FC: Hypocrisy in CFB

[Richard the LIONhearted]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/...ate-football.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I still believe the student athletes at PS have to do the work....but, how many other FSU's are out there?

 

[Bobpsu]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/...ate-football.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I still believe the student athletes at PS have to do the work....but, how many other FSU's are out there?

Sad story!

 

[ram2020]

Boy, the NYT loves to go after the Seminoles it seems, not that it isnt warranted. I don't think we are dealing with hypocrisy anymore related to big time college football. I think its just apathy at this point. The NCAA doesn't care anymore, evidenced by UNC still somehow unpunished. The schools don't care anymore, they know where their bread is buttered(Baylor, F$U). The only people that can change this at this level are coaches that actually demand class of their students, Franklin does...most don't care about these kids. If you are looking for hypocrisy look no further than what happened to our beloved University.....we are the school with the culture problem.

 

[Art]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/...ate-football.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I still believe the student athletes at PS have to do the work....but, how many other FSU's are out there?

In various ways, shapes, and forms, the majority of schools that participate in major college sports. The NCAA's GSR and APR standards are testimony to that. Truth be told, as fans we acquiesce to it.

 

[Art]

Boy, the NYT loves to go after the Seminoles it seems, not that it isnt warranted. I don't think we are dealing with hypocrisy anymore related to big time college football. I think its just apathy at this point. The NCAA doesn't care anymore, evidenced by UNC still somehow unpunished. The schools don't care anymore, they know where their bread is buttered(Baylor, F$U). The only people that can change this at this level are coaches that actually demand class of their students, Franklin does...most don't care about these kids. If you are looking for hypocrisy look no further than what happened to our beloved University.....we are the school with the culture problem.

That's because it's such an easy target. Over the years, I sent a Times writer, who is presently employed by another journal, a number of leads. They would have required some digging. Never happened; the guy was simply too lazy.

If you're looking to coaches to reform the system, it's not going to happen. Reality is that it's hopeless which is why I've taken the position to drop the sham and simply pay the kids.

 

[LionJim]

In various ways, shapes, and forms, the majority of schools that participate in major college sports. The NCAA's GSR and APR standards are testimony to that. Truth be told, as fans we acquiesce to it.

Yep. This is old news.

Athletics aside, plagiarism is a huge problem in academia today, especially on online courses. In mathematics, for example, it's a simple matter to do integration and differentiation by using online calculators. That's just one specific example.

 

[Art]

My goodness.
The leader of the University surely has a lot to answer for.
Who was the President at FSU while all this was going on?

Wasn't this also during the time frame of Jameis Winston - and others' - transgressions?

I'm sure that whoever it is has plausible deniability.

 

[Art]

Stating that "plagiarism" is a problem in present day academia, is - as I am sure you will agree - a far, far cry from what this report outlines.
Plagiarism is not equal to:
Having "student-athletes" not do the work, not complete their assignments, fail the class - and then have intermediaries between the Athletic Department and the Academic side coerce the instructor to "pass" the "student-athlete" anyway. Because the "student-athlete" has to remain eligible.

Two entirely different issues, with only one tangential common factor (the plagiarism issue)

In most cases the "intermediaries" are part and parcel of the academic side.

 

[lionlurker]

If Fields ends up at FSU, after all the talk about the importance of academics, it will be a bad look for him.

 

[mdking001]

At least when I went to school you had to somewhat work when plagiarizing as you had to write down everything so some of it could have stuck in the mind. Now they simply go to Wiki or some other online source, copy/paste and not even read what they are pasting. Sad.

 

[Brad908]

IDK, after watching Last Chance U and seeing we have/had people like Kamonte Carter, we probably help the athletes just as much as everyone else. He was on the extreme side, but I am sure there is a lot of help to keep some eligible.

 

[LionJim]

Stating that "plagiarism" is a problem in present day academia, is - as I am sure you will agree - a far, far cry from what this report outlines.

Surely.

 

[Woodpecker]

Yep. This is old news.

Athletics aside, plagiarism is a huge problem in academia today, especially on online courses. In mathematics, for example, it's a simple matter to do integration and differentiation by using online calculators. That's just one specific example.

And athletics aside, plagiarism is a huge problem in academia today, especially on online courses. In mathematics, for example, it's a simple matter to do integration and differentiation by using online calculators. That's just one specific example.

 

[LionJim]

And athletics aside, plagiarism is a huge problem in academia today, especially on online courses. In mathematics, for example, it's a simple matter to do integration and differentiation by using online calculators. That's just one specific example.

Well played, Wrangle.

 

[psu00]

My goodness.
The leader of the University surely has a lot to answer for.
Who was the President at FSU while all this was going on?

Wasn't this also during the time frame of Jameis Winston - and others' - transgressions?

Yeah, who was the Florida State University president at that time?

You can bet that if some blowback starts heading his way over the issues at FSU- he will be the first to demand due process.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/...ate-football.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I still believe the student athletes at PS have to do the work....but, how many other FSU's are out there?

Meanwhile....

 

[lionlurker]

Too bad our culture is so rotten.

 

[PSU_l]

That's because it's such an easy target. Over the years, I sent a Times writer, who is presently employed by another journal, a number of leads. They would have required some digging. Never happened; the guy was simply too lazy.

If you're looking to coaches to reform the system, it's not going to happen. Reality is that it's hopeless which is why I've taken the position to drop the sham and simply pay the kids.

The NCAA (college sports "self-regulatory" organization) is run by the Member Universities Chief Executives (and is, in fact, an "Organization of University Presidents & Chancellors); it is not in any way run by the Coaches. It is the diametric opposite in reality - the corrupt, self-dealing Presidents & Chancellors (who are able to pay themselves more and more lucrative packages as Athletic Revenue rises) hire the corrupt coaches to "win regardless of means" (including blatant outright cheating like at UNC) and then do a "Three Monkeys" routine at the NCAA via the many committees they corruptly serve on including the General Membership Committee. The corrupt University Presidents are the parties responsible for using the NCAA as a "Shield and Sword" for their cheating, not the coaches.....the coaches are merely their equally corrupt servile hired pawns and henchman.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

More culture issues - these kids actually do summer internships!

 

[Obliviax]

In various ways, shapes, and forms, the majority of schools that participate in major college sports. The NCAA's GSR and APR standards are testimony to that. Truth be told, as fans we acquiesce to it.

Well stated. And when I hear that JVP was old and behind the times, I think that may be true. But his teams were competitive in the years from 2005 ~ 2011. But I feel like they were not MNC contenders because Joe would never let PSU put "athlete" in front of "student" for college "student/athletes". If that is "old school" so be it. If Joe's team went 9-3 instead of 11-1 and the kids graduated, that was by Joe's intent. Case in point, PSU was awarded the Academic Bowl Championship in 2011. This was for the highest academic rating of ANY college team to participate in a bowl in 2011 (the scandal year). That is something like 80 teams.

 

[BobPSU92]

Meanwhile....

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

 

[BiochemPSU]

Probably 20 to 40% of these athletes don't belong in a true 4 year college setting. They lack the academic preparation and focus to succeed at anything other than football and doing what they want. They should be playing in a minor league system and after their careers are over, head back to an appropriate college for a degree where the focus is on the degree and learning.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Might want to be cautious with respect to what you want to puff out your chest over.

Penn State's President's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any Top-25 program:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/content/graduation-rates-top-25-football-teams

Penn State's Athletic Director's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any D-1 program nationwide:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...st-graduation-rate-in-all-of-college-football

Aside from the Head Football Coach - who's resume is pretty good - the resume of the current Penn State Administration would have to be the worst in the Country. Will those "leopards" suddenly change their spots? Or will past be prologue?
There is a reason that the phrase "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" is so commonly used.

Puffing my chest about the student athletes. Take care.

 

[Art]

Probably 20 to 40% of these athletes don't belong in a true 4 year college setting. They lack the academic preparation and focus to succeed at anything other than football and doing what they want. They should be playing in a minor league system and after their careers are over, head back to an appropriate college for a degree where the focus is on the degree and learning.

The percentage is higher....unless the college is Mississippi State or LSU, etc. Beyond the point where Alabama would be on that list.

 

[PSU_l]

Might want to be cautious with respect to what you want to puff out your chest over.

Penn State's President's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any Top-25 program:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/content/graduation-rates-top-25-football-teams

Penn State's Athletic Director's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any D-1 program nationwide:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...st-graduation-rate-in-all-of-college-football

Aside from the Head Football Coach - who's resume is pretty good - the resume of the current Penn State Administration would have to be the worst in the Country with regard to the "Student" part of student-athlete.
They are both too new on the job to draw any data points with regard to their impact, but will those "leopards" suddenly change their spots? Or will past be prologue?
There is a reason that the phrase "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" is so commonly used.

WTF are you talking about? What does any of this bull$hit have to do with the academic performance of PSU Student-Athletes at PSU now, the past decade, quarter century, half century, etc...? PSU's Student-Athletes have arguably the BEST TRACKRECORD in the Country in terms of being extremely relevant on a national level while performing in the classroom (i.e., PSU's Football Team has consistently been one of the best absolute performing academic programs while also being a consistent Top 20 Ranked team over the last 50 years, not just this year!) - contrary to the inane claims of your post.

 

[PSU_l]

My point, perhaps I was not clear - and I meant no disparagement to you - is that Penn State's "student"-athlete legacy was not built by the current Administration. And the current Administration's track record - being what it is - may not lead to a high degree of confidence with regard to the continuation of "student" success in the student-athlete equation.
Nor would the early-returns on either of the top Administrators' performance to-date indicate a change from their past "accomplishments" was in the cards. Rather, to the contrary.

That being the case, the ability to claim pride in the superiority of the athletic program's academic achievements may be a fleeting opportunity.

Really? Coach Franklin has a very good track record in regards to producing TRUE "Student"-athletes and has a value-system (and ideals) very similar to Coach Paterno in this regard. Utter nonsense to claim that Coach Franklin's players have not performed in the classroom - not just utter nonsense, but a defamatory, baseless lie aimed at PSU's Student-Athletes, and intended to defame PSU's Program, that should not be permitted to stand on this board.

 

[Obliviax]

Might want to be cautious with respect to what you want to puff out your chest over.

Penn State's President's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any Top-25 program:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/content/graduation-rates-top-25-football-teams

Penn State's Athletic Director's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any D-1 program nationwide:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...st-graduation-rate-in-all-of-college-football

Aside from the Head Football Coach - who's resume is pretty good - the resume of the current Penn State Administration would have to be the worst in the Country with regard to the "Student" part of student-athlete.
They are both too new on the job to draw any data points with regard to their impact, but will those "leopards" suddenly change their spots? Or will past be prologue?
There is a reason that the phrase "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" is so commonly used.

hold on there, sparky. PSU had the best graduation rate of all of the bowl games in 2011 and won the "academic bowl championship". So the stats for 2012 don't ring true. Perhaps this is due to sanctions and several players leaving after 2011 to play for other programs, but that would be an anomaly.

 

[dsites52]

This whole debate seems pretty moot to me. LIke many people on here, I was always happy to throw out stats about Penn State's academic achievements, but then the sh*t hit the proverbial fan back in 2011. Sure, it's nice to have academic accolades, but like my favorite 3rd string tO$U QB said, "We ain't here to play school". If academics took an Alabama-like dip and there were multiple NC to make up for it, then I think I would be okay with that.

I know, it's "student-athlete" but lets be honest, "Yeah, well look at our graduation rate!" is like getting knocked out by your best friend and then telling him that at least your dad could beat up his dad.

 

[Obliviax]

Read the words. The information/data is with regard to the resumes of Penn State's current President and AD at their prior jobs.

what does that have to do with anything? I only care about PSU, at PSU.

 

[PSU_l]

Read the words. The information/data is with regard to the resumes of Penn State's current President and AD at their prior jobs.

Again, what does that have to do with PSU Student-Athletes moron?

 

[katchthis]

That's because it's such an easy target. Over the years, I sent a Times writer, who is presently employed by another journal, a number of leads. They would have required some digging. Never happened; the guy was simply too lazy.

If you're looking to coaches to reform the system, it's not going to happen. Reality is that it's hopeless which is why I've taken the position to drop the sham and simply pay the kids.

WSJ had an article recently that stated just that fact. Pay the kids already. Institutions are pissing money away every way possible except through payment. Schools are building multi-million dollar dorms with lazy rivers, etc. Soon, there will be no other avenue over than pay to bring the kids to your school. Hey , it works at Alabama, tic.

 

[PSU_l]

This whole debate seems pretty moot to me. LIke many people on here, I was always happy to throw out stats about Penn State's academic achievements, but then the sh*t hit the proverbial fan back in 2011. Sure, it's nice to have academic accolades, but like my favorite 3rd string tO$U QB said, "We ain't here to play school". If academics took an Alabama-like dip and there were multiple NC to make up for it, then I think I would be okay with that.

I know, it's "student-athlete" but lets be honest, "Yeah, well look at our graduation rate!" is like getting knocked out by your best friend and then telling him that at least your dad could beat up his dad.

Huh? Since when do you define what PSU-affiliated parties have a right to be proud of including PSU's LONG TRADITION of "Success With Honor" and "The Grand Experiment"? I doubt you even went to PSU to be "honest" with you. Again, since when do you determine what PSU-affiliated parties such as Alumnus should "root" for at PSU? I and 4 of my direct family members hold degrees from PSU.....I have been going to PSU tailgates since the early 1970s and I have yet to meet anyone who wants to operate PSU Athletics with a COMPLETE LACK OF INTEGRITY as you are suggesting.......on the contrary, everyone I know from my affiliation with PSU is extremely proud of PSU's Athletic Department's TRADITION all the way back to its founding of "Success With Honor", extreme INTEGRITY and CHARACTER.

 

[LionJim]

Might want to be cautious with respect to what you want to puff out your chest over.

Penn State's President's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any Top-25 program:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/content/graduation-rates-top-25-football-teams

Penn State's Athletic Director's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any D-1 program nationwide:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...st-graduation-rate-in-all-of-college-football

Aside from the Head Football Coach - who's resume is pretty good - the resume of the current Penn State Administration would have to be the worst in the Country with regard to the "Student" part of student-athlete.
They are both too new on the job to draw any data points with regard to their impact, but will those "leopards" suddenly change their spots? Or will past be prologue?
There is a reason that the phrase "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" is so commonly used.

The missing ingredient is the PSU culture. The faculty wouldn't stand for any of the shenanigans we've read about in the OP link. A new president and a new AD wouldn't be able to change that. It's possible Frankliin could change the culture for the worse if he wanted to but, one, it would take years to do so, and, two, why would he want to do something like that? If it's not his greatest recruiting selling point, it's way up there.

When talk of Joe retiring started taking hold there was a lot of hand-wringing about how the academic culture for athletes was at risk with a new coach. I said no way is it going to change. I'm not here to puff my chest out about being right, as anyone with experience in academe would know how things were going to play out. It's the culture. The faculty, the coaches, and the student athletes buy into it, so it's no surprise we've maintained the academic side of the equation.

 

[PSU_l]

Are you medicated?

Wow, anybody who points out your bull$hit and lies now needs to be medicated? You must be a real treat - you must be used to getting your sorry putz @ss kicked, huh toolboy?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I wonder if the WSJ will rework their College Football program matrix to reflect more current info

 

[dsites52]

Huh? Since when do you define what PSU-affiliated parties have a right to be proud of including PSU's LONG TRADITION of "Success With Honor" and "The Grand Experiment"? I doubt you even went to PSU to be "honest" with you. Again, since when do you determine what PSU-affiliated parties such as Alumnus should "root" for at PSU? I and 4 of my direct family members hold degrees from PSU.....I have been going to PSU tailgates since the early 1970s and I have yet to meet anyone who wants to operate PSU Athletics with a COMPLETE LACK OF INTEGRITY as you are suggesting.......on the contrary, everyone I know from my affiliation with PSU is extremely proud of PSU's Athletic Department's TRADITION all the way back to its founding of "Success With Honor", extreme INTEGRITY and CHARACTER.

Whoa. Easy, gramps. My post was one of personal opinion. Also, I didn't go as far as even suggesting that other people should feel the same. I would apologize for my opinions, but that's far too liberal for me. For the record, you're correct. I never took a class at Main. Spent a semester at a satellite campus and ultimately graduated from a state school. I will apologize for the fact that I was never aware that being an alumnus was a requirement for Penn State fandom.

 

[BobPSU92]

Might want to be cautious with respect to what you want to puff out your chest over.

Penn State's President's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any Top-25 program:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/content/graduation-rates-top-25-football-teams

Penn State's Athletic Director's prior job:
Worst academic performance of any D-1 program nationwide:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...st-graduation-rate-in-all-of-college-football

Aside from the Head Football Coach - who's resume is pretty good - the resume of the current Penn State Administration would have to be the worst in the Country with regard to the "Student" part of student-athlete.
They are both too new on the job to draw any data points with regard to their impact, but will those "leopards" suddenly change their spots? Or will past be prologue?
There is a reason that the phrase "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" is so commonly used.

WRONG. METRICS.

OUR. LIBRARY. SUCKS.

 

[BobPSU92]

This whole debate seems pretty moot to me. LIke many people on here, I was always happy to throw out stats about Penn State's academic achievements, but then the sh*t hit the proverbial fan back in 2011. Sure, it's nice to have academic accolades, but like my favorite 3rd string tO$U QB said, "We ain't here to play school". If academics took an Alabama-like dip and there were multiple NC to make up for it, then I think I would be okay with that.

I know, it's "student-athlete" but lets be honest, "Yeah, well look at our graduation rate!" is like getting knocked out by your best friend and then telling him that at least your dad could beat up his dad.

Don't be stupid.

 

[LionJim]

Whoa. Easy, gramps. My post was one of personal opinion. Also, I didn't go as far as even suggesting that other people should feel the same. I would apologize for my opinions, but that's far too liberal for me. For the record, you're correct. I never took a class at Main. Spent a semester at a satellite campus and ultimately graduated from a state school. I will apologize for the fact that I was never aware that being an alumnus was a requirement for Penn State fandom.

You said the issue was moot, and, yeah, it's moot. It's interesting to fantasize what we PSU fans would do were the school to sell their academic soul to the devil and become FSU North, but I'd rather fantasize about making out with Virginia Madsen.

 

[psu00]

I think Norm was just saying that the success with honor tradition is a long practice at PSU (which everyone is proud of) but that we now have different leadership at AD and university president.

If they don't continue it (more than a 30 second comment to alumni at a bowl game pep rally) it can erode over time. They both have had issues at other schools.

In fairness, Sandy has mentioned success with honor repeatedly. As long as actions follow the words- the ingrained culture will continue. If it becomes a secondary priority then trouble can follow given the high pressure and attitude of 'just win' that exists in college sports now.