Thats how I felt. Plus it seemed like it was too hard to even watch. Seemed too dark and way too much movement on the camera. Had a hard time even following who was who during most of it.
Thats how I felt. Plus it seemed like it was too hard to even watch. Seemed too dark and way too much movement on the camera. Had a hard time even following who was who during most of it.
Lots of great points.
A couple things I would say-
1) I think I saw Jaemie and Brienne in the middle of a fight and left standing when the "dead" were finally dead. They were like "what just happened". Sam looked like he was getting overwhelmed when John was running around doing who knows what, but I bet he survives. No was Sam should have survived that. Only the truly strong fighters should have.
2) I was a little surprised that the hound pussed out for awhile. But he pulled it together.
2) I agree with the water thing. In fact, I'll take it a step further. If they hadn't given the dead a dragon in the first place, how would they ever have gotten over that wall? They couldn't go around it.
3) Seems like the plan with Bran should have been to have archers or something all over the place to try and pick off the NK with a Dragon Glass Arrow, if that's all it took.
4) I think the fact that Theone's Sis sailed off to get some troops will play a big part in the end.
Here is my best guess on those key to the story who died and those who survived the battle. please correct me if I am wrong or add if I missed anyone:
Dead:
Night King
Night King Dragon
Jorah Mormont
Lady Mormont
Theon Greyjoy and most of the Ironborn who were there at the battle site
The Darthrachy
The red witch, Melisandre
Night's watch commander Edmond
Beric
Many of the Unsullied
Survived
Daenerys
Jon Snow
2 dragons
Bran
Ayra
The Hound
Sansa
Tierion
Jaime
Samwell Tarly
Lord Davos
Lord Varys
Brienne of Tarth
Missandei
Grey Worm
Tormund
Gilly & baby Sam
Podrick
Uncertain
Gentry ?
Alys Karstark ?
Some Unsullied
Dead:
Night King
Night King Dragon
Jorah Mormont
Lady Mormont
Theon Greyjoy and most of the Ironborn who were there at the battle site
The Darthrachy
The red witch, Melisandre
Night's watch commander Edmond
Beric
Many of the Unsullied
Survived
Daenerys
Jon Snow
2 dragons
Bran
Ayra
The Hound
Sansa
Tierion
Jaime
Samwell Tarly
Lord Davos
Lord Varys
Brienne of Tarth
Missandei
Grey Worm
Tormund
Gilly & baby Sam
Podrick
Uncertain
Gentry ?
Alys Karstark ?
Some Unsullied
I thought it was a great episode. No real depressing deaths like the red wedding.
Why did they send the Dothraki when they did? They had no idea what they were riding into. Seemed like a bad idea. At least get the dragons to light some things up so they could see where they were going.
I don't think the Night King is impervious to dragon fire because he is Targaryen. As I understand it, he predates the Targaryen's by thousands of years. I think it is just part of his magic that he can surround himself with a layer of cold that the dragon fire cannot penetrate.
Where did Arya jump from when she jumped on the Night King? Was she hiding in the tree?
Now they have about 100k dead bodies to deal with. I wonder if they will even address that.
Why did they send the Dothraki when they did? They had no idea what they were riding into. Seemed like a bad idea. At least get the dragons to light some things up so they could see where they were going.
I don't think the Night King is impervious to dragon fire because he is Targaryen. As I understand it, he predates the Targaryen's by thousands of years. I think it is just part of his magic that he can surround himself with a layer of cold that the dragon fire cannot penetrate.
Where did Arya jump from when she jumped on the Night King? Was she hiding in the tree?
Now they have about 100k dead bodies to deal with. I wonder if they will even address that.
It sure was a dark episode. I put it on the projector, lightened it up, and still had a hard time picking out details. Did the wildling who likes Sir Lady Brienne of Tarth survive?
So the dead starks all rose like I assumed. I still believe they will find something in lyanna's crypt to prove jon is her kid
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Pretty sure he survived. Only Beric, Jorah, Melisandre and The Night’s Watch guy bit it as far as I could tell. The rest will be needed in the next war.
Also, loved that Drogon nearly bit Viseron in half - his neck was gushing fire before he died.
Yes. Pretty much anybody who they didnt spend a clear scene on showing that they died survived
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I'll add I loved that Melisandre returned and sort of redeemed herself. She's been ahead of things for a while and though not evil, her belief in the Lord of Light has had some devastating and awful consequences. That said, she's pretty money when it counts (resurrecting John, birthing assassin ghost baby, lighting up the moat, and inspiring Arya to seal the deal). I don't know why she sort of offed herself at the end - it's weird. She was so desperate to bring the Lord of Light prophecy to fruition then sort of quits at the end (unless she didn't, thinking Jon is the LoL and all is well).
I will mourn the loss of Melisandre's boobs. Perhaps the greatest loss of the entire series.
The dead Starks rose? I guess, in the sense that everybody buried down there was a Stark. But there didn't seem to be any important ones that were brought to our attention.
The Hound wants the Mountain. He will definitely be traveling to Kings Landing.
Last edited:
I could of sworn at one point I saw Gilly being pulled into the dark by the Dead down in the crypts. It was dark though (so I could be wrong without re-watching), and could have been at the point where the Dead all "died".
I just watched it again this morning. Their may be some deaths that we don’t know about until next week.
No worthless talking. I thought Theon was going to stab him but then he died which set up Arya for it.
Music was awesome. Instead of talking different appropriate music for each scene.
They set this up well. So many moving parts.
Dathracky going in without support or waiting for the dead was a surprise but then again couldn’t send the dragons because they didn’t know where the night king was.
Night king could be a targarian maybe that is why he stood there. Did she get it? Hmmm.
I was still anxious as last night watching this am. I think it was very well done. Next week will be slow due to picking up the pieces but will build again to the end .
No worthless talking. I thought Theon was going to stab him but then he died which set up Arya for it.
Music was awesome. Instead of talking different appropriate music for each scene.
They set this up well. So many moving parts.
Dathracky going in without support or waiting for the dead was a surprise but then again couldn’t send the dragons because they didn’t know where the night king was.
Night king could be a targarian maybe that is why he stood there. Did she get it? Hmmm.
I was still anxious as last night watching this am. I think it was very well done. Next week will be slow due to picking up the pieces but will build again to the end .
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Last edited by a moderator:
I saw that too and I thought it was her being pulled by a Dead. But it might have coincided exactly when Arya killed the NK???
Are we sure Jorah Mormont died? We saw him stabbed about 50xs, but wasn't he still alive when they carried him inside?
I agree with Sam surviving that battle. Bodies flying all over the place and he was either running away or just trying to protect himself. Seems almost impossible not to get killed... or at least seriously wounded. Kind of like the odds of running thru a rain storm and having all the rain drops miss you.
Moving forward, I guess there can not be any decision for the people of the North who their true Queen or Ruler is. On one hand you had Dany in the middle of the battle and putting her life at risk on the front lines. On the other hand you had Sansa down in the crips. I'm guessing the whole "catty" thing going on between Sansa vs. Dany is over???
Speaking of "missing Melisendre's boobs". I sure hope we do not see the end of Sansa's black leather body army outfit. Sansa was looking pretty freaking hot the last couple weeks sporting that black leather body army. Kind of like a Kate Beckensail look in Underworld.
Wites cannot be resurrected once killed. The resurrected at the end were Jon and Dani's dead. A close look reveals Dothraki and Unsullied among the newly raised.
What kind of medieval castle defense plan does not include oil? They had it for the trenches. Why not the walls?
I think she just knew that either outcome she was going to die. IF the NK/Dead won then she would be killed by them...... If the Living won, then she knew her lifelong mission of saving the Living was over and she could finally go in peace. I think with her it was just a realization of finality with either outcome.
I think some of the Dothraki survived as you see a few of them come back with Jorah after the initial attack.
I was disappointed to see that the Dothraki, the most powerful warriors in the whole series, so easily and uselessly snuffed out at the beginning of the episode. It was so awesome when they lit the swords on fire. It looked as though the Dothraki were about to kick some butt.
Ultimately, the lit swords were used to show (from the point of view of those still waiting to join the fight) that the Dothraki were conquered quickly and without much of a fight. When the Dothraki were conquered so easily, you could feel the terror of the soldiers who remained waiting in silence and darkness for the dead to come. While the strategy was stupid, as pointed out in earlier posts, I think the writers were more focused on making the television audience feel the fear of the remaining soldiers than they were on war strategy. Watching the White Walkers' and Wights' easy conquering of the Dathraki from afar created an awesome affect in a great episode.
It is a television show, you are taking the military tactics a little too seriously. Bottom line, when your opponent can raise everything that ever lived and died, eventually you get overwhelmed. The Night King had to be killed, it was, on to the next battle.
If they had been killed with obsidian or valyrian steeli don't think they could be raised again.
So much for the Night King going to King's landing first. Ghost lives another day. Both good guys and bad guys are equally inept when it comes to battle strategy, but it was 80 minutes of glorious emotional hell, so who cares.
Pros:
1. What a time to be alive and what a country to be living in. There is a company who spent a ridiculous amount of money and countless amounts of time to entertain me for 80 minutes on a random Sunday night. And next Sunday night, they'll do it all over again. God bless America.
2. The Dothraki charge and the lights going out. Unreal.
3. Good guys win. Rare outcome on this show.
4. I'll say it: most of the characters everyone knows and cares about survived, and that's okay. After so many years with some of these characters, I am fine with this becoming typical plot armor glory.
Cons:
1. Cersei should not be the final boss. IMO, the whole show was supposed to point out that playing the game of thrones was meaningless when faced with the annihilation of the human race. So Cersei decides to stay home and drink cocktails on Euron's ship with her bought army just standing around, and gets rewarded for her shortsightedness. To me, that should have been punished. And now that the built up bad guy is gone, we have nothing else to do but play the game of thrones again?
2. Further along these lines, this battle was so epic, but now what for the next one?
Cersei has some "tricky scheme" to take out the two dragons and everyone else that the infinite amount of dead warriors couldn't pull off? Please.
Bran suddenly can't help with this fight because his visions can only be used for the NK levels of the game? Come on.
Our heroes go from beating the legendary, apocalyptic physical leader of the dead and his mindless hoard of unflinching killing machines to fighting Euron Greyjoy/Jack Sparrow? Right......
3. What the heck was bran doing when he zoned out for 95% of the battle? Send a raven to peck the NK's eyes or warg into a wolf or something. And when he finally comes back, hey Theon, could you take one for the team so Arya can sneak up and end this a few moments after you bite it? Thanks my man.
Pros:
1. What a time to be alive and what a country to be living in. There is a company who spent a ridiculous amount of money and countless amounts of time to entertain me for 80 minutes on a random Sunday night. And next Sunday night, they'll do it all over again. God bless America.
2. The Dothraki charge and the lights going out. Unreal.
3. Good guys win. Rare outcome on this show.
4. I'll say it: most of the characters everyone knows and cares about survived, and that's okay. After so many years with some of these characters, I am fine with this becoming typical plot armor glory.
Cons:
1. Cersei should not be the final boss. IMO, the whole show was supposed to point out that playing the game of thrones was meaningless when faced with the annihilation of the human race. So Cersei decides to stay home and drink cocktails on Euron's ship with her bought army just standing around, and gets rewarded for her shortsightedness. To me, that should have been punished. And now that the built up bad guy is gone, we have nothing else to do but play the game of thrones again?
2. Further along these lines, this battle was so epic, but now what for the next one?
Cersei has some "tricky scheme" to take out the two dragons and everyone else that the infinite amount of dead warriors couldn't pull off? Please.
Bran suddenly can't help with this fight because his visions can only be used for the NK levels of the game? Come on.
Our heroes go from beating the legendary, apocalyptic physical leader of the dead and his mindless hoard of unflinching killing machines to fighting Euron Greyjoy/Jack Sparrow? Right......
3. What the heck was bran doing when he zoned out for 95% of the battle? Send a raven to peck the NK's eyes or warg into a wolf or something. And when he finally comes back, hey Theon, could you take one for the team so Arya can sneak up and end this a few moments after you bite it? Thanks my man.
But it is a show that uses military tactics. Many episodes have depicted a war table for war & military strategy sessions. They show all of the leaders top brass and top advisers standing around a map or battlefield table discussing strategy. For battle of Winterfell there were at least 10 people around this table: Dany, Jon, Mormont, Davos, Sansa, Tyrion, Brienne, Thormond, Sam, Bran, Theon.... right there are 11 leaders or top advisors discussing strategy. So if you are going to depict them planning & discussing strategy, then why not make it a little smarter?
So everyone else all over Westeros was killed with valyrian steel or obsidian?? Where did they put all the dead from Kings Landing who just simply died from regular steel, or from feats & famine?
Dragons went in still without knowing where the night king was, and they went into the cold fog without knowing where the night king was.
I thought it was epic but super poor lighting.
My big beef is how poor of an ending to NK. I'm fine with Arya killing him, expected that, but there was so many more ways to make it memorable. How about Arya being the one in the wheel chair with Bran's face on. Or Bran having something to do with it instead of sending off the crows for no reason (that we know of) and that's all.
Sam and Gilly are both in scenes for next week, but besides that they showed Sam lying on the ground, ALIVE, after Arya shattered old horn head. I really have to wonder if some of you were on the milk of the poppy while watching.
The Night King had a connection to Bran. Arya putting on Bran's face would not have changed that. And in order to put on Bran's face, Bran would have to be dead, which sorta helps the Night King.
Did Davos finally fight anyone? He wasn't in the crypts and I can't imagine anyone not fighting with what was going on. How did the dead actually get out of the stone tombs in the crypts, and why didn't the people down there immediately start burning or stabbing them with dragon glass?
It was a good episode, though as people have posted a few head scratchers. Less characters actually died than I thought would.
The Dothraki Charge of the Light Brigade certainly didn't make sense, though certainly set the tone.
Jon, though courageous, certainly does not seem to be much of a strategist or tactician.
They did a great job with setting up Arya's arc with all the references.
Also glad I took the time to adjust the "black" settings on my TV, made it easier to watch, though not sure if the rest of the season will be so dark, Kings Landing seems to get a lot more sun.
Surprised more northerners don't winter down south, though I've heard traffic on the Twins can be a real pain.
The Dothraki Charge of the Light Brigade certainly didn't make sense, though certainly set the tone.
Jon, though courageous, certainly does not seem to be much of a strategist or tactician.
They did a great job with setting up Arya's arc with all the references.
Also glad I took the time to adjust the "black" settings on my TV, made it easier to watch, though not sure if the rest of the season will be so dark, Kings Landing seems to get a lot more sun.
Surprised more northerners don't winter down south, though I've heard traffic on the Twins can be a real pain.
If Arya used Bran's face then she would have had to kill Bran. Would she kill her bro'? I don't think they wanted to kill of Bran. I think they want to use him moving forward. If for nothing else, I believe Bran plays a key role in the whole thing about Jon's true lineage.
That being said, there was a split second of thought that ran thru my brain last night when the NK was standing over top of Bran and they were staring at each other, where I thought Bran would reach up, peel off his face and reveal it was Arya. But then Arya pulled her ninja move.
They did nothing with the connection, bran sacrificing himself to allow Arya to do it would have worked.
I liked it being Arya, just feel a few minutes of thought could have been used to make the scene obviously more deserving.
He did raise them and send them back towards the castle, but also to attack John, and dany
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Yeah, Dany certainly walked the walk as it were. Without her, that battle is over in seconds. And I know this is a GoT discussion thread, but let's not ignore years of board etiquette...
It was a huge moment. As was the lighting of the most. Both were quickly outdone by the Army of the Dead. Her reminder to Arya was vital and her death was well timed.
He was kinda out of his element as that was his first time flying the dragon in a battle setting. He was trying to get to the NK, but was foiled twice (fog, wind, snow when we swooped in; raising of their own men as NK wights). Writers put it out there that he had been the hero so much that they didn't want him to detract from Arya.
Also, below quote has some good info.
I think the biggest flaw of everything when it came to the NK and his army: the understanding of how they can die. It should have been discovered when Arya killed the NK. Imagine the added dread on the never ending army AND not knowing how the NK could die.
Additionally, I'd like to have seen the main bads do some fighting. They could have split up and battled some. For as climactic as the deathblow was, a combination of Bran thrown to the ground/Theon attacking/Arya making the fatal blow would have been even better.
Regardless, the opening minutes gave such a feeling of ominous doom that is undeniable. The Dothraki might have died relatively fast, but did we need an extended scene showing them get tore to shreds in an hour plus battle already?
Excellent episode.
I brought this up on the last page but there shouldn't have been that many bodies. The Night King raised the fallen when staring at John Snow. Once Arya stabbed the Night King and he shattered into ice, so should have all of the wights. Season 7, Beyond the Wall they kill a Walker and the wights he raised shattered. The only bodies left should be the living that were killed after the Night King raised the fallen. So it should be massive piles of ice and a few hundred/thousand bodies.
Thanks for clearing that up...other than the
Exactly! It didn’t matter what they did....it was a 12 rd fight-make it till someone kills the Night King.
Further to other aforementioned posts;
The lack of visual acuity was part of the environment..dark, cold thick air, with snow and mountains all around and no moon...so yes it sucked and it was confusing as hell, but it worked out for the most part.
Also, the Dothraki captain is dead which sucks.
Thanks for the clarity on two dragons left.
Maybe Dany isn’t so worried about her throne now, perhaps some perspective?
Arya is a ninja and I do believe Bran knew what was going to happen.
Amazing how they took Theon from a character you despised, to hated, to felt sorry for.
Will be interesting to see how this Bronn mission plays out?
Similar threads
