I watched this game played on a Friday night in Chicago. Northwestern could not even fill their 12,000 seat temporary “stadium.” Probably the biggest reason why is it looked like watching Brown vs Penn, and not the 1949 version. This is one of the big problems with college football right now. MLB lost its place in the sports hierarchy because of its anticompetitive structure. College football is on the same path.
Duke vs Northwestern
- Thread starter Kasparaitis
- Start date
Duke and Northwestern have never been power programs that compete for titles. How is this any different than how it’s always been?
Double check your history. Northwestern has 3 Big Ten Championships since we’ve been in the conference. We have 4. Northwestern has played in the championship game twice. We’ve played once. I don’t think Northwestern is likely to win the Big Ten any time soon. I don’t know about us.
Their 3 titles are regulated to 6 year period that was nearly 25 years ago. They have had 13 losing seasons since that last title. They were also in the West division, which most years was like winning an award for "tallest midget".
They are not a power program. And seem destined to slip further.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. He said that Northwestern never competed for titles. That’s clearly incorrect. Regardless of the makeup of the league they used to compete for titles about as often as we did. Everyone agrees that they can no longer compete. This is one example of the anti-competitive trend that I’m warning of. Even Northwestern appears to see the writing on the wall because they are renovating their stadium from 47,000 (already the lowest of the Big Ten) to 30,000.
Their ability to compete is the same as it always has been
National titles bro. They also once went 60 years between Big Ten titles, 64 years without winning a bowl game and once lost 34 games is a row. But, the whole not being able to compete with the big boys is new?
I’m well aware of their Big 10 titles, in some very down years in the conference. I will agree, it may be 60 years until they win another conference title.
Before Pat Fitzgerald got there they were a complete joke. Barnett had a couple good years but unless they find another Fitzgerald they'll never be average let alone a contender. For them--it's about a coach and the hope that every 3 years or so they're competitive.
He said they've never been "power programs that competed for titles" ... and that's true. Northwestern had a little run where they were competing for conference titles, but they were never a "power program" and that brief flash of success quickly died off ... long ago.
Northwestern could easily fund a premier athletic program (and drop academic standards at the same time), if that's what they chose to do ... but they've chosen otherwise.
Sorry I missed where you said winning national titles. If you’re talking about winning national titles only 9 teams have won titles in the last 18 years. Apparently about 120 teams can’t compete by your measure.
Your original point is that they can’t compete now. My assertion was they never have “competed” by whatever measure you wish to define competing. They had a little run in a very down Big 10 in the late 90’s, with their last title coming even before Julian Fleming was born.
Their all time winning percentage is .448, only Indiana and Wake Forest are worse all time among power conference schools.
You are mischaracterizing what I said and what you said.. Facts are stubborn things. Northwestern played for titles in the Big Ten on par with Penn State. Now they can’t. That’s all I’m saying and that’s a fact. Now you changed titles to national championships which is an even smaller subset of teams and leaves Penn State completely out of the discussion. All time winning percentages are irrelevant even by your own standards which seem to begin at the birth of Julian Fleming. We were talking about teams who can “compete for a title.” Northwestern used to be able to, now they are not.
The more you say, the more people get to know the real you. My advice would be that it is considerably in your best interest to say less.
That response is not a good look for you, in response to someone declining your sexual advances. Kasparapist?
Actually, sold out (despite higher ticket prices), but as is often the case, the expensive seats are sold but not used.
Also, the people in the South stands tend to disperse (gets really hot during day games) to better seats.
Aside from the Domers, smaller national private schools don't fill their stadiums because their alums are spread across the country (hence the downsizing of stadiums at NU, Stanford, etc).
Every pre-expansion B1G school has more alums in the Chicago-land area than NU.
Pat couldn't do what his 2 predecessors did, despite significantly more administration and booster support.
While Fitzgerald was the "face" of NU FB, he was a below average game day coach, was stubborn and slow to make needed changes (such as hanging on to incompetent co-ordinators) and couldn't field even an average O-line in about a decade.
But the worst decision he made was to hire his buddy as DC (most of us knew it was a disaster waiting to happen) and the Cats went from having a D (that continually had to carry a mediocre O) to being bad on both sides of the ball.
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This is factually incorrect. The official announced attendance was in the 11,000’s and the reported capacity of their temp field is over 12,000. When you watched the game you could see empty seating areas in the stands as well. Northwestern not having alums is another issue. Perhaps they are better suited for the Patriot League.
Most people believe that Fitzgerald was the best coach Northwestern ever had. The problem with Northwestern is their woke administration, particularly the weak and ineffective president..
And they would be wrong.
There are a number of coaches that were better, including Ara Parseghian, Pappy Waldorf and Walter McCormack.
And what Barnett did was a miracle.
Fitz had a nice run, but his stubbornness and old school ways prevented the program from achieving more (during a period where NU football had unprecedented financial support).
Well, if there is no merit to those allegations of hazing (including of a sexual nature), Fitz should have no problem chipping in to the legal fund to address the numerous lawsuits - right?
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Pretty much sold out is not sold out. Attendance was less than capacity. Simple concept. I’m not going to debate Northwestern’s football history because I have no dog in that fight. In fact I would say it’s 50-50 whether they will even continue their sports program in my lifetime.
This was one of the silliest and least relevant posts I've ever encountered in many years of site membership; your unsavory and disrespectful replies to fellow posters speaks volumes and loudly.
I agree 100%. Second level teams used to be able to make a run every so often. It might have been mid level recruits performing above analyst ratings or it could just be a lot of seniors. But now money is going to pull top players away from second level teams. Can you imagine teams like Northwestern making the BiG championship game in the next decade?
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, PSUALREADYKNOW. Its difficult to see how making an observation about the demise of Northwestern football, as the conference adds heavyweights like Ucla and USC, is silly and irrelevant but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
As far as your unsavory and disrespectful comment I don’t like bullies and fools. I only reply in kind when I’m attacked. If you truly have been paying attention to this site you would know that Lando litters every post with his foolish nonsense, arguing in circles, just for the sake of arguing. He has stated that he considers comments on a message board “going to war.” I respond to him in a manner that he invites.
And Perfect Pitch is both a bully and a fool. He doesn’t like when he’s put in his place and lashes out with crazy comments intended to disparage me but all they really do is reveal his mental instability. Oh, and I give Steelers fans the business now and then but other than that I’m a harmless, little fuzzball, minding my own business.
As far as your unsavory and disrespectful comment I don’t like bullies and fools. I only reply in kind when I’m attacked. If you truly have been paying attention to this site you would know that Lando litters every post with his foolish nonsense, arguing in circles, just for the sake of arguing. He has stated that he considers comments on a message board “going to war.” I respond to him in a manner that he invites.
And Perfect Pitch is both a bully and a fool. He doesn’t like when he’s put in his place and lashes out with crazy comments intended to disparage me but all they really do is reveal his mental instability. Oh, and I give Steelers fans the business now and then but other than that I’m a harmless, little fuzzball, minding my own business.
NU made a big, expensive mistake in firing Fitz. They should have put Fitz on paid administrative leave until all the accusations were sorted out.
Not necessarily disagreeing with that (overall, handled poorly), but Fitz partially helped dig his own grave thinking a couple of weeks suspension during the off-season would be enough to offset allegations of hazing, especially of a sexual nature.
For someone who always talked big about responsibility, he seemed pretty eager to evade it in this case.
Gee, less than a thousand really makes a huge difference, especially as students aren't even on campus.
No one is saying that NU has a big fan base, much less season ticket holders (usually average around 12-15k), but that's been the case for over a century and when the program hasn't been hamstrung by the admin (like for during the "Dark Ages"), they've been competitive enough.
Since 1995, the Cats have done better than the majority of B1G programs that aren't dOSU, UM, PSU, UW and Iowa (and with the latter 2, have around a .500 record).
Does this mean that they will be in the running for the national championship? no
Or even a B1G championship? Probably not, but wouldn't be surprised to see them make some noise every 4-5 years with an upperclass-laden team.
Once the new stadium is finished, the big donors will switch their focus to NIL.
Now, due to academic restrictions (which, btw, Dook does not have), will continue to have certain limitations when it comes to recruiting and the transfer portal, but most of us are fine with that.
I’m not out to knock Northwestern. I will admit that I’m a little sensitive about college administrations firing successful coaches based on unproven allegations. I just look at a Friday night Big Ten game, against a similarly aligned school, in the third largest metro area in the US and wonder why they can’t draw more than 11,000 fans. I see Northwestern downsizing its stadium, already the smallest in the conference. And I see programs in LA, the second biggest metro area in the country, both with giant stadiums, joining the conference and I say what’s going on here?
