Dave Jones credits 4 people for the survival of PSU FB. Any guesses?
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
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Emmert was lying about the Death Penalty. The Rod was just bluffed like some incoherent, brain dead, illiterate buffoon. To say that he was a "hero" in this is just beyond crazy.
I was just saying that if the NCAA actually DID give us the death penalty, and the NCAA would have litigated the Corman case as they did, we would literally own the NCAA today.
Exactly correct. we are being told that they (thought) they ruined the football program to save THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. How ludicrous is that? On top of that, they now spend MILLIONS to hide the basis for this decision to ruin the football program!!!
And, by naming Joyner (if you've seen some of the emails I posted you now know that there was no DP and that several on the board, if not most, feel that Rod had no authority to sign the CD) its like crediting a guy who did CPR on you after he shot you for saving your life.
What?? No crap Erickson is not a hero...
And to your second point, I'm saying that is an impossibility under the scenario in which Jones's lawyer friends and nearly everyone on this board, who isn't CR66, is suggesting which is if the University would have fought the sanctions, with or without the death penalty, we would have won immediately and there would have never been a Corman suit or Paterno suit for that matter.
I was thinking Joe, myself. It was built the right way. The structure was already there. The players that stepped up were Joe's recruits. They were the type of kids Joe has always had in his program. The alumni, fans, current students, etc.. all were there because of what Joe built and they were eager to stand by their school. Penn State was so big, the Big Ten and NCAA certainly didn't want to lose their brand even if just for selfish financial reasons.
Someone help me out here. I thought Emmert did insinuate that we could get the death penalty, even though he knew very well it was an impossibility under NCAA rules. And didn't Julie Roe say that to Emmert in an email, "I characterized our approach to PSU as a bluff when talking to Mark [Emmert] yesterday afternoon after the call. He basically agreed b/c if we make this an enforcement issue, we may win the immediate battle but lose the war when the COI [Committee on Infractions] has to rule."
So why are we saying there was no DP threat. I must have missed something along the way.....
So why are we saying there was no DP threat. I must have missed something along the way.....
There's a hypothesis that the DP was never on the table because the deal with the NCAA was actually negotiated "behind closed doors" by members of the cabal and the NCAA (& likely the B10) without the knowledge of the mid-level folks at the NCAA (like Roe Lach).
So then Emmert did or did not make a faulty threat?
My understanding was he threatened Erickson and Erickson was too stupid to know that the Presidents Exec committee was never going to vote that way. Which is why I believe Emmert should go to jail for his extortion.
Exactly...IOW the DP threat was used by the "insiders" at NCAA/PSU BOT to get the others at the NCAA/PSU BOT to agree to the CD.
Ray's latest blog post sums the above up quite well.
Amid all the mess they created, what they did to Joe was to paint him as guilty in the eyes of the world... the mass assumption became that they knew things and they knew for a fact that Joe knew and did nothing. Hence, we fire him because it was all his fault. and, cuz, well, we know that.
Gutless cowards.. the only real shame is that each and every one of them wasn't rounded up, tarred and feathered and sent packing.
The answer depends on perspective. From Erickson's perspective, Emmert did exactly that.
Just as from Roe Lach's perspective, the idea of penalizing PSU seemed a risky endeavor.
Presumably neither Erickson nor Roe Lach were part of the "secret" negotiation (which gives them both plausible deniability). Again, this is all per the hypothesis.
So, then do you believe a court, let's say in PA, could get a conviction on Extortion charges on Emmert? Let's not say anyone else at the moment, just him, since they'd all be tried separately in a criminal trial anyway.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
My four:
- Mauti and to a lesser degree Zordich - They decide to fold up shop, it's *really* all over for PSU football. Held current team together and provided leadership when there was none. By extension, the other players who stayed when it would have been very easy to leave get a lot of credit as well.
- O'Brien - Said all the right things when he arrived and got the best QB in the country to keep his word to Penn State. Not a fan of his entire tenure or exit, but his no nonsense/football first attitude was the right thing at the right time.
- Whoever hired James Franklin - The hottest up and coming coach at the time and someone at Penn State makes the best decision since this whole thing started. Does Joyner get credit here? I think Russ Rose was on the hiring committee too. Either way, this was critical.
- James Franklin - This is the guy we've been waiting for - he's more than lived up to the hype and has revitalized the program and fan base. Where O'Brien was fairly content to pick and choose a few stud offensive recruits to build around, Franklin is a workhorse unlike anything we've seen in State College before. His real impact has yet to be felt IMO.
- Mauti and to a lesser degree Zordich - They decide to fold up shop, it's *really* all over for PSU football. Held current team together and provided leadership when there was none. By extension, the other players who stayed when it would have been very easy to leave get a lot of credit as well.
- O'Brien - Said all the right things when he arrived and got the best QB in the country to keep his word to Penn State. Not a fan of his entire tenure or exit, but his no nonsense/football first attitude was the right thing at the right time.
- Whoever hired James Franklin - The hottest up and coming coach at the time and someone at Penn State makes the best decision since this whole thing started. Does Joyner get credit here? I think Russ Rose was on the hiring committee too. Either way, this was critical.
- James Franklin - This is the guy we've been waiting for - he's more than lived up to the hype and has revitalized the program and fan base. Where O'Brien was fairly content to pick and choose a few stud offensive recruits to build around, Franklin is a workhorse unlike anything we've seen in State College before. His real impact has yet to be felt IMO.
Fow How Fow What David Jones.....
Who the phuck on this planet reads or publishes this anti-Joe bigot outside Harrisburg but a few of you idiots that publish his crap here. Nobody. Nobody that is not mentally disabled reads this tool. His name along with all else of no value to anyone should not be mentioned on this board. My question is why do you care what this nobody writes. He is in a universe of one..... an null universe. Let it be.
Who the phuck on this planet reads or publishes this anti-Joe bigot outside Harrisburg but a few of you idiots that publish his crap here. Nobody. Nobody that is not mentally disabled reads this tool. His name along with all else of no value to anyone should not be mentioned on this board. My question is why do you care what this nobody writes. He is in a universe of one..... an null universe. Let it be.
I suspect it depends on what Paterno, et al. can prove. If discovery doesn't yield tangible evidence of the hypothesized plot, then Emmert will almost certainly be facing that possibility (provided, of course, he doesn't sing).
I agree 100%. Only exception being the fans (and am not sure that really qualifies for the discussion). I stated, on this board, that the fans are the program, when this whole thing was breaking in '11 & '12. I still believe that. In the end, the fan support, packing a 107,00 seat stadium in the middle of nowhere will always draw TV and talent. The biggest concern is that the down days of post-sanction football would be so bad, nobody would show. I think the fans see through the "blame it on football culture" BS and doubled down on the program (a relative handful left; good riddance). So it was, to me, Mauti #1 for sustaining because nobody could coach a team of walkons to wins, O'Brien for bringing the proper 'tude (clean program, always has been, us against everyone, with class), not sure who after that. I love CJF and am 98% sold, but not 100%..yet.
JJinPhila, "AndreaDimaggio"/mbe34/JudasShuttlesworth/Det Tibbetts......and more.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Well, fans were a given - when we say the program was 'saved', I think we know that term is mostly hyperbole. What we're saying is, who was most responsible for limiting Penn State's down years to a few at most, compared to maybe a decade or so. With this fan base (and their $$$$), there's no way Penn State would have ever truly been over IMO. You see what happened when OB left - someone at Old Main decided to pony up for a hot coach, when they could have hired a nobody and let the program turn into Indiana.
Jones' goal is to attract clicks and comments, not to identify the true 4 most important people. Apparently he is succeeding.
Thank you for helping me sort through what people were saying. I couldn't get why people saying there was no death penalty threat, but it is really that there was no real death penalty threat. Is what I am coming to.
Dave Jones also went on record during the post O'Brien coaching search that hiring Franklin would be a mistake because the fanbase wasn't ready for an outsider. His opinion was we needed to hire a "safe" PSU guy.
That of course was ridiculous. What we needed to hire was someone who could make a splash and recruit to restock the roster quickly which is exactly what Franklin has done.
Jones is a skilled writer from a technical standpoint but his opinions and his analysis of the mindset of the PSU fanbase is terrible. Whenever he makes an assumption about what PSU fans think or feel it's usually the exact opposite of what I'm thinking or hoping for.
I don't think he writes this stuff to generate clicks, I think he actually is just misguided.
That of course was ridiculous. What we needed to hire was someone who could make a splash and recruit to restock the roster quickly which is exactly what Franklin has done.
Jones is a skilled writer from a technical standpoint but his opinions and his analysis of the mindset of the PSU fanbase is terrible. Whenever he makes an assumption about what PSU fans think or feel it's usually the exact opposite of what I'm thinking or hoping for.
I don't think he writes this stuff to generate clicks, I think he actually is just misguided.
Is this the same David Jones whom the alumni would have fired for cause in 2012 had he decided not to run again? http://news.psu.edu/story/281423/20...ant-dave-jones-and-anne-riley-emeritus-status
No. This guy is an Ohio State guy. I once listened to him claim, seriously, that Jim Tressel was in the mafia just because Tressel lived and coached in Youngstown. When pressed for further truth, he laughed it off and said "what more proof do you need?" The interviewer, a local hack, was beside himself but let it pass.
David Jones | djones@pennlive.com
About Me:
Joined The Patriot-News in 1989 after five years full-time at The Columbus Dispatch as a college football/basketball beat writer (Ohio University and MAC, 1984-85); Television-Radio Critic (1985-87); and police/courts reporter (1987-89). Has covered every NCAA Final Four since 1994 and 23 in all. Has covered Penn State basketball for 26 seasons and Penn State football for 24, first as the beat writer and since 2002 as the columnist. Has been the Patriot-News's full-time sports columnist since 2002. Three-time winner of Pennsylvania Newspaper Association award as the state's best sports columnist (1999, 2004 and 2006) in top circulation category (75,000+). Named by Pennsylvania Associated Press Managing Editors as state's best sports columnist (75,000+) in 2012. Multiple winner of national APSE Top 10, Football Writers Association of America and U.S. Basketball Writers Association awards including 2006 USBWA best feature story in nation. Winner of 2010 APSE first-place national columnist award (75,000-175,000 circ.). Will become 74th president of the Football Writers Association of America in 2017. Lives with wife Anna and son Nicholas in Downingtown, PA.
.....
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Let the chorus sound out Drone of Drones! In a poll conducted in every city, town and burrough across the United States over a period of the lasst 5 years involving non sports writers....when asked who is David Jones here are the results: 200 people from Harrisburg, PA 20 from Weedville, PA, 2 from Downingtown, PA .... 18 from BWI, PA and the 30 Pitt graduates that can read from the Burgh....and 0 males under the age of 50. I will as it differently this time Who TF cares that matters to this football program what DJ writes.
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Ericsson did absolutely nothing to save Penn State football. Nothing. You want to argue that signing the consent decree saved Penn State football? Fine. But it was given to him. Any jackass with a pen could have signed it. He took the path of least resistance which is not a display of leadership.
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I think people can debate whether it was better to fight or cave until they are blue in the face and neither side will ever admit the other is right because the outcome is all based on speculation. People are biased to their opinion so those saying it was good to cave are working under the assumption that fighting the NCAA would have crushed PSU beyond anything the NCAA would have done. Those who think fighting was the better option are working from the assumption that it wouldn't. The truth is that is an unanswered question so both sides can argue and never be proven wrong.
That said, this article is utter garbage. First of all, one thing we know for sure at this point is that the NCAA bluffed and that PSU was legally in the right had they chosen to fight. The fact that Jones admits this and STILL contends that it was better to "plead guilty" proves that he is working from nothing but an extremely biased assumption about an alternate reality. That is a position that requires defense well beyond saying, "the media was really harsh and PSU couldn't afford to fight it". I'm pretty sure that is something extremely debatable so this entire article is based on a potential false assumption. Per usual, Jones makes something up in his head, presents it as fact, and then uses it to defend his opinion.
That said, this article is utter garbage. First of all, one thing we know for sure at this point is that the NCAA bluffed and that PSU was legally in the right had they chosen to fight. The fact that Jones admits this and STILL contends that it was better to "plead guilty" proves that he is working from nothing but an extremely biased assumption about an alternate reality. That is a position that requires defense well beyond saying, "the media was really harsh and PSU couldn't afford to fight it". I'm pretty sure that is something extremely debatable so this entire article is based on a potential false assumption. Per usual, Jones makes something up in his head, presents it as fact, and then uses it to defend his opinion.
Everybody is missing "the elephant in the room" that identifies Jones' piece for the pure garbage "propaganda" meant to defend clearly immoral, corrupt pieces of shat who are not just self-interested cowards but outright indefensible lowlife's and thieves.... The memo's already released CLEARLY demonstrate that the NCAA, corrupt elements of PSU's Executive Committee AND the b1g Turd conference were sharing information regarding Freeh's work and their positions on the issue all the way back to it's inception. The NCAA states in their OWN MEMOS well before the Consent Decree "cram down" that the threat of a "death penalty" was a bluff that they had no intention of carrying out and were only using in an attempt to extort a signature from PSU to the Consent Decree which the NCAA wrote (clearly making the Consent Decree a "Contract of Adhesion" born of DEALING IN BAD FAITH on the part of the NCAA given the NCAA is a member-owned organization and PSU was a member in good standing at the time....and therefore VOIDABLE).
Doofus Davey "tO$U" Jones COMPLETELY IGNORES the fact that the NCAA in their OWN MEMOS before the event admits that the threat of a DP was absurd on its face, that they had no authority to do such a thing AND FINALLY, that they had no intention of carrying the threat out...it was merely going to be used to coerce the coward Fraudney Erickson into signing (who they knew would wilt even if they only had a squirt gun to point at him!!).
So let me get this straight according to Moron Jones, it was an incredible act on Fraudney's part to sign a doc based on an "empty threat" that even the NCAA says in their memos before the event has little hope of working, and they have no intent of carrying out, except for the fact that the party they are going to perpetrate the dwindle upon is a completely servile, sniveling boob? It's a stroke of genius to pay hundreds of millions in the form of outright payments or catastrophic damages to avoid an outcome that the NCAA THEMSELVES says was not a potential outcome??? ROTGLMFAO, Jones the imbecile has outdone even himself with this twisted "pretzel logic" which is nothing but pablum propaganda meant to defend Delany and the scumbag filled big Turd conference which ILLEGALLY has withheld PSU's Bowl Revenue Share following the 2012 & 2013 seasons.
Its a good point......trying to "own the narrative" before more crap hits the fans regarding disclosure associated with the Paterno, and other, legal gymnastics.
For me its just more proof that Davey boy can be bought.
He's almost as lame as that guy (Joyner) living in Ira's basement.
Jones seems to believe that the consent agreement itself was a necessity. Rodney could have negotiated something differently before the consent decree was put on the table. Rod allowed himself to be put into a defensive position where he had to react. Remember one of the NCAA flunkies stated that Penn State leaders were so cowed (my word) that they would agree to just about anything. And, the flunky was right.
Penn State Football saved Penn State football.
No President....no BOT member...No David Jones...You idiot.. it has nothing to do with You.... administrators...4 people...6 2 people or one person.
James Franklin understands what I am saying......It is why he came to PSU......He understood it...he grasped it and he is running with it in his own way. The football tradition at PSU saved and is Saving PSU football into perpetuity. Ohio boy can keep writing for the writers and gossiping old men out there.... College football prospects don't know who David Jones is..... but they know what PSU football is.....
No President....no BOT member...No David Jones...You idiot.. it has nothing to do with You.... administrators...4 people...6 2 people or one person.
James Franklin understands what I am saying......It is why he came to PSU......He understood it...he grasped it and he is running with it in his own way. The football tradition at PSU saved and is Saving PSU football into perpetuity. Ohio boy can keep writing for the writers and gossiping old men out there.... College football prospects don't know who David Jones is..... but they know what PSU football is.....
The argument over whether Erickson should have signed the Consent Decree ignores the more fundamental problem of why the NCAA even attempted to force it on Penn State in the first place. The BoT and Erickson are 100% responsible for that. They are the ones who told Freeh to throw football under the bus and they told him to "cooperate" with the PA OAG and the NCAA. If they had not breached their duty to Penn State and done their best to protect the university's interests (instead of their own), the NCAA would never have been emboldened to force the Consent Decree on Penn State in the first place.
But so much of it was their own doing. They gave Freeh an open mic/stage (not to mention, hired him in the first place). For all the executive prowess on that board, they sure do cower under pressure rather than slow things down, act thoughtful, etc. They left ESPN write the story and they chose to run with it.
RT @ScottPaterno: @yeti47 @ChiTownLionPSU @NCAA he bragged to other beat writers he was going to be the guy to destroy JVP.
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