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FC: So now, the Pac 12 players demand a 50/50 split in revenue.
- Thread starter BUFFALO LION
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Yes, PSU could de-emphasize football, but it makes so much money it would be a dumb decision. And while PSU is not a profit making enterprise, that money could be put to good uses. Shouldn't be too hard to come up with a list of better uses than a tennis team.
As for "mingling" AD and "educational" funds, that isn't a particularly difficult issue to address and control. Both ND and Bama do it. Rutgers does it with a vengeance, though I don't recommend them as a model.
@Art Here's a simple crack at justifying a sport that's in the red, at least on paper using 2019 data.
Wrestling:
Revenues of $2,055,458 *
Expenses of $2,765,931
Deficit of $ 710,473
Number of wrestlers on team: 38
Number of Scholarships used: 9.79
Number of wrestlers without scholarship money: 28.21
Revenue to Penn State using $30,000 per student, which is probably low, means an additional revenue to the University of $846,300.
Guesstimate of the number of wrestlers that joined the team, later quit the team and remain students at the University. 8, or an additional $240,000 of "revenue".
* All broadcasting revenues are assigned to football and basketball. Wrestling is shown quite often on the BTN, ESPN, FLO, etc. Non of the revenue is assigned to wrestling.
Other sources, a bit more of a stretch are easy find.
Attached is the report with the data. I used
page 29 revenue for broadcasting
page 41 total revenue by sport
page 71 total expenses by sport
page 80 number of scholarships used by sport
https://gopsusports.com/documents/2020/2/21//2018_19_NCAA_Report_Final.pdf?id=11644
Wrestling:
Revenues of $2,055,458 *
Expenses of $2,765,931
Deficit of $ 710,473
Number of wrestlers on team: 38
Number of Scholarships used: 9.79
Number of wrestlers without scholarship money: 28.21
Revenue to Penn State using $30,000 per student, which is probably low, means an additional revenue to the University of $846,300.
Guesstimate of the number of wrestlers that joined the team, later quit the team and remain students at the University. 8, or an additional $240,000 of "revenue".
* All broadcasting revenues are assigned to football and basketball. Wrestling is shown quite often on the BTN, ESPN, FLO, etc. Non of the revenue is assigned to wrestling.
Other sources, a bit more of a stretch are easy find.
Attached is the report with the data. I used
page 29 revenue for broadcasting
page 41 total revenue by sport
page 71 total expenses by sport
page 80 number of scholarships used by sport
https://gopsusports.com/documents/2020/2/21//2018_19_NCAA_Report_Final.pdf?id=11644
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Doesn’t matter....D-1 will still be the top talent level and will still fill stadiums. And it’s not like suddenly the talent level will drop to D-2 or D-3 levels....something like 98% of the college players don’t make it to the NFL anyway so they would still be playing D-1...so most of the players would still be playing just for a scholarship and nothing more and the quality of play would not drop that much.
You're getting there. Wrestling can probably make a more compelling case than most of the other money losers.
Revenue from wrestlers without scholarship money is a specious argument. PSU could easily fill those spaces with non- wrestlers.
Have you seen me argue for an elimination of football?
Record applications is only a benefit if a school's admissions department is a profit center i.e. the application fee exceeds the cost to process and review the application. At a dipwad school like Clemson, there might be a benefit. I've told this story before, so bear with me if you've heard it. When my eldest was applying to college we attended a presentation by the Dean of Admissions of Northwestern. He mentioned that in the year after Northwestern made the Rose Bowl they, too, had a record number of applications. Afterward I asked him if the quality of applicants had improved. He smirked and rolled his eyes.
NFL has a free talent development system in place . I doubt they would want to fund another start up league . If the colleges collectively stick together , what choice does a player have ? Power 5 schools would have a monopsony . There would be only one buyer in the market for their talent , and the buyer sets the terms .
Because the Athletic Department and its money are Penn State. PSU decides how best to spend the money. That it makes lousy decisions shouldn't come as a surprise.
As for "mixing" or "mingling" funds, I have no idea what you're getting at. If you believe that there is some sort of corporate veil between the University and the Athletic Department, there isn't.
With all the horror stories of student debt I would surmise that the student athletes do receive compensation.
Not all football players bring the same talents to the table so in a "free market" some of them are of little value.
The player chooses where he plays if the value of the education there is the transfer portal
Not all football players bring the same talents to the table so in a "free market" some of them are of little value.
The player chooses where he plays if the value of the education there is the transfer portal
The problem is when that becomes bidirectional, e.g. using student fees to pay for athletics (which other schools have definitely done).
And if the Athletic Department craps the bed financially, what do you think happens? Say it does a major facility project that's supposed to be paid for through a combination of donations and ticket revenue that never materialize? Where does the money come fro? Don't know the answer? Ask Sandy Barbour and the Regents of the University of California.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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I meant most of the kids who aspire to be in the NFL. They only care about class because it’s mandatory. If they cared about college, they wouldn’t leave after three years.
I have an idea. Lets roll things back to the 70's when you had to have the grades to get into college, had a major and academics were somewhat important. This would eliminate many of those asking for revenue sharing because they wouldn't qualify for college or maintain the needed grades once in college. See how things work, you give a little, dummy down admission standards to make it "fair" or "equal" and then overlook the academic standards that are needed to maintain eligibility all in the name of winning. Then those same students who are truly not qualified academically but are still on the team complain that they should be getting a bigger piece of the pie. CRAZY. Then you have our players going to parties, acting like they are to cool for school, and going against everything that is deemed responsible for not gaining or conveying the virus and soon college football is shut down, placing the blame on you know who. CRAZY.
That was the arrangement as I understood it. Don't know how it shook out. Where is Barry Fenchak when you need him?
Are you saying that in the 70s athletes had to go through an admissions process similar to non-athletes? Ever hear of the 1.6 Rule? In 1965, the NCAA instituted a rule that in order to receive an athletic scholarship an athlete had to have a combination of grades and test scores that predicted a 1.6 GPA as a college freshman. How was that determined? Up to the schools.
By 1972, the 1.6 Rule was gone and all an athlete needed was a high school diploma. That remained until 1986.
LOL. They would be nowhere near as talented as the players PSU has on scholarship. Not even close.
They are still receiving their "athletic opportunities" through the University. To circumvent Title IX, none of the players incomes could come through the University. If they did, and football was excluded from the Title IX equation, any illusion of non-profit status and federal support would disappear faster than your head could spin.
Financial windfall to whom? Regardless, if universities believe it is no longer in their best interest to sponsor football below the NFL level, someone else will.
I get that universities get a boatload of $$$ of the backs of student athletes however I don’t think those on full scholarship should be paid.
They get room, board, over the top food at filling station when on campus, snacks, solid food when traveling, get to travel at no expense to them, extra academic support, lots of cool attire, at least one stipend payment (maybe more). Not sure what else they really require.
They get room, board, over the top food at filling station when on campus, snacks, solid food when traveling, get to travel at no expense to them, extra academic support, lots of cool attire, at least one stipend payment (maybe more). Not sure what else they really require.
The NFL Player contract is basically an individual contract. Yes, the Player's Union wants 48%. Which is what the League's salary cap is based upon. That's where the team's get their ~ $120 million salary cap. But then within the cap, teams/players negotiate the individual contracts. Patrick Mahomes will be getting $30-35 million of that $120 million of the Chiefs cap. Which means the other 52 players are down to dividing out approx $90 mil. ..... So is this the model the college guys want?? Think about it. A D1 school will have a salary cap. When they are recruiting a 5* QB out of HS, they might be willing to offer a 5* QB a much greater share of that cap than say a 3* OG, or a 4* Corner...... Is this really what they want??
Art believes we should drop all of our sports programs except football, basketball, and hockey. Then pull the scholarships from the players, and pay them...
My response: "good luck with that!"
I've actually heard the "pro" model floated before. My take is ... "be careful what you wish for". I could see this opening a whole other can of worms. At first the schools will say we are paying players and it will be a set amount. Let's use 20,000/year just for the sake of conversation. So in 2022, D1 programs can openly pay all players $20,000/ year (again that's just an arbitrary number).
..... How long before the "star" player realizes that it's not "fair" for them to be making the same as the 4th string OG or the Punter. And the "star" player demands they get $50,000/year instead. ??? For example, what if before the season Micah Parsons said that he was "holding out" and not playing because he should be getting more than $20,000 like Saleem Worley is getting?? What if Trevor Lawrence at Clemson threatens to hold out because he says if the 3rd string DE is getting $20,000 then he should get $100,000.... So to make room for Micah Parsons $50K does Penn State cut 3 guys making $20K?? To make room for Trevor Lawrence at $100k, does Clemson cut 5 guys at $20K?? How soon before individual HS players begin to sign agents?
A couple of pretty far leaps there.
Well, those are the "leaps" certain legal groups have decided to make if needed in anticipation of schools trying to use the "employee route" to circumvent the law. If you don't think there will be a legal challenge ( or challenges) to the "employee route" from women's groups wanting their piece of the pie, I have some nice green land on the moon to sell you.
Excluding football (and possibly men's basketball) from the Title IX equation could mean the loss of up to 98 female scholarships.
well that horse left the barn many years ago
100,000 seat stadiums, corporate sponsorship, luxury boxes for high rollers, mega million coaches salaries - lots of cheddar for everyone involved
so let's not pretend it's about some high minded principle that it's "college" football
You can absolutely still have 100,000 seat stadiums and still have 'college' football, but I agree that
I would ditch the luxury boxes and the corporate sponsorships.
that would be more honest, but the NFL has never wanted to fund a minor league when they get that for free
I've actually heard this theory before. Other sports such as baseball & hockey have minor league systems. Farm systems. What if D1 football basically became the "farm system" of the NFL? No pretending. No scholarships. A guy could ;play football for Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson ... and not even attend classes. They are just at a D1 football program to be in the "minor leagues". If a guy "wants to" attend classes, then that's on him and he can negotiate the costs of tuition into his salary. If a guy does not want to attend classes, then fine, he can just "use" a D1 program as his 'minor league' system for 2-3 years before going into the NFL Draft. Make the minor league contracts standardized. Or a simple 2-level minor league D1 football contract. One level contract, say for $40k/year with no tuition. And another level contract for say $10k/year with tuition included.
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