fc no more pre game prayers??? I've never been a big fan of this

[Op2]

I think this falls under the definition of straw man as well.

Why is it a strawman? It's pressure put on by a coach, peer pressure put on by the players that do pray and it's divisive.

And what if some of the non-praying players had a conversation during the prayer or they turned on some music or whatever, as they should be allowed to do? There'd be no repercussions? Really?

It's football. Why are there group public prayers to begin with? Do students do a group public prayer before class begins? Does the post office do group public prayer before they start working on the mail? There is no point to it other than for it to be in your face. Anyone can pray anytime.

 

[sluggo72]

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument.

You're contorting what we're supporting. No one advocating for prayer has said a coach has the right to ask a player if Christ is his savior or convince him or sit him if he doesn't change his mind. I agree that would be wrong. But a coach leading a prayer for the safety of players shouldn't be objectionable either.

I am not contorting the argument, I am trying to find the line. You say its okay to pray, but not ask if Jesus Christ is their Savior. Why do you draw the line there?? In for a penny, in for a pound, right?? I say, don't even go down that rabbit hole, and you don't have to worry about any of this. Yet many program do go there, that's what I dont like.

 

[Judge Smails]

wow, I am just having trouble seeing how you can force a 19 year old to pray to a God he doesn't believe in or tell him to shut up and sit over there because he doesn't believe in the same God as his coach, why should anyone be forced to be put into that situation??? Shouldn't the coaches be the bigger men and not put his wards into that situation?

Just imagine....JUST IMAGINE....a Muslim coach who had the players all bow their heads while he prayed to Allah for a minute before every game. Could you even imagine the Christian parents in that scenario? Would we hear "Just sit quietly and respectfully"? And all of these posters in this thread would have the exact opposite opinion on that.

 

[Michael.Felli]

LJ, if you've been paying attention to this thread, you see quickly that Michael is anything but rational.

Although I agree with LionJim that this thread should probably die, having a zealot state that I'm not rational is comical.

In all of history, there have been a plethora of living organisms on this planet: plant, bacteria, fungi, viral, mammal, reptile. And, there are millions of species alive today. Not one species even cares if there is a God, other than man.

It is mans ARROGANCE that he is somewhat "above" the other species - aka, "special". When in fact, plants provide the air and bacteria in our gut (E. coli) keep us alive. Man is anything but special. And, if there were a God, he would destroy us before we destroy all of his creation. That is how aweful the human race is.

All species are here together. I will accept the OVERWHELMING lack of evidence in all of history that there isn't a deity. No species, other than man, has ever prayed to a deity. They simply live their life.

God (whichever he is to you) only exists in your head. He always has. Since you can not accept that or even consider the possibility simply means that you have a mental illness. Mild? Probably. But a mental illness, nonetheless.

The future has no place for this anymore. Not if humanity is to survive.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Just imagine....JUST IMAGINE....a Muslim coach who had the players all bow their heads while he prayed to Allah for a minute before every game. Could you even imagine the Christian parents in that scenario? Would we hear "Just sit quietly and respectfully"? And all of these posters in this thread would have the exact opposite opinion on that.

Why do you simply make things up? Have you never been around people of different faiths than yourself? It's not hard to be respectful if you actually give it a try. I could imagine those who are not Muslim not praying to a God they don't believe in much the same way those that have no faith wouldn't. Again it's a simple matter of respect to all religions and those that choose none. You can't project what you think may or may not happen based on your perception of an entire religion. It's the stupid thing the left and the right continue to do in this country. Play the extreme cards and simply toss out common sense.

What is the deal with making up these fake scenarios? What is it proving that we can make up extreme examples and guess on those outcomes? How about the Jewish coach who can't coach on Saturdays? Oh man, we haven't hit that one yet...let's give that one a shot.

 

[sluggo72]

Although I agree with LionJim that this thread should probably die, having a zealot state that I'm not rational is comical.

In all of history, there have been a plethora of living organisms on this planet: plant, bacteria, fungi, viral, mammal, reptile. And, there are millions of species alive today. Not one species even cares if there is a God, other than man.

It is mans ARROGANCE that he is somewhat "above" the other species - aka, "special". When in fact, plants provide the air and bacteria in our gut (E. coli) keep us alive. Man is anything but special. And, if there were a God, he would destroy us before we destroy all of his creation. That is how aweful the human race is.

All species are here together. I will accept the OVERWHELMING lack of evidence in all of history that there isn't a deity. No species, other than man, has ever prayed to a deity. They simply live their life.

God (whichever he is to you) only exists in your head. He always has. Since you can not accept that or even consider the possibility simply means that you have a mental illness. Mild? Probably. But a mental illness, nonetheless.

The future has no place for this anymore. Not if humanity is to survive.

Well Michael you can thank the new format for not letting this die!!!! LOL

 

[bmw199]

Just imagine....JUST IMAGINE....a Muslim coach who had the players all bow their heads while he prayed to Allah for a minute before every game. Could you even imagine the Christian parents in that scenario? Would we hear "Just sit quietly and respectfully"? And all of these posters in this thread would have the exact opposite opinion on that.

That's also a fallacy. Reductio ad absurdum is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

 

[slwlion]

especially forcing religion down someone's throat. Should be up to the player, imho.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/14/protest-pushes-toledo-to-nix-pregame-prayers/

Down with the National Anthem !!!

especially forcing religion down someone's throat. Should be up to the player, imho.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/14/protest-pushes-toledo-to-nix-pregame-prayers/

I hate it when they force the National Anthem "down someone's throat" .

 

[Op2]

Down with the National Anthem !!!

I hate it when they force the National Anthem "down someone's throat" .

That's actually a pretty good comparison. They play the National Anthem because it's the national song, for all of America. OTOH America has no national religion.

 

[cronk]

Why do you simply make things up? Have you never been around people of different faiths than yourself? It's not hard to be respectful if you actually give it a try. I could imagine those who are not Muslim not praying to a God they don't believe in much the same way those that have no faith wouldn't. Again it's a simple matter of respect to all religions and those that choose none. You can't project what you think may or may not happen based on your perception of an entire religion. It's the stupid thing the left and the right continue to do in this country. Play the extreme cards and simply toss out common sense.

What is the deal with making up these fake scenarios? What is it proving that we can make up extreme examples and guess on those outcomes? How about the Jewish coach who can't coach on Saturdays? Oh man, we haven't hit that one yet...let's give that one a shot.

are you trying to claim that Christian coaches are giving pure non-denominational prayers only for their kids to not be injured and not praying to "Our Savior Jesus Christ" "The one and only God" "Christ our Lord" etc My wife goes ape shit everytime she goes to a meeting at UCF where the non-denominational prayer turns into a revival meeting and it happens all the time, I wish we lived in a society where most prayers are inclusive but they are not

 

[Howie'81]

I will say one thing: because you can't prove anything here, it all goes down to a question of faith. Some people here have promoted a proof for existence/nonexistence; I'm not going to go there, I'm nowhere close to that, I never give this any thought. Faith works perfectly well for me, no reason it shouldn't, and, to make it clear, reason doesn't leave just because faith has entered the room.

Pope Saint John Paul II wrote an encyclical on this called "Fides et Ratio," meaning "Faith and Reason." He eloquently described and taught how the two go hand in hand. And they do.

 

[Howie'81]

Why is it a strawman? It's pressure put on by a coach, peer pressure put on by the players that do pray and it's divisive.

And what if some of the non-praying players had a conversation during the prayer or they turned on some music or whatever, as they should be allowed to do? There'd be no repercussions? Really?

It's football. Why are there group public prayers to begin with? Do students do a group public prayer before class begins? Does the post office do group public prayer before they start working on the mail? There is no point to it other than for it to be in your face. Anyone can pray anytime.

Because you assume incorrectly I believe, that the player is forced to pray in that time. I don't believe that at all. Secondly, you assume the player will have a scarlet letter as a bad teammate if he doesn't pray. I don't believe that to be true either. So I think you're placing things in your argument that generally don't exist. Hence, a straw man. Oh maybe you'll find some nutcase exception, that agrees with your straw man, but no one here is supporting that.

 

[Howie'81]

Although I agree with LionJim that this thread should probably die, having a zealot state that I'm not rational is comical.

In all of history, there have been a plethora of living organisms on this planet: plant, bacteria, fungi, viral, mammal, reptile. And, there are millions of species alive today. Not one species even cares if there is a God, other than man.

It is mans ARROGANCE that he is somewhat "above" the other species - aka, "special". When in fact, plants provide the air and bacteria in our gut (E. coli) keep us alive. Man is anything but special. And, if there were a God, he would destroy us before we destroy all of his creation. That is how aweful the human race is.

All species are here together. I will accept the OVERWHELMING lack of evidence in all of history that there isn't a deity. No species, other than man, has ever prayed to a deity. They simply live their life.

God (whichever he is to you) only exists in your head. He always has. Since you can not accept that or even consider the possibility simply means that you have a mental illness. Mild? Probably. But a mental illness, nonetheless.

The future has no place for this anymore. Not if humanity is to survive.

Then go jump off the Ben Franklin Bridge and we'll have one less "awful" human to worry about. Or go find yourself a nice swamp to live with the algae and amoebas you equate yourself to.

 

[Judge Smails]

Why do you simply make things up? Have you never been around people of different faiths than yourself? It's not hard to be respectful if you actually give it a try. I could imagine those who are not Muslim not praying to a God they don't believe in much the same way those that have no faith wouldn't. Again it's a simple matter of respect to all religions and those that choose none. You can't project what you think may or may not happen based on your perception of an entire religion. It's the stupid thing the left and the right continue to do in this country. Play the extreme cards and simply toss out common sense.

What is the deal with making up these fake scenarios? What is it proving that we can make up extreme examples and guess on those outcomes? How about the Jewish coach who can't coach on Saturdays? Oh man, we haven't hit that one yet...let's give that one a shot.

Last week, Tamara Scott, an Iowa member of the Republican National Committee, gave a speech advocating for Christianity being taught in public schools. Scott said she was upset by the fact that non Christian prayers (Wiccan and Muslim) had been said at the Iowa State House.
Scott’s remarks were met with not shock nor disappointment, but with applause and approval.

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...public-schools/#sthash.1BXbNPZR.Yhw9n5YK.dpuf


It was quite something, all of those beautiful, colorful prayer rugs strewn about the floor in the east transept of the National Cathedral recently. It was stunning to see the several hundred or so Muslims who attended, shoeless, on their knees, bent over, bowing at the Friday call to prayer. It all just seemed so right, this welcoming from what is, after all, our National Cathedral. People praying for peace. What could be better than that?

Ah, but the pushback. When the story first broke in the Washington Post that the first Muslim service would be held at the Cathedral, the crazies came out in full force. Calls, letters, emails, threats. How dare the Cathedral open its doors to these people?

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/...er-muslim-prayers-at-a-christian-church/35363


Outside of a Phoenix mosque on Friday to interrupt prayer time, protesters gathered wearing “**** Islam” t-shirts gathered. The group’s organizer urged protesters to carry guns, and many of them did. Some waved flags while demeaning women of the Muslim faith. On one side, were the flag-waving, self-deemed patriots, yelling out hateful messages to those of a different faith. On the other side of the street, stood protesters with signs reading, “Love One Another.” On one side, were the flag-waving, self-deemed patriots, yelling out hateful messages to those of a different faith. On the other side of the street, stood protesters with signs reading, “Love One Another.”

http://freakoutnation.com/2015/05/i...he-us-with-assault-rifles-during-prayer-time/

Conservative Christians are freaking out over the decision by Duke University to allow a Muslim student group to broadcast a weekly call to prayer from a chapel bell tower. The three-minute chant will be “moderately amplified” by a speaker system in the Duke Chapel’s tower, a university landmark. “It’s political correctness run amok,” said Pastor Robert Jeffress on Fox & Friends.

Jeffress agreed with the Rev. Franklin Graham, who suggested that donors withhold their support from Duke until the university reverses its decision on the call to prayer.

Duke University reversed its decision, citing criticism and safety concerns.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/01/con...ver-muslim-call-to-prayer-at-duke-university/


Christian protesters disrupt ‘Muslim Day’ with Lord’s Prayer in Oklahoma capital

A woman shouted the Lord’s Prayer, interrupting the Islamic call to prayer Friday– “Muslim Day” at the Oklahoma State Capitol.


Oklahoma Watch published a video of the event, which included over 100 participants and nearly 50 protesters, who held signs reading “Islam = Death” and “Every real Muslim is a jihadist.” The event was sponsored by the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/02...ayer-in-oklahoma-capital-183146#ixzz3dLVTI3QG

 

[LaJolla Lion]

are you trying to claim that Christian coaches are giving pure non-denominational prayers only for their kids to not be injured and not praying to "Our Savior Jesus Christ" "The one and only God" "Christ our Lord" etc My wife goes ape shit everytime she goes to a meeting at UCF where the non-denominational prayer turns into a revival meeting and it happens all the time, I wish we lived in a society where most prayers are inclusive but they are not

No cronk, in fact I challenge to to quote me where I made such a claim. Why are you making things up? It doesn't bode well for people when they simply make things up to try and make a point.

 

[cronk]

No cronk, in fact I challenge to to quote me where I made such a claim. Why are you making things up? It doesn't bode well for people when they simply make things up to try and make a point.

then I have no idea what the point of your post was in replying to the Judge

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Last week, Tamara Scott, an Iowa member of the Republican National Committee, gave a speech advocating for Christianity being taught in public schools. Scott said she was upset by the fact that non Christian prayers (Wiccan and Muslim) had been said at the Iowa State House.
Scott’s remarks were met with not shock nor disappointment, but with applause and approval.

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...public-schools/#sthash.1BXbNPZR.Yhw9n5YK.dpuf


It was quite something, all of those beautiful, colorful prayer rugs strewn about the floor in the east transept of the National Cathedral recently. It was stunning to see the several hundred or so Muslims who attended, shoeless, on their knees, bent over, bowing at the Friday call to prayer. It all just seemed so right, this welcoming from what is, after all, our National Cathedral. People praying for peace. What could be better than that?

Ah, but the pushback. When the story first broke in the Washington Post that the first Muslim service would be held at the Cathedral, the crazies came out in full force. Calls, letters, emails, threats. How dare the Cathedral open its doors to these people?

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/...er-muslim-prayers-at-a-christian-church/35363


Outside of a Phoenix mosque on Friday to interrupt prayer time, protesters gathered wearing “**** Islam” t-shirts gathered. The group’s organizer urged protesters to carry guns, and many of them did. Some waved flags while demeaning women of the Muslim faith. On one side, were the flag-waving, self-deemed patriots, yelling out hateful messages to those of a different faith. On the other side of the street, stood protesters with signs reading, “Love One Another.” On one side, were the flag-waving, self-deemed patriots, yelling out hateful messages to those of a different faith. On the other side of the street, stood protesters with signs reading, “Love One Another.”

http://freakoutnation.com/2015/05/i...he-us-with-assault-rifles-during-prayer-time/

Conservative Christians are freaking out over the decision by Duke University to allow a Muslim student group to broadcast a weekly call to prayer from a chapel bell tower. The three-minute chant will be “moderately amplified” by a speaker system in the Duke Chapel’s tower, a university landmark. “It’s political correctness run amok,” said Pastor Robert Jeffress on Fox & Friends.

Jeffress agreed with the Rev. Franklin Graham, who suggested that donors withhold their support from Duke until the university reverses its decision on the call to prayer.

Duke University reversed its decision, citing criticism and safety concerns.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/01/con...ver-muslim-call-to-prayer-at-duke-university/


Christian protesters disrupt ‘Muslim Day’ with Lord’s Prayer in Oklahoma capital

A woman shouted the Lord’s Prayer, interrupting the Islamic call to prayer Friday– “Muslim Day” at the Oklahoma State Capitol.


Oklahoma Watch published a video of the event, which included over 100 participants and nearly 50 protesters, who held signs reading “Islam = Death” and “Every real Muslim is a jihadist.” The event was sponsored by the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/02...ayer-in-oklahoma-capital-183146#ixzz3dLVTI3QG

Which coach was in there?

 

[Op2]

Because you assume incorrectly I believe, that the player is forced to pray in that time. I don't believe that at all. Secondly, you assume the player will have a scarlet letter as a bad teammate if he doesn't pray. I don't believe that to be true either. So I think you're placing things in your argument that generally don't exist. Hence, a straw man. Oh maybe you'll find some nutcase exception, that agrees with your straw man, but no one here is supporting that.

I don't thing he would be forced to pray but I think he'd be considered a bad teammate by the prayers and definitely an uncooperative player by the coach. What if some non-prayers talked or played music during the prayers? That definitely would be considered bad. And yet why should they have to go out of their way to not mess up the pray-ers prayers?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

then I have no idea what the point of your post was in replying to the Judge

He made up a scenario that didn't exist and then projected his thoughts on what the outcome would be. Since the make pretend coach doesn't exist, we have no idea on how he approached this make pretend team. We have no idea on how the make pretend team then responded to this along with the make pretend parents. I guess we should just speculate on all religions and assume all people are the same from every single religion. Every coach will act the same and everything has to be black and white.

Long story short is people of religion and people who choose not to practice it could show a little bit of common sense and respect, this probably is a non issue like it is in most locker rooms currently. I don't give a flying **ck if a coach does this if his team has no problem with it. Why should I care? I don't care if a coach chooses not to pray because he isn't a man of faith. As long as both coaches can respect others point of view as well as members of their team. Sorry I don't have a hard line in the sand here as this one is pretty simple to figure out if you're a decent human being. 6 page thread on some people saying I don't want to pray or I want to. Well nothing is preventing either from occurring currently and life is still going on.

 

[Judge Smails]

Why do you simply make things up? Have you never been around people of different faiths than yourself? It's not hard to be respectful if you actually give it a try. I could imagine those who are not Muslim not praying to a God they don't believe in much the same way those that have no faith wouldn't. Again it's a simple matter of respect to all religions and those that choose none. You can't project what you think may or may not happen based on your perception of an entire religion. It's the stupid thing the left and the right continue to do in this country. Play the extreme cards and simply toss out common sense.
What is the deal with making up these fake scenarios? What is it proving that we can make up extreme examples and guess on those outcomes? How about the Jewish coach who can't coach on Saturdays? Oh man, we haven't hit that one yet...let's give that one a shot.

I could do this all day.

Here's a nice one....


Freedom of religion is only for Christians: North Dakota House Republicans cancelled a Muslim prayer scheduled to be delivered earlier this week because Christians shouldn’t be “forced” to listen to someone who “worships another god.”
House Republicans were upset that a Muslim cleric was scheduled to appear on Ash Wednesday, a religious holiday observed by most Catholics and some Protestant denomination, and so they canceled the planned appearance of Dr. Nadim Koleilat, the board president of the Bismarck Muslim Community Center, who was scheduled to give the opening prayer.
A particularly vocal and obnoxious opponent of the scheduled Muslim prayer was District 24 Rep. Dwight Kiefert. The Republican said:

I mean, you had representatives on the floor with ash on their foreheads commemorating the day. And so then you’re going to force them to listen to a prayer that they don’t agree with? It wasn’t very well thought out, I don’t think.

Watchdog.org North Dakota Bureau reports Kiefert said in a phone interview:

“It just wasn’t appropriate.”

Kiefert said Christians shouldn’t be “forced” to listen to someone who “worships another god” during “one of the holiest days of the year.”

“We’re for free speech and free religion,” Kiefert said. “We’re against forcing people to participate in something they disagree with.”

In other words, we’re for free speech and free religion, as long as it is Christian speech and Christian religion.

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...offering-opening-prayer/#sthash.Z0DCC6XL.dpuf

 

[sluggo72]

I don't thing he would be forced to pray but I think he'd be considered a bad teammate by the prayers and definitely an uncooperative player by the coach. What if some non-prayers talked or played music during the prayers? That definitely would be considered bad. And yet why should they have to go out of their way to not mess up the pray-ers prayers?

I agree with you here, when players don't conform to the norm, especially in football, they do get a scarlet letter. If the players feel the need to worship before a game, just have a chapel service for them 3 hrs before kickoff or something. And if the coaches feel they need to as well, have a separate one for them as well.

 

[Judge Smails]

Which coach was in there?

Hey dummy...you said "You can't project what you think may or may not happen based on your perception of an entire religion."

I can give you millions of examples of exactly what I described....Christians freaking out when they are forced to listen to a muslim prayer....which is exactly the situation that I described.

I understand you want to win the argument, but try to use some semblance of logic and consistency in your response.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I could do this all day.
f

Great, now find one that actually talks about the scenario you posed that was made up? Where is this Muslim coach you mentioned forcing everyone to how and pray to Allah? Anyone and make up scenarios and then change it to other topics, but this was about football and a pre game rituals. If you want to go OT and play with the lunatics on the test board, I'll link it for you. I get that you can't find that example and want to change angles, but don't try and think you made some headway.

We are talking about football in America, college football in particular. Plenty of examples around the world of intolerance when it comes to religion and in sports. Thankfully in this country most playing the game seem to be respectful of various religions and those that choose not to practice it. I'm not offended if a prayer occurs or if it doesn't. Apparently you are which is fine as we need the PC crowd to keep telling the world what to do and not to do.

 

[bmw199]

I could do this all day.

Judge normally I really like your posts but I could do this all day:
Anecdotal fallacy - using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.

 

[Judge Smails]

Great, now find one that actually talks about the scenario you posed that was made up? Where is this Muslim coach you mentioned forcing everyone to how and pray to Allah? Anyone and make up scenarios and then change it to other topics, but this was about football and a pre game rituals. If you want to go OT and play with the lunatics on the test board, I'll link it for you. I get that you can't find that example and want to change angles, but don't try and think you made some headway.

I never claimed it had happened. I was saying if Christians would be put in the same situation as Atheists, being forced to listen to a pregame prayer of a religion they did not believe in, in no way shape or form would they follow the same advice they are giving Atheists. And while I am not going to try and find via google that exact scenario, the way Christians have acted in other scenarios where Muslims prayed in public doesn't show a great deal of restraint on Christian's part.

I understand you are hopelessly biased and would never let yourself grasp this pretty basic premise.

 

[cronk]

Judge normally I really like your posts but I could do this all day:
Anecdotal fallacy - using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.

so we have to wait before a Muslim coach does it to think it will happen? I guess it is a good thing that we are giving credit to Muslims and thinking they wouldn't do the same thing with Allah as most Christian coaches in their praise of Jesus Christ as the only Lord and Savior

 

[sluggo72]

Great, now find one that actually talks about the scenario you posed that was made up? Where is this Muslim coach you mentioned forcing everyone to how and pray to Allah? Anyone and make up scenarios and then change it to other topics, but this was about football and a pre game rituals. If you want to go OT and play with the lunatics on the test board, I'll link it for you. I get that you can't find that example and want to change angles, but don't try and think you made some headway.

I'll give you one that aint made up. The fundamental Christian coach, goes up to the opposing teams Jewish player after the game, and says, 'Son, is Jesus Christ your Savior? and If he's not, you still have time, but you better except Jesus Christ as your Savior before it's too late. You'll suffer eternal damnation." When the Christian coach is confronted, he says' it is our job and obligation to witness Christ after every game.'

No place for that in the game. I reason, if there is no place for that in the game, where do you draw the line?? I say never bring it up and you don't have to worry about any line.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Wel

I'll give you one that aint made up. The fundamental Christian coach, goes up to the opposing teams Jewish player after the game, and says, 'Son, is Jesus Christ your Savior? and If he's not, you still have time, but you better except Jesus Christ as your Savior before it's too late. You'll suffer eternal damnation." When the Christian coach is confronted, he says' it is our job and obligation to witness Christ after every game.'

No place for that in the game. I reason, if there is no place for that in the game, where do you draw the line?? I say never bring it up and you don't have to worry about any line.

That was in college? Was that Dabo....or was it Bobby before he left?

Now once again you have moved the line from a pre game or post game prayer to someone forcing something on to a player which is crazy. Hell, it wasn't even his own player. He's lucky the other player or coach didn't punch him in his face to be honest. Why not try to stick to the actual topic you posted?

Here is one with an actual link. If it wasn't forced and the players did this on their own, is it right to fire him? I don't know for sure as I'm sure there are two sides to every story.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/football-coach-says-he-was-fired-allowing-players-pray

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I never claimed it had happened. I was saying if Christians would be put in the same situation as Atheists, being forced to listen to a pregame prayer of a religion they did not believe in, in no way shape or form would they follow the same advice they are giving Atheists. And while I am not going to try and find via google that exact scenario, the way Christians have acted in other scenarios where Muslims prayed in public doesn't show a great deal of restraint on Christian's part.

I understand you are hopelessly biased and would never let yourself grasp this pretty basic premise.

Someone is biased in this case judge,,,that is for sure. Play that victim card here and now.

 

[Judge Smails]

Someone is biased in this case judge,,,that is for sure. Play that victim card here and now.

At least you've abandoned your argument. Good move.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

At least you've abandoned your argument. Good move.

LOL, you abandoned it right the word go when you made up the fantasy scenario. Then you ran to other topics as fast as you could.

 

[sluggo72]

Wel


That was in college? Was that Dabo....or was it Bobby before he left?

Now once again you have moved the line from a pre game or post game prayer to someone forcing something on to a player which is crazy. Hell, it wasn't even his own player. He's lucky the other player or coach didn't punch him in his face to be honest. Why not try to stick to the actual topic you posted?

Here is one with an actual link. If it wasn't forced and the players did this on their own, is it right to fire him? I don't know for sure as I'm sure there are two sides to every story.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/football-coach-says-he-was-fired-allowing-players-pray

I think my original statement I wasn't for forcing religion down someone's throat. Before the game, after the game, what's the difference? My team? your team? what's the difference? HS College Pros what's the difference ?? Read my last line... it's a rabbit hole why go down it?? Why not just play the game?? Why even inject this??

FWIW the coach you referenced wasnt fired for having his players pray, he was fired for not following an order from his superiors. If he didn't agree with his orders, he should have resigned.

Weiss says that school officials gave him an ultimatum to either tell players to stop praying or lose his position with the team. He refused and his job was terminated

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think my original statement I wasn't for forcing religion down someone's throat. Before the game, after the game, what's the difference? My team? your team? what's the difference? HS College Pros what's the difference ?? Read my last line... it's a rabbit hole why go down it?? Why not just play the game?? Why even inject this??

FWIW the coach you referenced wasnt fired for having his players pray, he was fired for not following an order from his superiors. If he didn't agree with his orders, he should have resigned.

Weiss says that school officials gave him an ultimatum to either tell players to stop praying or lose his position with the team. He refused and his job was terminated

The problem is nobody is forcing religion down someone's throat. Coaches in 1a football and most places are not deciding their starting positions based on a prayer. As holy as some of these men may be, they also get paid 3-5 million dollars to win football games. Some like the prayer and I'll bet some coaches don't care for it which is totally fine. I'm not even sure what the % breakdown would be there as it's not a big deal to me.

It's a matter of choice and that is the beauty of this country. You or I may not understand the why they do it. Asking for players safety or wishing for luck is not a crime. Maybe some recruits should start asking that question on recruiting trips? Some recruits and families would be all for the none prayer. Some may choose to go to a school where the coach is rooted in some type of religion. Maybe those so opposed to this can write the AD's and tell them how offended they are that some kids are praying before the games with a HC.

I would agree if there comes a time a coach makes a prayer for a religion mandatory that you may have a point. That isn't the case for the most part and I would disagree if any coach forcefully pushed any religion towards a player. Maybe at a religious school they could get away with it, but players there did sign up to play there. So basically you're objecting to something that really is not impacting you currently or most locker rooms currently. If you run a program you have every right not to pray and some players may do it on the side. Would you scold those players for practicing their religion regardless of faith if they did this in a respectful manner? Maybe you would, but I think most rational coaches would be fine with it. It seems to me you don't want anyone to pray around a game because you may not want to. Isn't that kind of forcing your beliefs down someones throat?

 

[sluggo72]

as I stated in my original post, it should be up to the player. Does this happen at every school in the country? of course not. But it does happen at many.