big factor.
I thought they should go for it on the 4th down but understand the logic of kicking the field goal.
That I didn't understand either. I was watching Koa Farmer walk in and out from covering the slot, and most of the time he ended up over the slot. He should have been in the box. Make that QB throw a pass in that situation.
Agreed. If he went for it on 4th - I would have been fine. I do feel if we went for it and lost - 99% of the people criticizing him for the FG would be saying he should have kicked. I think either decision with that much time would have been ok. With reports of Trace's shoulder being less than 100% and also we know his foot/Leg was injured may have played a role in it.
Stacking the box is a risk as well. Having 1 on 1 with no support had a bigger negative possibility than allowing the run. Yes they don't have a very good QB but luck comes into it and with 1-1 a missed tackle/etc ends the game. ideally - you stack the box on 1st and put them way behind the chains - but again hindsite is 20/20.
Agreed biggest issues were the punt return, blocked kick and missed kick. Special teams really killed us. That is not on coaching.
FTR I hate the way we punt. period. I hate the picket fence thing. the reason is, you are covering with 7 and they have 11!! (the 3 pp and the Punter dont really count). I said that earlier as well. So relative to coaching, I thing that is something that needs looked it. I think they need to look at who is on the punt cover team. I see the same guy(s) making the same kind of mistakes, year over year. So there is that.
Exactly. He could have gone for it and people would have had no problem with it (unless it failed as that is what they do). That is a call that can be made either way with 4+ minutes left and 3 timeouts. They were moving the ball, but the defense was also stuffing UK pretty well at that point.
The thing is the 16 points we lost due to special teams was why were even at that point to begin with. Was it his decision to muff the first snap? Was it his bad that he out kicked the coverage on the punt return for a TD? 3 points that were his bad were the fake punt, but maybe if Thomas fields it cleanly it's a different outcome (not sure, couldn't tell from my angle). So yes we can blame him for 3 points there if we want to, but the other 13 were players that messed up.
We don't have a particularly knowledgeable football fan base, so it makes some degree of sense that everyone you're around says and believes they know the same thing you do.
Franklin gets criticized when he plays it "by the book" (that's that "coaching 101" you're referring to) and he gets criticized when he deviates from it. It goes with the territory - but it doesn't mean he's anything close to a terrible coach. He's a very, very good one.
The other issue.....when you HAVE to score a touchdown to win the game, that is not easy to do when the defense can pack 7 in that short area back there. Even if your defense gets that stop after a failed 4th down play, assuming you move the ball down the field again, getting that last second touchdown would have been very difficult.
Remember what James did in year #3 at PSU...won the B1G...Dabo went 6-7 and he wasn't coming off of sanctions. If people on this site had their way, they would have fired Dabo following year #3, no doubt in my mind.
And you don't think Saban, Swinney, Meyer, etc. get emotional?? Way more emotional than Franklin. You, obviously, don't watch much football.
I watched a little LSU yesteday, saw Ed Orgeron, tear off his headsets, throw them down, pull out his shirt and storm off about something.... and he was winning!
Didnt the Nickorater bust his head sets the last game?
We aren't the only team to punt this way. Multiple teams use the 3 players back. Not sure why - but I imagine that way they can each take people who get through the line.
Hey, he is great recruiter and a solid .... Head Coach. Hopefully, he is smart enough to .......buy a brilliant game manager and better coordinators. 4th and 5, fake punts and taking the ball out of Trace's hands again....gives me pause.
yes I know, and it seems, for the most part, many teams all punt the same way and it evolves over time. Go back and look how the pro punts have changed over time, and college the same way. I would prefer to go with 2 outside gunners, with 2 inside gunners in the c, g gap, 1 pp. or as a change up, the 2 inside gunners but off the wings, ie OT.
Here are my observation's on the game.
Penn State looked a little flat where Kentucky looked upbeat and played with a bit more intensity. When Penn State went down 0-10 then I saw a sense of urgency.
Penn State and Coach Franklin had the better athletes, especially in skill positions but Kentucky and Mark Stoops had a better game plan. They took less chances and ate up clock by allowing a stout offensive line to lead the way for a darn good RB. Both defenses played lights out.
Personally speaking I like Coach Franklin. I think he is a tremendous recruiter and a solid program builder. Next year Penn State will have a mature team with the only real question mark being the QB position. Let's see if the coaching staff can develop a solid QB to fit into Coach Franklin's spread offense. JMHO
Penn State looked a little flat where Kentucky looked upbeat and played with a bit more intensity. When Penn State went down 0-10 then I saw a sense of urgency.
Penn State and Coach Franklin had the better athletes, especially in skill positions but Kentucky and Mark Stoops had a better game plan. They took less chances and ate up clock by allowing a stout offensive line to lead the way for a darn good RB. Both defenses played lights out.
Personally speaking I like Coach Franklin. I think he is a tremendous recruiter and a solid program builder. Next year Penn State will have a mature team with the only real question mark being the QB position. Let's see if the coaching staff can develop a solid QB to fit into Coach Franklin's spread offense. JMHO
Last edited:
Judge, you and I both know that even if CJF wins a National Championship, posters on this board will claim he didn't win it in the right way.
It may just be with twitter and other social media, and the "fans" having direct access to the players and coaches, it is just a shitshow for every team after every loss. I see it with the Sixers as well. Something has changed in our society. No one has any patience anymore.
That's why I don't post here much anymore. Too many emotional kool aide drinkers. Always defend what we have by looking at the past and those problems. Be satisfied everyone we won 9 games. I guess I can make that excuse at my work. I guess I really don't give a shit anymore. I follow the wrestling now more. If you go over on that site no one even wants to talk about the football.
Agreed. No team is going to execute plays perfectly every time and win every single game.
Bad losses happen everywhere. Clemson lost to Syracuse last year, OSU crapped the bed versus Purdue - a Purdue team that seemingly couldn't stop a single drive by a mediocre Auburn team. Teams have bad games, players will not be perfect, coaches sometimes make decisions that work and sometimes ones that don't work.
LOL -- You don't even realize, do you?
1. We lost.
2. You make a post crying about "His coaching decisions on the field are terrible. Everyone I'm around knows it and says it. Taking a field goal at the end of a game with 4 min left? I want someone who will play it straight up and knows coaching 101."
3. Some posters, who understand the game and big picture better than you, calmly explain to you how you're simply wrong in your criticism RE the field goal with four minutes left and, ironically, it's your inability to separate your emotion (let down) that is clouding your ability to see it.
4. Your response is to cry about "too many emotional kool aide drinkers."
You're so emotional about this, 1) You can't see that those with calmer/clearer heads are trying to help you understand the flaw in your thinking; and 2) You're projecting your inability to control your emotions on those who are trying to help you.
You follow the team who has won, what, 7 of the past 8 national titles closer? You don't say. What does that say about you?
