FC/OT: Game of Thrones S8E3 - ‘The Long Night’ - Discussion Thread...

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Re: #1, this encounter had to be tied up in one episode unless the NK wins at Winterfell and then goes south.

Remember on the journey to secure a wight, the party was surrounded and assuredly dead. Flying out on the back of a dragon saved them. What type of retreat did they have holed up in Winterfell?

This was a one and done. As for intentions, the NK didn't speak. No soliloquies about his hatred for the living. Just pure ambition to kill everything in sight. Throw in the numerous wizard-like abilities and beyond human strength, he was what he was. They could have maneuvered into his death a little better, my gripe.

Re: #2, they didn't seem ready to pull the trigger on some of the majors. Slightly disappointing for a show that killed Ned and Robert rather quickly, but perhaps they feared outlash.

They avoided killing any major females, they kept Jaime and the Hound for King's Landing showdowns, and all the Starks made it unscathed. Not even Grey Work died, and they had numerous occasions to give him a quality death.

It's beginning to look like the good side won't suffer no more than 1-2 deaths in the remaining episodes. The bads will be the ones who fall. (Cersei, The Mountain, Euron)

Agree, but there is still a chance this Stark/Targ resentment bubbling under everything (Sansa, Dany, Jon) could take an unexpected turn. I think the North feels obligated to help Dany win at King's Landing, but like Sansa said, they're not bending the knee anymore to anyone. Dany doesn't seem to be a fan of that posture, and she and Jon have some unresolved family issues. I think that may be where we end up - not at King's Landing (which could be done by Ep. 5).

 

[DingerzForDaze]

Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but, am I correct that there is only one dragon remaining at this point?

I thought the "good" dragons killed the Night King's dragon (though, even if they didn't, he died when the Night King died), and then Jon Snow's dragon was killed by the "undead" jumping on top of him and gobbling him up until he came back down and tried to kill Jon Snow ... and when the Night King was killed, that dragon officially died (again).

 

[palmettolion]

It's beginning to look like the good side won't suffer no more than 1-2 deaths in the remaining episodes. The bads will be the ones who fall. (Cersei, The Mountain, Euron)

While I'd like to believe that, I feel like this show has conditioned me that the good guys don't even truly win when they succeed.

Your more likely to see an important good character fall off a horse and break their neck unspectacularly than you are to see them avenge their wrongs and kill an important bad character in a satisfying fashion. But it is great TV.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but, am I correct that there is only one dragon remaining at this point?

I thought the "good" dragons killed the Night King's dragon (though, even if they didn't, he died when the Night King died), and then Jon Snow's dragon was killed by the "undead" jumping on top of him and gobbling him up until he came back down and tried to kill Jon Snow ... and when the Night King was killed, that dragon officially died (again).

Both dragons are alive. They are injured, but it remains to be seen if they are cleared to play next week.

 

[djr4rebs]

Agree, but there is still a chance this Stark/Targ resentment bubbling under everything (Sansa, Dany, Jon) could take an unexpected turn. I think the North feels obligated to help Dany win at King's Landing, but like Sansa said, they're not bending the knee anymore to anyone. Dany doesn't seem to be a fan of that posture, and she and Jon have some unresolved family issues. I think that may be where we end up - not at King's Landing (which could be done by Ep. 5).

I'm all up for some curve balls, and perhaps playing it safe here causes some relax in the viewership.

 

[Kiber]

Agree, but there is still a chance this Stark/Targ resentment bubbling under everything (Sansa, Dany, Jon) could take an unexpected turn. I think the North feels obligated to help Dany win at King's Landing, but like Sansa said, they're not bending the knee anymore to anyone. Dany doesn't seem to be a fan of that posture, and she and Jon have some unresolved family issues. I think that may be where we end up - not at King's Landing (which could be done by Ep. 5).

I know Sansa has made remarks about 'the North no longer bending the knee for anyone', but after that battle it would be hard for anyone ... including Sansa ... to NOT bend the knee and say Dany is the Queen.

1st - she was willing to sacrifice 2 armies (Dothraki & Unsullied) for land/house that was not even hers (Winterfell). She could easiliy just take her dragons & armies to KL.

2nd - she was willing to sacrifice her 2 dragons. Which are not just just "dragons" but they are her power source. Kind of like current countries having nuclear capabilities.

3rd - While Sansa was down in the crips, she was doing more than anyone other than Arya to win that battle.

Many guys from the north watched Dany fight last night and watched her fight alongside them. I find it hard to believe that when Sansa starts the whole "Lady of the North" schtick, that all those guys from the North who fought with Dany, are not going to side with Dany.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Agree, but there is still a chance this Stark/Targ resentment bubbling under everything (Sansa, Dany, Jon) could take an unexpected turn. I think the North feels obligated to help Dany win at King's Landing, but like Sansa said, they're not bending the knee anymore to anyone. Dany doesn't seem to be a fan of that posture, and she and Jon have some unresolved family issues. I think that may be where we end up - not at King's Landing (which could be done by Ep. 5).

Isn’t it resolved by Jon winding up on the throne? The north is happy to bend the knee to a northerner—Jon.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I know Sansa has made remarks about 'the North no longer bending the knee for anyone', but after that battle it would be hard for anyone ... including Sansa ... to NOT bend the knee and say Dany is the Queen.

1st - she was willing to sacrifice 2 armies (Dothraki & Unsullied) for land/house that was not even hers (Winterfell). She could easiliy just take her dragons & armies to KL.

2nd - she was willing to sacrifice her 2 dragons. Which are not just just "dragons" but they are her power source. Kind of like current countries having nuclear capabilities.

3rd - While Sansa was down in the crips, she was doing more than anyone other than Arya to win that battle.

Many guys from the north watched Dany fight last night and watched her fight alongside them. I find it hard to believe that when Sansa starts the whole "Lady of the North" schtick, that all those guys from the North who fought with Dany, are not going to side with Dany.

+1. I think Sansa is going to drop it. Expect Jon takes the throne anyway. Stark-targ for the win.

 

[91Joe95]

(Said in best Jack Handey voice) Didn't Bran use to be a very good shot with the arrow? How come he didn't keep a dragon glass arrow with him and just blast the night king with it, ala Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, or maybe Harrison Ford as Han Solo shooting Greedo in the original Star Wars?

 

[palmettolion]

I know Sansa has made remarks about 'the North no longer bending the knee for anyone', but after that battle it would be hard for anyone ... including Sansa ... to NOT bend the knee and say Dany is the Queen.

1st - she was willing to sacrifice 2 armies (Dothraki & Unsullied) for land/house that was not even hers (Winterfell). She could easiliy just take her dragons & armies to KL.

2nd - she was willing to sacrifice her 2 dragons. Which are not just just "dragons" but they are her power source. Kind of like current countries having nuclear capabilities.

3rd - While Sansa was down in the crips, she was doing more than anyone other than Arya to win that battle.

Many guys from the north watched Dany fight last night and watched her fight alongside them. I find it hard to believe that when Sansa starts the whole "Lady of the North" schtick, that all those guys from the North who fought with Dany, are not going to side with Dany.

"If it wasn't for Arya, we would all be dead and part of the Night Kings army" -Sansa, probably early in the next episode.

Seriously, I've been the biggest Dany needs to die person on this board. After last night, for many of the reasons you list, not so much.

 

[Still in State College]

3rd - While Sansa was down in the crips, she was doing more than anyone other than Arya to win that battle.

I have to say I love all the talk of the Crips being involved at Winterfell.

 

[dbsteel]

Damn. So the Night King carefully plotted for thousands of years, raised an Army of the dead, demolished the wall, and then basically fumbled on the goal line.
In the gambling world, that's what we call a bad beat.

That's what I say. If one little blade to the gut was all it took to take him out, why not let his minions do all the work! There are a lot of illogical things going on in the show, but this one takes the cake. Any arrow could have taken him out at any time.

I still love the show, but makes no real sense.

 

[udsig91]

Damn. So the Night King carefully plotted for thousands of years, raised an Army of the dead, demolished the wall, and then basically fumbled on the goal line.
In the gambling world, that's what we call a bad beat.

Reminiscent of the last two Penn State v O$U games...have the lead, look to be in total control and then make a bad decision sealing your fate.

 

[PSUcup1]

Reminiscent of the last two Penn State v O$U games...have the lead, look to be in total control and then make a bad decision sealing your fate.

So The Night King was actually James Franklin ...... interesting

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I know Sansa has made remarks about 'the North no longer bending the knee for anyone', but after that battle it would be hard for anyone ... including Sansa ... to NOT bend the knee and say Dany is the Queen.

1st - she was willing to sacrifice 2 armies (Dothraki & Unsullied) for land/house that was not even hers (Winterfell). She could easiliy just take her dragons & armies to KL.

2nd - she was willing to sacrifice her 2 dragons. Which are not just just "dragons" but they are her power source. Kind of like current countries having nuclear capabilities.

3rd - While Sansa was down in the crips, she was doing more than anyone other than Arya to win that battle.

Many guys from the north watched Dany fight last night and watched her fight alongside them. I find it hard to believe that when Sansa starts the whole "Lady of the North" schtick, that all those guys from the North who fought with Dany, are not going to side with Dany.

Isn’t it resolved by Jon winding up on the throne? The north is happy to bend the knee to a northerner—Jon.

+1. I think Sansa is going to drop it. Expect Jon takes the throne anyway. Stark-targ for the win.

I mean, yes, you would think. But, even when everyone is dying above them Sansa's somewhat tender moment with Tyrion is sort of ruined when she says, 'We wouldn't have worked out....because of the Dragon Queen.' So, even with death all around her, Sansa is still thinking about that. Moreover, Arya is in Sansa's camp too (which she not so subtly says to Jon when the reunite).

I guess we'll see. But, I can see something like family loyalty screwing up everything.

 

[NedFromYork]

Both dragons are alive. They are injured, but it remains to be seen if they are cleared to play next week.

Drogon has a wing and Rhaegal has a tail.

 

[ivan brunetti]

That's what I say. If one little blade to the gut was all it took to take him out, why not let his minions do all the work! There are a lot of illogical things going on in the show, but this one takes the cake. Any arrow could have taken him out at any time.

I still love the show, but makes no real sense.

A Valyrian steel dagger took him out. Valyrian steel is the NK's only kryptonite. There are a total of about five Valyrian steel swords left. And you can't just melt it down and dip your arrowheads in it.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

A Valyrian steel dagger took him out. Valyrian steel is the NK's only kryptonite. There are a total of about five Valyrian steel swords left. And you can't just melt it down and dip your arrowheads in it.

I think he's thinking of Dragon Glass, which I guess is effective on wights, but not on White Walkers (?). VS swords in GoT:

Ice - Ned Stark (melted down after his death).
Oathkeeper - Brienne of Tarth (formerly Ice).
Widow's Wail - Jaime Lannister (formerly Ice).
Longclaw - Jon Snow
Heartsbane - House Tarly (assume someone will pick it up from the battlefield where Jorah died).
Catspaw Dagger - Arya Stark.

 

[PSUcup1]

I think he's thinking of Dragon Glass, which I guess is effective on wights, but not on White Walkers (?). VS swords in GoT:

Ice - Ned Stark (melted down after his death).
Oathkeeper - Brienne of Tarth (formerly Ice).
Widow's Wail - Jaime Lannister (formerly Ice).
Longclaw - Jon Snow
Heartsbane - House Tarly (assume someone will pick it up from the battlefield where Jorah died).
Catspaw Dagger - Arya Stark.

Dragon glass does kill white walkers

Remember that’s how Sam killed the WW

 

[NewEra 2014]

Agree, but there is still a chance this Stark/Targ resentment bubbling under everything (Sansa, Dany, Jon) could take an unexpected turn. I think the North feels obligated to help Dany win at King's Landing, but like Sansa said, they're not bending the knee anymore to anyone. Dany doesn't seem to be a fan of that posture, and she and Jon have some unresolved family issues. I think that may be where we end up - not at King's Landing (which could be done by Ep. 5).

My prediction is that Dany will utter the words "burn them all" at some point, just like the Mad King. This will be done in front of Jon and/or Jaime, who will have a big decision on their hands.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Spoiler-ish thoughts on who the Iron Bank may back:

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Dragon glass does kill white walkers

Remember that’s how Sam killed the WW

Okay, so just doesn’t work on the NK? Or would a dragon glass arrow work? I would think fire directly from a dragon would be better than anything to be honest since VS weapons are supposedly forged from dragon’s fire.

 

[dbsteel]

I think he's thinking of Dragon Glass, which I guess is effective on wights, but not on White Walkers (?). VS swords in GoT:

Ice - Ned Stark (melted down after his death).
Oathkeeper - Brienne of Tarth (formerly Ice).
Widow's Wail - Jaime Lannister (formerly Ice).
Longclaw - Jon Snow
Heartsbane - House Tarly (assume someone will pick it up from the battlefield where Jorah died).
Catspaw Dagger - Arya Stark.

Correct- that's what I believed. I missed the point that Dragon Glass was only good on the White Walkers and not the Wights. Guess its a little more plausible that he felt pretty safe then if they needed VS to take him out .

 

[dbsteel]

I mean, yes, you would think. But, even when everyone is dying above them Sansa's somewhat tender moment with Tyrion is sort of ruined when she says, 'We wouldn't have worked out....because of the Dragon Queen.' So, even with death all around her, Sansa is still thinking about that. Moreover, Arya is in Sansa's camp too (which she not so subtly says to Jon when the reunite).

I guess we'll see. But, I can see something like family loyalty screwing up everything.

For some reason I thought they were going to off themselves right then and there when she pulled out that dagger.

 

[Kiber]

Drogon has a wing and Rhaegal has a tail.

This my friend is the post of the day ....... well played !

 

[PSUcup1]

Okay, so just doesn’t work on the NK? Or would a dragon glass arrow work? I would think fire directly from a dragon would be better than anything to be honest since VS weapons are supposedly forged from dragon’s fire.

I’m not sure about the NK.

 

[klive]

Bran and Melisandre seemed to have some kind of knowledge about what was needed to beat the NK. Bran gave Arya the Valyrian steel dagger last season I think, mentioning it was of no use to him (but would be to her). He also mentioned Theon being where he was protecting Bran was important and what was supposed to be. Melisandre's 'throw away' quote to Arya way back in S2 (I think) was way more important than anyone thought. Also notice Melisandre is eyeing up Arya like it's her job when she first gets into Winterfell - I thought it was because Melisandre knew Arya wanted to kill her at one point, but it's really because Melisandre is keeping tabs on her to get her into action at the right moment.

Question: What weapon does Arya give Sansa? At first I thought it was her Valyrian steel dagger, but clearly it wasn't. I don't think it was Needle either.

I think it was a dragon glass dagger.

 

[palmettolion]

Okay, so just doesn’t work on the NK? Or would a dragon glass arrow work? I would think fire directly from a dragon would be better than anything to be honest since VS weapons are supposedly forged from dragon’s fire.

As long as it's dragon glass or Valerian steel it works on any of the dead, Walkers or the Night King. As for the fire, I'd guess because it's not piercing them it's ineffective on the Walkers and the Night King, it obviously works on the dead. If you remember the episode where Bran is in the cave and the Children of the Forest light the fire outside, the undead don't try to cross the fire. The Walkers and Night King walk right through it and the fire almost completely dies as they cross.

They must have so some sort of magic that prevents fire damage, or maybe they are so cold it just has no effect. The Walker that Sam killed first grabbed the sword he swung and it shattered, I'm guessing because the Walker was so cold. Sam got smacked, regained his feet and ran up behind him and stabbed him with dragon glass, then the Walker shattered.

 

[WPB_lion]

I think he's thinking of Dragon Glass, which I guess is effective on wights, but not on White Walkers (?). VS swords in GoT:

Ice - Ned Stark (melted down after his death).
Oathkeeper - Brienne of Tarth (formerly Ice).
Widow's Wail - Jaime Lannister (formerly Ice).
Longclaw - Jon Snow
Heartsbane - House Tarly (assume someone will pick it up from the battlefield where Jorah died).
Catspaw Dagger - Arya Stark.

Samwell took out a White Walker with Dragon Glass.

 

[LafayetteBear]

If there's a long time before Jon/Dany meet Cersei, then Cersei needs to have a miscarriage. The witch told her that she'd have 3 kids, so something happens to this pregnancy.

There are a lot of prophecies surrounding Cersei. The one that you mentioned, about Cersei having three kids who would all wear gold shrouds, is probably a bit more well known. But there is also something called the "Valonquar Prophecy," which says that Cersei will be killed by a "little brother." Since Jaime, although her twin brother, came out second, it could presumably be either Jaime or Tyrion who does the deed. .Or maybe it could be Arya wearing the face of either Jaime or Tyriion if one of those two dies without Cersei getting prompt word of the death. The witch said that Arya would close some green eyes, and Cersei has green eyes. Here is an article about it:

http://time.com/5579484/melisandre-prophesy-arya-cersei-death/

 

[LafayetteBear]

Now they have about 100k dead bodies to deal with. I wonder if they will even address that.

Burn, baby, burn.

 

[LafayetteBear]

So the dead starks all rose like I assumed. I still believe they will find something in lyanna's crypt to prove jon is her kid

Was that dead Starks coming out of the crypts or simply invading wights breaking in from other parts of the castle? That was not at all clear to me.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Once Arya stabbed the Night King and he shattered into ice, so should have all of the wights. Season 7, Beyond the Wall they kill a Walker and the wights he raised shattered.

You sure that wights shattered? I thought they just died, and that only the White Walkers shattered? Could be wrong, though. If so, do you know what episide that was where wights shattered? Would like to go back and watch it again.

 

[Nittany_93]

That's what I say. If one little blade to the gut was all it took to take him out, why not let his minions do all the work! There are a lot of illogical things going on in the show, but this one takes the cake. Any arrow could have taken him out at any time.

BTW just read an article on the provenance of that dagger. Seems like everyone who has owned that dagger has met an untimely demise. Bran may be the only exception however he barely owned it and never really took possession of it. So wouldn't that be a kicker, giving a cursed dagger to your sister that will doom her and save you.

I still love the show, but makes no real sense.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Thanks for spoiling next week. Most didn’t or do not watch next weeks scenes. Sam was Injured perhaps and were others and may die or may have lived but we didn’t know. Stop drinking the milk of the poppy when posting spoilers.

? I'm wondering who DOESN'T watch the previews for the next installment.

 

[palmettolion]

You sure that wights shattered? I thought they just died, and that only the White Walkers shattered? Could be wrong, though. If so, do you know what episide that was where wights shattered? Would like to go back and watch it again.

Season 7 the name of the episode was Beyond the Wall. Almost positive but not 100%. The below was stolen from Got Wiki, whatever that's worth.

Jorah asks the wounded Thoros about his experience charging with a flaming sword during the Siege of Pyke, and commends his old comrade for his drunken bravery. While navigating through the mountain, they see a White Walker leading a column of Wights marching through the canyon below. The ranging party plants a fire and then ambushes them when the White Walker stops to investigate. Jon manages to kill the White Walker with Longclaw, causing most of the Wights associated with it to disintegrate, while the rest of the group manages to capture the only unaffected wight. The creature unexpectedly screeches for help; Sandor slaps his gloved hand over its mouth, but it wrenches its face away when its mouth skin tears off into the glove, to Sandor and Jorah's disgust. As Jorah pulls out a bag from his jacket and secures it over its head, Sandor and Tormund bind the creature with a coil of rope. In the middle of this, they realize their captive's howls have drawn the attention of a massive host of wights now heading their way, hastening their work.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Additionally, if you're HBO and you spent the amount of money, time, and capital on making an episode like that, you would probably love to have it during the day time out in the open. But, I think it served the show best by being presented the way it was. I felt like Brienne sitting there helpless with no idea what was two feet in front of me - really added to the intensity!

Rewatch the first thirty minutes, and the sense of dread and foreboding that the nighttime setting helps create is fantastic. That scene depicting the moment when the dead army washed over the front lines of the Winterfell army was incredible. It litterally was a wave of the Dead.

 

[Kiber]

There are a lot of prophecies surrounding Cersei. The one that you mentioned, about Cersei having three kids who would all wear gold shrouds, is probably a bit more well known. But there is also something called the "Valonquar Prophecy," which says that Cersei will be killed by a "little brother." Since Jaime, although her twin brother, came out second, it could presumably be either Jaime or Tyrion who does the deed. .Or maybe it could be Arya wearing the face of either Jaime or Tyriion if one of those two dies without Cersei getting prompt word of the death. The witch said that Arya would close some green eyes, and Cersei has green eyes. Here is an article about it:

http://time.com/5579484/melisandre-prophesy-arya-cersei-death/

Serious question because it seems like some of you read the books and detailed explanations are in the books.....

Question about this ability Arya has of wearing a face .... > "If she wears a face of a person, does she also inherit that person body or physical characteristics" ???

For example, in this post LafayetteBear posted that Arya could wear the face of either Jaime or Tyrion in order to get close enough to Cersei to kill her. But obviously the bodies do not match. If Arya was wearing Tyrion's face, then Cersei would instantly see that "Tyrion" is now about 2 feet taller. And if Arya was wearing Jaime's face, then Cersei would instantly see that "Jaime" is now about 2 feet shorter.

So in all seriousness, when Arya "takes" a face, does she some how magically inherit that faces body ??

 

[LafayetteBear]

She gets the entire body, which is what happened, for example, when she offed Walker Frey and his clansmen. In that sense, wearing someone’s “face” is a bit misleading, because it is more than just a face.

 

[Roar More]

Regarding the Dothraki charge... that's what they do. It may not have been part of the plan, but when they all got flaming swords, they couldn't help themselves. They are not a terribly disciplined lot.

My belief is the NK had to personally off Bran like he did the previous three eyed raven. I wish the NK motives would have been explained and still hope that will happen.

The good guys are going to need time for themselves and their dragons to heal. I think there are still alliances to form. There are still a lot of people left in the far south.

I find this map helpful in following the action: http://quartermaester.info/

The map puts the Umbers about six hundred miles from Winterfell, so the dead made great time. Helps if you don't need to stop for any reason.

Sam and Jon are the last of the Night's Watch. There is no need for the NW or the wall any longer.