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Dranov on the stand

You must be talking about Victim 5. He was the kid that changed his story from 1998 to August or September 2001 so the AG could have a post-Victim 2, in-house Penn State Victim.

If I remember right, the jury didn't buy his assault story because he would have had to have been abused right in the middle of pre-season camp where guys would have been going in and out of the locker room constantly. The Indecent Assault charge was dropped, and Sandusky was charged on three lesser charges.

Is that the Victim you meant? I think he was the only post Victim 2 Victim allegedly assaulted on Penn State property.

Well I don't know anything about him changing his story. I do know that he testified in court that the assault happened in "the building next to Holuba" in 2002. If it was Victim 5, then yes the assault charge was dropped but he was convicted on unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors, and endangering welfare of children
 
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Further proof that psu would be nothing today if it weren't for Paterno - he was the only one that could lead with vision and guts. Imagine where this dump of a university would be without Paterno? And yes I called it a dump because it beat the hardest on a weak old man when he was being mercilessly crucified after he had carried the damn place on his back for nearly 50 years.

http://movie-sounds.org/war-movie-sound-clips/sound-clips-from-stalag-17-1953/except-he-beat-hardest

Oh geez, really? Get off the ledge, man, you're talking crazy. You can fault the powers that be for how they dealt with this scandal and Paterno in particular without dumping on the entire university. And quite frankly, unfair s*it happens to people ALL of the damn time. It is unfortunate it happened to one of your favorite people, but get a grip--PSU is a fine university and continues to provide a great education to thousands of students. You're being a drama queen.
 
"In emails to former chief deputy attorney general Jonelle Eshbach and Sassano, McQueary said that “national media and public opinion has totally, in every single way ruined me. For what?” He expressed concerns about media reports that suggested he should be charged with a crime, which Sassano reassured him would not happen."

Because it's not a crime to be yella.....

He should have been charged with endangering the welfare of a child just by leaving the child in a situation he "supposedly" deemed concerning.
 
You did not answer the question.

Take this thought to any other message board and see what they say.

And a group shower at the YMCA, is not a two person shower at 10 pm at night with one 60 year old man and one ten year old child.

God, you are reprehensible. Sickening to see you try to defend a pedophile.

Why would I have thought anything of it prior to 2011? We could play basketball at Rec Hall, and then the IM Building all night if we wanted to. And we did a lot. After we played, many of us would shower. Big frickin deal. That's the way we were brought up 50, 60, and 70 years ago.

If I would have seen a guy and a kid, especially on a football weekend, I wouldn't have thought a thing of it.

2011 dramatically changed all of our perspectives. Now, when I'm on the road, I will just go back to the hotel and shower rather than shower at some YMCA. It's not 2011 anymore..... or 2001. Times change. But some of you youngins have a hard time grasping that.
 
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Still begs the question of not going to the shower and showing Tim what/when/where.

Sitting in Tim's office just seems....non-urgent. But maybe that's just me.

Nothing about how MM, Dr. D, or JM responded showed ANY urgency. MM was ok with sleeping on it then telling Joe a watered down version the next day, then he is ok with waiting 10 DAYS to have a brief 10-15 minute chat (at which no point did MM submit a written statement to schultz or anyone at UPPD) with C/S. Then when Curley calls to follow up MM gives zero indication that he wasn't happy with their handling of his report.

Then two months later Dr. D and JM have a meeting with Schultz where neither JM nor Dr. D expressed any dissatisfaction, outrage, etc. with the fact that JS was never arrested or questioned, etc....so many things just don't line up with MM's 2010 version.
 
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Well I don't know anything about him changing his story. I do know that he testified in court that the assault happened in "the building next to Holuba" in 2002. If it was Victim 5, then yes the assault charge was dropped but he was convicted on unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors, and endangering welfare of children
At trial, he first said 2002 and then later 2001. At GJ, he said 1998.

Did/does the EALR(old Lasch) have a sauna in it?
 
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Nothing about how MM, Dr. D, or JM responded showed ANY urgency. MM was ok with sleeping on it then telling Joe a watered down version the next day, then he is ok with waiting 10 DAYS to have a brief 10-15 minute chat (at which no point did MM submit a written statement to schultz or anyone at UPPD) with C/S. Then when Curley calls to follow up MM gives zero indication that he wasn't happy with their handling of his report.

Then two months later Dr. D and JM have a meeting with Schultz where neither JM nor Dr. D expressed any dissatisfaction, outrage, etc. with the fact that JS was never arrested or questioned, etc....so many things just don't line up with MM's 2010 version.

I have to agree. Way too much disconnect going on here. Nothing screams "urgency". Meet in Tim's office TEN DAYS LATER and NOT take Tim to the scene of the incident.

It just seems that some involved here felt placing this "hot potato" into another's lap was okay. So was it really ever a "hot potato" or a just warmed up mashed potatoes?

 
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Nothing about how MM, Dr. D, or JM responded showed ANY urgency. MM was ok with sleeping on it then telling Joe a watered down version the next day, then he is ok with waiting 10 DAYS to have a brief 10-15 minute chat (at which no point did MM submit a written statement to schultz or anyone at UPPD) with C/S. Then when Curley calls to follow up MM gives zero indication that he wasn't happy with their handling of his report.

Then two months later Dr. D and JM have a meeting with Schultz where neither JM nor Dr. D expressed any dissatisfaction, outrage, etc. with the fact that JS was never arrested or questioned, etc....so many things just don't line up with MM's 2010 version.

And we're supposed to believe that MM is ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that this kid is continuing to be abused in the worst of ways by a monster over this entire two-week period??? Yea, right - what was MM so distraught over this entire 2-week period that he could only repeat over and over "the noises.....the noises....", LMFAO. If I'm an administrator and I'm told MM left the scene with the kid in Sandusky's custody and didn't report anything until the next morning to JVP as an HR Report to his Direct Supervisor of Suspicious Activity in the Workplace....why precisely am I going to be bat-$hit crazy with urgency two weeks later??? MM's claims in 2011 and since DO NOT ADD UP, nor are they CONSISTENT WITH, his actions directly after the incident and over the next SEVERAL WEEKS! You would think at the very least, MM would attempt to find out if anybody established the identity of the child so his family could be warned to keep him away from JS (BTW, TSM should have put together a "Safety Plan" to keep the child away from JS until TSM established that nothing happened via their own investigation including a report to DPW, who they had an "Agency Relationship" with!!!).
 
Well I don't know anything about him changing his story. I do know that he testified in court that the assault happened in "the building next to Holuba" in 2002. If it was Victim 5, then yes the assault charge was dropped but he was convicted on unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors, and endangering welfare of children

Did his first name start with an M and his middle name with a H? I think we are talking about the same kid. With a little bit of help from McGettigan, he changed his Grand Jury testimony from 1998 to late summer 2001 when he actually got to trial. He first used 2002 at trial, and then McGettigan directed him to the late summer 2001 date with some photographs.

The AG needed a Victim to be assaulted on the Penn State campus after Victim 2 to strengthen their case against C/S/S. Victim 5 was the sacrificial lamb.
 
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This is retreading old ground - but wouldn't it have been prudent for Mike, Gary & Tim to actually go to the "scene of the crime" - so Mike can show them specifically how, what, when - so the PSU Admins can more clearly confront Jerry with what went on, better armed with facts?

Why meet in the Bryce Jordan Center? It's so.....silly.

It certainly doesn't speak to any urgency, nor does it help to illustrate the problem. It's like they're meeting for coffee.

"Within about 10 days, McQueary met at the Bryce Jordan Center with Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz and Athletic Director Tim Curley. The entire meeting lasted about 10 or 15 minutes, McQueary testified."

http://onwardstate.com/2013/07/29/m...-in-curleyschultzspanier-preliminary-hearing/

Everything they did was intended to prevent a future he said/he said scenario like what happened in '98. They weren't concerned that a child had been abused, only that an accusation, regardless of merit, might occur in the future.
 
It's disgraceful to have 11 year old practicing a sport up until 9:00 on a school night. That means it's very likely that those kids don't go to bed until 10:00, which in turn means that they probably will not get 8 hours of sleep a night.

Jive, do you have young kids involved in sports? My guess is you don't based on your answer above.
My kids played fall and spring baseball games that started at 8:00 PM... for 12u teams. Earlier than that I had 10u girls and boys basketball practice starting at 7:30 PM. If you live in an area with a large youth population and a limited amount of field or gym space, this becomes the norm.
 
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My point was - maybe I wasn't clear:

That is - - If Sassano's "introduction" to MM begins in 2010 (on or about) - which I think is correct.....then Sassano's appraisal of MM's "consistency" from 2010 to date, is completely and utterly immaterial wrt the issues at hand in this case (which far pre-date 2010).




[FWIW - I share Sassano's opinion wrt 2010 (ish) - to date - While ANYONE could go in and pick apart "this word or that word", and make a case for "Four different stories" (or whatever the current "narrative" is........

The truth is that the gist of MM's testimonies since the legal proceedings have begun have been essentially consistent - with regard to all the key and significant points. (and certainly within the bounds of what one would expect - when you are asked to recall 10 year old information numerous times, by numerous folks, in numerous venues)]
Sooner or later this trial has to (one would hope) get into something meaningful (and not old re-hash, largely immaterial stuff).
We have - I think - 2 weeks blocked out on the court calendar for the trial.......
I'm thinking (and maybe hoping), its gonna' take a bit longer than that.

So far - from what we've seen in the reports anyway - the "trial" is sounding and looking a lot like "Page 53" of the "Penn State Scandal" thread on the TOS (the one that used to be populated by GTASCA, CDW, IronDoc and the rest of the circle-jerking gang.).......ie a lot of "old news" being beaten to death for the 117th time - - - with no relevant issues actually being discussed.
The fact that we continue to "bog down" in ...""old news" being beaten to death for the 117th time - - - with no relevant issues actually being discussed..." is just continuing confirmation that the legal process - ALL legal processes - involving the "Sandusky Situation" are being "managed from some back room somewhere".

While the currently known FACTS of this case can not exposed the DIRECT MOTIVES, there is undeniable questions concerning why key issues (and even the "space around" key issues) is so carefully being avoided.

ANSWER...CORRUPTION - There is AND HAS BEEN an invisible line between what the court has allowed and what is critical to resolving the TRUTHFULNESS of the State's case against EVERYONE. The continuing question is what is the purpose of slow walking and outright hiding details of key information is ....WHY??? Don't tell me that "that's just the way the court operates".. After 5+ years, there are still well defined signs that "strings are being pulled" so that each legal activity is controlled and thereby the confirmation of situations that the public (State) "Story" expose is also controlled.

I TOTALLY disagree with your contention that MM's account of "what he saw" has remained essentially consistent. If anything, you can see the "strings of manipulation" in EACH of the version which is publicly known. MM's accounts are based upon who his audience was AT THE TIME. If you could get the ACTUAL, TRUTHFUL scenario on which each "version" was delivered, you could validate this. Problem is....because of "Time Distortions" - meaning how can you question something 10+ years in the past ; great environment for telling "non-truths"- what MM said can not be properly vetted - even considering his full "under oath" testimony. Too many opportunities for corruption of what REALLY was said. This is why we have STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS for crimes because it become impossible to reconstruct and validate critical case information after enough time has passed.

Penn State, Paterno, C/S/S ALL have only one time period on which to be judged - that time is the MM report date of 2001! EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOTHING MORE THAN PURPOSEFUL DECEPTION. Reality...The case against "everyone Penn State" has been TOTALLY AND PURPOSEFULLY corrupted by co-mingling multiple time periods. Each "version" that MM delivered was to a different audience and therefore each version had a different content. Also...we don't know what "external influences" effected the delivery of each version.

SOLUTION....Forget versions, FOCUS ON WHAT CAN BE VETTED...the simple fact of exposing the "probable truth" in this case is just this....(1) Did MM report a CRIMINAL ACT - THEN...if he reported a CRIME, (2) what were the details of the crime... because THAT and ONLY THAT determines what was legal and proper to do.

Ten years AFTER this event, the only way we can effectively evaluate what was said in 2001 is to evaluate what THIRD-PARTIES to Penn State reported was said to them DIRECTLY. BOTH of those OUTSIDE OF PSU who MM reported he spoke to confirmed that - NO CRIME was observed. CASE CLOSED!!! The fabricated OAG story line is exposed as a criminal abuse of the Power of the State!

NEW CASE OPENED (A/K/A "The Real Crimes")....(1) Why did the OAG willingly and knowingly pressure MM to acknowledge a "Worst Case Scenerio" (that now appears to be of their construction) used as legal deception essential to supporting their "Story" and then ACTIVELY promote it in its entirety as FACT when other versions of MM's accounting were known. Add to that the fact that OAG investigator Fina PUBLICLY admitted Penn State Football exhibited no evidence of legal wrong doing in this matter?? (2) Why did the OAG charge C/S/S with criminal charges based on AT BEST highly suspicious "letter of the law" violations. Then (3) the final part of this NEW CASE...why 5+ years to even adjudicate the basic legal issues (like SOL) in the original charges brought against C/S/S??

THESE POINTS ARE KEY TO the OAG case and the promoted "Story" that the public takes as FACT. The newly exposed information all points to legal abuses by a group with controlling "strings"...something our REAL legal system says is CRIMINAL and PROHIBITS!
 
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Please don't make it out to be more than it was? A) Do you know anyone who doesn't 'shower up naked'? B) He wasn't a little kid. He was almost 14. C) If Jerry calls the kid up and says "get your homework done and I'll take you up to PSU to work out after dinner", what's really wrong with that? It was reportedly 9:30 on a Friday night. No school the next day.

The problem wasn't the time of day or that they were naked. The problem was that Alan Meyers and Jerry were alone in the facilities, which left Jerry, TSM and PSU "vulnerable" to a he said/he said scenario.

The notes and emails clearly demonstrate that what PSU was trying to do was prevent that from happening going forward. They weren't concerned at all that Alan Meyers might go to the authorities because they did not believe abuse had occurred. But they were concerned that a situation like what happened in '98 could happen in the future.
This set of statements NAIL IT.....
The problem wasn't the time of day or that they were naked. The problem was that Alan Meyers and Jerry were alone in the facilities, which left Jerry, TSM and PSU "vulnerable" to a he said/he said scenario.

The notes and emails clearly demonstrate that what PSU was trying to do was to prevent that from happening going forward. They weren't concerned at all that Alan Meyers might go to the authorities because they did not believe abuse had occurred. But they were concerned that a situation like what happened in '98 could happen in the future.

Here is the essential summary and "Black Hole Proof" concerning the 2001 incident and how PSU handled it!
 
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I'll play.

NEW CASE OPENED (A/K/A "The Real Crimes")....(1) Why did the OAG willingly and knowingly pressure MM to acknowledge a "Worst Case Scenerio" that now appears to be of their construction used for the legal deception essential to support their "Story" and then ACTIVELY promote it in its entirety as FACT when other versions of MM's accounting were known. Add to that the fact that OAG investigator Fina PUBLICLY admitted Penn State Football exhibited no evidence of legal wrong doing in this matter?? (2) Why did the OAG charge C/S/S with criminal charges based on AT BEST highly suspicious "letter of the law" violations. Then (3) the final part of this NEW CASE...why 5+ years to even adjudicate the basic legal issues (like SOL) in the original charges brought against C/S/S??

Firstly, I think we take for granted that folks in our Office of Attorney General are smarter that us - when really perhaps, it's just a case of prosecutorial power run amok with no one really questioning it all from the get-go.

Honestly? I think way too many people associated with this entire tragic saga are too busy, pulled in too many directions, misdirected with their own crises in their own orbits and simply have way too many loose ends hanging out there. This creates empty space, in which the media spills in to fill and et voilà - we have a clickbait worthy "story".

A media that is supposed to be our "watchdog" - but that dog jumped the fence and ran off a looonnngggg time ago.

We do know that:
  • Fina DID NOT need Mike's testimony to properly prosecute Jerry.
  • Fina DID need Mike to place this flaming garbage dumpster on the steps of Penn State.
  • Fina DID use the grand jury process to take out political enemies as the head gunslinger for Tom Corbett.
  • McGettigan (Fina) was counseled by Bruce Castor NOT to use Cynthia Baldwin in their case strategy. They did it anyway.
Again - I have to wonder why Linda Kelly, who had the not-so-secret-secret emails didn't just straight up hold another news conference, waving them in the air and indict Dr. Spanier.

Why have Freeh do the dirty work?

We would have believed AG Kelly. What was the case strategy here by Fina & McGettigan?
 
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If a slapping sound indicates a sexual act then we all got laid alot more than we thought. Hell, the nuns were sexually abusing me everyday by slapping me.

Good point. I have been wondering what a "sexual sound is". Slapping? huh? Through a door and over a running shower. Hard to imagine without a lot of other "sounds."

Finally, who gives a hoot about Dranov being a mandated reporter or not.
"Did you think based on what MM told you a report to the police was warranted" -answer "No" and MR or not he was a doctor.To me nuff said
 
Five years later here is what I think
.whatever MM saw he was definitely uncomfortable
. he didn't actually see an "act" going on but knew something wasn't right
. I don't think he heard sounds either. I have always been troubled by "sounds" through a door and a running shower. Also as others have said the positioning and lack of discomfort of the vic make anything like a rape unlikely.
. However he was disturbed so the "sounds" story conveyed something in between what he knew he didn't see but thought might have been going on"
. his communication was vague enough to Dranov and Mr M. that notifying Joe but not the police made sense. Something not right but nothing certain. Not enough for Dranov to sink his teeth into and contact the police.[see what i did there?]
. MM tells JVP an even more watered down story.
. MM tells TC/GS a version similar to JM and Dranov.
. TC/GS hear a the watered down version from JVP and a vague story from MM.
. TC/GS know Dranov and JM both more experienced and trained than they are didn't think it was serious enough to report to police and have heard an even more vague version from Joe so the thought to contact police doesn't cross their mind.
. as time wheres on and more is learned about JS MM becomes more convinced than ever that he saw abuse.
. that may be the same case with JVP's testimony. remember he probably has very little recollection, but he knows what he heard was bad enough to tell TC/GS so what would that be "something sexual in nature"

"In hindsight" everything everyone heard and saw sounds like child sexual abuse. HOWEVER, in real time none of it did, so knowing about 98 [this Jerry showering thing is too weird] TC/GS put a plan in place to at least protect the university and they tell JR in an attempt to protect the kids.[oops!]
Everyone [including MM] acted in from 2001 until 2010 like this was an uncomfortable and not proper way to act but NOT CSA.
 
One thing that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that the the last time MM saw Sandusky and the kid that night they were still together. Dranov and JM gave MM the advice to wait until the next day and tell the football coach. Who on God's green earth would do that if they thought the kid had been sexually abused within the last hour or two and at last sight was still in the company of the perpetrator? Sorry but that shit doesn't flush.
 
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You did not answer the question.

Take this thought to any other message board and see what they say.

And a group shower at the YMCA, is not a two person shower at 10 pm at night with one 60 year old man and one ten year old child.

God, you are reprehensible. Sickening to see you try to defend a pedophile.
It is "sickening" to see you reverse all of Darwins hard work

Although:
Regressing to the intellect of a chimp - in just one generation - may be your greatest accomplishment.........yes, even more impressive than your 5th place finish at states :)
 
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It is "sickening" to see you reverse all of Darwins hard work

Although:
Regressing to the intellect of a chimp - in just one generation - may be your greatest accomplishment.........yes, even more impressive than your 5th place finish at states :)

For those who have seen Napolean Dynamite, my visual every time I see a 21Guns post is Uncle Rico sitting at a keyboard...
 
So is Mikes dad lying? Didn't Mike testify that he heard the sounds through 2 doors before he entered the locker room?

- John McQueary, Mike McQueary’s father, testified about the night of Feb. 9, 2001, when his son saw Sandusky and the boy in the shower. He testified that Mike called him from the Lasch Football building clearly upset and told him he had just seen Sandusky in the shower with a boy, and that “they were doing inappropriate things.” The younger McQueary told him that Sandusky was behind the boy in the shower and that when McQueary had entered the locker room he “could hear rhythmic, or slapping sounds.” He said he looked a second time and they had separated.
 
It is "sickening" to see you reverse all of Darwins hard work

Although:
Regressing to the intellect of a chimp - in just one generation - may be your greatest accomplishment.........yes, even more impressive than your 5th place finish at states :)

Not a big fan of your tone but the Darwin line is a good one
 
I was in high school in the late 90s and no one showered after sports or gym class. Literally no one.

I can't believe you're my age and you're such an asshole. How did you get this way? I figured you were some grizzled war veteran from Nam.
 
So is Mikes dad lying? Didn't Mike testify that he heard the sounds through 2 doors before he entered the locker room?

I don't think that ANYONE's testimony about something that happened 15 years ago is reliable and this is doubly true of a guy who managed to forget his own appearance at a preliminary hearing.
 
I don't think that ANYONE's testimony about something that happened 15 years ago is reliable and this is doubly true of a guy who managed to forget his own appearance at a preliminary hearing.

A hearing that he had to drive 3 hours round trip to. Just completely slipped his memory. Convenient.
 
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I can't believe you're my age and you're such an asshole. How did you get this way? I figured you were some grizzled war veteran from Nam.
Eh... you just think I'm an asshole because I have a different opinion than you do.
 
What comments are so offensive to you?
I'll just go with the most recent. It's 'disgraceful' that children play sports on weekend nights up until 9PM. I laugh as I write that because I cannot believe you actually uttered that statement and stand by it. Really...Disgraceful? You come across as a 95-year-old woman stuck in the 1700's.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But, sometimes, you should keep your thoughts and your opinions inside your mind and not expose yourself in this manner.
 
The fact that we continue to "bog down" in ...""old news" being beaten to death for the 117th time - - - with no relevant issues actually being discussed..." is just continuing confirmation that the legal process - ALL legal processes - involving the "Sandusky Situation" are being "managed from some back room somewhere".

While the currently known FACTS of this case can not exposed the DIRECT MOTIVES, there is undeniable questions concerning why key issues (and even the "space around" key issues) is so carefully being avoided.

ANSWER...CORRUPTION - There is AND HAS BEEN an invisible line between what the court has allowed and what is critical to resolving the TRUTHFULNESS of the State's case against EVERYONE. The continuing question is what is the purpose of slow walking and outright hiding details of key information is ....WHY??? Don't tell me that "that's just the way the court operates".. After 5+ years, there are still well defined signs that "strings are being pulled" so that each legal activity is controlled and thereby the confirmation of situations that the public (State) "Story" expose is also controlled.

I TOTALLY disagree with your contention that MM's account of "what he saw" has remained essentially consistent. If anything, you can see the "strings of manipulation" in EACH of the version which is publicly known. MM's accounts are based upon who his audience was AT THE TIME. If you could get the ACTUAL, TRUTHFUL scenario on which each "version" was delivered, you could validate this. Problem is....because of "Time Distortions" - meaning how can you question something 10+ years in the past ; great environment for telling "non-truths"- what MM said can not be properly vetted - even considering his full "under oath" testimony. Too many opportunities for corruption of what REALLY was said. This is why we have STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS for crimes because it become impossible to reconstruct and validate critical case information after enough time has passed.

Penn State, Paterno, C/S/S ALL have only one time period on which to be judged - that time is the MM report date of 2001! EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOTHING MORE THAN PURPOSEFUL DECEPTION. Reality...The case against "everyone Penn State" has been TOTALLY AND PURPOSEFULLY corrupted by co-mingling multiple time periods. Each "version" that MM delivered was to a different audience and therefore each version had a different content. Also...we don't know what "external influences" effected the delivery of each version.

SOLUTION....Forget versions, FOCUS ON WHAT CAN BE VETTED...the simple fact of exposing the "probable truth" in this case is just this....(1) Did MM report a CRIMINAL ACT - THEN...if he reported a CRIME, (2) what were the details of the crime... because THAT and ONLY THAT determines what was legal and proper to do.

Ten years AFTER this event, the only way we can effectively evaluate what was said in 2001 is to evaluate what THIRD-PARTIES to Penn State reported was said to them DIRECTLY. BOTH of those OUTSIDE OF PSU who MM reported he spoke to confirmed that - NO CRIME was observed. CASE CLOSED!!! The fabricated OAG story line is exposed as a criminal abuse of the Power of the State!

NEW CASE OPENED (A/K/A "The Real Crimes")....(1) Why did the OAG willingly and knowingly pressure MM to acknowledge a "Worst Case Scenerio" (that now appears to be of their construction) used as legal deception essential to supporting their "Story" and then ACTIVELY promote it in its entirety as FACT when other versions of MM's accounting were known. Add to that the fact that OAG investigator Fina PUBLICLY admitted Penn State Football exhibited no evidence of legal wrong doing in this matter?? (2) Why did the OAG charge C/S/S with criminal charges based on AT BEST highly suspicious "letter of the law" violations. Then (3) the final part of this NEW CASE...why 5+ years to even adjudicate the basic legal issues (like SOL) in the original charges brought against C/S/S??

THESE POINTS ARE KEY TO the OAG case and the promoted "Story" that the public takes as FACT. The newly exposed information all points to legal abuses by a group with controlling "strings"...something our REAL legal system says is CRIMINAL and PROHIBITS!

As to your last paragraph, they not only violate criminal law, but equally -and probably more importantly - violate both the U.S. and Pennsylvania Constitutions! With the most egregious violations being severe violations of the Bill of Rights and GUARANTEED DUE PROCESS PROTECTIONS belonging to every single citizen! IOW, protections against TYRANNY which have been ignored here via the politicizing and corrupting of the judiciary such that "public corruption" and "tyranny" have been the end promoted result in an "Alice in Wonderland", "through the looking glass", "down the rabbit hole" style - "world turned upside down". Such that the new saying on the "coin of the realm" should be stamped with "In Government We Trust" (Felli's "humanist" bull$hit) instead of "In God We Trust"....because in regards to those words, what they are referring to is our trust in God's (i.e., "The Universe's") fundamental "moral values" being correct (i.e., we are all endowed with inalienable RIGHTS that accrue to "God's Law" [i.e., "The Universe's Law"]) -- essentially, we trust in "providence" and providence requires that we be humbled by it. When the "Government" is released from the restraint of operating under "God's Law" (i.e., "In God We Trust"), this is what you end up with - "tyranny" and "Man's Law" (i.e., "In Government We Trust").

The basic SCIENTIFIC FACT is that life must be led according to some "Philosophy" - a collection of fundamental principles, values and rules that we live by, "an ethos" (the same Greek root-word of "ethics") or in Latin, "mores". The Western World has been guided by "God's Law" as delivered by Moses since shortly after Jesus walked among us - especially by his simplification of what he termed the "Temporal Commandments" (Commandments 3-10 which deal with how we are to lead our lives here on earth and "treat each other"), which came to be called "The Golden Rule"....Christ said (using translated modern language), "Treat others as you would have yourself treated in the same circumstance". IOW, "Do not be a hypocrite" - Christ warned that judgement will be rendered to each of us according to our own "standard" (i.e., fundamental belief system in reverse...hence his warning, if one believes in treating themselves better than others, "narcissism", and has no humility, they will be in serious trouble at judgement day.).

Tyranny asks us to "In Government We Trust" to "protect us" and "guide us" on these matters...this is the path to "Man's Law" and the corruption of "The Law" (i.e., Government) until you reach a specific Man, and his law (i.e., "belief system", "philosophy", "religion" or whatever word you wish to use) - Hitler in the case of Germany, Stalin in Russia, Chavez in Venezuela, Kim Jong-il in North Korea, etc...

The moral fabric of our society is in crises because our corrupt lawyer-turned-politicians have driven us down the "In Government We Trust" road for their own self-interest, self-aggrandizement and self-ingatiation - it is a cancer upon our Great Country that is crowding out the Founding Father's true intent and guiding principles (i.e., a true foundation under true right and correctness, "The Universe's Binary Moral Law"...."Providence"....there is only "right" and "wrong" and "wrong" is defined as some or complete absence of "right" [IOW, it can be partially wrong, "imperfect", like most of us or it can be "pure evil", the complete absence of "right"]....."right" is the presence of God's intent in the "equation", while "wrong" or "pure evil" is the complete lack of God's presence or intent in the "equation". See there is only "right" or "good" in the world much like other "physics" properties that we measure such as light & dark [Christ's favorite analogy] or heat & cold. There is no such property as "dark" or "cold" - there are merely shades or degrees of how much light or heat is present....dark means less light present than we would like just as cold means there is less heat present than we would like...but there is no physical quality in the universe of "dark" or "cold" - science tells us there is ONLY the physical measurable properties of light and heat. When there is absolutely zero presence of light, we call it "complete darkness" (area around a "black hole") and when there is no heat of any kind present, we call it "absolute zero" on Kelvin Scale. IOW, there are shades or degrees of "Right" or "Good", but there is also "Pure Evil" where the Creator's providence is totally non-existent (just like complete darkness, i.e., "black hole", is defined by the complete absence of light).

Essentially, "Tyranny" is the removal of "providence" from the equation all the way up to complete absence, aka "pure evil" - meaning you are living by flawed "Man's Law" who has made themselves God in regards to these intents, purposes and interpretations. Or as the Founding Father's would have put it, we've become a "Nation of Governed People; rather than people governing a nation operating under a "just system" (i.e., "providence" - providence requires HUMILITY to our place in the universe and the universe's natural order and law)"....."Governed people" - i.e., sheeple - are by definition "Tyrannized" and human life is turned grossly into a "commodity" rather than "sacred" and "sacrosanct" as the beautiful miracle it is -- the "inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" get thrown out the window, etc.... The irony is that this Country was founded to FIGHT TYRANNY - to the death if necessary - and yet this is what we've come to in 2016......lifetime liar, moral-hypocrite and self-ingratiator Hillary Clinton telling us how much she cares about "the kids" - your kids???? I've got news for some of you people - hard evidence of her and her ex-president, career politico husband generating $50 million in speech fees over the last several years essentially selling access to, and protection from, "The Government" suggests she likes herself and her-own one hell of a lot more than she likes your kids! This country has gone to "hell in a hand-basket" and anybody with even a modicum of intelligence can see what took us here.......a corrupted Government and Justice System that was corrupted from the "inside-out" by our wonderful lawyer-turned-politicians "Carreer Self-Engratiators".
 
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I'll just go with the most recent. It's 'disgraceful' that children play sports on weekend nights up until 9PM. I laugh as I write that because I cannot believe you actually uttered that statement and stand by it. Really...Disgraceful? You come across as a 95-year-old woman stuck in the 1700's.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But, sometimes, you should keep your thoughts and your opinions inside your mind and not expose yourself in this manner.
That's quite a dumb thing to be mad about. Kids need sleep, it's important for their development. Oh the horror that I think kids' sports at that age should be over by 8:00 at the very latest.
 
That's quite a dumb thing to be mad about. Kids need sleep, it's important for their development. Oh the horror that I think kids' sports at that age should be over by 8:00 at the very latest.

How much do they pay you and UncleL(i)ar to be professional "spin doctors" (or possibly one in the same person with two-handles for all I know)? You two really are reprehensible, nauseating, morally-vacuous, hypocritical cretins willing to do or say anything for your masters. I believe the "professional" term is empty-suit, spineless lap-dogs....
 
Still begs the question of not going to the shower and showing Tim what/when/where.

Sitting in Tim's office just seems....non-urgent. But maybe that's just me.

I would think that the fact that the meeti
Did his first name start with an M and his middle name with a H? I think we are talking about the same kid. With a little bit of help from McGettigan, he changed his Grand Jury testimony from 1998 to late summer 2001 when he actually got to trial. He first used 2002 at trial, and then McGettigan directed him to the late summer 2001 date with some photographs.

The AG needed a Victim to be assaulted on the Penn State campus after Victim 2 to strengthen their case against C/S/S. Victim 5 was the sacrificial lamb.

I don't know his middle initial but his first name does begin with M so I assume we are talking about the same guy.
 
So is Mikes dad lying? Didn't Mike testify that he heard the sounds through 2 doors before he entered the locker room?

- John McQueary, Mike McQueary’s father, testified about the night of Feb. 9, 2001, when his son saw Sandusky and the boy in the shower. He testified that Mike called him from the Lasch Football building clearly upset and told him he had just seen Sandusky in the shower with a boy, and that “they were doing inappropriate things.” The younger McQueary told him that Sandusky was behind the boy in the shower and that when McQueary had entered the locker room he “could hear rhythmic, or slapping sounds.” He said he looked a second time and they had separated.

I got to admit, your criteria for "lying" is pretty low. There were two doors to the locker room, McQueary testified that he heard the sounds after he opened the first door but before he opened the second. Now if you want to argue that he wasn't really into the locker room until he opened the second door, I suppose you could make a case that that was true. But suggesting that John McQueary is "lying" because he states Mike heard the sounds after entering the locker room is a huge huge stretch.
 
How much do they pay you and UncleL(i)ar to be professional "spin doctors" (or possibly one in the same person with two-handles for all I know)? You two really are reprehensible, nauseating, morally-vacuous, hypocritical cretins willing to do or say anything for your masters. I believe the "professional" term is empty-suit, spineless lap-dogs....
At least you didn't use any caps... that's a start.
 
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