FC/SIAP: Former OAG Prosecutors testified about V2, grand jury leaks today (link)

[Royal_Coaster]

Your argument rests on that CSS were mandated reporters and statute of limitations did not run out and were told that sexual abuse occurred. Both are unlikely to hold any water as evidenced in recent filings and problems with MM's evolving testimony. Most likely charges will be tossed by judge or dropped by AG office.

Assuming they are deemed mandated reporters and jury buys what MM is peddling, another he said, she said. CYS will not be able to prove they didn't report it. Onus still on prosecution to prove that no one did report it. Schultz doesn't have to prove he did. Good luck with that. By the way, AG may have exonerated Curley and perhaps Spanier by saying Schultz was police. Thus, it was reported to police.

Aren't the failure to report charges based on something to the effect that although they weren't mandated reporters in 2001, the law changed to include them sometime around 06-07; therefore, they were required to report the 2001 incident 5-6 years later?

 

[simons96]

Aren't the failure to report charges based on something to the effect that although they weren't mandated reporters in 2001, the law changed to include them sometime around 06-07; therefore, they were required to report the 2001 incident 5-6 years later?

yes.

 

[L.T. Young]

The repressed memory therapy is an active issue in Sandusky's PCRA. To the best of my knowledge Judge Cleland has not ruled on the request for in-camera review of therapist notes for the acccusers that underwent repressed memory therapy. Michael Gillum is clearly a proponent and the Sandusky filing names v1, v3, v4, v6, and v7 as having received it. "Based on the changing testimony of the accusers, the statements of the accusers before and after trial, and the fact that the accusers have attributed their changes in story and/or coming forward to therapy, there is strong evidence that repressed memories were at issue at trial." I hope that Judge Clleland rules in the Defense's favor.

The filing also states "Matt Sandusky attributed therapy to his coming forward."

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY BRIEF IN CAMERA REVIEW OF THERAPY NOTES.pdf

Believe what you want to believe. I personally don't think that Jeff Pearlman is a very good source to use. I believe that his opinions are biased and are not fact-based. His opinion that Matt is telling the truth because his wife told him to take the money from Penn State and that actual victims often change their stories is very shallow IMO.

I personally believe that Matt Sandusky is the classic case of the charlatan that Ken Laning refers to who opportunistically become part of a CSA story. I say that for the following reasons:

1. Matt Sandusky testified before the Grand Jury that he was never molested by JS

2. Matt Sandusky asked at age 18 to be adopted by the Sandusky family, years after he claims he has been repeatedly molested by JS

3. After JS was arrested, Matt Sandusky went to court against his ex-wife to allow JS access to his minor children

4. His adoptive mother, and all the other 5 Sandusky siblings all believe that Matt was never molested by JS

5. Matt Sandusky claimed that assistant coach Kevin O'Dea wtinessed his abuse in 1988, only problem is that O'Dea didn't come to Penn State until 1990

6. Matt Sandusky claims that his suicide attempt was as a result of the absue he received from JS when in fact it was a joint suicide attempt with his girlfriend at the time because his parents would allow them to live together at the Sandusky house

7. Matt Sandusky's claims that the abuse stopped when he was 15, when he transitioned to v4. Only problem there is an almost 4 year gap from when he turned 15 and when the alleged abuse of v4 started in the Fall of 1997. Eileen Morgan who believes that JS is a pedophile explained the math in the following link:

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...,1374106/?_ga=1.93089695.388951079.1463682164

If Sandusky is fortunate enough to win a new trial, I suspect that the State will not want use Matt Sandusky as a witness because of all of the impeachment information that could be brought in.

Pearlman, for the most part, wrote a well sourced article. I do agree basing his belief Matt's being honest shouldn't come from what Matt's wife said.

Even if he did his due diligence to make sure they didn't have money problems it's just part of an argument she's making. It doesn't mean a ton.


As far as repressed memory therapy, it's been debunked. Pearlman put that in the article too.

Repressed memory therapy is something coming from the defense:

"Based on the changing testimony of the accusers, the statements of the accusers before and after trial, and the fact that the accusers have attributed their changes in story and/or coming forward to therapy, there is strong evidence thatrepressed memories were at issue at trial."

At this point it's a legal argument not fact that RMT played a major role in this. JZ makes it seem like an established fact.

As far Matt Sandusky's honesty, I don't know what to think. A lot of what you listed are things an abuse victim in denial would do. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. It's also really suspect how he flipped so quickly from one extreme to the other. I have doubts to say the least.

 

[interrobang]

If we are playing this game then what happens if Schultz says he did or to the best of recollection it was. And CYS says we can't say if it was reported or not reported. And the defense starts going into all the problems with CYS reporting. Game over.

Auditor General DePasquale Says Children’s Lives Being Put at Risk Because Nearly 42,000 Calls to Child Abuse Hotline Unanswered

Nearly one-third of all calls received in 2014 and 2015 were not tracked or documented, and

• Supervisors monitored an extremely small number of calls — only 7, or 0.005 percent — in 2015.

And it's the stupid post-Sandusky laws that were rashly enacted that have contributed to this. People are worried about losing their jobs if they don't report anything and everything

 

[Legion of Lions]

Sorry legion but I don't think that the BOT conspired with Corbett, other state officials, Freeh, and the media any more than Joe conspired with C/S/S, assistant coaches, and players.

I believe that MM gave a watered down account and the administrators underestimated the severity of JS's actions. I believe that the BOT panicked and overreacted by firing Joe, Spanier, etc. I think their overreaction was partially to cover their own rear ends (they should have known too and many were involved with TSM). I think others cooperated because of personal vendettas (Surma's nephew, Corbett vs. Spanier, people thinking Joe had become too powerful).

I think it was a "perfect storm", but I don't believe in all of these conspiracies.

I know that the "Tin Hat Conspiracy" concept is one that some pretty smart folks here want to dismiss....let me just state one thing...sometime the obvious is the right answer. With the "Sandusky Scandal" - that is the truth.

You can not have the components of this "Scandal" be created naturally - the parts needed to get the public to believe all of this need to be "machined" by someone to get them to fit!

The reason why this is so hard to believe is because AFTER 5 YEARS we have no truly verifiable facts on which to make a judgement. This is by design. Everything we know about anything involving Sandusky is subject to a "lens" that the State of PA has publicly provided. All testimony, all records, all information of any type has been filtered by a legal system that applies different standards based upon WHO benefits from access to that information. The legal system ITSELF has been bent to promoting a "Story" which Harrisburg created at its highly flawed and illegal Grand Jury presentment.

This conspiracy is NOT one with every participant in a room taking a designated piece of a story that was professionally engineered to destroy PSU sports, Paterno and C/S/S. It is a conspiracy of convenience where the parties involved are "told" of benefits they can obtain (YES $$$ Benefits) if they take this "Story" line and run with it! It is the new America where a small number of "Elites" can do immense damage and do it OUTSIDE THE LAW...because the LAW is owned by the ELITES.

Review all the components of the past 5 years - "it don't fit" unless someone orchestrates how each essential part works to promote it. To believe that this is just a perfect storm (Sorry JZ) is just childish.

I can only tell you.... I have highly credible professional information that backs this all up. That is why I am SURE we have had (and continue to have) numerous crimes being committed to promote a LEGALLY suspect case against Sandusky - and an ABSURD "Backfilled Football Criminality Story".

The resulting "Public Reality" is built from a string of manipulated partial truth, lies and misstatements by "officially mandated sources". This effectively transfers all responsibilities for the (now) 40 years of Sandusky Crimes" exclusively to PSU. Remember that this story has been based on legally suspicious NONEVENTS which have been protected by the very people who benefit from the "cover" that this absurd story provides.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHICH MOTIVE YOU BELIEVE!

Motive - for the Penn State "Story" version....providing an exemplary coach of 61 years a means to hide a "Criminal Football Culture" - OR -
the "Highly Probable" PA Government motive - protecting criminal politicians and the $$$$$Millions$$$ of graft and corruption they have stolen from the real "victims" here - all the residence of the State of PA.

 

[Langmuir]

And it's the stupid post-Sandusky laws that were rashly enacted that have contributed to this. People are worried about losing their jobs if they don't report anything and everything

Some of the stupidest post Sandusky laws is all the background checks that are now required. I now I have to get a background check (PA and FBI) to go on a school field trip with my children. My 16 year old daughter has to get a background check to work as a junior camp counselor at a summer day camp. There is now a cottage industry of doing background checks in PA. Somebody is making a lot of money and children are no safer. If somebody could show me one example where a child was abused on a school field trip and a background check would have prevented it, I would be all for it. I can't find any such examples.

How many background checks did Sandusky have to go through? Did these background checks prevent anything?

 

[Zenophile]

Lar, I think we should all be concerned that Jerry was pulling kids out of class with no parental consent. CMHS, TSM and CYS should all be held accountable, but somehow the players there got promotions (ie, Turchetta to Principal) whereas PSU was left to burn.

Nobody ever wants to talk about Aaron Fisher telling Turchetta that he was being abused by Jerry Sandusky and Turchetta telling Fisher to STFU. Guess that's deserving of a promotion? Maybe this is where Roxine should be focusing her attention.

Amen, Chi. This list definitely includes @Roxine and Jennifer Storm, but there are others who ignored that line of questioning. To my thinking among them are:
- Frank Fina
- Joe McGettigan
- Jonelle Eschbach
- Tom Corbett
- Sara Ganim

The above list is "off the top of my head", so please feel free to add to it.

 

[Misder2]

Amen, Chi. This definitely list includes @Roxine and Jennifer Storm, but there are others who ignored that line of questioning. To my thinking among them are:
- Frank Fina
- Joe McGettigan
- Jonelle Eschbach
- Tom Corbett
- Sara Ganim

The above list is "off the top of my head", so please feel free to add to it.

NOONAN

 

[simons96]

Amen, Chi. This definitely list includes @Roxine and Jennifer Storm, but there are others who ignored that line of questioning. To my thinking among them are:
- Frank Fina
- Joe McGettigan
- Jonelle Eschbach
- Tom Corbett
- Sara Ganim

The above list is "off the top of my head", so please feel free to add to it.

you know, early on in this scandal, when Joe was still alive, a co worker was upset about this scandal and about how angry she was about Joe Paterno "allowing this to happen"

and she pulled the "what if it were your kid in the shower" BS

and even back then I said . . . wait a second, I dropped my kid off with someone who then allowed Sandusky to have one on one access to them. Someone else saw something he thought was wrong, and instead of going to the police, went to Joe. who reported what he was told secondhand to the university admins, per law.

so my response was, if that were my kid . . . I'd be on Second Mile's doorstep the next day with one hand around Jack Raykovitz's throat demanding answers. why the f**k would I be mad at Paterno??

 

[GTACSA]

you know, early on in this scandal, when Joe was still alive, a co worker was upset about this scandal and about how angry she was about Joe Paterno "allowing this to happen"

and she pulled the "what if it were your kid in the shower" BS

and even back then I said . . . wait a second, I dropped my kid off with someone who then allowed Sandusky to have one on one access to them. Someone else saw something he thought was wrong, and instead of going to the police, went to Joe. who reported what he was told secondhand to the university admins, per law.

so my response was, if that were my kid . . . I'd be on Second Mile's doorstep the next day with one hand around Jack Raykovitz's throat demanding answers. why the f**k would I be mad at Paterno??

Your position assumes you knew about what happened. It's 10 years later and now you find out your kid was assaulted. Do you still give the PSU people a pass?

 

[MoonOverMyHammy]

so my response was, if that were my kid . . . I'd be on Second Mile's doorstep the next day with one hand around Jack Raykovitz's throat demanding answers

Why would you demand answers from someone who wasn't there instead of the abuser (or alleged abuser) himself?!

 

[simons96]

Why would you demand answers from someone who wasn't there instead of the abuser (or alleged abuser) himself?!

lol well played.

obviously I'd be pissed at the abuser. I think that is presumed, n'est-ce pas?

I would also be pissed at the person who gave my kid to the abuser

why would I be pissed at a secondhand witness who reported it?

 

[PSU2UNC]

Your position assumes you knew about what happened. It's 10 years later and now you find out your kid was assaulted. Do you still give the PSU people a pass?

In that they (C/S/S/JVP) didn't do anything wrong, I'm not sure what I could find fault with, unless I allow emotions to get the better of me and just want to blame everyone, irrespective of their culpability.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Maybe that's why pretty much none of the survivors who testified at trial, nor their families, have directed any blame at Joe Paterno. Heck, some of them wore PSU football jerseys and took friendly pictures with Jay Paterno.

 

[GTACSA]

In that they (C/S/S/JVP) didn't do anything wrong, I'm not sure what I could find fault with, unless I allow emotions to get the better of me and just want to blame everyone, irrespective of their culpability.

Well if they had reported the hypothetical incident with Simon's kid to the police then perhaps the child could have received counseling to help with the trauma he had experienced instead of living with the hell it would have created.

That has nothing to do with emotions and a blame game don't you think?

 

[MoonOverMyHammy]

Heck, some of them wore PSU football jerseys and took friendly pictures with Jay Paterno.

Which didn't stop all of them from suing Penn State

 

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

Some of the stupidest post Sandusky laws is all the background checks that are now required. I now I have to get a background check (PA and FBI) to go on a school field trip with my children. My 16 year old daughter has to get a background check to work as a junior camp counselor at a summer day camp. There is now a cottage industry of doing background checks in PA. Somebody is making a lot of money and children are no safer. If somebody could show me one example where a child was abused on a school field trip and a background check would have prevented it, I would be all for it. I can't find any such examples.

How many background checks did Sandusky have to go through? Did these background checks prevent anything?

Sandusky must have been thoroughly screened at least 6 times, given 6 adopted kids...(cough cough)

 

[Royal_Coaster]

Well if they had reported the hypothetical incident with Simon's kid to the police then perhaps the child could have received counseling to help with the trauma he had experienced instead of living with the hell it would have created.

That has nothing to do with emotions and a blame game don't you think?

Gasbag
Trolling
About
Child
Sexual
Abuse

 

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

Gasbag
Trolling
About
Child
Sexual
Abuse

Damn you, I almost spit water on the keyboard...

 

[PSU2UNC]

Well if they had reported the hypothetical incident with Simon's kid to the police then perhaps the child could have received counseling to help with the trauma he had experienced instead of living with the hell it would have created.

That has nothing to do with emotions and a blame game don't you think?

If you had a second hand report of something vague, but not criminal, why would you report that to the police?

Had MM told me what he told Joe, I would have said "If you feel like you witnessed a crime, call the police immediately. If you feel like you did not witness a crime, but saw something inappropriate, I'd encourage you to talk with our administrators to figure out how best to deal with it."

Huh. That's odd. That seems like exactly what happened.

 

[GTACSA]

If you had a second hand report of something vague, but not criminal, why would you report that to the police?

Had MM told me what he told Joe, I would have said "If you feel like you witnessed a crime, call the police immediately. If you feel like you did not witness a crime, but saw something inappropriate, I'd encourage you to talk with our administrators to figure out how best to deal with it."

Huh. That's odd. That seems like exactly what happened.

I'm sure that is your belief, however that wasn't what I addressed. The result of not reporting the hypothetical assault of Simon's child may have precluded counseling for the child if the contact was not reported to the father. That position has nothing to do with emotions and blame games.

 

[colt21]

Some of the stupidest post Sandusky laws is all the background checks that are now required. I now I have to get a background check (PA and FBI) to go on a school field trip with my children. My 16 year old daughter has to get a background check to work as a junior camp counselor at a summer day camp. There is now a cottage industry of doing background checks in PA. Somebody is making a lot of money and children are no safer. If somebody could show me one example where a child was abused on a school field trip and a background check would have prevented it, I would be all for it. I can't find any such examples.

How many background checks did Sandusky have to go through? Did these background checks prevent anything?

Very valid point and here's one more....

no background check would have stopped JS because he would have PASSED every single one of them

 

[francofan]

At this point it's a legal argument not fact that RMT played a major role in this..

The Sandusky legal team filed a brief today in support of their request for in camera review of Michael Gillum's notes for his therapy sessions with Aaron Fisher and with the therapist identified by v4 in his interview included as an addedndum to a PCRA appendix.

The conclusion of the brief states:

"Mr. Sandusky has provided both trial evidence and post-trial evidence, including statements for the OAG itself, that confirm that recovered memories/repressed memories were at issue. Numerous accusers testified regarding therapy enabling them to recall abuse. Matt Sandusky attributed therapy to his coming forward and v7, in a post-trial interview, confirmed that it was therapy that enabled him to remember allegations of sexual abuse. The accusers delayed in coming forward and each changed their story, frequently attributing the change to therapy enabling them to better remember the events. The prosecution itself has testified that one reason for disbelieving an accuser was the change of his story and because of the actions of the attorney who represented him. That accuser, AM, was represented by Attorney Andrew Shubin. Mr. Shubin also represented v7, v3, and Matt Sandusky: three individuals whom evidence shows that recovered memory and repressed memory therapy were in play. Indeed, these individuals may have been directed to therapy by Mr. Shubin to therapists."

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY BRIEF FILED ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT.pdf

 

[simons96]

The Sandusky legal team filed a brief today in support of their request for in camera review of Michael Gillum's notes for his therapy sessions with Aaron Fisher and with the therapist identified by v4 in his interview included as an addedndum to a PCRA appendix.

Thw conclusion of the brief states:

"Mr. Sandusky has provided both trial evidence and post-trial evidence, including statements for the OAG itself, that confirm that recovered memories/repressed memories were at issue. Numerous accusers testified regarding therapy enabling them to recall abuse. Matt Sandusky attributed therapy to his coming forward and v7, in a post-trial interview, confirmed that it was therapy that enabled him to remember allegations of sexual abuse. The accusers delayed in coming forward and each changed their story, frequently attributing the change to therapy enabling them to better remember the events. The prosecution itself has testified that one reason for disbelieving an accuser was the change of his story and because of the actions of the attorney who represented him. That accuser, AM, was represented by Attorney Andrew Shubin. Mr. Shubin also represented v7, v3, and Matt Sandusky: three individuals whom evidence shows that recovered memory and repressed memory therapy were in play. Indeed, these individuals may have been directed to therapy by Mr. Shubin to therapists."

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY BRIEF FILED ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT.pdf

you know, I'm gonna go ahead and say, I don't believe Shubin seized this opportunity of his own volition, nor accepted these victims as clients because he could see easily the $$$ down the road.

I wonder who tipped him off, who he knew, who's nephew he knows . . . I felt there was collusion and coaching from someone either on the BoT or associated with them who pre-selected Shubin and gave him his playbook . . .

 

[L.T. Young]

The Sandusky legal team filed a brief today in support of their request for in camera review of Michael Gillum's notes for his therapy sessions with Aaron Fisher and with the therapist identified by v4 in his interview included as an addedndum to a PCRA appendix.

The conclusion of the brief states:

"Mr. Sandusky has provided both trial evidence and post-trial evidence, including statements for the OAG itself, that confirm that recovered memories/repressed memories were at issue. Numerous accusers testified regarding therapy enabling them to recall abuse. Matt Sandusky attributed therapy to his coming forward and v7, in a post-trial interview, confirmed that it was therapy that enabled him to remember allegations of sexual abuse. The accusers delayed in coming forward and each changed their story, frequently attributing the change to therapy enabling them to better remember the events. The prosecution itself has testified that one reason for disbelieving an accuser was the change of his story and because of the actionys of the attorney who represented him. That accuser, AM, was represented by Attorney Andrew Shubin. Mr. Shubin also represented v7, v3, and Matt Sandusky: three individuals whom evidence shows that recovered memory and repressed memory therapy were in play. Indeed, these individuals may have been directed to therapy by Mr. Shubin to therapists."

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY BRIEF FILED ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT.pdf

We'll see, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

It's still just an argument until they have proof he employed RMT techniques.

 

[BobPSU92]

Gasbag
Trolling
About
Child
Sexual
Abuse

Very well done.