Does Nolf have more potential than DT?
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We will see, but DT is great. My kids favorite was Ruth. Now she likes Bo. I like all of our dodge-ball players.
The biggest part of DT's legacy to me is that he, in my mind as much as Cael, transformed the way Penn State approached wrestling as a team to a different level . I think Cael had a good concept of how he wanted to do it, but it required a leader to really buy in and bring his teammates along. Watching the team during the Taylor years, I saw the way he worked with and inspired his teammates. It reminded me of the way Bill Russell understood the team concept in basketball in a way no one had before (and maybe since) and raised the Celtics to a level of success not seen previously. Now the culture is firmly ingrained in State College, so the guy that helped usher in that mentality more than anyone gets extra credit from me.
For example, I don't Dake, for all his individual success, would have been as pivotal for PSU. I don't that Ruth would have pulled the team together like Taylor did, either. So on an individual level, Nolf may match Taylor, but on the team level, I don't know that anyone will ever match what DT did.
For example, I don't Dake, for all his individual success, would have been as pivotal for PSU. I don't that Ruth would have pulled the team together like Taylor did, either. So on an individual level, Nolf may match Taylor, but on the team level, I don't know that anyone will ever match what DT did.
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Hard to compare the two for me, but Nolf gives me the same "I can't wait to watch him wrestle" feeling DT always gave me.
To me, Nolf is sort of a hybrid between DT and Matt Brown. He has the "video game" offense like DT but also the ability to physically punish and grind down an opponent like Matt Brown. I'm not suggesting DT wasn't a physical wrestler, I just don't think he's as physical as Nolf (Mean?). Time will tell. We're fortunate to even be having this discussion as DT is a once in a generation talent (as is Ruth, Nolf, Zain, etc. 
. Let me not forget Q who was proper enforcement of stalling from being a 3 timer.
. Let me not forget Q who was proper enforcement of stalling from being a 3 timer.
I believe Hall is Taylor part II in the leadership department. He has always stressed team and his Apple Valley days exemplified that from what I saw. Maybe Crop or Grappler6 can weigh in.
To add on to the Team Leader concept, one of my lasting memories of DT is when he embraced James English at Nationals after the 7th place match.
Also agree that Q gets very overlooked both in the "team leader" and "exciting wrestler" discussions.
You couldn't afford to blink when Quentin Wright was on the mat.
Q's pin of Gambrall in the 2011 semis - on a Standing Headlock from Neutral of all crazy things - was the moment that officially ushered in the PSU era of national dominance that we have been enjoying since.
Also agree that Q gets very overlooked both in the "team leader" and "exciting wrestler" discussions.
You couldn't afford to blink when Quentin Wright was on the mat.
Q's pin of Gambrall in the 2011 semis - on a Standing Headlock from Neutral of all crazy things - was the moment that officially ushered in the PSU era of national dominance that we have been enjoying since.
I recently watched the video (link) of DT vs St John for the BIG championship, DT's freshman year.
It's amazing the difference between Nolf now and DT then. Nolf is much more physical and I'd say more skilled, such as better finishing and defense. Tough DT's balance and slickness were evident. Nolf's higher bonus rate is no accident.
It's amazing the difference between Nolf now and DT then. Nolf is much more physical and I'd say more skilled, such as better finishing and defense. Tough DT's balance and slickness were evident. Nolf's higher bonus rate is no accident.
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Great post, Taylor helped Ed get serious and when Retherford came on and beat that ohio state guy it seemed to up all their games. When the 3 n's came along it was Oh yeah baby and with Mark hall, well, katie bar the door.
Come to think about it my highlight these past 5 years is Quentin pinning Kilgore. I just had that feeling just like nolf pinning that illinois guy.
P.S. I guess it was grambrel as per digger. sorry
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Lots of fun to relive the moment,
when Quentin Wright Decks Gambrall of Iowa in NCAA Semi's.
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The Zman would be a better leader, if he would only stop putting guys on their back, so he can take a break and stall. Don't ya just hate when he does that.
Man, that was an exciting moment when Q decked Gambrall. For those that don't remember the situation we had a bad QF session on Friday morning with Wade and Ruth getting hurt and losing and things were looking grim. Then the semis and Friday night session and by the time that session was over we had all but locked up the team title. Great memories. I especially loved the reactions by Cael and Casey as Q was getting the pin. Probably the most animated anyone has ever seen them.
I really liked and appreciate the accuracy of matter7172's post.
Cael was going to build a monster program at Penn St no matter what.
Ed Ruth was going to be great, so was Quentin, Frank or Nico - they also were going to be Penn State wrestlers no matter what.
David Taylor, he was never going to be a Penn Stater prior to Cael. David following Cael to University Park was the magic ingredient. David's presence on the team, David's leadership within the program, David's face on the program - all unmistakably the reason Penn State became the epicenter of college wrestling, the power center. Without David, Penn State and Cael are annual contenders - not annual favorites.
At one of the post NCAA celebrations I told people look around. Maybe 1000+ fans at the get together. David Taylor did this.
After Zain becomes PSU's 2nd 3 time champion, after Jason becomes PSU's 3rd 3 time champion and Mark Hall becomes Penn State's first 4 timer - it will still be the fifth (thanks nova) 2 time champion in Penn State's wrestling history that will the guy who paved the way.
Penn State wrestling is what it has become due as much to David as to Cael, Cody and Casey.
As a very long time Penn State wrestling fan that is my take of the significance of David Taylor wearing the blue singlet with the white stripe.
Cael was going to build a monster program at Penn St no matter what.
Ed Ruth was going to be great, so was Quentin, Frank or Nico - they also were going to be Penn State wrestlers no matter what.
David Taylor, he was never going to be a Penn Stater prior to Cael. David following Cael to University Park was the magic ingredient. David's presence on the team, David's leadership within the program, David's face on the program - all unmistakably the reason Penn State became the epicenter of college wrestling, the power center. Without David, Penn State and Cael are annual contenders - not annual favorites.
At one of the post NCAA celebrations I told people look around. Maybe 1000+ fans at the get together. David Taylor did this.
After Zain becomes PSU's 2nd 3 time champion, after Jason becomes PSU's 3rd 3 time champion and Mark Hall becomes Penn State's first 4 timer - it will still be the fifth (thanks nova) 2 time champion in Penn State's wrestling history that will the guy who paved the way.
Penn State wrestling is what it has become due as much to David as to Cael, Cody and Casey.
As a very long time Penn State wrestling fan that is my take of the significance of David Taylor wearing the blue singlet with the white stripe.
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Minnesota's Mark Hall and Texas's Bo Nickal never consider a Pennsylvanian school if David Taylor didn't first blaze his trail here and help create the exciting new "PSU style" and team culture.
Well said, but one correction. DT was PSU's 6th 2x NCAA champ when he won his 2nd. Matter, Prescott, McCoy, Q, Ruth and then DT.
There is no denying David's qualities but as you said he did "help create" the style. Gotta give Cael, Casey and Cody the lions share of the credit after God of course. Didn't DT come with Cael to Penn State after all?
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when it comes down to it... Cael knows.. he wrestles with the all.... I think Hall will take it (accomplishments) to another level...
True re Ed. But you have to be a 2x before you can be a 3x.
In any case our number of 2x and 3x champs looks like it will continue to increase. We may even have a 4x champ eventually. Certainly something I look forward to seeing and watching.
Incredible moments from that match...
I
I'll never forget that match either. I was so jacked up afterwards that when I called a friend to give him an update, I was so hoarse from yelling that I could hardly talk. We had to do a bar run before bedtime just to calm down enough to get to sleep.
This I agree with 100%. If Taylor would have stayed at Iowa State your success would have .been delayed some. It was a no brain for Taylor not to leave as only reason he was at IS. was Cael.
Agree with this and would add that Cael and the coaches had a vision for dominating college wrestling, not just for the near term but the long term as well. DT and others made that a reality in the near term. Many wrestling 'experts' expected with DTs departure with Ed and Q, Penn State had its moment of glory and that was it. Cael and his staff have transformed college wrestling. DT, Ruth, Frank, Q and Matt Brown made that a near term reality. Nico was the bridge between that near term talent and the intent to dominate long term. It is to Zain, Nolf, Bo, Mark Hall, Cenzo and others that this goal has been passed. They haven't disappointed.
I don't think the team race was officially wrapped up at that point (Ruth dominating the wrestle-backs sealed it I think), but after that match, everyone knew it was over. One of the most electrifying moments of tournament history.
Everyone is unique, and those asked to step up or do so naturally on this team, from a leadership standpoint, won't resemble DT's or Q's or ER's "style". I believe Zain is asked to be more a leader, as he's an upperclassman (JR) on a very young team, as far as a vocal leader. Jason moreso from the way he manages his entire life (have you ever heard his reference to the "equation" he uses as a metric for managing every aspect of his life?).
Leadership is one of those intangibles, tied to team chemistry, that I believe can make or break a team. It's an intangible that most fans, in my experience, take for granted, but in my lifetime full of sports experiences, is as important as talent...which the fans "see", and becomes their measure for success. When a team fails, it's often attributed to "talent", but is many times tied to these intangibles.
As far as Nolf having more "potential" than DT, I'll let the "value to the team, given their era's in the program", and the "leadership" stuff alone, and just talk about their wrestling. Jason is Jason, not a combination of any other wrestlers, though I get the comparisons...it's how fans relate. I just look at each guys uniqueness, and stay away from comparison's, style-wise...just me, that's all. Performance-wise, DT was on a Cael-like level, with a 92% Bonus-win percentage, but not quite at the 100% win percentage (DT was 97.8%, with 3 career losses). A healthy Jason could approach or even exceed DT's numbers, but he can't lose again, and must up his Bonus point wins % (he has 2 losses, and his bonus point win % is 88.6%). He could exceed DT's pin numbers, having 15 in his 1st season.
Leadership is one of those intangibles, tied to team chemistry, that I believe can make or break a team. It's an intangible that most fans, in my experience, take for granted, but in my lifetime full of sports experiences, is as important as talent...which the fans "see", and becomes their measure for success. When a team fails, it's often attributed to "talent", but is many times tied to these intangibles.
As far as Nolf having more "potential" than DT, I'll let the "value to the team, given their era's in the program", and the "leadership" stuff alone, and just talk about their wrestling. Jason is Jason, not a combination of any other wrestlers, though I get the comparisons...it's how fans relate. I just look at each guys uniqueness, and stay away from comparison's, style-wise...just me, that's all. Performance-wise, DT was on a Cael-like level, with a 92% Bonus-win percentage, but not quite at the 100% win percentage (DT was 97.8%, with 3 career losses). A healthy Jason could approach or even exceed DT's numbers, but he can't lose again, and must up his Bonus point wins % (he has 2 losses, and his bonus point win % is 88.6%). He could exceed DT's pin numbers, having 15 in his 1st season.
Suffice it to say, we have a lot to be thankful for. Being a Penn State wrestling fan was not nearly as much fun back in the day. Except when Jim Martin from Danville pinned Tony Reed from Shikellamy in the match with Bloomsburg University. One of my friends sons was born that night and he was at the match too...that's hardcore!!
No. That's not a shot at Nolf, either. Taylor is one of the more creative and fluid wrestlers I've ever seen. Nickal compares more to him stylistically, Zain is of a similar level of dominance. I'll never forget Taylor hitting an elevated standing granby into a single leg takedown on Nick Moore. It was one of the craziest and most insane pieces of chain wrestling I've ever seen.
Big Tens at Madison.
I was there. When he pulled that off, the entire arena went "WHHHOOOOA"
There has to be a link to that somewhere.
I'm with you on that but the verdict is still out on Jason. Although he has lost twice, he has slayed the 'man' once already. DT had Dake for cryptonite.
Yes, gotta agree, Q is one of the most dynamic, if not the most dynamic, offensive wrestlers to ever don the PSU singlet. Magic Man was a better wrestler from the top position, but Q was the more dynamic from neutral in terms of both throws and "pinning combination" moves that "showed opponents the lights". Speaking of Nolf, Nickal is no slouch himself in this regard - in fact, Nickal reminds me a bit of a "baby Q".
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Don't forget Andrew Alton once he burst upon the scenes. Quite a few falls early on until...
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