Well that is disappointing considering the patterns were in the dragonglass cave. I'm not a fan of having to find out stuff from the writers rather than from their product. Then again, a lot of stuff probably winds up on the cutting room floor.
Yeah, but I wonder if he really meant it was that fine tuned. Or maybe that was Bran's way of taunting him to get him there faster. Just my guesses of course.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
This x 1000. I finally finished after getting a late start and around 45 minutes in (and my second Old Fashioned) I was thinking they're just going to kill everyone and that is that. That first half was like watching Saving Private Ryan with every soldier a character you know and love. So many great scenes - will need to view again for sure. I will say as an OG Arya fan, I LOVED that she was the Night King's killer. F'n perfect. The rest of my top five is:
2. Drogon
3. Jorah
4. Melisandre
5. Jon Snow
Honestly, I don't know how you top that. On one hand I love that the whole Night King stuff is over, and we're back to more traditional war, but on the other I hate that Cersei played the right cards and has great position to win. Can't wait to see what happens though - AMAZING.
That's it for the Mormonts. That little girl sure went out in a blaze of glory taking out the giant.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Man, that was rough. But also perfect in a lot of ways. I love that the writers find a way to make most deaths important and worthy of the character - that was one of them for sure. RIP Lady Mormont.
I could not understand why they chose to film this episode in such darkness.
But then I thought maybe they were trying to explain how the big ten refs watch a football game.
But then I thought maybe they were trying to explain how the big ten refs watch a football game.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
The darkness and weather manipulation (snow, fog, ice) was frustrating to watch but added a layer to the battle not previously considered. I think as massive an episode as this was, the tone was really important. Mainly, the army of the dead isn't f*cking around.
Maybe I’m a simpleton, but the lighting of the Dothraki swords after Melisandre’s spell was a top 10 TV moment for me.
Frankly, I would’ve liked Arya and Bran to agree she has to kill him and steal his face to kill the Night King. I was actually expecting Bran to jump up and be her and kill him until the last minute. I think I would’ve preferred that as Bran would’ve had to sacrifice himself, it would mark a moment where man has to stop relying on supernatural to record its history, etc, but I’ll take what happened.
I’m someone who was very hard on last season and criticized it a lot, but this was as good as anything I’ve ever seen on TV, and I can’t fathom how it’s ever better.
Frankly, I would’ve liked Arya and Bran to agree she has to kill him and steal his face to kill the Night King. I was actually expecting Bran to jump up and be her and kill him until the last minute. I think I would’ve preferred that as Bran would’ve had to sacrifice himself, it would mark a moment where man has to stop relying on supernatural to record its history, etc, but I’ll take what happened.
I’m someone who was very hard on last season and criticized it a lot, but this was as good as anything I’ve ever seen on TV, and I can’t fathom how it’s ever better.
Well, we haven't heard from Dorne in a while. And there still some Iron Islanders left.
Did two dragons survive, or just the one?
I expect some forgotten characters to reappear. Edmure Tully uniting the Riverlands and a return of the Second Sons.
Man, that episode was tense and the darkness and quiet made it even more eerie. It needed to be chaotic because how else would it be if fighting an army of dead ice soldiers at night? When Arya went into action against the Night King, was being choked, I thought for sure she was a goner and Bran would be the one to end the Night King, but oh no! She used a Faceless Man move, dropped the blade to her free hand and ended that icy bastard and his minions. I actually threw my arms up in victory as if our Lions had won the MNC!
I don’t know how it will all end but I think Cersei is in for an ass kicking as anger will drive Dany to burn down all at King’s Landing. I think Jamie or maybe even Tyrion will end Cersei.
I don’t know how it will all end but I think Cersei is in for an ass kicking as anger will drive Dany to burn down all at King’s Landing. I think Jamie or maybe even Tyrion will end Cersei.
Last edited:
Thoughts:
1. WOW. Overall that was just great television. Those picking it apart would be the same ones who bitch about paying the taxes on having the winning $756 million Powerball ticket.
2. Loved the throwback scenes with Arya & Melisendre. This show has been a 7-year journey and it's very awesome that a conversation those 2 had way back in season 3 played a big part in Arya realizing she had to go kill the Night King ("blue eyes")
3. What the F*%k was Jon Snow doing in that episode??? Thinking back, he was more or less useless. Most of the battle he was flying around aimlessly & lost on his dragon. Did he ever even got a fire shot on the dead with his dragon?? Dany was hitting the dead with fire from her dragon ... did Jon even have his dragon hit the dead with fire once??? Then he crashes his dragon... Then he gets trapped & surrounded by a zillion dead.... then he basically just runs around Winterfell randomly killing some dead. .... At the end it almost seemed like he was resigned to dieing and figured to try and kill the NKs dragon in a "what the f*&k" moment.... In the battle that he was spearheading for about 4 seasons, Jon Snow really had a disappointing night.
4. I guess it's good not knowing who actually survived. There are only a few confirmed dead: Little Lady Mormont, the other Night's Watch Dude, the guy who lights his sword on fire, and Theon. But we are left hanging on Brienne, Jaimie Lannister, Sam, Greyworm.... the last time we saw many of them they were simply being overwhelmed by the dead.... did they somehow survive until Arya killed the NK.... or did they die...???? Great the way they left us hanging on those until next week.
5. Once again the battle plans of these people leaves a lot of head to be scratched.
a) Knowing there are about a gudzillion billion trillion dead is your first move really a smart move to simply send the Dothraki riding into them in the dark. Jon himself said that they can not win there are too many.... so let's send the Dothraki into them in the dark ... brilliant.
b) 1. When the "magnificent 7" went north of the wall to capture a wight AND 2. during the battle of Hardhome AND 3. As the western & eastern boundaries of The Wall... they know The Army of the Dead and the White Walkers are adverse to water. They can not cross water. So all this planning and building of moats.... but no use of water??? The moat of fire was nice but why not use water since we know they can not cross water. Heck, during Hardhome they would not even step foot in water.
c) No offense to Theon. But Bran called it when he replied to Jon during the battle planning that the NK was the key and he was going to draw out the NK..... OK.... Bran is going to draw out the NK.... and Theon is going to protect Bran..... OK.... but once Theon protects Bran and Bran does draw out the NK then what????? What was the plan after that???? Did they really think Theon could kill the NK????? Luckily Arya & Melisendre had a moment to talk in all that chaos for Arya to realize she needed to kill the NK. What if in all that chaos Melisendre and Arya did not have a chance to reminisce about an old conversation about brown, green and blue eyes?????
6. Like others have mentioned. Unless Dany can gather up some more houses/armies who the heck is left?? Is she going to march on Kings Landing with about 5 people and 2 dragons??? And after THAT battle .... after THAT battle .... how many people are going to be in the mood for another fight??? Heck, The Hound got battle fatigue and would probably be suffering from a case of medieval PTSD .... Imagine going up and telling The Hound "hey, great fight the other night, now buckle it back up because we are going to siege Kings Landing because Dany wants to sit on the Iron Throne". My guess is that if they kept true to the character they developed over the past 7 years, The Hound's response would be something like "F*&K off".
But again. GOT has to be the greatest TV show of all time. Over 7 years there are so many weekly episodes that actually felt like movies. Think about how many episodes felt like watching a movie instead of watching an episode of a TV series. Will be very very sad in 4 weeks when this journey is over.
1. WOW. Overall that was just great television. Those picking it apart would be the same ones who bitch about paying the taxes on having the winning $756 million Powerball ticket.
2. Loved the throwback scenes with Arya & Melisendre. This show has been a 7-year journey and it's very awesome that a conversation those 2 had way back in season 3 played a big part in Arya realizing she had to go kill the Night King ("blue eyes")
3. What the F*%k was Jon Snow doing in that episode??? Thinking back, he was more or less useless. Most of the battle he was flying around aimlessly & lost on his dragon. Did he ever even got a fire shot on the dead with his dragon?? Dany was hitting the dead with fire from her dragon ... did Jon even have his dragon hit the dead with fire once??? Then he crashes his dragon... Then he gets trapped & surrounded by a zillion dead.... then he basically just runs around Winterfell randomly killing some dead. .... At the end it almost seemed like he was resigned to dieing and figured to try and kill the NKs dragon in a "what the f*&k" moment.... In the battle that he was spearheading for about 4 seasons, Jon Snow really had a disappointing night.
4. I guess it's good not knowing who actually survived. There are only a few confirmed dead: Little Lady Mormont, the other Night's Watch Dude, the guy who lights his sword on fire, and Theon. But we are left hanging on Brienne, Jaimie Lannister, Sam, Greyworm.... the last time we saw many of them they were simply being overwhelmed by the dead.... did they somehow survive until Arya killed the NK.... or did they die...???? Great the way they left us hanging on those until next week.
5. Once again the battle plans of these people leaves a lot of head to be scratched.
a) Knowing there are about a gudzillion billion trillion dead is your first move really a smart move to simply send the Dothraki riding into them in the dark. Jon himself said that they can not win there are too many.... so let's send the Dothraki into them in the dark ... brilliant.
b) 1. When the "magnificent 7" went north of the wall to capture a wight AND 2. during the battle of Hardhome AND 3. As the western & eastern boundaries of The Wall... they know The Army of the Dead and the White Walkers are adverse to water. They can not cross water. So all this planning and building of moats.... but no use of water??? The moat of fire was nice but why not use water since we know they can not cross water. Heck, during Hardhome they would not even step foot in water.
c) No offense to Theon. But Bran called it when he replied to Jon during the battle planning that the NK was the key and he was going to draw out the NK..... OK.... Bran is going to draw out the NK.... and Theon is going to protect Bran..... OK.... but once Theon protects Bran and Bran does draw out the NK then what????? What was the plan after that???? Did they really think Theon could kill the NK????? Luckily Arya & Melisendre had a moment to talk in all that chaos for Arya to realize she needed to kill the NK. What if in all that chaos Melisendre and Arya did not have a chance to reminisce about an old conversation about brown, green and blue eyes?????
6. Like others have mentioned. Unless Dany can gather up some more houses/armies who the heck is left?? Is she going to march on Kings Landing with about 5 people and 2 dragons??? And after THAT battle .... after THAT battle .... how many people are going to be in the mood for another fight??? Heck, The Hound got battle fatigue and would probably be suffering from a case of medieval PTSD .... Imagine going up and telling The Hound "hey, great fight the other night, now buckle it back up because we are going to siege Kings Landing because Dany wants to sit on the Iron Throne". My guess is that if they kept true to the character they developed over the past 7 years, The Hound's response would be something like "F*&K off".
But again. GOT has to be the greatest TV show of all time. Over 7 years there are so many weekly episodes that actually felt like movies. Think about how many episodes felt like watching a movie instead of watching an episode of a TV series. Will be very very sad in 4 weeks when this journey is over.
Last edited:
1. Taxes suck.
3. Yes, Rhaegal burned fields of the dead too. It was Rhaegal and Jon that ultimately took down Viserion and stopped the Night King from burning down Winterfell from the sky. So, building on his dragon riding skills, and without him they all would have died.
4. Uhh what? It showed who lived at the end of the episode. All you mentioned lived. For those asking Rhaegal did too.
5c. They were supposed to use the dragons at that point. That was the point of lagging them back but after the Dothraki were wiped out Dany threw that plan out the window.
7. My guess is we are going to get a long time span between this battle and the next.
We don't know for certain if Rhaegal will survive. Drogon and Rhaegal were both seriously wounded and there is only one dragon flying in the next episode preview. Of course, that could just be misdirection.
If you look at next week's preview you see both dragons flying and very much alive.
Nope there’s two. I’ll find the scenes later unless someone else posts them
In the previews there was a lot of hee-hawing from Dany about Cersei and the next war. I don’t think anyone wants to go out and fight again other than her. I expect a lot of arguing, and Jon’s parentage to be revealed at large. I will be pissed if the show has Rhaegal fly off without Jon since dragon rider connections in Fire and Blood are for the life of the rider
Regarding not using water, unless it is a very large body of water, water will freeze and the dead walk across it.
If there's a long time before Jon/Dany meet Cersei, then Cersei needs to have a miscarriage. The witch told her that she'd have 3 kids, so something happens to this pregnancy.
Should be pretty simple for the North going forward. Use Bran's sight, find out where the Golden Company's encampment is located, as well as Euron's fleet. Send two dragons, burn the encampment at night while they're all in their tents. Have them immediately fly to Euron's fleet and burn it down. Use Bran's sight to learn Cersei's plans. Send dragons accordingly.
Of course, it can't be that simple but it should.
Of course, it can't be that simple but it should.
Or she's not really pregnant. Or she dies before she can give birth.
I don't think Bran is interested in the power struggles of man.
Then how about build 2 fire moats. An outer fire moat and an inner. Allow the Dead to come bursting up past the first moat (not on fire yet) so that they are between outer moat and inner moat. Keep dragons out of sight and away for safe keeping until the majority of dead are between the 2 moats. Then have Jon fly over and light up 1 moat and have Dany fly over and light up other moat. Catching the dead between the 2 fire moats. Then Dany & Jon simply fly over all the entrapped dead burning them while they are sitting ducks.
........... nope. Lets have Bran go out to the tree and Theon protect him.
I have a great idea for defeating Cersei. What they should do is have Jon go ride solo to Kings Landing and sell himself to Cersei that he has abandoned Dany and he wants to side with her. Have Jon infiltrate Cersei's inner circle and have her trust him .... then allow Jon to draw up the battle plans for Cersei. Based on past history. If Jon is drawing up Cersie's battle plans, then Dany & the remaining army from the North will win easy.
I agree. I believe Bran was invested into this battle because it was a battle for life/the living. He is the eyes or the history of the living. If he dies, then the living have no history and they are basically the dead..... But in a battle of living vs. living, I believe Bran steps back as the 3-eyed raven and does not interject himself.
Freeze frames at 20 and 21 seconds show Rhaegal. Freeze frame at 23 seconds shows Dany looking up at something, have to assume it's Jon on Rhaegal. Freeze frame at 22.5 seconds shows Jon and Davos and probably Sam the way Gilly is looking at them riding off out of Winterfell. Likely to help the Dragon Queen.
Also of note, freeze frame at 18 seconds to see a who's who of the survivors. GHOST MADE IT!
Also of note, freeze frame at 18 seconds to see a who's who of the survivors. GHOST MADE IT!
OK. I re-watched while on treadmill this morning. And there is a good chunk of action where Jon is just "MIA" and luckily Melisendre saves the day.
>>> Jon eventually gets his bearing by seeing the fire torches around the weir-tree. Jon lands his dragon at the weir-tree and makes eye contact with Bran & Theon.... Simultaneously everyone is retreating back into Winterfell and The Dead and over-whelming and advancing. ..... As they retreat back towards Winterfell the plan is to light the moat.... Davos grabs 2 torches and he is frantically waving the 2 torches to signal for either Dany or Jon to light the moat .... Davos desperately says "they can not see us"..... meanwhile people are fighting and dieing and the dead are advancing onto Winterfell ..... the show Dany and she is still caught in the storm bank... As far as we know, the last we saw of Jon, he is simply sitting on his dragon over at the weir-tree looking at Bran.......... Melisendre appears and she magically lights the moat just before a wight kills her...... As the moat is lit up, Dany sees the lit up moat thru the storm bank and she instantly heads over starts lighting up the dead.... And again, as far as we know Jon is still sitting on his dragon looking at Bran.... eventually Jon sees the NK come flying over on his dragon and Jon then takes off in pursuit of NK.
But from over head shots, the weir-tree is about 100 feet away from Winterfell. What the heck was Jon doing on his dragon all that time while Melisendre had to be lighting up the moat?
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
The battle strategy in this show has been one of it's most confusing and weakest parts. There is always some deus ex machina to sort of save the day (even going back to Tyrion's use of wildfire). Dany's strategy to conquer Westeros was awful. She should have taken King's Landing, then everything else. Instead, she divides her own army and nearly loses everything. Jon had a good strategy for BOTB, but he was way outnumbered. Last night's lighting of swords and stuff was great, but mostly dumb. Like you, I would have tried to pin the dead army somewhere and just light them up with fire. Instead, it's pure chaos and ultimately a retreat to defend Winterfell.
One question - once wights are killed, can they be resurrected again? Sure seemed like it.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I'll add I loved that Melisandre returned and sort of redeemed herself. She's been ahead of things for a while and though not evil, her belief in the Lord of Light has had some devastating and awful consequences. That said, she's pretty money when it counts (resurrecting John, birthing assassin ghost baby, lighting up the moat, and inspiring Arya to seal the deal). I don't know why she sort of offed herself at the end - it's weird. She was so desperate to bring the Lord of Light prophecy to fruition then sort of quits at the end (unless she didn't, thinking Jon is the LoL and all is well).
I'm pretty sure I agree with you. I will say though, he does care a little about his fellow man. He gave Theon the redemption he was seeking, which I certainly did not expect. I'm interested to see what if anything happens with him and Jaime Lannister. He left their conversation pretty open ended when Jaime asked what happens after.
One minor complaint with regard to last nights episode and maybe someone can correct me if I didn't see it properly. The Night Kind raised the dead while staring at John Snow. Arya stabs the Night King and he shatters, as should all his dead that he raised which we saw in previous episodes. Why all the bodies at the end? Or did I not see it correctly?
And a question I had from last night is "why does the NKs power to raise the dead seem to have a certain radius" ???
Last night and at Battle of Hardhome we saw that the NK can raise the dead simply by lifting both of his palms to the sky. At Hardhome and last night, when the NK raised his palms to sky, all of the dead got resurrected. Why wouldn't this apply to all dead? So for example, last night why was it just the dead around Winterfell and down in the crips?? Why wouldn't ALL dead EVERYWHERE get resurrected. So the dead down at Kings Landing get resurrected and attack Cersie??? Seems like the NK's powers have a little weakness in that it only applies within a certain radius??
I'll add I loved that Melisandre returned and sort of redeemed herself. She's been ahead of things for a while and though not evil, her belief in the Lord of Light has had some devastating and awful consequences. That said, she's pretty money when it counts (resurrecting John, birthing assassin ghost baby, lighting up the moat, and inspiring Arya to seal the deal). I don't know why she sort of offed herself at the end - it's weird. She was so desperate to bring the Lord of Light prophecy to fruition then sort of quits at the end (unless she didn't, thinking Jon is the LoL and all is well).
Totally agree. I loved Melisendre the entire history of the show.
My impression of her killing herself last night was that the battle vs. The Dead was over. Her entire existence to find The Lord of Light was that The Lord Of Light was the one who could defeat the NK and kill off the Army of the Dead and thus save man-kind. The end game for her was that man-kind defeated the NK/Dead ... not specifically The Lord Of Light. The Lord Of Light was the most logical one to defeat the NK, so she was searching for him. But the ultimate end game for her was that the NK was defeated and the living existed. Being that Arya did it, instead of The Lord Of Light really made no difference to her. So since her ultimate goal was completed, she could finally die herself.
I agree- it was a little dark. It was hard to see who was fighting who at some points.
There were a few illogical things to me, like when John Snow was walking up to the Night King and he brought all those fighters back to life- no way he should survive that. They should obviously have hit them Dead from the air first, but sent the Dothraki's in. And after all that- it seemed a little too easy to kill the Night King and end it. Where did Arya come flying in from?
But all in all great TV. Tense.
That was my point about Jon Snow and not lighting the moat.
Either episode 1 or 2 they showed an over-head view of Winterfell. The weir-tree sits maybe 100 feet to the side of Winterfell. It's literally just next to the wall around Winterfell. Once Arya realized that she needed to kill "blue eyes" IE the Night King, it would be logically easy for her to make it the 50-100 feet over to the weir-tree to kill the NK because she knew the plan was for him to go to Bran. So she was just going there assuming he would be lured to Bran. That made sense.
But just like the weir-tree was only 50-100 feet away from Arya, it was also very close to the moat for Jon to light up. Jon is sitting on his dragon next to Bran/weir-tree awaiting the arrival of the NK, while everyone is screaming to light up the moat. Jon literally could have had Rhaegal walk about 20 feet to the side and light up the moat.
